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[Shrap]

I've seen it pop up throughout a bunch of reviews in recent years and it came up again in IGN's Last of Us 2 review. The reviewer actually put this in a highlighted section of the review:

As a Dog Lover
In The Last of Us Part 2, dogs are a major threat because they can sniff you out even when Ellie’s well-hidden from humans. You can distract them with throwable bottles or bricks, but if you don’t keep moving they’ll inevitably pick your scent back up. As a dog owner, I found it horrifying to be confronted with a situation in which I have to kill a dog (as opposed to a human who’s made a conscious decision to fight you to the death). No, they’re not real, but Naughty Dog has done an amazing job of animating their namesakes in lifelike ways. While you can’t feed treats to or play fetch with the dogs in the middle of battle, if it’s just too much to have to subdue one, I suggest sprinting away for your life. Dogs can pick up your scent, if you’re far enough away they become disinterested in you until they eventually amble closer to you on the map. Heights are your friend as well because, unlike Air Bud, there’s something in the Last of Us rulebook about dogs not being allowed to climb ladders. I often used those techniques to avoid watching Ellie do something I never could.

There are also earlier articles when gameplay footage came out showing great distress for the livelihood of these digital dogs such as this one by gamesradar. I'm sure other reviews have brought it up too.

I find it disturbing how lowly they value human life to massacre thousands of people in games without blinking but when an animal enters the equation they suddenly feel "distressed" and "horrified". Even if the animal is attacking you like the dogs do in TLOU2 which the IGN reviewer conveniently left out.

Now I'm cool with killing humans in games, as it's entertainment removed from reality. I'm also cool with killing animals in games for the same reason. But these people have actually consciously thought it through and decided that killing humans is ok and killing animals is not ok. If they weren't cool with either that would make sense. But this kill people/don't kill animals mindset shows a distinct lack of compassion specifically towards humans. That's pretty twisted.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Yeah it seems silly. We're talking about a culture that regularly jokes "I'm leaving this country/planet" and "when will the asteroid hit" and so forth.

But the doggos.

Just goes to show that people will be disproportionately empathetic on topics that tug their heartstrings, and if you don't have positive relationships with humans, why would violence against humans bother you?

 

[Spaceman292]

It's not surprising. It's been the same with movies for decades. Remember Independence Day? A whole city of people get vaporized and it's awesome. But if that dog hadn't jumped to safety at the last moment then people would have rioted.

 

[mitch1971]

Because humans are cunts. Simples.

 

[llien]

It is actually not all humans, but humans of one sex.

It reflects how people really feel about things.

Would pretending that we care for a random man more than for those cute beings help anyone?

 

[-Arcadia-]

Another angle might be desensitization. Violence against humans is a key plot mover for most of entertainment, and most of us have been seeing it for decades.

 

[Kuranghi]

Another angle might be desensitization. Violence against humans is a key plot mover for most of entertainment, and most of us have been seeing it for decades.

Indeed, perhaps Bugsnax will change everything.

 

[Airola]

Example from The Toxic Avenger movie:

Scene 1:
A dog gets shot when thugs attack a fast food joint.

Scene 2:
Thugs drive over a 12-year old kid. Reverse back over him again, crushing his skull. They take pictures of the dead kid and a woman from that group masturbates while watching the pictures.

Guess which scene gave Troma more backlash?

 

[Memorabilia]

Many (most?) humans are ignorant assholes. Animals are simply more lovable for a variety of reasons. I'm in the medical field but at times I'd rather be a vet than a doc. It is what it is.

 

[BattleScar]

Is it really that surprising?

People on this very forum display almost vitriolic hatred for its sister forum, RESETERA, due to the difference in political stance. And vice versa.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Is it really that surprising?

People on this very forum display almost vitriolic hatred for its sister forum, RESETERA, due to the difference in political stance. And vice versa.

lol yeah, the "difference in political stance"

 

[Aidah]

That's really idiotic. None of it is real.

 

[Thugnificient]

Nah, not against humans, against adult humans. Violence against children is equally frowned upon. Animals just like children are often and rightfully considered innocent. They are rarely the cause for the problems we face and most view them as pure and wishing harm upon no one.

Whereas adult humans are sorta always the problem and we all lump them together in the same basket.

I understand the logic. I don't care about it. It's a video game.

 

[Doom85]

Reminds me somewhat of Arthur after Earth is destroyed at the beginning of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:

"There was no way his imagination could feel the impact of the whole Earth having gone, it was too big. He prodded his feelings by thinking that his parents and his sister had gone. No reaction. He thought of all the people he had been close to. No reaction. Then he thought of a complete stranger he had been standing behind in the queue at the supermarket two days before and felt a sudden stab--the supermarket was gone, everyone in it was gone. Nelson's Column had gone! Nelson's Column had gone and there would be no outcry, because there was no one left to make an outcry. From now on Nelson's Column only existed in his mind. England only existed in his mind--his mind, stuck here in this dank smelly steel-lined spaceship. A wave of claustrophobia closed in on him. England no longer existed.

He'd got that--somehow he'd got it. He tried again. America, he thought, has gone. He couldn't grasp it. He decided to start smaller again. New York has gone. No reaction. He'd never seriously believed it existed anyway. The dollar, he thought, has sunk forever. Slight tremor there. Every Bogart movie has been wiped, he said to himself, and that gave him a nasty knock. McDonald's, he thought. There is no longer any such thing as a McDonald's hamburger. He passed out. When he came round a second later he found he was sobbing for his mother."

But yeah, I don't personally get it, an animal dying is sad sure, but I will find deaths and what not involving humans sadder. Seriously, unpopular opinion here, but in terms of Futurama episodes Luck of the Fryish made me more emotional than Jurassic Bark. Fry's dog never getting to see him again? Definitely sad. Fry's brother naming his son after him and always missing him, likely regretting never getting to make clear how much he actually meant to him? Fucking devastating.

And yeah, if an animal attacks me in TLOU 2 with the intent to kill or injure, I'm fighting in self-defense with zero hesitation. There's no time for a moral debate when death is leaping straight at you with its jaws open.

 

[turtlepowa]

It seems to be pretty common, but i never understood this. They play Hitman and strangle, drown, shoot or stab family fathers with a smile on their face but killing a virtual pet makes them enrage. I love animals too, but good lord, they are not even real in games.

 

[Kuranghi]

Probably to do with perceived "innocence" as well, these people think dogs don't know why they are being trained to hunt and kill so they are innocent. I can't say I fully agree, its part of the the animals natural instinct that it acts like that, its complicated but I'd say humans are just giving it a target more than anything else.

If a horse kicks someone in the head when they walk behind it (with no provocation) I dont think "oh the horse didn't know what it was doing", I think its an animal and doesn't have compassion over people it kills intentionally. Although I haven't spent much time around horses.

 

[01011001]

or it's just simple psychology

it is out instinct to defend what we find cute.
cuteness is simply an instinct that told our ancestors to protect their children.
we find children cute, so we want to protect them.

many animals give us similar feelings. some because they're having similar proportions like big eyes and round faces (see Cats for example).
and for dogs, we see them as our children because we care for them and often raise them like as if they are children.
many Dog breeds also are designed to, again, show physical traits like big eyes and round faces to look cuter to the human eye.
the same happened with some Cat breeds.

meanwhile, a grown man that we don't know is not something worth protection going by instinct.
a strange man would be a possible threat in the world of our hunter/gatherer ancestors, where our instincts are still stuck to a degree.

this is why it's often less of an issue for many to shoot a human AI but it is an issue to shoot a small animal that's usually treated like a child in our society

 

[the_master]

I am fine with it. I'd rather not see animals being tortured. Makes me feel bad.
Humans are ok.

 

[Happosai]

I've seen it pop up throughout a bunch of reviews in recent years and it came up again in IGN's Last of Us 2 review. The reviewer actually put this in a highlighted section of the review:


There are also earlier articles when gameplay footage came out showing great distress for the livelihood of these digital dogs such as this one by gamesradar. I'm sure other reviews have brought it up too.

I find it disturbing how lowly they value human life to massacre thousands of people in games without blinking but when an animal enters the equation they suddenly feel "distressed" and "horrified". Even if the animal is attacking you like the dogs do in TLOU2 which the IGN reviewer conveniently left out.

Now I'm cool with killing humans in games, as it's entertainment removed from reality. I'm also cool with killing animals in games for the same reason. But these people have actually consciously thought it through and decided that killing humans is ok and killing animals is not ok. If they weren't cool with either that would make sense. But this kill people/don't kill animals mindset shows a distinct lack of compassion specifically towards humans. That's pretty twisted.

So, do the same idiots flip their lids when someone playing a virtual pet game forgets to feed the pet, this leading to death of virtual puppy due to neglect? Call the ASPCA and PETA! Someone's virtual cat died! It's a video game. The same people are also anti-guns and enjoy a good terrorist shoot-out in GTAV. Is this the age of micro-aggression, SJWs, or both?

 

[SuperLupeRap]

Blows my mind

 

[Replicant_Reaper]

Dogs are more "innocent" and frequently show more unconditional love and loyalty than humans. It's not hard to understand.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

I find fellow humans who anthropomorphize animals disgusting.

 

[BattleScar]

lol yeah, the "difference in political stance"

I mean, how you phrase it, or whatever you perceive the hatred to be caused by, doesn't really matter to me.
It just proves my point. People here, hate people in REE, and people in REE hate people here.

Does it "disturb" anyone that you can have such hatred for your fellow human beings? Do any of you ever go to bed at night and really lament the fact that these two online gaming communities hate each other so much?
Animals and pets don't have the baggage of people. If you treat your dog well, it'll be a loyal companion until the day it dies. A dog won't walk up to you one day and say it supports Antifa or the KKK or some such nonsense, and break your trust. Its a dog. People see pets as innocent, and undeserving of human brutality. That's just the way things are.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

I mean, how you phrase it, or whatever you perceive the hatred to be caused by, doesn't really matter to me.
It just proves my point. People here, hate people in REE, and people in REE hate people here.

Does it "disturb" anyone that you can have such hatred for your fellow human beings? Do any of you ever go to bed at night and really lament the fact that these two online gaming communities hate each other so much?
Animals and pets don't have the baggage of people. If you treat your dog well, it'll be a loyal companion until the day it dies. A dog won't walk up to you one day and say it supports Antifa or the KKK or some such nonsense, and break your trust. Its a dog. People see pets as innocent, and undeserving of human brutality. That's just the way things are.

Thanks for showing up and explaining it to us as you float above it all. I'll be sure to take your opinion into consideration instead of my own lived experience.

 

[TexMex]

Game reviewers have grown more infantile with each passing year so it’s annoying but not unexpected.

 

[keraj37]

Dogs are humans too.

 

[MiguelItUp]

It seems to be pretty common, but i never understood this. They play Hitman and strangle, drown, shoot or stab family fathers with a smile on their face but killing a virtual pet makes them enrage. I love animals too, but good lord, they are not even real in games.

Exactly, and ditto.

I personally find it disturbing because it's a goddamn video game and it isn't real. Killing/harming an animal in a video game doesn't mean a live one dies, or that you enjoying killing or harming living ones. Just like humans. I really don't understand or get it.

In a lot of situations I feel that if people are resonating with something to THAT degree in a video game, maybe they shouldn't be playing video games. Be it for their own personal health, and/or those around them.

 

[Moogle11]

Nah, not against humans, against adult humans. Violence against children is equally frowned upon. Animals just like children are often and rightfully considered innocent. They are rarely the cause for the problems we face and most view them as pure and wishing harm upon no one.

Exactly. It’s easier to be ok with violence against adult humans in games, movies etc. as they usually clearly make the enemies “bad guys” who do terrible things. There aren’t really evil children or animals, while it’s easy to make a game or movie with Nazis or whatever type of villain that people don’t mind seeing killed.

As another example, things like domestic violence or brutal deaths of the “good” characters In media is often very disturbing and uncomfortable to watch. Where as with villains it can be cathartic.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

It's most likely a case of being paid by a company to bad-mouth an other company with the most effective angle that doesn't directly bad-mouth the game.

Those gamers old enough to remember the Battlefield vs COD astro-turf wars will know this tactic has never gone away. For those not old enough, but Acti and EA were caught using bot-farms to slag off the others product on the IGN gaming forum.

It's our duty as forum-frequenting gamers that we oust all real shills, not those who are just nuts for the brand like the_last_word, but those who are being paid to be disingenuous like Lady Borinstein

 

[BattleScar]

Thanks for showing up and explaining it to us as you float above it all. I'll be sure to take your opinion into consideration instead of my own lived experience.

I wasn't trying to appear sanctimonious here, so I apologise if it came across that way. I hate people as much as the next guy.

Its just an observation.

I mean most people eat meat. Nobody bats an eye when you send a cow or a pig to slaughter, but the idea of butchering a cat or a dog for food....

 

[EverydayBeast]

"find it disturbing when reviewers show grave concern for video game animals but not humans?"

 

[LordOfChaos]

It's just silly. You signed up for violence playing the game, and nether the human characters nor the dogs are actually hurting anyone.

It's like the whole thing a while ago and still somewhat now, with when female NPC soldiers were introduced into some games that became a big deal somehow, and it's just like...What the hell did that say about societal value of male life?

 

[Danjin44]

Human or animal, its a god damn video game!!!

This exists for a reason, for fuck sake.....how long this oversensetive culture needs to go on?

 

[Moogle11]

Human or animal, its a god damn video game!!!

This exists for a reason, for fuck sake.....how long this oversensetive culture needs to go on?

While I largely agree, I've mostly just seen people saying they were personally bothered by the level of violence (be it overall or the animal part specifically). I haven't really seen people saying such games should be banned/not made.

I don't have any problem with people (or reviewers) talking about parts of games they found personally off putting. People aren't going to like every aspect of most games and some types of games just aren't going to be for some people. As long as they're just expressing their own opinions, experiences and feelings I have no issue with it. If they start talking about games being banned or certain types of things not being made in the first place, then yeah, they can fuck right off.

But expressing opinions is valid and useful so that others who don't enjoy hyper violent things or whatever can tell the game isn't for them. The TV ads etc. don't tend to show the most extreme parts of games, so reviews, forum posts etc. can still be informative to those folks. Though maybe less useful here when it's a sequel to what was already an incredibly violent game.

 

[VN1X]

I've seen it pop up throughout a bunch of reviews in recent years and it came up again in IGN's Last of Us 2 review. The reviewer actually put this in a highlighted section of the review:


There are also earlier articles when gameplay footage came out showing great distress for the livelihood of these digital dogs such as this one by gamesradar. I'm sure other reviews have brought it up too.

I find it disturbing how lowly they value human life to massacre thousands of people in games without blinking but when an animal enters the equation they suddenly feel "distressed" and "horrified". Even if the animal is attacking you like the dogs do in TLOU2 which the IGN reviewer conveniently left out.

Now I'm cool with killing humans in games, as it's entertainment removed from reality. I'm also cool with killing animals in games for the same reason. But these people have actually consciously thought it through and decided that killing humans is ok and killing animals is not ok. If they weren't cool with either that would make sense. But this kill people/don't kill animals mindset shows a distinct lack of compassion specifically towards humans. That's pretty twisted.

I think it mostly stems from the fact that animals are on a 'lower' level to us and are by default innocent until a human enters the equation (we train dogs to kill, use animals for food, etc).

I can sort of see where the reviewer comes from but I agree that this a rather hypocritical stance. These fuckers who complain about having to fight dogs or animals in videogams probably don't event bat an eye with regards to the horrible treatment of animals in our food industry.

 

[Astral Dog]

Not really because its rare to see violence against animals in videogames, put pretty common to watch human killing themselves in games/movies, people are just so used to it that it doesn't matter.

Those poor puppies though, i wont play tlous2

 

[Danjin44]

While I largely agree, I've mostly just seen people saying they were personally bothered by the level of violence (be it overall or the animal part specifically). I haven't really seen people saying such games should be banned/not made.

I don't have any problem with people (or reviewers) talking about parts of games they found personally off putting. People aren't going to like every aspect of most games and some types of games just aren't going to be for some people. As long as they're just expressing their own opinions, experiences and feelings I have no issue with it. If they start talking about games being banned or certain types of things not being made in the first place, then yeah, they can fuck right off.

But expressing opinions is valid and useful so that others who don't enjoy hyper violent things or whatever can tell the game isn't for them. The TV ads etc. don't tend to show the most extreme parts of games, so reviews, forum posts etc. can still be informative to those folks. Though maybe less useful here when it's a sequel to what was already an incredibly violent game.

I agree that reviewers needs to inform the viewers that this game is going violent but why lose point over it? Its like criticizing horror game for being too scary.....playing this type of game, you should know what you are getting in to.

 

[Neff]

Humans have freedom and rights. Animals don't.

 

[V2Tommy]

1. It's not real, so don't get bent out of shape.
2. "Animal Lovers" throw some of the best BBQs around, so I dunno.

 

[Moogle11]

I agree that reviewers needs to inform the viewers that this game is going violent but why lose point over it? Its like criticizing horror game for being too scary.....playing this type of game, you should know what you are getting in to.

I do largely agree with that. I mostly don't pay attention to individual reviewers as sites/magazines don't do a good job of assigning only reviewers who are fans of the genre/type of game. But, like you note, it is good for them to mention such thing to inform viewers/readers, but it shouldn't impact the score. Forum posters or whatever? Totally free to say whatever about their feelings on it, as long as they aren't calling for bans or trying to cancel creators etc.

For me, I'm sure the violence will be off putting to me as it already was a bit in the first game and this is way more brutal with the better graphics, more emotional reactions from the friends of people you kill, the whining dogs etc. But I'm ok with that. This isn't a game I'm playing to have a fun time or get warm and fuzzy feelings from. That's what I play things like Animal Crossing for. This is a game I'm playing for the story and atmosphere and to feel disturbed, depressed etc. Much the same as watching a movie like Requiem for a Dream or a show like The Walking Dead. I'm doing it to feel negative emotions, to be shocked and disturbed. Not all art and entertainment needs to be happy and feel good. It's important to experience a wide variety of emotions IMO. Though I'm a-ok with the fact that some disagree, think life is sucky enough and don't want to consume that kind of content. Totally fine and nothing is for everyone.

 

[raduque]

I like animals. I own a dog and have owned cats, and I treat them well and love them. My dog is the biggest brat I know and she is spoiled beyond belief.

That doesn't stop me from killing dogs in a video game if they're a threat - they're not real, it's just pixels on the screen and code in the computer memory. I won't go out of my way to kill an animal that's not a threat, like the cats in Fallout 4.

Animal abuse in real life though, really sets me off. A pet is a trusting creature, and 90%+ of them are abused by their caretakers. It looks to you for love, happiness, health, and you betray it? You're disgusting.

 

[CamHostage]

Yeah, it's a weird dissonance that some things are fun to kill and some things creep you out.

The humans are the enemy though, and most games are designed to define your foe as an obstacle rather than a real person you are removing from the Earth with your violent action.

Like, The Sorrow and the dogtags in MGS3 were supposed to give you a greater sense of the reality of the world and the people who remain if you do your stealth-action job right, but even when it was stitched into the heart of the story, that Sorrow battle probably felt to most people as punishment for playing badly, and dogtags were collectibles rather then memorials. It's really hard to see videogame enemies as 'real' people, and the game typically goes out of its way to glaze over that notion.

Game abstractions are handy ways of hand-waiving away reality. Like, Monster Hunter, that's terrible hunting! If your idea of hunting is to whack repeatedly and haphazardly at a beast with a sharp stick until it finally keels over and dies screaming, you're a pretty messed up hunter. (You're also probably going to be messing up your meat... but in the game, it roasts a fine hamhock.) Because they're big dino beasts and take a bazillion hits to kill, you forget about the "Hunter" part of Monster Hunter and just focus on the "Monster" part. Or like Pokemon, if you think about it (as has been pointed out many times,) it's really creepy: you're capturing animals, trapping them in a cage, and enslaving them to fight. But the game makes them cute Snorlaxes and Bulbasaurs, and so it's just a game... now imagine the exact same game, but it was a realistic-looking animals, and you're like, "Here kitty kitty, get in 'wittle Pokeball..."

I do think that, if you step away for a bit or you lose your callouses, a game can make you feel evil. Like, I played PayDay for the first time the other day, single-player, and the first mission had me just smashing stores for a shakedown, no big deal. But then it started dropping cops in, and the only way around (I assume?) was to blast cops in the face with a shotgun in a public mall ... at that point, the veneer slipped away for me and I didn't like what the game was casually asking me to do. (If I had been playing multiplayer, probably that feeling would have skipped me because I wouldn't be focused on story, only team play, and we would have just been playing for "points" and "completion of the round".)

 

[spawn]

My wife is a vegetarian. I can confirm that an animal lover would rather kill a human than kill an animal. That is just the way they see it

 

[Stilton Disco]

I'd actually say it's a reassuring reminder that these people still have a shred of decency in them.

All media for decades has desensitised us to violence commited against people and property. Games causing zero reaction with their depiction of the gruesome deaths of our fellow man should come as no surprise because of that.

But the depiction of the deaths of innocents has stood apart from that. We almost never see harm coming to babies and animals, so when we do, we have the natural shocked reaction we should have.

We shouldn't be showing contempt for those who are unsettled by a game making the player kill a dog, we should be more concerned about the fact we're so oversaturated in the depiction of murder, that it stirs nothing in us anymore.

 

[anthraticus]

Well, animals are cool and humans are shit for the most part.

Definitely a lot easier to watch humans get mauled out.

 

[thelastword]

Because humans are cunts. Simples.

Dogs have killed people, even pregnant mothers and babies. You can't put dogs on a stand and ask why they did what they did, but humans can answer questions and be judged and punished and during such ordeals even their family members would go through emotional turbulence over the ordeal. It's time we start valuing creatures according to the proper hierarchy. There's no way any dog is to be esteemed more than a human life. Man naturally has dominion over these creatures for many reasons which are plain enough to see...

 

[nyr88nyg]

Those same type couldn’t give less of a shit about all the people murdered daily. As long as it’s not by a cop it’s ok!

 

[Moogle11]

To add to my earlier post, I'd put it this way.

I have no qualms with killing aggressive dogs in games that attack the shit out of you. Like the zombie dogs in RE. That's just like I have no problem killing evil human enemies in games.

But I do get a bit bothered by killing random, innocent animals in games. Just like I didn't shoot anyone in that airport terrorist scene in whichever CoD game last gen (MW2?), don't enjoy games like GTA where you play as a bad guy and can kill all kinds of random people etc.

The context is what matters for me, more than the animal/human divide. I need a reason to kill whatever--namely self defense and that they're vicious/evil enemies. So people that are ok killing evil humans, but not vicious dogs attacking you or whatever have odd views to me, but I get being off put by random, "unjustified" violence toward any type of living thing.

That said, I also get some of the discomfort in TLOU2 as it's supposed to make you feel bad. That's why human enemies react and cry when you kill their friends, that dogs whimper when they die when you stab them. Taking a life isn't supposed to feel good even when it's "justified."

 

[Xplainin]

The same people who think late term abortion is a ok because its just a bundle of cells, would have you executed if you took some eggs out of a birds nest and smashed them, killing the babies inside.

There is a section of society that hate humanity.

 

[samporter]

What I think is ironic is the people who claim to feel empathy for their fellow man will conveniently ignore inhumane treatment/conditions of people in third world countries just so they can buy the latest gadgets. They post nonsense about how bad the system is while perfectly enjoying their safety/comfort from their safespaces. Such hyprocritical stances are the result of a first world problem more than anything deeper.