-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Does anyone REALLY believe the best of gaming is behind us?
- Thread starter ronito
- Start date
- Status
Blue Geezer
Member
Kintaro said:
i concur totally with this statement.
the days of wondering into your local (tiny) games shop and taking a risk on buying a game you hadnt heard of but the guy behind the counter said was great and finding out it was secret of mana one of my favourite games ever is long over for me.
i blame the internet
ForzaItalia
Banned
Blue Geezer said:i concur totally with this statement.
the days of wondering into your local (tiny) games shop and taking a risk on buying a game you hadnt heard of but the guy behind the counter said was great and finding out it was secret of mana one of my favourite games ever is long over for me.
i blame the internet
I wonder of The Amish say the same thing whenever they walk into a lighting store.....
True, and it had better add the Dutch.Deku said:First there will be Civ XP 2 and its already in the works
Aside from that though, I believe it won't bring earthshattering changes, the add-ons never really do. For those, we'll have to wait for Civilization V, which when released, will undoubtedly be the pinnacle of gaming for years to come (in my eyes anyway
)
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
Tsubaki said:
Preferring older gaming is fine. Thinking modern gaming sucks is totally different, and is really based on either ignorance or an automatic, prejudiced dismissal of modern games.
replicashooter
Banned
Himuro said:
When you get down to it, what it uses and doesn't is irrelevant. It's fun.
Himuro said:
Why does every pro something statement on this place always have a standard form rebuttal similar to yours?
With AI the way it is these days you could write a script to fully automate this forums posts and responses and noone could tell the difference.
Gaming will alway imporve, becaus technology is an enabler, and it allows more creative games to be, made. when the graphical fidelity of a gaming is at a photo relistic level. it think that gaming will begin it's transform into a solid, developing enviroment, because when all game look as good as the real world, the only way survuive is to innovate.
i also think that relativity has so mush to do with the perception of quality. because when you compare a new game to the feeling you got when you played (*16-bit game here*)when you were 6 to feeling tht you just got, it simply dosnt complar, bceause when you were 6 you were a goddamn idiot, and were entertainer by ****ing Blue's Clues
i also think that relativity has so mush to do with the perception of quality. because when you compare a new game to the feeling you got when you played (*16-bit game here*)when you were 6 to feeling tht you just got, it simply dosnt complar, bceause when you were 6 you were a goddamn idiot, and were entertainer by ****ing Blue's Clues
replicashooter
Banned
Himuro said:
Yup.
replicashooter
Banned
Himuro said:
See people, the AI software has reached the "does not compute point".
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
It's obvious that movies peaked with Gone with the wind.... it's been downhill ever since.
I don't think the best of gaming is over, but I do enjoy 2D games more than 3D ones. Games are probably better now than ever. However, the older I get, the less huge, interactive 3D environments appeal to me.ronito said:
I loved 3D action/fps games five years ago, but they seem daunting now, and I don't have enough energy or time to devote to gaming to overcome that.
(That said, 3D is an undeniable godsend for vehicle-based games.)
Edit: By the way, movies as a performance/storytelling medium did peak between the 40s and 60s... Hitchcock, Bogart, etc. Movies as visual art are still getting better, though.
Himuro said:
Whew. Take a chill pill bud. For real. No need to get worked up. Wanna know who thought gaming would always be pure? Every single one of us who played games as a kid, with the excitement that comes with being one. You know gaming was pure when you would play even the shittiest of games, and enjoy the hell out of it (you people reading this know who you are).
When you opened up your copy of EGM, Gamefan, Nintendo Power, or Computer Gaming (was called something like that) and read that sumbitch cover to cover with a grin on your face looking at the new hotness in 8/12/32/64/128 bit gaming, without your blood pressure SKYROCKETING because something was reviewed low? It was pure.
When we sit here on these forums and bitch about textures, polygons, lack of dolby digital, shitty FMVs, "bad art," level design, battle scenerios, writing, lack of extras on game releases, podcasts, press shows, sales figures, and other such pointless bullshit... gaming is no longer pure (for you). Especially when I can sit and look at even some of the "average" looking games out there today and think to myself "I never thought I'd ever see graphics like that."
So yeah, call me dim witted if you like for, back in the day, thinking gaming would always be pure. But hey, I was a kid, and it was freakin' awesome.
ronito said:
These are the lapsed gamers.
I will tell you the difference:
Back then, games were actually based on artistic things. Ultima was based on Lord of the Rings and Buddhism. Super Mario Brothers was inspired by Alice in Wonderland. The original Warcraft was opened up by a remixed Holst's "Mars". Gyruss was mixed to Bach. Zelda was the mythical "coming of age" story of boy growing into man. Games like Civilization or its predecessors were inspired by history itself.
Today, games are based off of previous games. A new platform game is based off of old platform games. A new RTS is based off of an old RTS. A new FPS is based off of an old FPS. So on and so forth...
Today, games are influenced by comic books. They have totally gone anime with absurd illustrations and are as shallow as the typical comic book. Today, games have the same stigma that comic books do. But it was not always this way.
There are bad games in any era. So let us compare only the good ones.
Which will outlive the other? Grand Theft Auto 3 or Super Mario Brothers 3? Ultima 7 or Oblivion? Robotron or Geometry Wars? System Shock or any other FPS?
Not all of us were kids back then. Even back in 1986, games were already well around a decade old.
If it does, it will require some serious changes to the current business model.
I despise the younger generation's emphasis of hardware as the mother of video game advancement. The greatest contraint to any video game is not the hardware but the imagination of the concept. We already had huge worlds twenty years ago. It may not have had the visualizations, but the concepts of gaming today has barely changed (with few major exceptions such as the birth of the MMORPGs).
Before, game development was controlled by designers. Today, game development is controlled by publishers.
Before, developers were involved in the business model. Today, developers are merely employees to the publisher.
Before, developers understood their markets. Today, developers don't have to since developers work for publishers instead of the other way around.
A seismic shift in game development occurred during the early nineties when publishers began to control the entire process of game development instead of the developers. I blame Wing Commander for this who shot the money for production quality to obscene levels (which everyone soon imitated). However, I think we are now reaching a new shift as production quality begins to have diminishing returns for most people can't really tell the difference with HD games and non-HD games. With huge sales of games like the Sims, Nintendogs, and Brain Age, it ought to show that concept triumphs over production quality.
If games are so great today, then why is Street Fighter 2 one of the best selling games on Xbox 360? Why is there excitement over the Virtual Console? Why do these retro games sell so well?
If games are so daring in imagination today, then why is a remake of Final Fantasy III outselling everything in Japan today?
The game industry currently is not as healthy as it appears (the number of gamers keeps decreasing with each generation lately). Unless new concepts are allowed that surprise consumers, all we can do is just sit around and watch gaming slowly decline and die.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I think it's funny how people say "you can never be a kid anymore" when what they really mean is they miss a time when they didn't heap their endless criticisms and biases upon gaming.
The secret to enjoying gaming is: Don't be a hating troll.
That's a message 99% of GAF needs to learn or they'll bitch about games until they die.
The secret to enjoying gaming is: Don't be a hating troll.
That's a message 99% of GAF needs to learn or they'll bitch about games until they die.
replicashooter
Banned
Himuro said:Yep.
If you have prejudices and stuff, just let it go and you can enjoy a lot of games.
Wise words
Buffy4ever
Banned
jeremy1456 said:
PlayStation 1 area had more RPG then the Super Nintendo unless you lived in Japan. There were so many RPG that did not come to the US. I think the PlayStation 2 has better RPG than the Super Nintendo
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
sonic4ever said:
Wha.....?
I guess Himuro's right.... I'm in it for the story based RPGs.... and PS2 is a wasteland in this respect (we have fruity anime FFs on the left and SMT games on the right)
soul creator
Member
Lapsed said:
I think you're confusing "gaming wasn't necessarily better in the 80's" with "I hate old games". Those two concepts aren't necessarily the same. Street Fighter II sells a lot on the 360 because it's a great game, and it now has online play for $10. That doesn't mean I want to go back to the days of derivative side scrollers and fighters that were so prevalent in the 16-bit days. And you make it sound like games like GRAW, Oblivion, and Fight Night are *not* somehow selling just as much and more than Street Fighter 2 on 360.
Final Fantasy III (I assume) is considered a classic great game also, and it seems to be remade with some great new graphics on the most popular handheld in Japan, so that's why it sells. Final Fantasy XII and Dragon Quest 8 still sold a crapload of copies there too, so how does that fit into your theory?
Just because my dad played a few games of Pac-Man in the 80's but doesn't play games now, hardly means the industry is in desperate trouble. Does gaming still have a lot of improvements to be made and struggles to overcome? Of course. Should gaming try to reach a wider audience? I think so, and I have no problem with that. But for all the folks who may have quit gaming in in the 80's, there have been new folks who started on the Playstation, or on the DS, or maybe with MMO's and The Sims on the PC. Or even just play Tetris on their cell phones.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Himuro said:
No, actually we disagree
Obviously PS2 has more RPGs..... but not one of them I loved. SNES had 3 or 4 I loved... that's all there is to it, really... it's not about nostalgia, being hard to pelase, etc.... there have just been no RPGs for PS2 that ever captured my imagination...
Here's where I pray to FFXII for guidance!
You forgot the 2 Lufia games for SNES, and TO didn't come out here until it was ported to PS1. Also BoF 3 was on PS1.Himuro said:
Anyway, that guy who posted about "the best of rpgs being behind us" is crazy. JRPGs haven't really fallen off the map too much, and people are starting to pay attention to the always-been-superior western RPGs that manage to combine story AND gameplay into one great package.
NES = Devs would explore new ideas and take risks in hopes of finding that next "big hit". As a result, they created a ton of hits.
SNES/Genesis/CD = Devs used the increased power of hardware to explore new ideas(Pseudo 3D games(starfox, vectorman, etc), Motion Capture(Mortal Kombat, PitFighter, Slam City), pre-rendered sprites(donkey kong country, super mario rpg))
SegaSaturn/PSOne/N64 = Devs used the increased power to realize real-time 3D games. 3D graphics turned out to be deeeeeep and not gimmicks like 3D movies. A SHIPLOAD of new ideas were formulated as devs explored the possibilities of 3D games. At the same time, this explosion of exciting new(Resident Evil, Crash Bandicoot, FFVII, Tekken, Mario64, Panzer Dragoon, Tomb Raider(the first one really rocked hard), etc.) games propelled gaming into the mainstream.
That's pretty much where the innovation/evolution trail for console gaming ends for me. Everything on consoles after that time(PSOne era) felt like something I have played before, with a few exceptions(Katamari, Seaman, Viewtiful Joe, Shenmue, Resident Evil 4) of course.
IMHO, console gaming needs something new that: 1)Can add to gaming as much as 3D graphics did during the PSOne era. & 2)Is relatively unexplored as far as gaming is concerned.
I'm hoping that new something is Motion Control. Sony and MS looking to that direction are good signs that it might be. Though, like the DS, it's going to be a while before we can see how deep the Motion Control rabbit-hole goes because of devs who will just shoehorn it into current games.
Though at least attempts to change the way we play games are being made. Controllers have been practically the same since ******* Atari with the exception of analog sticks and vibration. A overhaul is LOOOOOONG overdue.
SNES/Genesis/CD = Devs used the increased power of hardware to explore new ideas(Pseudo 3D games(starfox, vectorman, etc), Motion Capture(Mortal Kombat, PitFighter, Slam City), pre-rendered sprites(donkey kong country, super mario rpg))
SegaSaturn/PSOne/N64 = Devs used the increased power to realize real-time 3D games. 3D graphics turned out to be deeeeeep and not gimmicks like 3D movies. A SHIPLOAD of new ideas were formulated as devs explored the possibilities of 3D games. At the same time, this explosion of exciting new(Resident Evil, Crash Bandicoot, FFVII, Tekken, Mario64, Panzer Dragoon, Tomb Raider(the first one really rocked hard), etc.) games propelled gaming into the mainstream.
That's pretty much where the innovation/evolution trail for console gaming ends for me. Everything on consoles after that time(PSOne era) felt like something I have played before, with a few exceptions(Katamari, Seaman, Viewtiful Joe, Shenmue, Resident Evil 4) of course.
IMHO, console gaming needs something new that: 1)Can add to gaming as much as 3D graphics did during the PSOne era. & 2)Is relatively unexplored as far as gaming is concerned.
I'm hoping that new something is Motion Control. Sony and MS looking to that direction are good signs that it might be. Though, like the DS, it's going to be a while before we can see how deep the Motion Control rabbit-hole goes because of devs who will just shoehorn it into current games.
Though at least attempts to change the way we play games are being made. Controllers have been practically the same since ******* Atari with the exception of analog sticks and vibration. A overhaul is LOOOOOONG overdue.
No, but there is a hell of lot more crap around nowadays.
also you can argue things like the death of small indie teams working out their garage, games getting so complicated+expensive to make that they have less content (average game length has shrunk drastically), big publishers like EA having monopolies on certain franchises.
one thing that does suck- patches. I have an old PC gamer magazine from '98 talking about how they're going to include a patches section on their cover CD (this was before broadband. there are letters complaining about Sin's "whopping" 40 meg patch) as this "patching phonomonon" seems to be happening more frequently. back then patching was an admission your game was broken, that it needed fixing. now it's standard. people release 80% complete games and fix it on the fly (or not at all depending on sales).
also you can argue things like the death of small indie teams working out their garage, games getting so complicated+expensive to make that they have less content (average game length has shrunk drastically), big publishers like EA having monopolies on certain franchises.
one thing that does suck- patches. I have an old PC gamer magazine from '98 talking about how they're going to include a patches section on their cover CD (this was before broadband. there are letters complaining about Sin's "whopping" 40 meg patch) as this "patching phonomonon" seems to be happening more frequently. back then patching was an admission your game was broken, that it needed fixing. now it's standard. people release 80% complete games and fix it on the fly (or not at all depending on sales).
Link1110
Member
Maybe I'm just too used to jrpgs, but I just can't get into western RPGs. They're always trying to be way too far removed from jrpgs, and that makes them hard to play for me. I kinda liked KotOR, until I saw the battle system, but if that were like FFX's or something, I'd have loved it.
Wow. I am astounded at how much nostalgia there is going around. And everyone saying "No more innovation." Do you guys really think that the masses are just going to sit idly by playing the same games over and over? Profits favor innovation. Sure there's drek out there. But that was more true about the Atari 2600 than any console since. Fact is with companies vying for the same market space the ones that deliver something new will be the ones that get rewarded especially in a few years from now when everyone sick of Generic FPS 13, KAWAII JRPG 24.
I sincerely believe that companies that can create fresh new gaming experiences will be the ones rewarded. No industry has ever kept itself in the black by doing the same thing over and over and over. Videogaming is no different.
I sincerely believe that companies that can create fresh new gaming experiences will be the ones rewarded. No industry has ever kept itself in the black by doing the same thing over and over and over. Videogaming is no different.
jeremy1456
Junior Member
firex said:
While Western RPGs are steadily getting better, they're still crap.
I mean seriously, as far as storyline and gameplay goes it feels like the sub-genre is at least 10 years behind Jrpgs. They boast tons of options and customization, but I've not yet found one that isn't completely limited and boring.
jeremy1456
Junior Member
Himuro said:
Here are all the non-import, must-have 16-bit RPGs, imo:
Final Fantasy IV
Final Fantasy VI
Chrono Trigger
Lufia
Lufia II
Breath of Fire
Breath of Fire II
Super Mario RPG
Shining Force
Shining Force II
Phantasy Star II
Phantasy Star III
Phantasy Star IV
Illusion of Gaia
Soul Blazer
Secret of Mana
Actraiser
As compared to the must-haves of this current generation, again, imo:
Dragon Quest VIII
Skies of Arcadia
Tales of Symphonia
Baten Kaitos
Suikoden V
Final Fantasy has really taken a downfall this generation, and in all honesty, I'm not expecting much from XII.
It's pretty clear that the best days are behind us. I was just thinking today how great it was when games had tighter, more predictable control setups......most 3D games end up all loose, and force you into a great deal of camera wrangling.
Old-school era had a lot of mediocre platformers and fighters, but they were all relatively engaging to me. Mediocre FPS, mediocre "squad-based" anything, and mediocre free-roamers are just awful though....and that's what seems to be choking the market (along with yearly sequels to anything remotely successful).
Xbox Live Marketplace (and its other-system equivalents) threatens to screw up the very way that games are designed, bought and sold....hard to get excited about that.
Old-school era had a lot of mediocre platformers and fighters, but they were all relatively engaging to me. Mediocre FPS, mediocre "squad-based" anything, and mediocre free-roamers are just awful though....and that's what seems to be choking the market (along with yearly sequels to anything remotely successful).
Xbox Live Marketplace (and its other-system equivalents) threatens to screw up the very way that games are designed, bought and sold....hard to get excited about that.
jeremy1456
Junior Member
Himuro said:
While I admit that I haven't played Oblivion (I plan to purchase rent it soon) it would have to be drastically different from Morrowind to be even worthy of a glance.
krypt0nian
Banned
The best of gaming is whatever I'm enjoying right now.
**** nostalgia.
**** nostalgia.
jeremy1456
Junior Member
Himuro said:
I did, I found it bland, uninspired, and boring.
Haven't the problems with XBL Marketplace (and microtransactions in general) already been discussed to death? Everything seems overpriced, and games that are already $10 more expensive are now essentially designed to have missing content (to be sold at a later date).Himuro said:
I preferred Nocturne to DDS, but I cannot comprehend how it can be called that while you consider Suikoden V a must have. I liked Suikoden V, but it is far more "bland" than DDS.jeremy1456 said:
Nostalgia is weird. I think that I was too young to really appreciate the old games I had back when they were new. I have a copy of Metroid, for example, that looks like it was touched once before it was put away for years. I played games when I was younger because that's what I had. I play games now because I really love gaming, and with each new generation, I only get reminded of why.
jeremy1456
Junior Member
Error2k4 said:
Symphonia may have been uninspired for sure, and bland i'll admit, but it was FUN.
Play a game because it's fun? That's unheard of!
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Himuro said:
NOOOOOOO!!!!
I guess I need gameplay to go with my good storyline.Himuro said:
I haven't played DQVIII yet... maybe that's one of the good ones.
theREBELins
Banned
krypt0nian said:
Brilliantly phrased.
- Status
Similar threads
- Poll