Wolfgang Jr
Banned
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Do you think the RPG games in the future will ever live up to the greatness 10-20 years ago?
- Thread starter Estellex
- Start date
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
Lightning a shit
like with anything you'll lose "fidelity" along the way. i mean, we'll never get anything like Chrono Trigger or Morrowind again but all things considered the genre is in good shape... along with good "modern" rpgs like Witcher 3 you have titles dedicated to the classic style like Divinity OS, Pillars of Eternity, several others in the current crpgs renaissance, and jrpgs are seeing a resurgence in this regard with Octopath and some indies
you're kind of sitting atop of an embarrassment of spoils to be grousing about "the good 'ol days" imo
you're kind of sitting atop of an embarrassment of spoils to be grousing about "the good 'ol days" imo
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
I wonder how the Fable reboot will go on. Playground Games has grabbed many great talents for this project.
onlyoneno1
Member
I would have to disagree with you, as the recent RPGs are way beyond anything from the past. And not just graphically, the mechanics are deeper, there are actual consequences to your actions that come way after you made your choices in the game (Witcher, ME, Fable), the NPCs now have their own life cycles (skyrim), the combat is more dynamic and realistically unforgiving (dark souls) and the story telling has improved so much that they rival or better movies and tv in some cases (Witcher 3).
It is just nostalgia that makes us think that games were better before in olden times, I would agree that some specific games were better and we loved them (RE2) but that does not mean today's horror games are trash. RE7 is an amazing game, The Evil Within is another example. But its our own biased thinking that old games were better. Specially in the RPG genre it is an entirely baseless statement, the genre has exploded in quality of games and depth of in game systems and stories.
It is just nostalgia that makes us think that games were better before in olden times, I would agree that some specific games were better and we loved them (RE2) but that does not mean today's horror games are trash. RE7 is an amazing game, The Evil Within is another example. But its our own biased thinking that old games were better. Specially in the RPG genre it is an entirely baseless statement, the genre has exploded in quality of games and depth of in game systems and stories.
Denton
Member
It is, no idea what OP is on aboutSo, Witcher 3 isn't ultimate RPG masterpiece after all?
I mean it is hard to top classics like Fallout 1/2/PST/BG2, but Witcher 3, New Vegas, Kingdom Come are up there.
Makariel
Member
Demon's Souls is not an action game, pal.
borzas2010
Member
Its never happening, gaming industry is getting old, and boring, its all about sequels,DLC,and money,no real new gameplay, nobody can make new game, its impossible. JRPG is dead, the big ones is trying survive by westernized like final fantasy. Witcher 3 was great, but honesty I wouldn't give a shot for 2nd play through, I think the plot was weak,and no new thing about the gameplay its not count new in gaming industry,and mostly everyone talks about the sex in the game....
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Makariel
Member
Kingdom Come?
Vampyr?
borzas2010
Member
Its not new game, there is nothing "new" about the gameplay in gaming industry.
borzas2010
Member
Why?
Strife In a Teacup
Member
So Cyberpunk will suck? I think not.
I have ever single Beamdog Infinity Engine Enhanced edition game, all currently installed. I've recently played through several, including BG2 and it still, to this day, stands the test of time. It is still one of the best RPGs ever made, easily.
Now, don't get me wrong, some of the newer rpgs are quite good. Skyrim, I would say, is probably the best Elder Scrolls since Daggerfall. Morrowind was great, but honestly I'd rather remember it and not play it, it's fairly janky.
Now for Fallout, I think the only way they'll top New Vegas is to contract Obsidian to make another spinoff.
As far as new isometric games like Pillars of Eternity 2. It's a solid game, I love it more than Pillars 1, but unfortunately it seems most everyone did not as PoE2 sold very little. The only reason I would still say BG2, or IWD2, are better is because I love D&D, the setting really does it for me.
For action rpgs/dungeon crawlers like Diablo, I'd say they are the best they've been right now with Grim Dawn. It's basically the spiritual successor to Diablo 2 and is one of the best dungeon crawlers I've played.
Roguelikes which fall into the rpg realm I'd say are the best they've been with Tales of Maj'Eyal which just received an expansion recently.
Blobber rpgs? I don't think will ever get something like MM6 again. Which is unfortunate since I loved those games.
MMORPGs? The DIKU-like MMORPGs I love are dead and gone. Perhaps Pantheon will somehow bring it back, but I'm not holding my breath on that one. I know people love ESO, I however do not.
borzas2010
Member
Cyberpunk will be better than witcher3, because you will have more freedom in the character and the storyline.
Strife In a Teacup
Member
No doubt, looking forward to it. I'd be remiss if I didn't play it, being a William Gibson fan and all.
Makariel
Member
You have a very narrow view on what "new" means. So by that argument anything that used M&K or controller after the very first games cannot be new, because what is really new about moving a stick slightly different?
borzas2010
Member
You wrong... There was new things in the previous generation games, new game elements, mechanics, you know... Something new...
Makariel
Member
Can you give specific examples? I use PCs most of the time, a console "generation" does hence mean little to me. What timeframe are we talking? What makes a historical first person RPG without any supernatural elements but keen eye for detail "old" and how many of those were there in the previous gen?
borzas2010
Member
I'm not talking about RPG but all games... Mirrors edge was somewhat count as an original unique game, because there wasn't any game before like that, (the artistic direction,platform parkour, mixing with FPS shooter and fighting with bare hand) but vampyr not new in anything.
Helios
Member
Because he likes to bait.
Makariel
Member
You're changing the subject, I asked specifically about Kingdom Come Deliverance in the post you quoted. Also new "this gen": VR games that are actually playable, like Battlezone VR or Farpoint. What about Superhot (even though I don't particularly like it, there was innovative gamplay in there) or Pokemon GO?
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Cybrwzrd
Banned
All of those wonderful innovative perennial AAA titles (first release in parentheses)... like Call of Duty (2003), Battlefield (2002), Destiny (Halo 2001), Assassin's Creed (2007). They are known for shaking up the genre every successive title. Remember when Call of Duty became an action platformer, and Assassin's Creed did that whole space flight sim thing?
borzas2010
Member
Kingdom come deliverance is a elder scroll copy cat, except the battle system what was somewhat new, but still...
Makariel
Member
So you acknowledge that it is new then, and again ignore everything else I wrote. And calling it a elder scrolls copy cat is funny, since the only thing it really shares with elder scrolls is the fact that it is open world. Anyway, have fun with your games from 1979, when innovation seemed to die in your view.
borzas2010
Member
then go ahead, enlighten me what's so new about kingdom?
Trogdor1123
Gold Member
Some day, sure. Things go in cycles. I'm sure we will see a return some day.
bati
Member
Melee system, quests and events that take different paths based on time elapsed, actually immersive systems like alchemy, dedication to realism in general, gear subtleties that affect gameplay (dark clothing is better for sneaking, people will respect you less if your clothes are dirty), different persuasion types that are affected by what you're wearing and how many friends the target has around them (applies to guards and some other npcs), etc. Not to mention excellent locational damage, if you're wearing a helmet with open or no visor and you take an arrow to the face it will be just like you're not wearing a helmet.
The game is miles ahead of competition on a systems level.
borzas2010
Member
well this is true
CloudStrife_ca
Member
I'm not so sure, after growing up and playing through the golden era of jrpgs, Final Fantasy VI, VII, VIII, Valkyrie Profile, Star Ocean: The Second Story, I'm not sure people would embrace these games as well as they did before, when a game like Octopath Traveler comes out and people complain about random battles and old school grinding, RPG's have evolved. Visually obviously RPGs now exceed what was possible before, story wise we'll see.
Hotel Security
Member
Based on what? It's not an RPG and I don't get the point of the "RPG" label when these are much closer to action/adventure or just plain action. Souls games have more in common with hack and slash games than they do RPGs.
You have to have timing to dodge attacks, have to understand i-frames and it's often based on reflexes, studying enemy cues, attack patterns, and finding the right time for openings. I fail to see why this would somehow have more in common with Chrono Trigger than God of War.
Seriously, if Demon's Souls didn't involved knights and swords and shields and took place in outer space, no one would label it an RPG. It's just a bad label and it stuck because people just repeat everything they see. Souls games are not RPGs. Just having "elements of an RPG" does not make your game an RPG.
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Vawn
Banned
Demon's Souls is 100% an rpg. It's also a Japanese game. Yet, I can't call it a JRPG. That term has come to mean something different from its literal definition.
Bl@de
Member
AAA? Not often. Exceptions are games like Witcher 3, Kindom Come etc.
Indies and crowdfunded games? Definetly. So much easier to make games now for small studios. Cheap game engines, working with the community, etc. Just don‘t expect bells and whistles. But Divinity, PoE, Underrail, etc. are fantastic RPGs
Indies and crowdfunded games? Definetly. So much easier to make games now for small studios. Cheap game engines, working with the community, etc. Just don‘t expect bells and whistles. But Divinity, PoE, Underrail, etc. are fantastic RPGs
Makariel
Member
I said Demon's Souls, not "Souls games", which eventually evolved into something that is it's own genre, rather than being able to be shoehorned into existing genres. I would not call Bloodborne an RPG for example, it is clearly much more at home in the action or "soulslike" genre. Demon's Souls is an entirely different matter however. It does have quests, it does have NPCs which live or die (mostly die) based on the players actions. It has a rather extensive crafting/upgrade system and stats have significant effect on the performance of the avatar. Much more than in later games that have a "souls" in the title.
The combat is also much slower and methodical, less based on reflexes. For example: if you hit the attack button three times it will attempt to perform these three actions, unless you run out of stamina or get hit in between. Together with the fact that so many enemies are in no particular hurry to murder you, the combat would be turn based if it were any slower. That of course changed in later games. Every subsequent game got faster and more reliant on reflexes and pattern recognition. And in Dark Souls 3 you can roll around like a maniac in full plate armor from the start of the game, something which was only possible lategame with godlike stats or very particular equipment in Demon's.
So Demon's has quests, NPCs with which you can interact (and which you can brutally murder), stats, spells and equipment that greatly affect the way you can play, a deep crafting system and each of the areas tells a sort of mini-story, which all form part of the larger narrative. How is this not an RPG?
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
I mean, Obsidian is carrying that torch with Pillars 1,2, and Tyranny. So is Larian Studios with their Divinity: Original Sin games. There's also the Wasteland and Shadowrun reboots as well. I believe all those games fit your Baldur's gate nostolgia. They're out there OP, you just apparently aren't looking.
docmindbender
Member
Yeah, this, for sure. Like, what 'components', exactly?
Deadfire is a phenomenal extension of the Baldur's Gate mould, and Octopath similarly so for oldschool jrpgs. The new Divinity games? I mean these are world class 'classic rpgs'.
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Denton
Member
plus it happens to be the only purely historical, nonfantasy RPG made in like, decades, if not ever.
Alexander DeLarge
Member
Honestly I think the genre is getting better as hardcore fans of the genre are getting more and more pissed off at the AAA offerings having the depth of a puddle. I have a lot of faith in jaded Bethesda fans in particular. Look at the resurgence of Daggerfall love and the great work that the OpenMW project is doing. What's really exciting is that in a year or two, OpenCS will be available to anyone that wants to create a commercial "Bethesda-style open world game" and I'd imagine there is no shortage of promising mod teams that are willing to do just that.
I love the fact that many of these RPG series will be competing with their own fans soon... And unlike AAAs, they don't need to sell a copy to everyone and their grandmothers to make a profit and to be considered a success.
I love the fact that many of these RPG series will be competing with their own fans soon... And unlike AAAs, they don't need to sell a copy to everyone and their grandmothers to make a profit and to be considered a success.
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UnwrittenZero
Member
So you think Witcher 3 and Kingdom Come: Deliverance are full of a political agenda? What agenda might that be?
Your right Trump gets way more ass.
Imo RPG are doing pretty fine, specialy W-RPG... The Witcher III, Pillars 1 and 2 and most recently Divinity Original Sin II the master piece.
However when it come to J-RPG I agree with you... Final Fantasy serie is dead, Suikoden is dead, Tales Of are all the sames, only the Persona serie live up to the expectation.
But to me the real genre who has been doomed and disappeared since more than 12 years now, is the MMORPG... Since World of Warcraft and the imposed themepark model, who then turned MMORPG into cashgrab & pay2win to alienate people, the genre is so messed up.
The only idea of a total seamless world based on players actions and consequenses is something unbelievable, while it was the whole point of the genre 15 years ago.
The genre reputation is so low that when you talk about MMORPG to someone he only hear : "grind" "boring" "no life" , while the words "unique adventure" "friendship" "free will" are gone from the game vocabulary.
This so sad... I wish new players know what I have experienced 12 years ago, of course it wasn't for all kind of player, but for those who liked it there is no turning back! Unfortunatly now we just have nothing to play with...
I think this is the biggest loss of modern video game, and I don't see any publisher going into the dev of a AAA 'sandbox' MMORPG right now.
However when it come to J-RPG I agree with you... Final Fantasy serie is dead, Suikoden is dead, Tales Of are all the sames, only the Persona serie live up to the expectation.
But to me the real genre who has been doomed and disappeared since more than 12 years now, is the MMORPG... Since World of Warcraft and the imposed themepark model, who then turned MMORPG into cashgrab & pay2win to alienate people, the genre is so messed up.
The only idea of a total seamless world based on players actions and consequenses is something unbelievable, while it was the whole point of the genre 15 years ago.
The genre reputation is so low that when you talk about MMORPG to someone he only hear : "grind" "boring" "no life" , while the words "unique adventure" "friendship" "free will" are gone from the game vocabulary.
This so sad... I wish new players know what I have experienced 12 years ago, of course it wasn't for all kind of player, but for those who liked it there is no turning back! Unfortunatly now we just have nothing to play with...
I think this is the biggest loss of modern video game, and I don't see any publisher going into the dev of a AAA 'sandbox' MMORPG right now.
Unfortunately, quite true. Though I still wonder whether there's just no market for a proper MMORPG anymore, or whether developers just avoid it and, if they try to tackle it, went into a direction that doesn't excite people anymore.
I for one don't find any of the modern MMORPGs interesting in any way. That theme park-design that you mentioned just isn't appealing at all. On the other hand, I'm really looking forward to the launch of classic WoW & am super excited to play that again. So for me, it's not that I've lost interest in MMORPGs, but rather that modern ones don't really cater to my personal preferences anymore.
Either way, it's a bit of a shame that VR hasn't really taken off (yet?), as I'd think a proper VR MMORPG could be an absolute game-changer and impact culture in a similar way that WoW once did. But I guess it may take a fair bit longer til the market is ready for that (market penetration of VR headsets, and hopefully fixing issues such as VR motion sickness)
Obviously not out till September, but I have high hopes for Dragon Quest XI. Import impressions were very good.
Witcher 3 is probably in my top 3 RPGs, and probably my number 1 western RPG. I can't think of anything Baldurs Gate or Planescape or etc did that blew me away as much as Witcher 3 did.
Witcher 3 is probably in my top 3 RPGs, and probably my number 1 western RPG. I can't think of anything Baldurs Gate or Planescape or etc did that blew me away as much as Witcher 3 did.
Cactuarman
Banned
Witcher 2 & 3 are some of my favorite games ever but come - Baldur's Gate II, Planescape Torment, Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy VI, Fallout 2. That list is so full of obvious masterpieces that shitting on them just looks silly.
