Support NeoGAF

[Helios]

Posted for K kassj0peja

Consoles without a digital output get less and less 'compatible' with modern screens. The image is stretched and there is input latency.
With the MClassic and the possibility to upscale 480p content to 1440p I became very interested again in using my old consoles. In the last few years affordable devices like the OSSC and Retrotink 2X appeared and offer lagless experiences on modern big screens via HDMI. But to get the best results good cables (old ones which became expensive or newly devoloped ones), adapters or modifications (HDMI, consolizung, RGB) are required and they sum up. Another way to play old games are FPGA consoles which are not actual hardware but at least allow you to use your old carts.

I am still doing research which setup provides good solutions without spending too much. The MClassic I will be using on more modern machines too. A combination with the OSSC or the Retrotink sounds very promising. But then there is the question if I should upgrade to better cables.

How do you play your old games on modern screens? Dont you even mind the input lag or a stretched picture. Or did you change the setup so much that you spent more money on your old consoles than a new console costs?

 

[jufonuk]

Ideally get an old crt off eBay. Otherwise. I mess with settings to get the best outcome.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Honestly, OP, you've just gotta bite the bullet and spend money. That's the only way I was able to get a setup for old shit that lived up to what I wanted it to be.

 

[kassj0peja]

Thanks for posting Helios

A CRT is not an option for me, even though I think the image quality is very good.

For me the minimum requirement is a lagless 480p signal so I can use it with the MClassic (which does not support lower resolutions) on my 1440p monitor. For me the Retrotink would be the cheapest but also an easy plug and play solution. I could use my old cables but also have the option to improve the image quality with component cables. Those are not cheap and the benefits are not that big because the Retrotink does not support 480p input. So for various consoles an OSSC is a better solution. For everything up to the N64 the Retrotink seems the best solution. HDMI via mods or adapters seem to be the best solution but are not available for every console.

If there was a cheap and lagless S-Video/composite linedoubler that outputs 480p, I would know what to do.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

I used the Retron series (the 3, then the 5) when those came out, but the build quality is bad and they still introduce some lag. I've fiddled with upscalers. Those introduce lag too, don't let anyone say otherwise. Getting the original hardware to run on new displays is too much work. I think eventually these aftermarket companies will make it work, but we're not there.

Eventually I just went the CRT route. It wasn't for the sake of purity or top performance, though that's what you end up getting.

K kassj0peja if you can't manage a CRT TV, what about a PC CRT monitor? They're even more "worthless" than tube TVs and therefore easy to obtain. And they're smaller. And you can use a Component-to-VGA (or similar) converter to plug in old consoles.

Alternatively, build a computer with enough CPU power to use the runahead function of modern emulators, which eliminates the bulk of the input lag inherent in those setups.

 

[kassj0peja]

Emulation is something I want to avoid as long as I have original hardware, but then I could spend the money for retro gadgets in better PC components. And in a few months I have to buy a new computer anyway for Shenmue. It is the first time in 15 years that I will be capable of gaming on a PC. But with the MClassic I was thinking of getting just an entry level gaming PC which makes emulation more difficult.

DunDunDunpachi Why do you think getting original hardware to run on modern screens is too much work and that we are not there yet? 480p signals via HDMI should be no problem for any modern screen and this is what the OSSC and Retrotink provide, lagless. The question I am asking myself is if I am willing to spend at least 100 dollars just to get the picture on a modern screen or go the extra mile and spend more on cables or HDMI solutions to get the best result.

 

[HE1NZ]

I bought Retrotink for Saturn and N64. They both use S-Video and my current HDTV doesn't have that. It's a cool device.

 

[Weilthain]

I actually took my switch and dock to the place I bought my tv from and said to the salesman I need to do a mario jump test before I buy the tv. It passed for my standards so I bought it.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

DunDunDunpachi Why do you think getting original hardware to run on modern screens is too much work and that we are not there yet? 480p signals via HDMI should be no problem for any modern screen and this is what the OSSC and Retrotink provide, lagless. The question I am asking myself is if I am willing to spend at least 100 dollars just to get the picture on a modern screen or go the extra mile and spend more on cables or HDMI solutions to get the best result.

They are not lagless . By their very nature, upscalers must wait for the source analog hardware to raster a full frame, upscale and convert that frame to an HD picture, and then send that frame to your panel. The image on a CRT and the image on a panel are not produced the same way. On a CRT, the console hardware rasters the image in real time on your screen, one dot at a time. The console is plugged into the electron gun that is activating each phosphor group on your screen, one by one.

You can get around this by eliminating lag between the source hardware and by using a very low input lag TV (which is different than pixel response time, the number that is typically advertised for a panel), but there will still be lag. Runahead can be used to eliminate even more lag but this requires emulation (specifically, save-state capability).

 

[SegaShack]

I’ve tried the OSSC with every configuration possible. Don’t know much about lag but I ended up going back to my CRT (PVM) after never getting the picture quality to look right.

 

[rofif]

Old games as 90s pc games are looking great with integer scaling on 4k displays. I highly suggest checking out integer scaling on nvidia for 4k tv/monitor owners.
As for consoles? - I only keep 360 around and it looks rough with no way of making those games look like if I've played on 720p native screen.

 

[kassj0peja]

Sounds like going the extra mile and go for HDMI mods is not only the better solution when it comes to the image quality but also the lag issue. I forgot to say that I am looking for a solution mostly for Xbox and Gamecube. Using 16 bit consoles would only be a nice side effect. That is one reason why I was eyeing the Retrotink.

 

[Virex]

If people turn game mode on, on their tvs they will have a less laggy experience in all aspects.

For my old consoles I still have my CRT to play them.

 

[kunonabi]

I just keep an old CRT TV around for the bulk of my retro library along with a CRT monitor for my Dreamcast.

 

[Digity]

Craigslist or kijiji, people are giving away CRTs.

 

[Caffeine]

not really I play on a 1ms 144hz monitor through hdmi. while the pc is plugged into the display port. and just change input.

 

[Mihos]

 

[Antwix]

Hell, I'm throwing a big ass Sony CRT out on the curb today for trash pickup. I'd sell it but it's not even worth the effort.

 

[Mr Nash]

Luckily I still have my old CRT from the 90s and it's operational, so I just use that.