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[LittleBusters]

AMOLED is superior tech.

 

[Wonko_C]

Here's what you can do:

If you are using the Snes9X core (which is good), there is a setting in the core options called "Blaarg NTSC filter". There are a few options like composite, try enabling the filter from there instead of a shader.

Then use a scanline shader with good sharpness like CRT geom.

However, i don't think you need to enable composite mode in the core options. Just make sure bilinear filtering is enabled in the general"video" options. Then, whatever shader you use it should be good enough.

Tried it a bit... that's what I was looking for! Going to experiment with other CRT shaders like CRT lottes, Caligari, etc. and see how they look. Thanks!

 

[nkarafo]

Tried it a bit... that's what I was looking for! Going to experiment with other CRT shaders like CRT lottes, Caligari, etc. and see how they look. Thanks!

Lottes is good for arcade games as the effect is almost identical to my CRT arcade monitor. But it needs some adjustments so it can glow a bit more at white areas.

 

[theclaw135]

Here's Donkey Kong Country as RAW pixels, without any kind of filtering:

And here's the same game on RetroArch + a good shader:

Look how rounded and smoother everything is. I simply can't believe there's a single soul who would prefer to play the game as raw pixels....

And yes, it's a little darker due to the scanlines but that's easily fixable by adjusting the gamma or brightness in the shader. Personally, i prefer the slightly darker look myself for this game.

Wowsers! That image is clearly closer to what the artists would've wanted.
Typical NTSC riddled with color bleeding and dot crawl is just as wrong as the blockiness.

 

[Craig234]

In the 90's, I treated myself to a top of the line NEC 21" CRT for $2300. I used it for years leaving it on all the time until one day I said, "I'll power it off for the night." It never turned on after that.

I replaced it with the later and perhaps new best CRT, the Sony 900whatever, until it also wouldn't power on. By then, CRT's were available.

My issue with this is, it's basically impossible to get the CRT's repaired. I found a 'specialty' monitor repaid store in the bay area, and they said, no.

I couldn't stand to get rid of them. For over 10 years I have lost use of my recliner the NEC sits in, and the Sony still fills my desk behind my LCD.

I know, I'm supposed to haul them (something like 100 pounds each?) to a recycler and trash them, and it's not easy to do that.

Not that I'm not happy with my latest, a $750 Acer 34" ultra-wide. I also watch old games on it, and think, I don't remember thinking they looked so bad on the CRT? So the thread topic is of some interest. Try playing, say, Diablo II on a modern LCD versus a CRT...

 

[MarkMe2525]

I personally prefer the sharper pixels.

From the artists point of view it wasn't necessarily what they wanted it to look like, but rather a way to work around the limitations of the technology and save on performance.

That means creative solutions were what was possible to make, not some purist form of art that's supposed to look exactly like that. "You're playing it wrong" fuck that.

Same for early 3D games. They look much much better on higher resolutions, even if some techniques don't translate 100% to current tech...

Doesn't this just mean though that by using those tricks.. they ended it to look the way it did on a crt. If they took into account the crt scan line timing and spacing to create an image and then you display it on an lcd panel.. you are not seeing the image as the creator intended.

 

[Drell]

I'm always amazed at how low rez old pre-rendered cg stuff looks amazing on CRT vs how aweful it looks in raw pixel format. That's the case for the DKC trilogy and PSX FF trilogy.

 

[nkarafo]

I'm always amazed at how low rez old pre-rendered cg stuff looks amazing on CRT vs how aweful it looks in raw pixel format. That's the case for the DKC trilogy and PSX FF trilogy.

I hear a lot how old games with prerendered sprites haven't aged well. And im playing games like DKC2 on SNES or Toy Story on the Mega Drive and i wonder, what the hell are they talking about. Then i look at the same games in some other setups without filters and i'm like "Oh, that's why".

 

[mcjmetroid]

This bothers me a lot ya. When I think of PS2 and Gamecube games etc.
Some of it may be nostalgia but a lot of it isn't.

 

[93xfan]

My first HDTV was a 30” 150lbs monstrosity that eventually had horrible color bleed and geometry issues.

Now I’m on a ten year old Panasonic plasma and am perfectly pleased and would never go back to CRT.

As far as getting games to look like they used to, I really enjoy the filter in the Castlevania collection, as well as the one in the NES and SNES Switch apps.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

In the 90's, I treated myself to a top of the line NEC 21" CRT for $2300. I used it for years leaving it on all the time until one day I said, "I'll power it off for the night." It never turned on after that.

I replaced it with the later and perhaps new best CRT, the Sony 900whatever, until it also wouldn't power on. By then, CRT's were available.

My issue with this is, it's basically impossible to get the CRT's repaired. I found a 'specialty' monitor repaid store in the bay area, and they said, no.

I couldn't stand to get rid of them. For over 10 years I have lost use of my recliner the NEC sits in, and the Sony still fills my desk behind my LCD.

I know, I'm supposed to haul them (something like 100 pounds each?) to a recycler and trash them, and it's not easy to do that.

Not that I'm not happy with my latest, a $750 Acer 34" ultra-wide. I also watch old games on it, and think, I don't remember thinking they looked so bad on the CRT? So the thread topic is of some interest. Try playing, say, Diablo II on a modern LCD versus a CRT...

I love it to death, but Diablo II is a geniunely ugly game and you see the rough development process on the screen as you play it.

It just is more clearly ugly on modern displays than it was on the low-resolution blurry computer monitors of yesteryear.

 

[nkarafo]

I love it to death, but Diablo II is a geniunely ugly game and you see the rough development process on the screen as you play it.

It just is more clearly ugly on modern displays than it was on the low-resolution blurry computer monitors of yesteryear.

Computer monitors in 2001 weren't blurry or low resolution. The game itself had a 800x600 maximum resolution though iirc. It still looked good enough because the smaller size of the monitors meant it was kinda zoomed out (mine was 17 inch).

 

[Rat Rage]

It doesn't bother me AT ALL!

WHY?

Because I own (more than one) good old CRT TV. #CRTmasterrace

 

[kurisu_1974]

I've been playing Konami games on an MSX2 with a Philips monitor and a SCART cable my whole youth. RF is just awful.

 

[nkarafo]

I've been playing Konami games on an MSX2 with a Philips monitor and a SCART cable my whole youth. RF is just awful.

RF is awful yes. I don't think anyone here is advocating for it. The argument is about composite.

 

[CuteFaceJay]

These games were designed for Tube TV's of the time, Trying to replicate that 100 is a bit tricky.

 

[kurisu_1974]

RF is awful yes. I don't think anyone here is advocating for it. The argument is about composite.

You are right, composite is awful too. Have you ever played an 2D 8-bit game on an actual monitor with RGB?

 

[nkarafo]

You are right, composite is awful too. Have you ever played an 2D 8-bit game on an actual monitor with RGB?

Yes, i have played old 2D games in various monitors and TVs with all kinds of connections.

The issue with the pin-sharp RGB is that you lose some intended effects and extra colors that are created when using composite. Dithering is there by the artists so it can be blended into new colors and transparencies, we are not supposed to see a bunch of lines and dot patterns.

So it's a trade-off between sharp graphics and extra effects and colors that the developers intended you to see. I'm not a huge fan of being able to tell the pixels apart so i prefer to play anything before the 6th generation of consoles on an average CRT + composite. Or use shaders.

 

[kurisu_1974]

So you think the second part of that video I posted looks better?

I'm calling nostalgia goggles!

 

[nkarafo]

So you think the second part of that video I posted looks better?

I'm calling nostalgia goggles!

Sorry, your video isn't good enough for me to draw any conclusions.

And preferring to see the graphics as the artists intended has nothing to do with nostalgia.

And maybe on a smaller 14 inch monitor i would have no issue looking at the raw pixels since the image is more "zoomed out" but on a big screen there is no way for me to prefer those huge, sharp pixels.

 

[Rolling_Start]

I am not questioning this.

The differences between image rendering on a CRT and a digital screen also play a very important role in how older games are displayed. RGB on a CRT is unquestionably different from how older games look when displayed on a modern TV or monitor, be it through an original console via RGB/component or modern retro collections via HDMI. And yes, the difference between the fuzzy RF/composite signal and RGB is striking, especially in color. Colors just pop in RGB where they're very muted in RF/composite. But stuff like shadow dithering just doesn't look right in RGB, and background/foreground contrast in those games could actually benefit from a less clean signal.

Well I can see there are some situations where you'd prefer a type of signal level blending / noise (effectively). Dithering is a reasonable one, though as I got used to seeing dithering on a range of machines / screens and so it never really bothered me. Plus you can still make it out on systems like the MD through svideo, even if it's less visible. I guess a certain amount of noise and signal degradation isn't unique to this - Quincunx seemed pretty destructive, and noise textures can help on low res / heavily compressed textures.

Fun anecdote: on some games the Dreamcast use two different front buffer modes. For interlaced a half height 24 bit front buffer, for VGA a full height 16-bit buffer dithered down from internally rendered 24-bit tiles to save memory. I never noticed the dither on a CRT VGA monitor, but when I used my DC via VGA on a b-bit TN LCD ... I noticed alright.

A case can also be made around the fact that while some consoles back then were indeed RGB-out compatible and official cables were made for SCART-enabled European TVs, RGB connections weren't really seriously considered in the two biggest markets for video games, i.e. America and Japan. The original Famicom didn't even have composite out and only had a RF connection, and some GameCube cables were basically region-locked (the GC S-Video cable wouldn't work on a PAL GC and the European SCART cable wouldn't work on a NTSC GC, IIRC).

I'd forgotten about the NES! Sega were way ahead of Nintendo and Sony in terms of understanding display technology (first to optimised for PAL screen height, first to support 60hz in Europe, first to support RGB, first to support progressive scan) and you make a good point about the NES that I'd overlooked.

I actually bought a 3rd party RGB scart lead for my Gamecube, btw. I'm a European type. Didn't remember they were region locked to Europe. Friggin' Nintendo, Twilight Princess looked really nice on a good CRT through RGB!

 

[Craig234]

I don't suppose anyone knows of any repair options for the CRT's I wasn't able to find talking to repair shops and manufacturers, not that shipping >100 pound monitors for repair seems practical anyway.

 

[nkarafo]

Here's a new RetroArch shader with reflections on the screen bezel:

And here's the same one without the bezel, still giving a nice 3D feel and makes the outside of the screen look like it's made of glass:

You need to see the full resolution pics in order to see the correct scanlines, otherwise they will probably look uneven.

You also need to see this shader in motion to appreciate how good the reflection effects are (link for the shader in the description):

 

[Dazrael]

I think most old 2D games look better on a crisp LCD screen, there are some exceptions, usually when it comes to those realistic sprites. No one can tell convince me SMW looks better on a CRT.

SMW totally looks better on a CRT...in RGB.