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[wildfire]

MMO's have a future.

Internet connections are becoming more robust. This will always be the biggest bottleneck. It's hard to imagine how much better it can get compared to the transition of 56K to optical but there is still clearly room to improve especially on the wireless side.

The biggest multiplayer communities are on mobile mobile phones. People want their gaming lifestyle on the go and AAA MMOs have to wait for the technology to mature to accommodate their scale.


CPU core counts are starting to rapidly increase. This is the next major bottleneck and with AMD starting to compete again on desktops and Apple pushing forward cutting edge mobile cpus the ability for our machines to handle more on screen is becoming more feasible.


MMO's used to be very basic in individual gameplay mechanics and the transition is still slow. Even if the tech materializes the gameplay needs to be more refined. MMOs grew on the back of stale mechanics on smaller scoped games. MMOs need to improve on their game design to match modern standards while still offering such a huge interconnected world.

 

[Sanctuary]

Single player "MMORPG" is one of the worst things to come from last gen, and it's almost ubiquitous now. The MMORPGs have to be vast, and they have to have a ton of stuff for you to do or else there's no reason for you to pay a monthly fee. On top of that, a lot of what you do in those worlds are just a means to an end that allows you to do something more productive in a group. I have no idea who asked for this shit in single player games, but it's almost 100% nothing but filler, waste of time content.

 

[Tomeru]

A quick look at a list of upcoming mmos at mmorpg.com says yes. They have a future. An exciting one.

 

[Octavianus]

It's all downhill after EVE Online. You can't top that.

 

[SillyEskimo]

Definition of MMOs like FFXIV nowadays
So, they might be somewhat successful but they are a disaster, imo.

Just like how bestsellers of books sell a lot, but are crap.

When MMOs were a thing they weren't designed to keep people "attached" but to be awesome on their own without mind tricks, and this is what kept people.

MMO players continue to be their own worst enemy.

 

[KJRS_1993]

I think it will adapt from big, shared worlds containing thousands of players at a time to more the Destiny / Division model where instances are shared by a maximum of 12 or so players at a time - technically not 'quite' MMOs but kind of are at the same time? They fit the criteria in the OP at least.

I personally do prefer this myself as well, I think Elder Scrolls Online gets a bit hectic with too many people around towns and cities at once and would benefit from that model, but I'm sure plenty of people would also disagree.

 

[Laiza]

I think the genre has a very interesting road ahead of it. If we could get more games that do unique and risky things like Black Desert and EVE Online and fewer me-too has-beens like the myriad WoW clones that popped up after its success, we could finally get back to the whole reason the genre was started in the first place - virtual worlds that players want to actually inhabit instead of just login to run dungeons and raids.

Hell, I'm a big fan of Blade & Soul's combat and aesthetic but I just can't deal with that boring same-old themepark MMO design anymore. It's too dry. Too staid. If they could have built it with all the supporting systems of a game like Black Desert I would have stuck around a lot more. As it is, there's no incentive for me to login again after I've exhausted the available spate of encounters. Well, aside from the PvP that is, but PvP is far too stressful for me to want to login for it on a regular basis.

Speaking of PvP, I've fallen out of love with it over time as I grow older and my reflexes slow down. It's gotten to the point where I play ostensibly PvP-focused games (like For Honor and Dawn of War III) exclusively with the available PvE options, even when they're as anemic as they are. I can only wonder how many other folks feel the same way I do...

It's all downhill after EVE Online. You can't top that.

Black Desert would disagree.

 

[Arc Christelle]

Not after they shut down Wizardry Online.

 

[RoseBell69]

The only ones that have a future for me are ESO and if Blizzard ever makes a Starcraft MMO. I really want to play them both at some point when possible. But as for the rest of the MMOs that are out there, I don't know about them, personally of course.

 

[fluffydelusions]

Black Desert would disagree.

I'm tempted to try this game but I'm not sure what to expect as I haven't really researched it enough. I love trinity system MMO's like WoW and FFXIV. From what I've seen BDO is more like GW2 in that there is trinity system.

 

[Azure Phoenix]

Your last few sentces described FFXIV almost to the T. It has some of the best story content of any recent FF titles and plenty of people don't even do combat content outside of story quests, opting instead to create items and play the markets.

The last time I looked at maybe trying FFXIV was a while ago, and I got told that although you could be a crafter, the best gear was all raid endgame stuff so it was a waste of time if you weren't interested in raiding. Any different now, or were they just wrong?

 

[Laiza]

Lmao what? XIV is anything but crap. The joy of MMOs is they can be anything you want them to be as a player, if you think XIV is like that then that's on you.

That might be true for sandbox MMORPGs, but themeparks like XIV? Don't kid yourself.

The array of relevant activities in FFXIV is actually remarkably tiny. They add a whole bunch of systems, sure, but everything is irrelevant outside of raiding. It's my biggest complaint about the game.

I'm tempted to try this game but I'm not sure what to expect as I haven't really researched it enough. I love trinity system MMO's like WoW and FFXIV. From what I've seen BDO is more like GW2 in that there is trinity system.

If you really like playing traditional tank or healer, then yes, BDO isn't exactly going to grab you in that respect.

However, for me it's the surrounding systems that are most interesting. Working on life skills, building up contribution points, creating a full chain of production with your own hired workers - the game does a lot of things that very few other games even attempt to touch, and that's what's keeping me going right now. The combat is really secondary to that.

 

[Stiler]

Besides some like ESO, FF14, etc many MMOs released in the last few years( or upcoming) targeted more hardcore crowds and were sandbox like. Very few are trying to be WoW nowadays.

Well, I can safely tell you that WoW, FFXIV, Wildstar, TSO, Guild Wars, SWTOR, and Black Desert are all vastly different games.

It's been stated in this thread so many times, the era of WoW clones are dead because developers and publishers realized the games weren't going to survive trying to ape WoW. Instead, we now have a sizeable number of successful MMOs that all have their own gimmick to set them apart. The mandatory subscription model is probably dead, other than WoW and FFXIV being able to maintain it with their sizable updates every other month with small microtransactions to supplement it. Others have opted for either all out microtransactions or premium sub models that offer incentives to people who choose to pay a sub.

The genre isn't dead and won't be dying soon. It probably won't ever be as big as it was in WoW's hay day. Those were the golden years for MMOs. But the genre is changing and will continue to.

Err, I've played most of the games mentioned, they are in no way that drastically different from WoW.

The majority of mmo's (not all, but the majorjity) still revolve around the core formula of:

Trinity class system (dps, tank, healer, for group make ups)
Zone/lv theme park designed world.
Find npc's with "!" or other symbol above head, get quest and grind lv'd enemies"
Combat that revolves around a hotbar and using skills with cooldowns.

Carrot on a stick routine to get "better loot" by killing enemies/dungeons to get even better loot in order to kill higher lv enemies, rinse repeat.

End games that focus usually on raids (which the majority of players never play/don't like to do) or pvp that's usually lv based and thus not nearly as fun until lv'd grind unless it uses a lv scaling system.

The ones who try to go a different route are usually indie mmo's that have no where near the budget/marketing to even get near AAA mmo's in terms of players or gameplay polish.

The Secret World felt at its best when it took cue's from the adventure genre but the world design/flow was still very mmo basic formula.

Guild Wars 2 was fun for a bit and the world felt open but you were still caught up in the lv game and being funneled through boring quests and checklist.

SW:TOR not like WoW? Unless the game has drastically changed since launch this was a huge disappointment to me because it was exactly like WoW in terms of overall structure of the questing/world design, combat, etc. Instead of taking the game and giving us a fun Star Wars experience they wrapped up Star Wars in an mmo game. They could have went with Jedi Knight style combat and more openness but choose the safe route instead.

 

[Starbuck2907]

As long as the business model works, and it does, they will be around.

 

[pulsemyne]

It's all downhill after EVE Online. You can't top that.

Yep been playing it for over 11 years now.

 

[Dynheart]

I believe MMO's will have a resurgence here, and it is actually already happening. However, it will not get the limelight in the likes of EQ, EQ2, WOW. These games came at the right time. With how popular online gaming is, and pretty much every game having online features, MMO's are just not in the fore front of peoples minds. As stated previously with the other MMO's, online gaming was still in it's infancy, so these games were where it was at.

But back to my original point, MMO's are starting to take shape. After EQ, EQ2, and WOW, there was a dark age, where practically every deve/pub wanted a WOW clone, and failed hard at it. Cheap knock offs of WOW was not going to get it done. Another just like how EQ, in it's prime, was not going to be dethroned, people stuck to WOW like it was to go to MMO (with what was offered at the time, it was).

MMO's are not in that state anymore. You have a plethora of excellent MMO's out there that cater to different crowds, and they are not trying to be a WOW clone.

FF 14: A healthy MMO that is going no where for a long time, and there is nothing like it on the market.

ESO: Rightful criticized for being a WOW clone with a TES paint job, but since the One Tamriel patch, it plays more like an Elder Scrolls game than anything else. As far as MMO's, nothing like that on the market.

Black Desert: I do not know much about this game, but it getting a retail console release will mean that it will have longevity. What I gather is that it has a dedicated install base, and the combat is even more actiony than that of ESO.

Having these three games succeed, even when WOW is still somewhat relevant, is a good sign. It tells me that the genre has a future, but was waiting for that evolution between WOW and what we have now. UO..EQ..WOW.....dead space.....Today. However, with the amount of people playing games nowadays, I do not things there will ever be an MMO to rule them all anymore. I know FF 14 is heavily populated, and an ESO PR dude just released a statement stating that ESO has 8.5 million active players. Black Desert, I have no clue, but I'm sure it has a healthy population as well. That is 3 MMO's with a healthy install base. But if someone is looking for an MMO with peak WOW numbers....I think that is something for the history books, will never happen again.

 

[[TW]Stone]

The genre is stagnant and it's going to stay that way until developers stop trying to make the same game over and over and over.

Your MMO is NOT going to beat WoW or even come close to WoW if you are making an mmo that plays like WoW.

People that enjoy the usual mmo formula will play wow where they have already invested thousands of hours, have friends that play, or blizzard releases a new expansion to draw them back in.

People, like me, who have gotten burnt out of mmo's love the concept of mmo's (playing within a world inhabited by thousands of other real people) but we are TIRED of playing the same damn game for the past twenty damn years.

It saddens me too because in the late 90's we had Ultima Online, Everquest, and Asheron's Call. You know what made them fun? They were different bloody games! Ultima Online played NOTHING like Everquest and the same with Asheron's Call. When you tried the others you didn't get the ""Deja Vu" feeling that you get these days because almost 99.9999% of the big mmo's are the same basic formula repackaged in a new skin.

Dark age of camelot too

 

[Drillary Clinton]

The last time I looked at maybe trying FFXIV was a while ago, and I got told that although you could be a crafter, the best gear was all raid endgame stuff so it was a waste of time if you weren't interested in raiding. Any different now, or were they just wrong?

I don't do much crafting but there is end-game crafter gear and I believe end-game crafting content.

 

[Dynheart]

Dark age of camelot too

I played the heck out of this game. I believe I dropped out with the expansion that added the purple alien looking race. Forget the name. I do remember all the farming in Darkness Falls dungeon...that was the name of the dungeon, correct?

Been so long. Miss this game.

 

[Speely]

I played the heck out of this game. I believe I dropped out with the expansion that added the purple alien looking race. Forget the name. I do remember all the farming in Darkness Falls dungeon...that was the name of the dungeon, correct?

Been so long. Miss this game.

It was the best. Are you talking about the svartalf race? That was Shrouded Isles iirc.

And yeah, Darkness Falls was the BEST.

Edit: You are probably talking about the inconnu. My b.

 

[Dynheart]

It was the best. Are you talking about the svartalf race? That was Shrouded Isles iirc.

And yeah, Darkness Falls was the BEST.

Edit: You are probably talking about the inconnu. My b.

Yea, I just looked them up: Inconnu, that was them. I remember them running all over the place in Darkness Falls when they were released lol.

 

[Syf]

Genre seems healthy to me. There's a handful of options different enough from one another that all seem to be staying afloat. I'm glad to see new games aren't always trying to copy WoW anymore, and I say that as someone who still considers WoW the best MMO around.

 

[Slayven]

I think the sandbox is the future. They always said you could just be a craftman, but the only game that was actually viable was SWG. But games like Black Desert, and Archage we are getting closer

 

[Freeman76]

The genre need to evolve to survive.
For now i just see a lot of mmorpg struggling just because they are copy paste with all the same gameplay and things

You clearly havent played BDO and probably shouldnt speak about things you arent properly versed on man...that game is doing a lot of new things and doing them very well too.

 

[BleedOrange]

I don't think there's been a vehicular combat game in quite some time, either.

To everyone's detriment

I want Mechassault 3 dammit

 

[[TW]Stone]

I played the heck out of this game. I believe I dropped out with the expansion that added the purple alien looking race. Forget the name. I do remember all the farming in Darkness Falls dungeon...that was the name of the dungeon, correct?

Been so long. Miss this game.

Correct. Darkness Falls I was a Dev/Producer on Camelot. Great times!

 

[Jest Chillin]

There's several barriers for MMO's.

Big initial investment + cost of upkeep: They're expensive and take longer than most Triple AAA games due to the massive scope.

Fickle Genre Fans: Players who are most interested in MMO's are incredibly fickle. Often times adamantly expressing the desire for very specific (niche) features but quickly abandoning a game the moment they discover it's not perfect, to return to older games where they've become invested in their characters.

Tricky to monetize: Due to the combination of the above, they're also trickier to monetize. Many potential players find it hard to justify a hard subscription for a game that launches with less content than bigger/older games. Early poor (often predatory) attempts at F2P in the genre left a lot of players with a bad taste in their mouths. To the point that any version of F2P is nearly universally considered an insulting proposition.

Major differences in Western vs Eastern Audience: While this is true of game design in general, it's usual is expressed in different genres. MMO's however, don't see the same hard genre lines and taste doesn't crossover as much within the Sub-genres (i.e. various RPG flavors split more in general taste rather than regionally). Additionally many of the key aspects that a region tends to favor, are almost diametrically opposed to what the other region likes. Usually simply broken down to WoW-clone (Western) vs. Grinder (Eastern).

All of these things a huge hurdles that a Dev/Publisher has to overcome before you even get to the specifics of design in terms of class balance, encounter design/difficulty, bugs, system demands, etc... So it's incredibly difficult to get your foot in the door and actually survive for a decent amount of time. Which is why the most popular MMO's tend to to be the ones that have been around forever and have gained a reputation for quality. The big exception being FF15, which largely only made it due to Square Enix being willing to possibly throw good money after bad in a complete overhaul and the strength of the sheer popularity of the IP itself.

Does the MMO genre have a future? Of course. But we're not likely to ever see a return to the days when there were high quality MMO's coming out on an almost monthly basis.

 

[LumpOfCole]

The next MMO renaissance is defined to be on mobile devices. It's a platform that hasn't had its truly resonating, multiple year lasting lightning-in-a-bottle MMO experience yet. Clash of Clans came close but it's not an MMO. Imagine if Pokémon GO had the depth of a true Pokémon RPG with multiplayer elements - it would've be the next World of Warcraft instead of the next massive yet brief mobile fad.

One day, someone is going to add an MMO with true depth on smartphones that starts as big as Pokémon GO and lasts as long in the public consciousness as WoW did on PCs.

 

[CountAntonius]

Hubtown and instanced co-op seems to be the new MMO. Destiny, Warframe, Dauntless etc.

Traditional as in Wow or Everquest? There will always be someone trying to do them but few if any will find success.

 

[Dynheart]

Hubtown and instanced co-op seems to be the new MMO. Destiny, Warframe, Dauntless etc.

Traditional as in Wow or Everquest? There will always be someone trying to do them but few if any will find success.

Pretty much this, although there is a third kind of MMO out there:

Large sandboxes/theme parks that play like single player games, but add the MMO aspect for co-op on the fly, and the hope for cultivating a community in game. Plays closer to a tradition MMO, but has more of the aspects of the hub-based games in execution (if that makes sense).

I feel on top of the business model that NCsoft popularized, the MMO I described is probably what we will see survive. Of course the Warframes and Destiny's, but I see them as online co-op games (closer to PSO) with MMO-like features, but both should be able to coexist.

I believe that the traditional MMO/model is pretty much dead. People want end content, raids etc, but in the most convenient way possible to the point to where interaction with others is not even needed. EQ, WOW, needing community to get anywhere would look like a bother, and arguments such as "I paid for it, I should be able to access it when I want" will always pop up. Because of this, the traditional MMO is looked at as an antiquated style, and that makes me sad.

Media moves on, though, whether it is for the better, or for the worse. In this case, the MMO community is so polarized that it is hard to tell if the genre is being accepted positively (outside of a handful of successful games I mention previously) or not. I would like to believe that MMO's have a future, though.

 

[Sumio Mondo]

"Are there any genres of gaming that are just completely extinct now?"

With the exception of Wild Guns Remastered, the Cabal Clone is long dead. Also, top down "arena shooters" that *aren't* dual stick shooters, like Shock Troopers, Out Zone, Cannon Spike, etc. And rail shooters. There was the phoned-in-as-fuck Star Fox Zero but that also spent quite a bit of time off-rails. I don't think there's been a vehicular combat game in quite some time, either.

Yeah.
And CG FMV (Saturn/PS1 era) adventure games in the style of 'Mansion of Hidden Souls' and 'D' too. Not seen any indie games in that style aside from the Kowloon's Gate (PS1) remake for VR, sadly.

Live action FMV adventure games have seen a mini resurgence lately but was definitely a super dead genre for a loooong time too.

Arcade racers (Ridge Racer, SEGA Rally, Daytona, OutRun etc) are so dead too.

I'd also even argue that hack 'n slash brawlers are pretty dead too (Golden Axe by SEGA, Dungeons & Dragons by Capcom, Knights of Valor). There's only really Vanillaware (and the odd Indie game here and there) making those kind of games nowadays.

I'd also say that lightgun games (sister genre of rail shooters) are on life support. Time Crisis 5 came out and that's about it for the genre nowadays...

 

[Projectjustice]

Really enjoying BDO atm, like the combat and how the economy works. It's pretty different from most mmos I've played.

Came here to say the same thing. I really like how there's value to your family name with more family members. It's really refreshing approach to the genre with the things you listed as well.

 

[Dre_G_Writer]

I think games like star citizen may be the evolution of MMOs.

 

[Stiler]

I played the heck out of this game. I believe I dropped out with the expansion that added the purple alien looking race. Forget the name. I do remember all the farming in Darkness Falls dungeon...that was the name of the dungeon, correct?

Been so long. Miss this game.

If you haven't you might want to look at Camelot Unchained.

It's a kickstarter mmo from Mark Jacobs that's been in development for a few years now and is basically his spiritual successor to DAOC.

They are planning on a Darkness Falls type of area too (called the Depths IIRC).

 

[faridmon]

Personally, paying £12 a month for a game never sat well with me.