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Do you have the qualifications to be an Unbiased Gamer?

Son of Godzilla said:
How the flying fuck do you have such a high score in Lumines Live?
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Love Lumines Live, and the skins always keep me coming back for more. Have Lumines 2 as well now so being able to play it on the go will be nice since I don't get in too much Live action at home. Totally forgot you were on my Friends List, damn different XBL names.
 
AstroLad said:
Much of the utility and entertainment of GAF derives from reading opinions about various games and systems; I even enjoy the market analysis. Broadly speaking, these views seem to fall into two categories: (i) objective observations based on both historical and contemporary gaming experience, and (ii) partisan bullshit. The former falling into the "utility" category, and the latter into the "entertainment" category. For most astute GAF readers, the two are usually easy to separate: if you see a comment about how the PSP is just "PSX portable" or "the same old shit, just watered down," or a comment on how PC gaming is "dead" or "for nerds"--or anything along those lines--chances are you're reading something from category two.

But where does this baseless hostility and defensiveness come from? Again, the answer should be pretty clear (but sadly this point is lost on many people here): failure to own all current gaming platforms. Would you trust a restaurant critic who only went to McDonald's a What-a-Burger, but not Burger King and Wendy's? Of course not. The fact that many people perceive their platform choices as "investments" only exacerbates the problem.

Before a few of the "usual suspects" go nuts, I should be clear on the concept of "necessary but not sufficient." Owning all major platorms is required for someone to even try to claim that they are unbiased, but it is not necessarily enough. I should also be clear that "all platforms" includes a rig for modern-day PC gaming as well as 360, PS3, Wii, PSP, and DS. The highly popular "PC gaming is dead" set of memes among console-exclusive owners should be more than enough evidence of the need for this qualification.

As a final note, I should address those who might claim objectivity in spite of being deficient in some area: we've heard all the excuses before. How often do people justify trolling the PS3 by saying they were "huge" fans of the original PS? People will make up all sorts of excuses: "360's library sucks, but I'm not trolling--I use MS Office at work every day!," "I do my taxes on a PC at the library, I'm well qualified to discuss the current state of PC gaming!," etc. That doesn't justify the thoughtless comments, nor does it obscure the motivations for those comments, it just makes everything that much clearer.

Heck, before I got it last week it was bugging me for the longest time that I didn't have a PSP. Of course, I was wise enough to recognize the problem this created and did not often comment substantively on the PSP (or much on the state of portable gaming in general). Now that I've got it, it not only obviously improves my views on the system, but on portable gaming and even gaming in general. The reasons for this are obvious.

So in a way, we all have to have that "man in the mirror" moment.
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No no no, you have to own every game for every system ever made and play them all, all the way through, with an equally critical eye. right?

by the way, I missed any real terms for being unbiased other than "must own all the systems." You just say that's a term, but that it's not good enough, then go on to attack people who you view as biased....?

Are you just patting yourself on the back for owning all systems, or what?


Aren't you supposed to be a lawyer? Aren't lawyers supposed to be good at laying out terms for various conditions to be met? :lol
 
I don't have a "modern PC" for gaming, but I want one. I miss RTS games.

Got at least one of everything else though. I try to be unbiased.
 
Ranger X said:
Well, the bolded part there is actually another false statement we hear too much.
An opinion like "The Atari 2600 is more powerfull than a 360" cannot be valid no matter how biased you are. The only thing that actually exist is to be entitled to our own opinions. We can only leave other people having their opinions, valid or not.
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But the statement, "The Atari 2600 is more powerful than the 360," isn't an opinion, it's just a false statement. Console power is not something that's subjective. Anyone who says that shouldn't be taken seriously, because it's just downright false.

Now if someone said, "The Atari 2600 has more great games than the 360," that's an opinion.
 
bryehn said:
I don't have a "modern PC" for gaming, but I want one. I miss RTS games.

Got at least one of everything else though. I try to be unbiased.
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Can't you build one for pretty cheap?
 
AstroLad said:
The thing is we are talking about classes of experiences. As kaching's post alluded to, it would be unworkable to impose further requirements, e.g., that someone play every game or drive every car or eat every burger. But the salient point is that, e.g, if you don't have a competent PC, you are missing out on an entire world of gaming experiences, and this does make you biased to a material degree. The only question that remains is whether you are willing to own up to your bias and recognize the pitfalls of it.

It's not as if I'm saying bias should be a criminal offense, but so few people fail to even perceive this bias and its obvious source.
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I don't disagree that not having major platforms could lead to bias. What I take exception to is you building up the argument to position yourself as The Unbiased Gamer. You've gone only so far as to reach your own boundaries and then stopped short.

You are biased. Everyone is. Bias isn't a terrible thing. It's inherent in every subjective media we can evaluate. Some of us can parse our own opinions and realize that they are colored by a limitless variety of factors while others choose not to. That's all.

Setting up some kind of arbitrary Bias Detection System serves no purpose but to stifle discussion that you deem beneath you and your extensive, elite experiences. By default, you've created a mechanism to support your bias.

Metaphysics and all that.
 
I'm unbiased, in fact, I'm the most unbiased gamer of all in this here forum. No one can beat my unbiasednessitudity since I hate things I have to pay for.

Bam.
 
Claiming to be unbiased is being biased against biased people.

It's all about how you present your opinion. Sometimes I 'yell' by CAPSing but I wouldn't have done it if I thought it wasn't a good point. :P
 
I wish there is an automated game rating system for a change. I think, it's very feasible. You just put sales numbers and name recognitions by counting net/top forums traffics and serveys every week. No random game reviewers bias nor fanboysm in the equation.
 
AstroLad said:
Owning all major platorms is required for someone to even try to claim that they are unbiased, but it is not necessarily enough.
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Good post, and I agree with you for the most part. If I read posts from a person who declares that they only own some of the current systems, or I can gauge that fact from their displayed ignorance, then I immediately dismiss most of their opinions automatically. I honestly feel you can not make valid comparison judgments without the ability to at least spend a lot of time on all of the competitor's machines. Of course you are going to get lots of replies from single console owners who don't want to believe this and claim they are unbiased, but I feel it's true.

Of course, people will still be biased based on their own personal likes and dislikes. Even if two people own all systems, they are going to have their own personal opinions, quirks, and history with the various companies that will influence their decisions and opinions.

I've sometimes thought of writing a detailed post called "A Treatise on Fanboyism" or something to that effect but then I decide that nobody will read it or at the very least take it seriously.

Something that disturbs me is the rampant "political correctness" that has pretty much always been a part of boards like these. What I mean is that if I have a honest, valid opinion on something, I sometimes feel pressured not to say it because many will automatically label me as a "fanboy" or a lover of the opposing system when in reality these things are not the case. This has been true to varying degrees over the years. Currently it's easiest to see in the PS3 fan community. Whenever I say anything negative about the PS3, I feel like I have to temper it with a lot of disclaimers (I own a PS3. I like my PS3, I don't hate Sony, etc.). If I don't, then the most crazy PS3 fans on the board will try to tear you apart like a pack of ravenous dogs. If someone bags on the 360 or Wii, there are certainly defenders but not nearly to the same degree. But this is nothing new, it's been going on for generation after generation. The players are merely different.
 
AstroLad said:
Love Lumines Live, and the skins always keep me coming back for more. Have Lumines 2 as well now so being able to play it on the go will be nice since I don't get in too much Live action at home. Totally forgot you were on my Friends List, damn different XBL names.
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So being an Unbiased Gamer also makes you a better gamer. You've got those absurd timed achievements too, don't you? 70 clears in friggin 60 seconds is nuts.
 
kaching said:
Does it matter if it can't run Crysis The Way It Was Meant To Be Played?
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Hey now, triple SLI is getting affordable!

Dr. Zoidberg said:
Something that disturbs me is the rampant "political correctness" that has pretty much always been a part of boards like these. What I mean is that if I have a honest, valid opinion on something, I sometimes feel pressured not to say it because many will automatically label me as a "fanboy" or a lover of the opposing system when in reality these things are not the case.
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It's true; I often find myself throwing in those kinds of disclaimers in certain threads. I can't totally blame people though; considering the amount of biased trolling that goes on a lazy "fanboy!" reaction to all negative posts isn't totally surprising I suppose.
 
I don't think you need to own all the current consoles to be unbiased... I mean, as you said, you didn't own a PSP so you refrained for discussing it as you don't have the experience with it. That wouldn't necessarily make you a biased DS/PSP gamer, just a responsible/logical gamer/person. Sure you can read the announcements/features, but that's probably only half of the information you need to form a solid opinion...

I don't so much hate people being fans of a given system either, I just hate when people put down a system they don't own. I constantly find myself playing the devil's advocate simply because people don't know what the f*ck they're talking about most of the time. I feel the need to stick up for (balance out) the hate in any debate (360 v PS3, DS v PSP, Mario v. Sonic, Liberal v Conservative, etc.) regardless of which one I prefer. And I definitely hate when people don't use commonsense.
 
Son of Godzilla said:
So being an Unbiased Gamer also makes you a better gamer. You've got those absurd timed achievements too, don't you? 70 clears in friggin 60 seconds is nuts.
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Agreed on that, haven't gone after those yet besides getting the beginner time clear achievements when I first got the game. Been plowing through the skins mostly. Apparently you can get secret skins on some of the packs, e.g., for scoring a million points.
 
Kabuki Waq said:
I own all systems and have beem called a troll by all 3 factions.


I guess i am the only true Unbiased System Warrior here.
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Me, too. All it takes to be "biased" on the internet is to like or dislike a single game.
 
Please let this thread die. Sometimes I think even GAF takes gaming too seriously. I realize that the point of this forum is to discuss the merits and such of various gaming topics, but sometimes I think some of you take it too far. Can't we just enjoy our hobby, realize that most reviews are of little signifigance, and move on? No one outside of a select few people really care about these insane nuances and perceived bias. I really worry about you guys sometimes.
 
Zack-Morris said:
Please let this thread die. Sometimes I think even GAF takes gaming too seriously. I realize that the point of this forum is to discuss the merits and such of various gaming topics, but sometimes I think some of you take it too far. Can't we just enjoy our hobby, realize that most reviews are of little signifigance, and move on? No one outside of a select few people really care about these insane nuances and perceived bias. I really worry about you guys sometimes.
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Hey hey hey hey what is going on here?
 
ToxicAdam said:
I don't fuck Jennifer Love Hewitt ... but I can make value-based judgements on her flabby ass.
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See this is the problem with gamers. You might be able to make judgments on her flabby ass but you have no idea how nice and warm her ass is or how much she enjoys "giving". Your criticism is skin deep and "unqualified".
 
Early on in the conception of The League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen vol. 2, Alan Moore came upon the idea for The New Traveller's Almanac, and what started as a fanciful adventure tale featuring popular literary figures evolved into an attempt to place every piece of fiction into a single cohesive space and timeline.

This thread is AstroLad's similarly trajectoried advancement from simply raising the bar of quality to completely transcending the medium (Message Board Posts About Gaming) in which he works.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
This thread is AstroLad's similarly trajectoried advancement from simply raising the bar of quality to completely transcending the medium (Message Board Posts About Gaming) in which he works.
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I haven't gotten around to reading the third volume of League yet, and now I'm not sure I want to. Thanks a lot.
 
KevinCow said:
But the statement, "The Atari 2600 is more powerful than the 360," isn't an opinion, it's just a false statement. Console power is not something that's subjective. Anyone who says that shouldn't be taken seriously, because it's just downright false.

Now if someone said, "The Atari 2600 has more great games than the 360," that's an opinion.
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Even if my example wasn't great, point is an opinion can be valid and not valid. Any opinion committing sophisms can be put aside as "not valid" imo.
 
I have very unbiased convos with friends who have other consoles about their consoles all the time. Funny how that's harder to do when you have people dishing out misinformation by the truckload. The conversation often ramps up to bitchfest from there; I admittedly get into it too.

The internet is what it is.
 
Booda said:
I haven't gotten around to reading the third volume of League yet, and now I'm not sure I want to. Thanks a lot.
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You've been talked out of experiencing a work of grand entertainment? Don't thank me for that. You're getting the fuzzy end of that lollipop.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
You've been talked out of experiencing a work of grand entertainment? Don't thank me for that. You're getting the fuzzy end of that lollipop.
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Oh, I'll read it. Eventually. When I can do so without associating it with the first post in this thread. Could be years from now, you jerk. :lol
 
Booda said:
Oh, I'll read it. Eventually. When I can do so without associating it with the first post in this thread. Could be years from now, you jerk. :lol
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Hey, a landmark work is a landmark work, no matter the medium.

:lol
 
People buy things that they think they will like.

If you're trying to balance out this imaginary scale, you're creating unwritten rules and I'm afraid you might be batshit insane.
 
I own a Wii, 360, PS3, and have a modern enough PC to play Crysis in my apartment. No, I am not unbiased. I would expand on that except I don't want to troll the thread.

There was a point in time where I thought that owning all the current system would make you unbiased. Until I did that last generation. It was cool to be able to play all new games as they came out, but I still had obvious biased preferences. This may fall in line with your "necessary but not sufficient" but I don't think anyone has zero bias.
 
You can't be unbiased unless you can eat three bowls of Reese's Puff cereal while simultaneously playing Contra 4 blindfolded to the soundtrack of Gears of War.

And you need to do it in Japan.
 
What annoys me much more is the inability to take or express a nuanced opinion, but talk in extreme and agressive black and white terms
 
I don't need to own them all to be impartial. I call em as I see em and pretty much all 3 companies draw my ire from time to time. I call 'em as I see 'em. I have no allegiance to any company or product.

Some here think I hate the PS3. Not true. I hate it's price and Sony's arrogance as if their past somehow clinches their future. This is proving to be the case. I said years ago that most people do not hold allegiance to a brand and I think that it has been proven over the last couple of years.
 
AstroLad said:
But where does this baseless hostility and defensiveness come from? Again, the answer should be pretty clear (but sadly this point is lost on many people here): failure to own all current gaming platforms. Would you trust a restaurant critic who only went to McDonald's a What-a-Burger, but not Burger King and Wendy's? Of course not. The fact that many people perceive their platform choices as "investments" only exacerbates the problem.

Before a few of the "usual suspects" go nuts, I should be clear on the concept of "necessary but not sufficient." Owning all major platorms is required for someone to even try to claim that they are unbiased, but it is not necessarily enough. I should also be clear that "all platforms" includes a rig for modern-day PC gaming as well as 360, PS3, Wii, PSP, and DS. The highly popular "PC gaming is dead" set of memes among console-exclusive owners should be more than enough evidence of the need for this qualification.
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Nonsense! I think I'm able to remain unbiased and I own only one of the major current consoles. Because I don't own a PS3 doesn't mean I think it's going to fail and that it only has trash games. I honestly think the PS3 is gonna do just fine and there's a couple of games for the machine I really want. I just haven't bought it yet because it's expensive and there's not enough games for me to justify the cost... that's not being biased, that's just facing the facts.
 
No, I don't think you can be an unbiased gamer, nor can you be unbiased about anything, especially your hobby, an integral part of the human condition is the fact that nobody has the exact same thoughts, the same opinion, and as such, true objectivity doesn't exist, that said, some are better at hiding their bias than others, I'd like to think that I post here as objectively as I can do, considering my Nintendo/Sega dominated youth and current status as a PC gamer, but hey, that's not for me to judge.
 
Some people are biased for reasons unrelated to any sort of deluded loyalty to a multinational corporation.

I've had a different first party as my primary platform for the last 3 hardware cycles.
 
Sectus said:
Nonsense! I think I'm able to remain unbiased and I own only one of the major current consoles. Because I don't own a PS3 doesn't mean I think it's going to fail and that it only has trash games. I honestly think the PS3 is gonna do just fine and there's a couple of games for the machine I really want. I just haven't bought it yet because it's expensive and there's not enough games for me to justify the cost... that's not being biased, that's just facing the facts.
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Yep. Sony fucked themselves right off the bat with their unreasonable pricing strategy. And yes, maybe all the shit in it makes it cost that much - but I don't give a shit about that. If I can't part with the money for the system, there is a problem.

Sony fanboys will take what I have to say personally, and that's what makes them fanboys.
 
It is simply impossible to be unbiased.

Even if you have every single console and a top of the line PC, you still have your individual preferences. You may prefer SRPGS over regular RPGS, or you may like realistic shooters over sci fi shooters.

Maybe you simply don't play racing games, or your largest concern when to comes to sports games is solely if your favorite player and/or team is included in it.



Anyone who claims a lack of bias is lying. The ONLY way to be entirely unbiased on the subject of video games is to alsobe entirely ignorant of it.
 
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