Support NeoGAF

[Xdrive05]

On my way home yesterday, I found a ViewSonic G220f in the alley down the street. The plastic rotating base was broken, which I guess is why they pitched it. Everything else on it is perfect.

TLDR; CRTs handle motion so much better than the flat screen tech that replaced them. Digital Foundry went on a jag about this a few years back, and it's actually true. And because of how you're not limited by a fixed pixel display, you can run in lower resolutions and still get an incredibly sharp and fluid image with absolutely zero ghosting.

Running it through a VGA to DisplayPort adapter that I had laying around, into my EVGA RTX 3060 12GB. It does 1600x1200@75hz and even goes much higher at 60hz. I've been running it at 1400x1050@90hz for maximum suavamente in motion. The motion even at 60hz looks obviously clearer than my Acer Predator 1080p at 240hz does.

To my surprise, a LOT of modern and recent PC games support 4:3 resolutions. Some standouts I've found so far: Doom Eternal, Metro Exodus EE, Fortnite, Forza Horizon 5, The Witcher 3 Next Gen, Cyberpunk 2027.

So Fortnite running at 1400x1050@90hz with all of the Lumen and Nanite features cranked is just amazing looking in person. It's like the monitor is a window into a tangible cartoon world that you can almost reach into, rather than having a screen door that has to shift its squares to provide motion.

Here's my kiddo going old school with Minecraft:

I know this is the nichest of niche experiments, but I'm going to ride this one out until the tube dies and goes to the great recycling center in the sky. If you ever get a chance to try one of these in _current_year, it's worth the trouble IMO.

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

No thanks. I play on my OLED with ambilight.

 

[Spukc]

use it to play snes games
and figure out how shit modern displays are

 

[amigastar]

Sounds nice. I "only" have an IPS monitor by Eizo so the delay is noticable. But i moved to flatscreens about 2006-2007.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

Based daddy

 

[nkarafo]

It's a travesty how modern technology took so many steps back when it comes to TVs and monitors. CRTs have much better motion clarity and almost zero input lag. It's been 20 years since they got replaced, so many generations of modern panels, and still they can't produce the same motion clarity, certainly not without janky tricks that cause all sorts of artifacts.

It's too bad that it's so hard to find a CRT nowadays in good shape. I have a bunch but they all have issues related to their age obviously.

Now i have a 240hz LCD monitor. At 240hz, the clarity is close (though not quite there yet) but the content also needs to run at 240fps. So i can only enjoy this motion clarity with older games.

I also have all my consoles from XBOX 360 or older, on a CRT TV. Even with the reduced detail, due to the lower res, the result is far superior than any LCD TV. I'm enjoying the graphics far more this way.

 

[Kilau]

This should be the next thing hipsters bring back since vinyl worked so well.

 

[twilo99]

Have you tried the Quake 2 remaster yet?

 

[proandrad]

Ever try an oled with bfi?

 

[rofif]

Yeah I did exactly that few years ago. Good times

 

[I_D]

I know this is the nichest of niche experiments, but I'm going to ride this one out until the tube dies and goes to the great recycling center in the sky. If you ever get a chance to try one of these in _current_year, it's worth the trouble IMO.

Presuming you'd still be using your Nvidia card, you should try custom resolutions. I haven't tried it with modern hardware, but my old CRT looked absolutely insane when downsampling, roughly 10ish years ago.

If you right-click your desktop, then select "Nvidia Control Panel," you'll be able to "Manage 3D Settings."
Make sure "DSR - Factors" is turned off.
Then select the "Change Resolution" option.
Then click "Customize" and you'll be able to create whatever pixel-scale you want.

Typically, I went for about 1.5x-2x the listed max-resolution, back in the day.
Then, when you're in-game, you'll be able to see your custom resolution on the list of other resolution-settings, like it was there all along.
Side-note: You don't want to run your desktop in this resolution, since everything will be tiny. Just select it as an option in-game, then your PC will revert to normal-resolution when you close the game.

If you're playing games more than a few years old, you should be able to run them at wildly-high resolutions, which will look fantastic on a CRT (and on other monitors, for anybody else).

 

[Hudo]

I fucking knew it before entering this thread that this was gonna be some ViewSonic CRT.

 

[eNT1TY]

Yeah that viewsonic is a killer display, i bought a black g220fb about 13 years ago through craigslist from an old photography/printing/signage company. It had a max of 2048x1536 @ 72hz if i recall but the sweet spot was 1600x1200 @ 90ish or so. I dropped like $500 on it then. Sadly the thing is in its death throes, its started 2 years ago with purple corners now the whole thing is purple. Played Dreamcast on it a lot.

 

[Chupanibre]

The one thing I don't miss from CRT is the headaches they gave me unless I put a filter over the screen.

 

[Xdrive05]

Have you tried the Quake 2 remaster yet?

I haven't, but I have tried Quake 2 RTX, and my little 3060 can push 100% resolution scale at the 1400x1050 at full 90hz with all the path tracing turn on, and that looks unbelievable! The remaster is probably similar, I'm sure.

 

[dotnotbot]

Ever try an oled with bfi?

Current-gen OLEDs have pisspoor BFI, not even 120 Hz like older gens (which still wasn't good enough)

 

[Ulysses 31]

Current-gen OLEDs have pisspoor BFI, not even 120 Hz

And that's not mentioning how it destroys the brightness.

 

[Holammer]

Samsung should make a modern CRT monitor that comes with all the old and new connectors. It would be perfect for hipsters and retro gamers, no Retrotink required.
There's a lot of potential customers in the 40-50 year old bracket with fat wallets and nostalgia wanting one.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

And that's not mentioning how it destroys the brightness.

yeah any time ive tried BFI, it demolishes brightness to unacceptable levels.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

Samsung Sony should make a modern CRT monitor that comes with all the old and new connectors

Imagine a modern Sony 24" Trinitron GDM-FW9000!!!

 

[buenoblue]

Nice. I have an old plasma in my bedroom and I hooked up my ps5 one night to play in bed and was shocked how smooth the motion was. Playing horizon forbidden West 60fps mode the game looked kinda better than my OLED downstairs lol.

I wish we could of got a 4k plasma.

 

[tr1p1ex]

so you're saying i should have built a shed in the backyard to keep all my old crt tvs and monitors in until they were fashionable again?

 

[simpatico]

I'd love to find one for a good price. LCD's are a downgrade in terms of image quality. Cheap and disposable.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

Imagine a modern Sony 24" Trinitron GDM-FW9000!!!

i actually emailed sony about this ~10 years ago when i owned an fw900 and they basically said "ok thanks dumbass".

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

i actually emailed sony about this ~10 years ago when i owned an fw900 and they basically said "ok thanks dumbass".

The whole idea of some random Sony employee in a call center or whatever opening this one rabid nerd email asking for a comeback of the CRT TV made me laugh loudly.

 

[SpiceRacz]

Older PC monitors are great, especially for retro gaming. I'm thinking about picking up a Dell 2007FPB later this evening actually. Just for retro gaming.

 

[noonjam]

did the same thing a couple years back with a 19" samsung 997df crt I found at our local ewaste drop off. in great condition as well. manufactured near the end of 2004.

Replaying older games made for 4:3 res on it are great, smooth as hell. blows my LG 27" 144hz and samsung G8 oled out of the water in that regard. but I can't bring myself to play more modern games on it because I want that widescreen.

Shame the sony FW900 are insanely priced.

 

[radewagon]

It's a travesty how modern technology took so many steps back when it comes to TVs and monitors. CRTs have much better motion clarity and almost zero input lag. It's been 20 years since they got replaced, so many generations of modern panels, and still they can't produce the same motion clarity, certainly not without janky tricks that cause all sorts of artifacts.

It's too bad that it's so hard to find a CRT nowadays in good shape. I have a bunch but they all have issues related to their age obviously.

Now i have a 240hz LCD monitor. At 240hz, the clarity is close (though not quite there yet) but the content also needs to run at 240fps. So i can only enjoy this motion clarity with older games.

I also have all my consoles from XBOX 360 or older, on a CRT TV. Even with the reduced detail, due to the lower res, the result is far superior than any LCD TV. I'm enjoying the graphics far more this way.

Look, I love my Sony Trinitron CRT with component inputs (that's currently in storage cause of course it is). Playing PS2 games on it is peak awesomeness.

HOWEVER

While those CRT's are unmatched for legacy content, it's not hard to see that new sets have made vast improvements regardless of whether they falter in a few select ways.

I mean, sure, it would be neat to see what a 4K CRT could do, but it would also weight 1 billion pounds. Modern sets, taken as a whole, sad to say, absolutely destroy CRT's.

 

[Hoddi]

To my surprise, a LOT of modern and recent PC games support 4:3 resolutions. Some standouts I've found so far: Doom Eternal, Metro Exodus EE, Fortnite, Forza Horizon 5, The Witcher 3 Next Gen, Cyberpunk 2027.

You can add Control to the list which runs with vert+ in 4:3. The added vertical space feels way better than in 16:9.

I miss 4:3 monitors. Widescreen was always a bit of a sham because they were really just cutting the top and bottom off the screen. Then they sold 4:3 back to us by calling it IMAX.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

TLDR; CRTs handle motion so much better than the flat screen tech that replaced them. Digital Foundry went on a jag about this a few years back, and it's actually true. And because of how you're not limited by a fixed pixel display, you can run in lower resolutions and still get an incredibly sharp and fluid image with absolutely zero ghosting.

Thats why good black frame insertion is a super big deal. The forthcoming RetroTINK 4K has a really excellent implementation that negates the hit-or-miss nature of a lot of TV's implementations of BFI.

 

[CGNoire]

This is the reason I still use a 1080p Plasma to play modern games on PC.
I guarantee my 4k image downsampled to 1080p on it looks way sharper detailed and higher fidelity in motion (you know the state games spend most of there time in) than any 4k tv tech does. Im only getting a modern 4k set when this baby dies. Motion Resolution 4 Life.

 

[clarky]

This should be the next thing hipsters bring back since vinyl worked so well.

Vinyl is better than FLAC, lets fight.

 

[BlackTron]

Back in the day when I cleaned out the basement of the house I used to host LAN parties. It was before the tech shift and I thought all this old monitors were just junk. Back then I had gotten most of them from Goodwill. I had my friend an IT guy come with his pickup truck and take away an entire flatbed of CRT monitors. When I think of that sight today I feel a hollow sensation in my chest and my face probably gets pale.

 

[Rentahamster]

yeah any time ive tried BFI, it demolishes brightness to unacceptable levels.

Newer BFI monitors have better brightness levels.

This monitor, for example, is decently bright and the motion clarity is great.

PRESS RELEASE: Version 2.0 of Blur Busters Approved Certification Programme, with ViewSonic XG2431 as First To Pass

[Toronto / Hamilton, Ontario, April 9th 2021] Blur Busters is pleased to announce the relaunch of Blur Busters Approved Certification Programme, Version 2.0. Blur Busters Approved is a certification programme that validates the quality of display motion on screens. For years, many LCD screens...

blurbusters.com

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Samsung should make a modern CRT monitor that comes with all the old and new connectors. It would be perfect for hipsters and retro gamers, no Retrotink required.
There's a lot of potential customers in the 40-50 year old bracket with fat wallets and nostalgia wanting one.

We discussed this a few times. Even if there were the necessary conditions to build them and a market that made it worth the hassle, the current power and eco regulations would stop the production before it started. These days even LED TVs get a F score for power consumption in Europe. A CRT TV would be like a mini coal furnace AND a diesel pickup all in one as far eco considerations go, lol.

 

[amigastar]

Vinyl is better than FLAC, lets fight.

It is but i can access my FLACs with a mouseclick and i don't need to change the vinyl all the time
And i have a nice DAC.

 

[Soodanim]

We discussed this a few times. Even if there were the necessary conditions to build them and a market that made it worth the hassle, the current power and eco regulations would stop the production before it started. These days even LED TVs get a F score for power consumption in Europe. A CRT TV would be like a mini coal furnace AND a diesel pickup all in one as far eco considerations go, lol.

How dare you kill the dream with your reasonable post.

Motion smoothness remains the holy grail of modern display tech. Especially with HDMI's implementation of VRR, we ideally need something native to the tech so that we can have the benefits of both at the same time.

 

[bbeach123]

I bet your ass that monitor use more electricity than the pc running minecraft on it .

 

[BlackTron]

We discussed this a few times. Even if there were the necessary conditions to build them and a market that made it worth the hassle, the current power and eco regulations would stop the production before it started. These days even LED TVs get a F score for power consumption in Europe. A CRT TV would be like a mini coal furnace AND a diesel pickup all in one as far eco considerations go, lol.

 

[Toots]

crt is great but size can be a problem when you are used to the humongous flat screen tvs we have nowadays

 

[Tarin02543]

Got myself a nice Sony CPD 420 last month, does 1440p 60hz and 720p 120hz.

Only 11000 hours and built in 2002. It has rekindled my love for gaming, modern games like Armored Core 6 look fantastic at 1080p 60hz.

As expressed by many above this post, the motion clarity cannot be beaten by today's fancy oled sets nor can its input latency.

 

[Wildebeest]

I bet your ass that monitor use more electricity than the pc running minecraft on it .

Nvidia would never let something so futuristic and utopian happen.

 

[cireza]

Welcome to my nightmarish life : moving from a low res perfect motion CRT to a blurry HD TV and having to deal with it because no choice.

 

[Closer]

 

[Tarin02543]

As a side note, I believe AUO Corporation now hold the patents for SED displays, which are flat CRT monitors. Perhaps some day when the suits look past the current obsession of modern gaming and its fake resolutions and frames…

 

[bbeach123]

Welcome to my nightmarish life : moving from a low res perfect motion CRT to a blurry HD TV and having to deal with it because no choice.

My father (not a tech savvy) "upgrade" my 19 inch flat 4:3 1280 x 960 75hz(or more cant remember) to a new LCD 17 inch 1366x768 60hz .

Because its new and its flat .

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

crt is great but size can be a problem when you are used to the humongous flat screen tvs we have nowadays

Unpopular opinion: 4:3 was a better aspect ratio for most games, and smaller screen sizes allowed for better control of the action.
You can see how games that don’t want to offer a cinematic experience and therefore aren’t displayed like a movie would, often feature scenes that struggle to accommodate the 16:9 format. As for UI, I can’t even begin to understand how people can play a fast-action game on huge screens when the UI elements are displayed in the corners of the screen. Playing on a 77” TV would be simply impossible for me. 4:3 was better for UI, and games had a lot more verticality too.

 

[Toots]

Unpopular opinion: 4:3 was a better aspect ratio for most games, and smaller screen sizes allowed for better control of the action.
You can see how games that don’t want to offer a cinematic experience and therefore aren’t displayed like a movie would, often feature scenes that struggle to accommodate the 16:9 format. As for UI, I can’t even begin to understand how people can play a fast-action game on huge screens when the UI elements are displayed in the corners of the screen. Playing on a 77” TV would be simply impossible for me. 4:3 was better for UI, and games had a lot more verticality too.

I think 4:3 was better at some point in time because the best games were found in arcade cabinets and most of those were 4:3, like golden age arcade shmups.
Since the UI was made for those types of games, it will look better on a 4:3 ratio.

 

[BlackTron]

I think 4:3 was better at some point in time because the best games were found in arcade cabinets and most of those were 4:3, like golden age arcade shmups.
Since the UI was made for those types of games, it will look better on a 4:3 ratio.

Until you turn a 16:9 screen sideways

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

I think 4:3 was better at some point in time because the best games were found in arcade cabinets and most of those were 4:3, like golden age arcade shmups.
Since the UI was made for those types of games, it will look better on a 4:3 ratio.

True, but not only for arcades.
Old PC RPGs had a ton of UI onscreen, and having less columns to keep an eye on is easier.
And I think platformers worked better when you couldn’t see so far ahead of your character.

16:9 works better for movies and for movie-inspired games that can afford little to no HUD onscreen at all times. Of course Uncharted and the like work just fine in 16:9, as do many slow games. Anything where one has to keep track of many different things on all sides of the screen in real time is a struggle for me, though. As much as I like the Xenoblade games for example, it’s hard for me to keep everything under control in battle.

4:3 was born out of physical constraints and convenience when TV sets were first made, and games had to adapt to it. Having been there in the 4:3 era though, I think a case may still be made that not every game just works better in widescreen, and not only for nostalgia reasons. All those classic vertical space shooters probably would never have been that successful if TVs were 16:9 from the beginning, which means Space Invaders wouldn’t have been what it has been (and possibly even Tetris).