DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
My PS4 wants to stay horizontal and she couldn't be happier.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Does the PS4 have a heat sink design flaw that leads to vertical noise differences?
- Thread starter TheExodu5
- Start date
There's evidence they run hot, but not unreasonably so.
That's about 60 degree Celsius at it's hottest point, which isn't outlandish, but it slightly troubling.
What are you smoking?
60 degrees Celsius is WAY below what these processors can handle.
If my memory is correct these chips can go up to 90 degrees without being harmed.
SwiftDeath
Member
Speculation
Until a larger number of vertical PS4's are shown to have problems than horizontal this means little
Until a larger number of vertical PS4's are shown to have problems than horizontal this means little
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
It would behoove everyone to know that heatpipe orientation sometimes affecting performance is a fact that has been around for ages. That it also affects the PS4 is plausible, but there are still many scenarios in which it wouldn't make a difference, and the OP's observations are errant or just an isolated case. OP isn't saying it's the end of the world, though. It's just a minor thing.
Edumacate yoselves on heatpipes, people.
http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=2466
To see pics, click the link
How heat pipes work:
http://www.1-act.com/resources/heat...ypes-of-heat-pipes/standard-heat-pipes-cchps/
Very good instructional video, with visual demonstration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vk5B6Gga10
Edumacate yoselves on heatpipes, people.
http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=2466
To see pics, click the link
How heat pipes work:
http://www.1-act.com/resources/heat...ypes-of-heat-pipes/standard-heat-pipes-cchps/
Very good instructional video, with visual demonstration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vk5B6Gga10
No it isn't. It's the second one.
The right side of that picture is the base when the PS4 is vertical.
A message that pops up during operation is a HUGE difference from an ever-present dedicated light.
So all I'm saying is that I can see someone being concerned by it, regardless of my own thoughts on the matter. I mean, Sony could have chosen an OS notification for this like you see on iOS devices, but they went with a hardware light, because....?
And that question mark will concern some people. Especially in a post-RROD world. We aren't PC gamers because we wanted to ESCAPE shit like that.
Another poor reference.
A vertical PS4 would be the equivalent of first example in that Noctua pic.
Look again:
The bend is at the top of the heatsink. The vapor will travel down the heatpipe and then condense, at which point the cendensated liquid will have to fight against gravity to climb back up to the thermal plate.
Ok, since I didn't know what RV02 'normal' vs RV02 'vertical' meant I actually went back and look up the images.
The vertical orientation works better because of the whole design philosophy of RV02/FT02 series of cases.
Heat rises so these cases pull cold air in from the bottom and push it out of the top. I don't think the heatpipe orientation has much to do with it.
The vertical orientation works better because of the whole design philosophy of RV02/FT02 series of cases.
Heat rises so these cases pull cold air in from the bottom and push it out of the top. I don't think the heatpipe orientation has much to do with it.
i suggest people first educate themselves on how hot PS4 runs in vertical position vs horizontal.
And result is:
http://www.planetextech.com/profiles/blogs/playstation-4-thermal-images
It works the same. Hottest vertical temp they recorded was 141F and hottest horizontal was 140F.
This was recorded by using FLIR E8 Thermal Camera, which is $6k.
Beer Monkey
Member
An LED and some wire cost pennies. People can do dumb shit like block their vents. Having a warning light makes sense to me, probably get fewer people trying to get warranty replacements so I'd say an LED and some wire will ultimately pay for itself.
Ok, since I didn't know what RV02 'normal' vs RV02 'vertical' meant I actually went back and look up the images.
The vertical orientation works better because of the whole design philosophy of RV02/FT02 series of cases.
Heat rises so these cases pull cold air in from the bottom and push it out of the top. I don't think the heatpipe orientation has much to do with it.
Read the article:
Normal in this case means the second picture (vertical orientation).
I only have 10ft ceilings.
WordsintheWater
Member
I don't see a difference between a light that shows up if it overheats after it turns the system off than a warning on the screen, they are both overheating warnings.
dude:
http://www.planetextech.com/profiles/blogs/playstation-4-thermal-images
There is no effect on the cooling. You are wrong, stop it.
tfur
Member
So, evidence shows that position is probably insignificant.
You'd have to know the fan speed in each direction before you could say it works the same though. A thermal measurement is not enough data points.
Then what is the issue? I showed DB ratings in comparison to the Xbox One; You said they are irrelevant. Considering they are running similar internals I don't see the issue.
Again:
http://www.gamefront.com/how-loud-is-the-xbox-one-compared-to-ps4/
If the PS4 and Xbox One are the same volume essentially from 1 meter away then orientation does not seem to make that much of a difference. Unless you are saying Sony's fans that rev up are as quiet as the Xbox Ones fans.
WordsintheWater
Member
So maybe a more appropriate title would be, PS4 fans louder when vertical
So design is still good? Got it.
tfur
Member
What is the rpm that each position is spinning?
Also, please answer the question about expected operation temperatures.
tokyo slim
Banned
I feel like it behooves someone to bring up that there are many reasons that people may be perceiving that the PS4 is louder when placed vertically, but it doesn't actually mean that's necessarily the case, or if it is - that it's being caused by the heatpipes, or even the fan.
Why? It's still a design flaw that may have been avoidable.
Yes, that is a possibility.
Unfortunately I do not have the necessary equipment or setup to actually collect any data based on my hypothesis.
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
A device works oh so slightly better when in one position than the other, but still operates normally and as intended in both positions
=/= design flaw
It was found that the PS3 runs cooler when horizontal. Design flaw? Come on.
=/= design flaw
It was found that the PS3 runs cooler when horizontal. Design flaw? Come on.
You must be seeing something I'm not, because it looks like the second figure to me.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Judging by how many posters were critical of the OP while not knowing that the PS4 uses heatpipes in its heatsink design, I'd say it's important to know.
The test you reference shows that the PS4 runs well enough in either orientation for consumer use, demonstrating, like I pointed out earlier, that this probably isn't a huge issue to be worried about. It, however, does not refute the OP's hypothesis.
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
This.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
keep fighting the good fight. Lol at these last comments about this quote.
WordsintheWater
Member
Maybe, I guess, I dunno too much about these things, just trying to educate myself by these posts. I actually have mine vertical and I do notice the fans more, but I had in the cabinet before when it was horizontal. Wish I could do a proper test, surprised none of these sites have.
I'm so dumb I didn't realize that gravity on cooling could even make the slightest difference.
I'd be curious as to what a dangerous (in terms of stability or longevity) temperature would be on the PS4.
Surely Sony has destroyed many a console in testing. Course we'll never know those numbers, same with Microsoft.
I'd be curious as to what a dangerous (in terms of stability or longevity) temperature would be on the PS4.
Surely Sony has destroyed many a console in testing. Course we'll never know those numbers, same with Microsoft.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
So why not test this hypothesis?
Run the PS4 in the standard vertical position, and then lean it up on it's front or something so the heatpipes are horizontal and see if it runs quieter. If it does, the OP is probably right. If it doesn't, the OP would be proven wrong.
Edit: beaten.
Run the PS4 in the standard vertical position, and then lean it up on it's front or something so the heatpipes are horizontal and see if it runs quieter. If it does, the OP is probably right. If it doesn't, the OP would be proven wrong.
Edit: beaten.
From what I can tell the PS4 fans speed up substantially more than the Xbox One's do.
PS4
Xbox
If you look at Gaming/Installing/UI the Xbox One gets hotter than the PS4, but remains a little quieter. (as referenced by the close measurements) the PS4 gets louder (53DB when directly at the console, but stays 4-5 degrees cooler); Design choices I guess.
Perhaps if you request it, DF can test the two orientations for you and measure the DB difference (if there is one)
According to those pictures you would just need to flip on the other side.
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
I think the problem is the implication that this is a big deal.
Why not instead say "PS4 fan and cooling designed to increase air flow when vertical to compensate for barely decreased heat dissipation. A trade off of the design to keep the console itself compact."
Flaw sounds like they didn't think of it and it could potentially be catastrophic.
schwabdizzle
Banned
This. I have 2 cats that will fuck shit up.
tfur
Member
Maybe, but I see it differently. Flaw in design suggests a design that is prone to, or will operate outside of the expected design. Further it is meant to suggest an increased probability to operate outside of range, to include possible failure.
We need expected operation temperature ranges. As of now, they are the same in either position.
RPM fans speeds. Only for your knowledge, but let it be known that device maintains the same operations temperature in either position.
I really do not think you have offered any real details yet.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
That would put it in a more optimal vertical position, but I think a horizontal test would make the most sense. Doing both wouldn't hurt either, just because it should be so easy to do.
Definitely might not be catastrophic, but I would have brought it up to the engineer in charge if I were working QC on the hardware.
The question would be:
What are the potential issues in mounting the heatsink in a different orientation.
Perhaps this is simply the best possible orientation.
There's evidence they run hot, but not unreasonably so.
That's about 60 degree Celsius at it's hottest point, which isn't outlandish, but it slightly troubling.
60 degrees is nothing to worry about for a GPU.
Indeed. Just running at the same temp only means that the fan is powerful enough to keep the system at a set temp. Without knowing what speed the fan is at you can't say if it is similarly thermally efficient one way or another.
Bananajama
Banned
What if....
You submerged it in that non conductive gel stuff
You submerged it in that non conductive gel stuff
The One and Done
Member
Lol Jesus u people