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Does Naughty Dog need more PS4 memory to have women as enemies?
- Thread starter Hamster Plugin
- Start date
Men would be raped to, yet there would be make male savages. Look at how many men are raped in the army and tell me why that wouldn't happen in this context,
As for Famsu, I'm arguing for equality within fiction. If the fiction is trying to be realistic then fine, but if it is something like Uncharted then I find the notion that they want to have a realistic portrayl on the pirate gender ratio a hard pill to swallow.
migh_and_highty
Neo Member
Ahha throwing the s word
DoktorEvil
Banned
TLOU isn't the biggest obstacle for having female enemies habitually in AAA games.
It was progressive enough to show Ellie as someone who fought back and the critics ate it up, but in a dog eat dog post-apocalyptic world, men and women would be both trained equally to use weapons and hunt/scavenge in a practical compound.
So yes scouting parties would be predominantly male, but not 100% male.
Fallout 3 managed to do male and female enemies. Basically anyone who could be triggered as a NPC could attack you.
Did they? Ah well, there goes that theory. But yeah, it's not like they weren't there, they just weren't used in single player(well there were female zombies).
TimeEffect
Member
Games like GTA thrive on controversy. It's free press. It's an opportunity to challenge norms. There is no just argument against having women NPCs, unless one is against violent video games altogether (unless someone makes a compelling case otherwise).
This says a couple things:
-only men are savages
-women are not capable of doing evil things
-women wouldn't murder or harm innocent people
Yes, women would be raped. Men would too, as would children. So what?
Those evil hunters work together. There is no reason they wouldn't form bonds with other evil women and work together.
It's more believable to me that women hunters find a way to exist and survive in a post-apocalptic world as capable beings than it is for me to accept that they all died or are in hiding and in need of protection behind walls.
Don't you think that a game like Last of Us 2 would benefit hugely from challenging these norms, and that any press would greatly benefit the sales of the game, and lead the industry in thinking differently about representing women, men, and gender roles in games?
There will be a few radical groups who decry any violence against women, but so what?
I have to think that there are lots of women gamers who would probably love seeing women hunters as well.
Is it a bannable offense or something? If yes, then sorry I was not aware.
You see female soldiers and female fireflies throughout the game, you fight none though.
But people do seem to mind if you can sneak up behind a woman and kiss her.
http://www.polygon.com/2014/10/1/6880061/shadow-mordor-kissing-design
On topic. There were both male and female enemies in TLOU. They just had one sex for each enemy type though.
loaf of bread
Member
I'm not even going to make a counter if you believe this would be the case in a savage society that is mostly men. The fact that you're comparing rape in our army to a post apocalyptic group of savage men is ridiculous.
no, he's just stupid
El-Pistolero
Member
Yeah, ridiculous...I know. You also know that the outrage from the media/feminist organizations will sweep the country. Equality -at least symbolic; or in terms of representation- is a one way street.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you brutally murder women, including exploding their heads with sniper rifles in The Last of Us' multiplayer? All the execution moves are available if your enemy is a woman. I don't think Naughty Dog buys the whole "I don't wanna kill women" thing, or are afraid of controversy.
I can see why some people would think that way, but I don't think they do.
I can see why some people would think that way, but I don't think they do.
Not really. Some people just think it is a buzzword when there are serious issues related to it in our industry, which is truly sad.
It depends on what "side" of the debate you're on.
BeatResetsTheWorld
Banned
It is, in my opinion
DoktorEvil
Banned
Now that I think about it, even though their attack patterns are similar, male and female enemies attack you in most Bethesda games. Their numbers were almost on par too.
Kudos to Bethesda for having some progressive design in their games.
Kudos to Bethesda for having some progressive design in their games.
Why not? Rape in the army shows that people are willing to rape those who they are not attracted. I'm sorry if I offended you but I only meant to bring up that male rape happens and I picked one of sources I knew. Why would a group of savage men be less likely to rape than army guys?
TatteredHat
Member
The world is not ready to see women brutally murdered in videogames.
A woman being a leader of a group does not necessarily mean the group would be any more inclusive of other women. Just because the leader is a she doesn't mean that there would be more women when it comes to pirate & mercenary groups. Women simply aren't a huge part of these kinds of groups. I just don't see it being a huge deal in a game like Uncharted. If Drake's enemies were police or even army soldiers, then I could see the argument for having a few female soldiers be sprinkled amidst men, but when the enemies are not-the-most-sophisticated or gender equal people in the real world, then I don't really expect some gender equality from a game. Nadia (?) being a/the leader for the group is probably plenty inclusive in itself without other people in the group having to be women.
TriniTrin
war of titties grampa
I don't get why people are obsessed with killing women in videogames. There are no children in games to kill either. I don't think you truly need women or children to kill. I don't know how many women are up in arms about not being killed in video games.
I guess we need gender equality everywhere including murder victim.
Astral Dog
Member
Also, UC 3 should have ended with a final fight against the main female villain:
Mano a mano, or with Knifes.
Mano a mano, or with Knifes.
"Not enough memory" is actually a pretty reasonable excuse.
On a game I worked on we would try to bring in a variety of faces, costumes for characters, and one of the symptoms of a memory crunch was that the variety would dramatically decrease and everyone around would look the exact same. Obviously that's a bug, but it shows that if you have a situation where there's not a lot of memory, you have to cut down on the variety of objects in the scene.
On a game I worked on we would try to bring in a variety of faces, costumes for characters, and one of the symptoms of a memory crunch was that the variety would dramatically decrease and everyone around would look the exact same. Obviously that's a bug, but it shows that if you have a situation where there's not a lot of memory, you have to cut down on the variety of objects in the scene.
There was also the fact that the female Kratos "murders" was an illusion and she didn't even die there.
TheRedSnifit
Member
Aren't there female scientists towards the end?
Dargor
Member
I think they should do it.
I would like to see how everyone would deal with it. Women, men, the media. It would be an eye opening experience.
And I'm a firm believer that ND is one of the few developers who would be up to handling such a task. They have a good eye for these things.
I would like to see how everyone would deal with it. Women, men, the media. It would be an eye opening experience.
And I'm a firm believer that ND is one of the few developers who would be up to handling such a task. They have a good eye for these things.
You're blowing my mind right now. I never made the connection in multiplayer why only the fireflies had a female character but not the hunters.
Also in case anyone hasn't played this game you can blow a woman's head out execution style if you play online. Gruesome as fuck.
JordanN
Banned
loaf of bread
Member
The hunters in The Last of Us are so fargone that they murder bountiful amounts of innocent, men, women, and children. This isn't some under the table molestation. This is full on brutal rape and then murder after I'm talking about. The hunters are desensitised to the point that the ONLY thing they're going to see women as is for their sexual desires.
Theres a reason why the fireflies and the army have women but the hunters don't.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
These artists and creators and their visions these days should be altered to cater to my tastes in the name of equality!
Tidus_Great
Banned
How many militaries or terrorist type groups use alot of women to fight? Men are generally the warriors in any culture.
TLOU ending spoilers:
There's 1 male nurse and 1 female nurse in the operating room, IIRC. Murdering them is left up to the player. I slit the surgeon's throat with the scalpel (and this animation is a lot more personal and gruesome than just shooting him) and left the 2 nurses alive, because they obviously weren't part of the decision making there and were just there to assist the surgeon. I was actually super shocked people just shot the people in the room instead of using the scalpel. Naughty Dog goes and throws in a touch they didn't have to and most people outright didn't know it existed.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
There are
nurses (since women can't be doctors!) at the end that Joel can kill.
IIRC weren't nuns were extremely sexualized? That was the problem. Not women being enemies/killed, but the fact that unlike their male enemy counterparts, the women could only be included as enemy characters if they looked sexy, instead of a more normal portrayal of a capable woman killer.
as opposed to the tastes of publishers, IP holders, CEOs, focus groups, and market research
give me a fucking break. people complaining about social inequality on the internet are the most insignificant interest group that developers have to please. your precious games are safe from the scary skeletons.
At least you can make a female character on multiplayer (which is all I play of Advanced Warfare anyway)
TheRedSnifit
Member
You can set a woman on fire, break her leg, and then melt her into goo when she tries to run away in Fallout, and as far as I know there hasn't been much backlash. I think people exaggerate when they say people will respond extremely negatively to shooting women.
So the "we don't have room to animate women" is bullshit.
Dargor
Member
You think Male rape in the army is just under the table molestation?
Anyways look it up, you still haven't explained why males wouldn't rape other males. Rape in the military is thought of a way to show domination for example.
Ehhhh.
Violence is violence. The presence of a Y chromosome shouldn't make it any better or worse.
Is that gif supposed to prove that this imagery isn't fucked up? For real?
I'm also kind of shocked about the violence against women defense force in the thread masquerading under a banner of equality.
He says that in the post that you quoted.
Well, then. I am glad that many developers admit there is social inequality and are working on more diverse games.
loaf of bread
Member
SolidSnakex
Member
As Nirolak pointed out, you'll see that they're basically always RPG's and the level of violence is nowhere near as realistic and intimate as Uncharted. People already argue that they have no idea how Uncharted even gets a T rating given how violence the kills are in the game. Can you think of a pure TPS or FPS where there are female human enemies in single player? I'm sure there are some, but I really can't think of any.
TheRedSnifit
Member
Are you okay with shooting men?