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Does anyone else find the graphics obsession on NeoGAF strange?

Do we obsess over game visuals too much?

  • No! I loooove graphics!

  • Yes! Gameplay is king!

  • I'm in the middle! Graphics are just easier to talk about!

Results are only viewable after voting.
It's weird to me too. I can understand when new hardware is coming you might go "hey, look at the pretty graphics", but I don't get how people don't get tired of talking about that after like...a day. Especially since they're not usually talking about art style, just numbers. number of pixels, number of frames per second. Maybe some bells and whistles like ray tracing that will never be noticed during actual gameplay. You even get people saying with no irony "game x is better than game y because it does more frames per second".

"But it's an enthusiast forum." - Okay...so you'd think we'd be having more in-depth discussions about game design, which is what makes games what they are. Game design is a more complex topic that doesn't lend itself to surface-level observation like graphics do, which is why I'd expect to see graphics being more of a "casual" talking point.
 
I like graphics as much as the next guy but at style men's more to me. In the end as long as the game is easy on the eyes it doesn't need to blow my mind. It is the easiest topic to discuss though and represents a system to a degree
 
Men_in_Boxes said:
Which theoretical next gen console would you be more excited about?

Next gen visuals with last gen gameplay.

Next gen gameplay with last gen visuals.

I know it's not exactly one or the other, but I'm firmly in the second camp.
Click to expand...

next gen visuals with last gen gameplay. I don't really expect gameplay to change that much for the most part. Maybe if the controller was dramatically different would they adjust the gameplay in some of these games.
 
For me, graphics come at nearly the bottom of the list. More important are gameplay, story, controls, fun factor... I could go on. But this is coming from a guy that still regularly plays PS1 and PS2 games, so take it for what it's worth.
 
This was a thought I was having when we were all watching the Halo Infinite reveal in summer. Everyone was justifiably criticizing the visuals, but what I found curious was how some seemed genuinely happy with the gameplay presented in those eight minutes. It struck me as strange because what they showed didn't even meet or exceed Halo 1 on the AI front, how did that leave a good impression on anyone?

I've noticed a similar lack of progress with gameplay in practically all the other game reveals, the coming generation has really disappointed me so far as a result. I want new experiences, not just a slightly nicer coat of paint on the same games we've been playing over the last 10-20 years. Where are those extra layers of AI behavior trees? The improved use of physics in stage design/interaction? More prominent integration of light/sound in enemy/stage interaction and traversal? The merger of genres that previous generations couldn't quite pull off? Etc.

I'm in the graphics whore camp and I'm all for that 4K/60fps+/raytracing push, but if that's all anyone is talking about then that's where developers will place their focus. Risk aversion from the major devs is higher than ever so they need to know there's a market for their ideas and I'm not sure I'd get that impression from their perspective today.
 
Its probably due to a combination of factors.
First the obsession with the idea that games are some sort of interactive movies, thus the need to look like one.
Then there's also all the drooling over new tech people tend to have in these sorts of medium.
There's also the fact its an easy target to make comparisons when waging console wars.
 
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Men_in_Boxes said:
I know I'm the odd man out here, but I wanted to see just how alone I actually was. It seems like the hot threads are almost always about graphics in some way.

The story of Halo Infinite is Craig, and not the uninspired 8 minute gameplay we saw in July. Gameplay that, IMO, could have largely been replicated on the OG 2001 XBox...

We're talking about RDNA 1.5 vs RDNA 2.5, VRS, and the frame rates + resolutions of PS4/XBO games on next gen consoles...

Ray Tracing!...

Digital Foundary is a household name on NeoGAF and their job is literally to tell us differences that the naked eye can't see...

A gussied up PS3 game is the "killer app" of the next gen launches...

Why are visuals such a prevalent talking point here? Is it because there's typically a clear winner/loser when it comes to these topics or is it because we legitimately value high fidelity graphics over the other aspects of game design?

Why isn't discussion framed around Sid Meier's philosophy?

EUTb-vmWAAAoi6Y.jpg
Click to expand...
They've gotta progress in lockstep... ie don't want 2020 advancements in AI and complexity displayed in pong level image quality. We can and should expect cutting edge improvements in both. Sure, nostalgia is great with black and white silent films, but you'd be crazy not to respect the developments in IMAX presentations. Progress is good....unless you're a Luddite
 
I stopped caring about graphics differences when I started to need a website to told me where to watch to see what's different between two versions of the same game.

I love "graphics", but not in a common way like "high res textures" or things like that, I want devs to do meaningful things with the hardware power. For example I loved how live and interactive was Hyrule in BOTW or the Bureau in Control, but I found so boring and "fake" the beautiful graphics of Gears 5.

I hope this gen devs starts to use power in ways that help gameplay, because AAA games feels always the same since X360/PS3 era in most cases. I want them to try things that could have not been possible before, not just double the resolution and framerate. Damn, games like Red Faction or Half Life 2 did wonderful things with hardware ages ago, but now every studio is afraid to experiment because one flop is enough to be fucked. Luckily indies exists.
 
Game design isn't really limited by hardware anymore.

good gameplay is a pretty ambiguous metric. You can't compare 2 different games and say one has better gameplay than the other.

Gameplay can't really be judged pre-release. You need to spend 5+ hours in a game to really form an opinion.

Where graphics, you can generally say X > Y. It's an easy point of comparison, and a easy differentiator when it comes to new hardware.
 
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I find the arguing over the difference in implementation of GPU features to be asinine. Especially since there aren't even games to use to compare them yet.
 
I will tell you a seccret.

If I buy Demon's Souls at launch (probably won't) then I will definitively play on Cinematic Mode instead Performance Mode.
 
It's an easier thing to market for sure; as it's easily and readily identifiable. I voted middle because I'm mainly a person that plays certain games because I enjoy the mechanics. There are times, such is in RDR2, where the fidelity of the world really drew me in and kept me there in aww.
 
I don't understand the question. You can't have video games without the graphics, so it seems like a pretty important element to discuss. Maybe you're referring to the threads about comparing one system to another and dissect small details. I think that's just something technical to talk about, right? Like talking about cars or pc building. Why are people so obsessed with Mario or Zelda characters?
 
No, that's just the way it's always been!

Back in the 16bits consolewars it was exactly the same; raging a war over which system had best graphics, fastest movement, best sound and so on (of course it was Megadrive FTW).

Now I suddenly feel old and are facing my mortality.
 
I thinks it's silly to differentiate between gameplay and graphics. We have the Switch selling like crazy without any high fidelity games.
It boils down to: Push a button, see something exciting (I made the jump, there is the hit etc)
 
Yep... on Era as well. Most people here play on consoles so that makes it extra odd. It's like being a racing enthusiast and owning a Camry.

If you are a graphics and gaming enthusiast you play on PC first and maybe other platforms later for an exclusive game here and there.
 
Gameplay isn't being as innovated as quickly as graphics are. We're kind of in a stagnation period of open world checklist games.

But if only gameplay mattered then why buy a new console? Why upgrade your PC? I'd be happy playing Doom and Mario World the rest of my life.
 
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I think people go overboard with graphics but at the same time with the next gen consoles theres isn't much else to talk about until we get our hands on the game.
 
If you are talking about n general, then its a fair point about gameplay. But brand new consoles are about to launch, a new generation is about to start, so of course graphics are high on the agenda.
 
Men_in_Boxes said:
But why not talk that focuses on game mechanics instead?
Click to expand...

? Who says no where on the forum we talk about that? Whats with this "instead"? We can't fucking talk about both suddenly? Its not as if people are out here buying games and then looking at them and never actually playing them....

Men_in_Boxes said:
I don't think it's unique to NeoGAF.
Click to expand...

Yet your thread specifically states "Neogaf".

So I don't get what all the fuss is about. No one is stopping you from making a thread to talk about gameplay. Don't worry about what others talk about. Free will, we are allowed to do that you know.
 
My game of the generation was probably Inside. I agree op and find it especially odd considering the amount of "exclusives" talk here as well. I find most exclusives to be quite lacking from a gameplay standpoint.
 
My preference is Gameplay > Performance > Graphics.

Story, Cinematics, Voice Acting mean nothing to me - I just smash the skip button in those parts.
 
Personally I focus on graphics because I feel gameplay is very similar since almost 20 years.

I play since Pong (I'm 46), and the last time gameplay made a real change for me was with the transition from 2D to 3D in the Psone era. Since then, I only see revisions of those ideas but with better graphics.
 
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Jedi Fallen Order was very unimpressive visually to me until I played it in 4K with TAA + Sharpening. 1080p was too aliased and adding TAA removed all the fine detail in the textures, which was blurred to begin with. 4K was great but quite aliased and adding TAA still removed too much detail from textures.

At first I was really enjoying the metroidvania aspect of it, and the nice attention to detail on animation in the environment but the landscapes didn't wow me and it looked really muddy and just okay like tons of people were saying. Then I added sharpening and it really made it sing, suddenly I could see all the texture detail miles away and there was no aliasing at all to distract the eye.

After this I stopped to look at each big vista for at least a few minutes, absolutely beautiful work in that game + the HDR was brilliant as well. The game was impossible to run at locked 60 fps at 1440p without a RTX 2080+, even with a few settings down from max which did affect the DoF quality quite a bit at 4K, among other things. So I gave up and locked 30hz and I'm so glad I did.

I would love to see that game at 4K60, its probably much better feeling ofc.
 
I think that graphics discussion is absolutely valid. It's just one part of a multifaceted hobby. Same with frame rate, industry shenanigans, or people that enjoy certain genres of games. Part of the fun of gaming is the meta discussion of how we obtain, modify, and enjoy games, as well as gaming in culture and how it affects our lives.
 
Given how the majority are console players in here, then yes I kinda find it weird to be obsessed with graphics while playing on an inferior platform.
 
I have a theory that the older you are the more you care about graphics.

It is a big deal today obviously - but the leaps we were taking in the late 90's and early 2000's were so mind-blowing - I don't believe they can really be appreciated by someone who was just born into incredible graphics - like my kid!
 
I've been primarily gaming on Nintendo and PC since the beginning of time.

In other words, I expect both gameplay and graphics. I'm often annoyed by having to choose one or the other.
 
I mean, most of the time the newer games don't really have different gameplay elements, its more of the same but with better looking graphics. When we do actually get games that try something different, I think a healthy amount of discussion was made.
 
Not strange at all. Graphics are one of the staples of this hobby. Not only that, it is one of the easiest parts of a game to enjoy. You don't have to be a great player to be able to appreciate good graphics. They are an aspect of a game that is objective (despite some people really trying hard to ignore it).

If it was all about gameplay, the only thing we would ever need are games like Mario Maker.

Gameplay is cool and the advancement is evident when going back and playing say MGS after playing MGS2 and above but refining those mechanics takes time. It's much easier to increase poly count and texture resolution than figuring out something like Bloodborne.
 
It's 2020 where the hardware and game engines available leave no excuse for not having good graphics. Too often "art style" is being thrown around in place of "shit graphics" just to be nice to the developer.

It's 2020 and good graphics is assumed and good gameplay is expected.
 
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I'm in the middle. I could care less about Rey Tracing, Kylo Tracing.... Whatever.

I like pretty and colorful crap like this.

Xf9pYaM.jpg


But hey if people are concerned about how realistic someone looks, more power to them.

I mean I have absolutely no interest in TLOU but damn if that games doesn't walk off with some kind of technical award. We're nearing photo-realistic characters and environments that can be interacted with.

By the time Playstation 8 rolls around, you won't be able to tell the difference between real and computer generated. Again, I don't mean cutscenes. I mean actual in-game, in-engine fully interactive.

At one point, our universe or prior, older universes didn't look as good until whoever or whatever designed it decided to add photons (or whatever the equivalent of Ray Tracing is in our current physical and inhabitable universe is called) and neutrons and whatever else.

Meanwhile, most Japanese games will still look like weeb shit and I'll be as happy as a pig in shit playing a Playstation 2 game.
 
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Graphics have always been the defining point of these new consoles. If it was only about gameplay, we'd still be cool with ps2.
 
As someone who used to upgrade GPUs every year in my 20s for the next graphical fix, I'll just say that I'm satisfied with where we are at graphically these days. It's a combination of getting older, game mechanics being sacrificed for the sake of grpahics and graphical leaps not being as profound. The days of being blown away by graphical tech are gone for me. I've been saying since late in the PS3/X360 generation that I would be happy with the graphical fidelity found in those titles but with better resolutions, framerates and anti-aliasing techniques. There is probably a heft dose of rose tinted glasses in that statement, but aesthetic aside, nothing really blows me away anymore.
 
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I like beautiful visuals as much as the next guy but most people in NeoGAF care waay too about the tech behind graphics and most popular topics here are all about tech talks which I personally I find very boring.

I personally find designs behind games far more interesting discussion:



But even if you do make topics about game designs it just get buried because in NeoGAF graphics has bigger value.
 
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