I dont know what the hell u people are talking about. I played 2 hours with my ps4 vertical. And then turned it off. Put it horizontal. And kept playing for another 20 mins. I am still playing as i type this from my iphone. And no extra fan noise level. Same amount of heat and same fan noise level which i cant even hear it. I even put the tv on mute. Only thing i hear is sometimes drive spinning " not loud" and my AC in my room 2 meters far
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Does the PS4 have a heat sink design flaw that leads to vertical noise differences?
- Thread starter TheExodu5
- Start date
Synless
Member
Some people are having fan issues. Mine makes little to no noise, but that's mine. Others are having extreme noise levels. Just because ours are quiet doesn't mean everyone has does.
Either the game you're playing isn't demanding enough to make the PS4 get hot, or the ambient noise level in your room is high compared to some of ours.
Turn the AC in your room off. Go in a game like Killzone and load a level. Press the PS button and go out to the Friends screen, and let it sit there for a few minutes. This is where the PS4 gets the loudest for me.
Also, how far away are you from your PS4? I sit with it right next to my desk (about a meter away from my head) so it's pretty easy to hear it.
I am playing call of duty. Only have that and bf4. Which one u want me to try ?
Either or. Can't comment on the noise levels in these games but what I can say with certainty is that the console gets louder when you're in certain home screen menus with a game in standby. The Friends menu is one of these menus.
Nope. Not just you.
Either way it's amusing that the PS4 heatsink is designed wrong, yet still runs games cooler on more power hardware than the XB1. Oops!
(Probably due to that huge low rpm fan, and 5-10C ain't a big deal, but still amusing. They went for quiet over heat, even after the RROD fiasco)
OK, so based on pics from iFixit and Wired I've roughly overlayed the heatsink on top of the APU/RAM, and deduce the heat dissipation pattern.
I've orientated the image so that it looks like the PS4 is standing vertically (blue arrow pointing towards the top) and you're looking at it from the heatsink side.
Note that the heatsink has 2 "parts". The one towards the bottom is likely cooler as it's not straight above the APU.
Heatpipe 2 (red) runs over some GDDR5 modules and, after the 180 turn (via what is likely the cooler part of the heatsink), over the APU. In a heatpipe, heat dissipates at the pointy end, so the red arrow indicates how it "flows".
Heatpipe 1 (yellow) runs over the APU as well, and then takes a 180 turn and bends towards the viewer (so away from the APU) and ends up on the cooler part of the heatsink. Again the yellow arrow indicates the direction of the vaporized coolant.
I've orientated the image so that it looks like the PS4 is standing vertically (blue arrow pointing towards the top) and you're looking at it from the heatsink side.
Note that the heatsink has 2 "parts". The one towards the bottom is likely cooler as it's not straight above the APU.
Heatpipe 2 (red) runs over some GDDR5 modules and, after the 180 turn (via what is likely the cooler part of the heatsink), over the APU. In a heatpipe, heat dissipates at the pointy end, so the red arrow indicates how it "flows".
Heatpipe 1 (yellow) runs over the APU as well, and then takes a 180 turn and bends towards the viewer (so away from the APU) and ends up on the cooler part of the heatsink. Again the yellow arrow indicates the direction of the vaporized coolant.
I tried what u told me. But honestly. I can tell there is a sliiiiiiight difference in fan noise level. But really not much of a difference at all. Ps4 is also a meter in front of me. There is a fan difference. But isnt that known ? I mean they all said that during game play and OS the heat is the most. My ps4 isnt making a jet sound fan tho. Ifs way quite . Like. If i am 2 meters away from it. I wont be able to hear it
OK, so based on pics from iFixit and Wired I've roughly overlayed the heatsink on top of the APU/RAM, and deduce the heat dissipation pattern.
I've orientated the image so that it looks like the PS4 is standing vertically (blue arrow pointing towards the top) and you're looking at it from the heatsink side.
Note that the heatsink has 2 "parts". The one towards the bottom is likely cooler as it's not straight above the APU.
Heatpipe 2 (red) runs over some GDDR5 modules and, after the 180 turn (via what is likely the cooler part of the heatsink), over the APU. In a heatpipe, heat dissipates at the pointy end, so the red arrow indicates how it "flows".
Heatpipe 1 (yellow) runs over the APU as well, and then takes a 180 turn and bends towards the viewer (so away from the APU) and ends up on the cooler part of the heatsink. Again the yellow arrow indicates the direction of the vaporized coolant.
Good visualization here.
But from what I'm reading, isn't it the condensed coolant that is affected by gravity, not the vaporized coolant? The coolant would condense at the pointy end and flow back through the wick to the thermal plate, so flow should be reversed in this case I think.
Either our PS4s produce different noise levels or your room's ambient noise levels are higher than mine.
Please leave the console war at the door.
Nowhere near that. My fat PS3 can get unbearably loud by comparison (and it only has two distinct fan speeds in games, which makes things worse as it gets extremely noticeable when it kicks into high speed).
Still, not what I, personally, would consider quiet. If I had to "guess", I'd say it's about half as loud as the fat PS3.
Whiteshirt
Member
Fairly sure it's to do with powder vs groove + manufacturing quality. It's easier for Silverstone to be none specific about this and just say a specific orientation doesn't work very well.
I've used a lot of GPU coolers in this questionable orientation without any real performance loss and I'm the type to lock fans at very low RPMs until they reach 70 degrees.
Sony may have issues depending on who is supplying their heatsinks.
Or the issue could just be airflow and compeltely unrelated to heatsinks. No way to find out unless someone with an SPL meter does some tests.
I duno. I dont think mine that loud even. Like right now i am downloading psn game. Cod still online and i am in the main menu. And i think my ps4 fan went down a little. Maybe because i am not playing a match ? But yeah its quite. Heck i turned my desktop right now on just to compare and my ps4 is dead quite compared to it lol
Edit: yeah i got the fan to kick in with 1 game installing. Other downloading. Cod in a game in the back. And i am in the OS. Lol but i dont see an issue. Its still very quite compared to other systems
I think the design is actually really smart. The vaporized coolant goes towards the pointy end. The condensed one is affected by gravity.
The part of the red pipe which will likely be the coolest (thus condensed and most affected by gravity) at any point in on the right hand side because it's right in front of the fan. So it flow downwards, takes the U-turn, then it starts heating up when it reaches the bit above the APU, in which case it works against gravity. And then cools down at the heat dissipation point (pointy end) and flows back.
For the yellow pipe, it's pretty much immediately heating up and thus working against gravity, starts cooling down a lot as it completely exits the heatsink and goes away from the APU when it takes the 180 turn and eventually cools down completely when it reaches the heat dissipation point at the "bottom" of the heatsink. It most likely warms up a bit again on its way up through the heatsink.
BlackSalad
Member
Call me old fashioned, but i think the explanation for this is much simpler. i don't think gravity is having much effect in the heat pipe, i believe they'd have the pressure optimized in the tubes that gravity would have little effect. its probably just the orientation of the hsf, hot air is able to dissipate more quickly when the fan and heat sink are horizontal.
Anyway i can confirm that the sound coming from the is horizontal is much less or not existent compared to the vertical. But not by much. The fan has 3 or 4 gears. In vertical it kicks to the second grear. In horizontal its quite and doesnt kick in . And i think thats fine because in vertical. U r blocking the holes on the side
Lostconfused
Member
Huh, I noticed that my PS4 sounds a bit too loud and it is currently in a standing vertical position. Good thread Exodus.
dr. apocalipsis
Banned
The big problem I see with PS4 cooling is, crappy cooler aside, the lack of a proper backplate to secure the heat sink. Instead, it is mounted in a big metal pannel that also acts as shield.
See how tiny the sujection is in the rear pannel.
This will lead to major differences from one PS4 to another PS4 depending on how well applied thermal paste is. Also, the quality of the thermal paste will be critical and it even will dry faster.
It would also explain why some gaffers have more silents PS4s than others, and why some gaffers have noisier PS4s when sitting vertically. The lack of correct pressure.
But that is with the plastic case in between. Inner will be hotter than that.
See how tiny the sujection is in the rear pannel.
This will lead to major differences from one PS4 to another PS4 depending on how well applied thermal paste is. Also, the quality of the thermal paste will be critical and it even will dry faster.
It would also explain why some gaffers have more silents PS4s than others, and why some gaffers have noisier PS4s when sitting vertically. The lack of correct pressure.
There's evidence they run hot, but not unreasonably so.
That's about 60 degree Celsius at it's hottest point, which isn't outlandish, but it slightly troubling.
But that is with the plastic case in between. Inner will be hotter than that.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
The main thing you need to know is that for the heatpipe to work optimally in a vertical orientation, the side where the liquid condenses (colder side) has to be higher than the side where the liquid vaporizes (hotter side).
dr. apocalipsis
Banned
OK, so based on pics from iFixit and Wired I've roughly overlayed the heatsink on top of the APU/RAM, and deduce the heat dissipation pattern.
I've orientated the image so that it looks like the PS4 is standing vertically (blue arrow pointing towards the top) and you're looking at it from the heatsink side.
Note that the heatsink has 2 "parts". The one towards the bottom is likely cooler as it's not straight above the APU.
Heatpipe 2 (red) runs over some GDDR5 modules and, after the 180 turn (via what is likely the cooler part of the heatsink), over the APU. In a heatpipe, heat dissipates at the pointy end, so the red arrow indicates how it "flows".
Heatpipe 1 (yellow) runs over the APU as well, and then takes a 180 turn and bends towards the viewer (so away from the APU) and ends up on the cooler part of the heatsink. Again the yellow arrow indicates the direction of the vaporized coolant.
Heat pipes doesn't dissipates heat. They are there to transmit heat to the heat-sink fins. Fins are where heat is dissipated with the help of air flow. That's why heat pipes use to be made of copper (sometimes nickel-plated to avoid corrosion), and fins are made from aluminium.
Also, both heatpipes are in contact, or very close at least since they don't look like a bare contact design, with the APU, not the GDDR5 chips. Secondary heat pipe, red in your pic, is there to extend the heat transmision, not to cover memory chips.
Memory chips are dissipated by the EMI shielding using thermal pads.
flamingotripod
Member
Are they getting these pipes from space? Not affected by gravity?
plagiarize
Banned
this has been a very interesting thread. we have a valid hypothesis for the reported observation that the PS4 is noisier when stood vertically than horizontal. we have a lot of banned people who got very upset about the word flaw (who should stay well clear of ever buying diamonds). I think my favorite part was the couple of people that somehow seemed to think that vapor wasn't effected by gravity.
I see people are still getting upset by the word flaw. Does imperfection upset you guys less?
I see people are still getting upset by the word flaw. Does imperfection upset you guys less?
The only thing that I could see actually making a difference with the PS4 being vertical is the fact that the side vent gets covered up to a degree when not using a stand. It still gets airflow on that side due to the vents being within a groove, but it doesn't get the same level of direct airflow. The stand is clearly designed to help with this issue, but the problem is that the stand is not being sold in NA yet, which still boggles my mind. That said, I have had my PS4 vertical since launch day, and it runs just fine, and the fan rarely kicks up to noticeable speeds, so I don't see much of an issue with it. I still want to get the vertical stand as soon as it becomes available though, as more airflow is always better, but I love my PS4 vertical. The PS4 standing vertical with the orange standby light on makes it look like something out of Tron. 
Here is something I noticed with last gen and having very noisy PS3 Slim and 2 noisy 360's, my launch PS3 and 3 other 360's were very quiet by the way, the noise of the fans would change instantly if you lifted it from horizontal to vertical, it worked going from vertical to horizontal too.
The frequency of the noise changed in sync to the angle the console was at, this lead me to believe the change in noise levels was due to the stability of the fan.
After fixing well over a hundred consoles I also noticed there was no consistency in noise, some are quiet, some are noisy, whether that's to do with the heat sensor calibrations or whether some fans are more balanced with smoother rotations, I don't know, but when cleaning the grime off the blades some are noticeably more prone to movement along the axis of the spindle, it's only a few millimetres but that may have an effect.
I may be totally wrong though but that's what I always thought was the cause of noisy fans.
It would be good to see some proper tests done though, checking the noise levels from stand to horizontal, it would need to be done in a proper test environment with the right tools for accurate results though.
The frequency of the noise changed in sync to the angle the console was at, this lead me to believe the change in noise levels was due to the stability of the fan.
After fixing well over a hundred consoles I also noticed there was no consistency in noise, some are quiet, some are noisy, whether that's to do with the heat sensor calibrations or whether some fans are more balanced with smoother rotations, I don't know, but when cleaning the grime off the blades some are noticeably more prone to movement along the axis of the spindle, it's only a few millimetres but that may have an effect.
I may be totally wrong though but that's what I always thought was the cause of noisy fans.
It would be good to see some proper tests done though, checking the noise levels from stand to horizontal, it would need to be done in a proper test environment with the right tools for accurate results though.
Valkyria
Banned
Does anyone has an article or such describing how the liquid flows back to thee heat source? I mean, even if the heatpipes were the other way around a segmet before the U turn would still be against gravity.
For I could read here is relays in the capillarity of the fluid and the gradient of temperatures in the heatpipe. I'm pretty sure that a heatpipe should be very long before gravity force made the flow of the liquid phase harder.
For I could read here is relays in the capillarity of the fluid and the gradient of temperatures in the heatpipe. I'm pretty sure that a heatpipe should be very long before gravity force made the flow of the liquid phase harder.
B_Boss
Member
Damn...so the competent engineers overlooked this (what seems to be) simple issue? I'd hope not....if so, I guess we'll see some kind of a redesign sooner than later. This is very interesting and thanks to the OP for some serious research on the topic. This could lead to solutions or at least relevant attention and discussion (currently ongoing lol).
While we're at it, does anyone have any images of the PS3's internals in an vertical orientation? If its already been posted in this thread I'll search for it. Thanks (for a compare and contrast so to speak).
While we're at it, does anyone have any images of the PS3's internals in an vertical orientation? If its already been posted in this thread I'll search for it. Thanks (for a compare and contrast so to speak).
elementalsin
Member
What a silly and ridiculous question/statement. I've got more than a fair amount to complain about for both the ps4 AND the one (i own both).
The noise level of my current PS4 is cause for concern for ME. Lets assume for a moment our PS4's have equal noise levels and you don't have an issue with it. That's fine, that would be your opinion and you're more than welcome to it. But having an opinion opposite of yours doesn't automatically mean someone is just searching for things to complain about. If anything I'd say the opposite of your statement is true, people are grasping at anything and everything to justify ANY POSSIBLE TINY or large 'problem/issue' with the ps4.
I'm not saying the heatpipe is taking heat from the GDDR5 modules, just that it's where it's running.
And yes, heat does dissipate from the end of the heatpipe, that's the whole idea behind it.
I don't see any way they could have changed the orientation of the heatpipes without needing the PS4 to blow air out the side of the case. If they want it front to back then this seems their only choice. I guess if they'd used an external power supply that might give them space for that
I would keep an eye on it - those measurements posted earlier show only a 1db difference at 1 metre between the two, so there shouldn't be a huge difference in noise
There's nothing to be scared about. There's no indication that the PS4 is running overly hot when vertical...it just might be a bit louder.
Pyccko
Member
Well, shucks. I suppose I'll just leave it horizontal for now, set it back vertical if I need the space back. Also, for what it's worth, running it vertical since I got it, the noise level really wasn't bothering me at all. Maybe now I'll be negative-bothered!
dr. apocalipsis
Banned
I'm not saying the heatpipe is taking heat from the GDDR5 modules, just that it's where it's running.
And yes, heat does dissipate from the end of the heatpipe, that's the whole idea behind it.
Look, you are starting to sound a bit ridiculous here, no offense. There is no such a thing like a 'pointy end' in heat pipes. Any differences between heatpipes ends are due just to manufacturing conveniences.
Pipes transports heat. Period. They have not enough contact surface with air to dissipate heat. Fins runs along the heatpipe to dissipate heat maximizing contact exposure of every section of the pipe. In this blower design, the fan is forcing convection in one direction only. Thats why fins are closed on top.
Copper is better at heat transfer than aluminium because of its reduced thermal and electricity resistance, thats why they use it on heat pipes. Then they use aluminium in fins because it is easier and cheaper to manufacture in that form.
Even when OP is right about some cooler desing having problems with orientation, I don't think this is the case here. Bear in mind that we are talking about very high pressures of vapor vs vacuum, nullify the effect of gravity.
Look, you are starting to sound a bit ridiculous here, no offense. There is no such a thing like a 'pointy end' in heat pipes. Any differences between heatpipes ends are due just to manufacturing conveniences.
Pipes transports heat. Period. They have not enough contact surface with air to dissipate heat. Fins runs along the heatpipe to dissipate heat maximizing contact exposure of every section of the pipe. In this blower design, the fan is forcing convection in one direction only. Thats why fins are closed on top.
Copper is better at heat transfer than aluminium because of its reduced thermal and electricity resistance, thats why they use it on heat pipes. Then they use aluminium in fins because it is easier and cheaper to manufacture in that form.
Even when OP is right about some cooler desing having problems with orientation, I don't think this is the case here. Bear in mind that we are talking about very high pressures of vapor vs vacuum, nullify the effect of gravity.
You're jumping places. An isolated heatpipe can function just fine(*), irrespective of the presence of a heatsink, because yes, heat does dissipate from the "cold" end. That's the point, and what permits the bidirectional flow of the coolant.
*of course, a heatsink helps dissipate heat as well so it will be more efficient, but all I mean is that a heatpipe can function without a heatsink.
dr. apocalipsis
Banned
Please, show me a standalone heat pipe without heat sink working as a cooling solution.
That doesn't make any sense.
Jesus. I never said it's a "solution" (as in it'd be enough to efficiently cool down a chip - although the fat PS3 did have multilple heat pipes with a bare minimum heat sink which was just the flat, thin shield), but just that a heat pipe functions on its own (in terms of the actual flow of the coolant) because one end (sitting on top of the chip/ heat source) is obviously warmer that the other.
dr. apocalipsis
Banned
Playstation 3 sink.
That's a slim PS3. I said fat.
Regarding the "pointy end" I'm fairly sure it does have a function and isn't just there because it's easier to cut. When the gas reaches that end, it will get compressed due to the reduction in the section size. That will force heat out via isothermal compression.
Marauder Shields
Member
Thanks for the thread OP. Have actually learned quite a bit from it.
dr. apocalipsis
Banned
Oops, I edited after your post.
Anyway, as you can see on my pics, PS3 fat have a pretty hefty heat sink. Not a flat, thin shield.
Anyway, as you can see on my pics, PS3 fat have a pretty hefty heat sink. Not a flat, thin shield.
good job OP.
elementalsin
Member
Yeah that is exactly why I'm semi concerned. Not because I'm "OMG ITS SO LOUD PS4 SUXORS".... It is simply because most of what I've read about them show there isn't much of a difference in noise level, yet mine really does turn into a freaking jet very very quickly regardless of what I'm doing/playing. This is NOT in an entertainment center yet, its sitting in the middle of a glass coffee table in the middle of the room completely open air. I'm undecided whether I should contact sony about it now, or wait and see if anything happens with it, though I will say (again, for me, my opinion) its a bit on the loud side all the time, which again contradicts most reports of the consoles noise level.
thewhitehawk
Member
My response wasn't a knee-jerk reaction, quite the opposite. For the past couple of weeks I've been feeling something stirring inside of me and the messaging so far by both consumers and the media has been well, skewed.
I see a lot of concern and comments regarding the install sizes of the Playstation 4 and assumptions that you'll only be able to have 10 games installed at any time, which is false. People are quick to point out that the size will be a limitation but less of the same people are keen on reporting that the hard drive can be replaced by the users and uses a standard non-proprietary hard drive, whereas with the Xbox One, not only is the hard drive not-user replaceable unless you want to void your warranty and there won't be external hard drive support at launch.
I've seen reports of Playstation4 failures being posted front and center based, mostly, on hear-say with no legitimate sources or comments about it a mere day after it was launched.
A designer I happen to follow on Twitter had a defect on his Xbox One and complained that there was zero backwards compatibility on the Xbox One with any driving wheel peripherals. And his Xbox One had a defect and was therefore returned, it wouldn't read any disks. Reports on that? Well, maybe I missed them but if it wasn't for his tweet I wouldn't even know about it.
Then there were complains about the Playstation 4 that if it was pressed on a specific edge of the console it would wobble because the rubber pegs that keep it steady are not on the edge but instead inline with the black line that goes around about one third of the console in, even though the console itself does not vibrate or suffer at all during function because of it.
And now people are saying it has a flaw because if the console is vertical it becomes a bit more heated, whereas the Xbox can't even be put up vertically. The Xbox One, horizontally, with a bigger box, a lot more venting ports and a very large fan with a very big external power brick is still hotter than the Playstation 4. Why can't that be considered a design flaw also? I don't consider that a design flaw, but it's quite embarrassing if you ask me.
These aren't just minor quibbles that people are discussing in forums. These are things that are being reported and discussed on very large public websites and being put under public scrutiny whereas the Xbox One shares similar issues but there hasn't as well-spread reporting of it's own small tidbits and limitations and I wouldn't be surprised if on the next couple of days I saw this being reported as news on some tech website with no mention of how the heat levels compare to the Xbox One.
Just to be clear, I absolutely do not mind these things being discussed, but if you're going to be this meticulous about examining a particular console make a fair article and compare both pieces of hardware because ultimately what consumers want to know is how a particular flaw or characteristic might affect them and how one product compares against it's competitor. That's all.
elementalsin
Member
Its knee-jerk if only for the fact that you're basing this on fair comparison to a console that (as of when this was being talked about) HADN'T LAUNCHED YET. Not to mention the damn topic wasn't even meant to include discussion about the xb1, so why does it need to be brought into the topic? Even with that in mind, we've seen more than enough xb1 bashing in every way conceivable with or without backing to make your comparison point moot. Skewed, we must be living on different worlds.
The first thing you bring up doesn't even make sense... It 'IS' technically possible to fill your harddrive with a select number of games.. Yes you can replace it... And people should be informed on that, but it's really no ones responsibility to report that or clarify that beyond sony. If a news site, blog, poster, whatever doesn't report things as even handed as you would like, don't give them your views. Don't come into a thread about possible problems and start crying wolf about how much everyone is only complaining and not reporting the flip side. Mine seems loud, yours doesn't... So are we to say that one of us is correct and the other isn't? Or that perhaps mine has a problem and yours doesn't? Maybe yours is special and mine is not? All seem possible I suppose? And again, I don't understand your mission goal of every thing mentioned about each console being immediately compared to the other... Its not necessary.
I'm sorry, a designer you follow had a problem, and that should be reported? Why? Every single problem every single person claims as a problem should be reported by all outlets? Not even possible and I'm not sure why we'd even want/need that? And not being backwards compatible has been well known for both consoles for quite some time. Are you upset that we're not screaming the xb1 doesn't do it? If so, shouldn't we be screaming the ps4 doesn't as well?
Um, it does wobble. I don't like it... I don't think its earth shattering... But I am curious if say my cat decides to jump in the entertainment center and brushes that side if anything bad COULD happen. For the sake of argument, say something bad COULD happen, its a bad design choice and shouldn't have gone through (yes, its easily fixable by your own hand, but thats not really the point either). Otherwise, you're complaining about people overreacting (see your own posts), which is what most people do... And we've already seen more than enough for the xb1, and it hadn't even launched yet. And I guarantee we'll see even more now that is has launched and there are problems (some minor and some serious, and I've experienced both I'm sad to say as my forza thread posts can testify to).
It's only a design flaw if its not doing what it was intended to do... So unless we hear from one of the actual designers (will never happen) 'hey this isn't working right'... Then you're overreacting to a forum thread analyzing a design decision. We can come to as many conclusions as we want, but we didn't design it, so its kind of hard to say its a design flaw unless they say it, or it actually starts to cause problems (see rrod, ylod). Why you've even brought the xb1 into this part I don't understand. The thread and initial analysis wasn't made to compare the boxes. It's really starting to look like you're just trying to defend your favored electronic by saying someone else did it worse/different/whatever. Thats not quite how it works.
And again, we must visit completely different websites or live on different planets. The PS4 launched a week ahead... It had a full week to get blasted for any problems its going to have when live, The xb1 launched yesterday, its going to get blasted for its problems and has gotten blasted for MS missteps for quite awhile now.
That and your last paragraph are both just silly. We in no way need to compare both all the time... They don't need to be compared at every single turn for an article about them to be relevant. Man, I just can't get over how silly this really is. So, my xbox one has had game crashes a decent amount. I guess if I post something about it, I better say something negative about the ps4 as well, even though its totally unrelated in any way to the problem or point. Or, in the case of the this thread, the OP obviously should have blasted the xbox in his post because it had any relevance to his thread (which it didn't... he was talking ONLY about the ps4.... the xbox really had no reason to be in it).
We can be meticulous and crucial about things on a given console without comparing it to the other because its NOT NECESSARY to make a given point unless the point is to compare. We can easily talk about the power of the xbox one without ever talking about the ps4 being more powerful if the discussion was not meant to compare them, but instead to discuss the pros and cons of that system and only that system... Just like here we are discussing a PS4 design choice, that does NOT HAVE to immediately have any comparison to the xbox just for the sake of saying 'well, it may be wrong, or it may be right, but this other company did it this way, so theres that'. You seem to have an agenda my friend.
thewhitehawk
Member
All I said was that coverage seems to be skewed to the detriment of the Playstation 4. If you go to most major tech sites and see the coverage of both consoles you'll find that right now there are more negative reports about the Playstation 4 than the Xbox One. I don't think the difference is drastic, but it is noticeable.
For example, if you compare the wobble issue with the fact that you can't put the Xbox One vertical for me the later is a more relevant matter as, like with others, the space I have available around my television is relevant.
Secondly I've said "it seems" I'm not saying that my opinion is irrefutable beyond a shadow of a doubt and my arguments should be set in stone. My only agenda is that I want to see both sides represented in a fair manner. I was fortunate enough to own both consoles in the previous generations, and right now I own all consoles except for the PS4 and Xbox One (I will be picking up the PS4 on thursday evening).
The Xbox One, won't be available this year in my country but I'd like to wait a few years to see how Microsoft will continue to provide exclusives a few years from now because I think that their exclusive games lineup of the later years of the 360 was embarrassing when compared to the PS3's. Some media outlets feel that the Xbox One has the better launch lineup of the two new systems, and I agree, I also feel that way. But what I have seen no outlet mentioning is that the Xbox One's launch lineup is better to the detriment of the attention they gave the Xbox 360 this year, which was, barely non-existent and I think at least 3 of the Xbox One's launch titles were originally in development for the 360.
But I suppose saying that, even as an Xbox 360 owner, makes me a hater. If it wasn't for how well third-party games ran on the system, how cheaper it was throughout most of the console generation, I don't think Microsoft's exclusives enough would have been enough to give them as many sales as they got. Sony on the other hand had an upwards battle and through a lot of quality exclusive releases was able to catch up to Microsoft with an embarrassing number of great exclusives.
On the later half of the console's lifecycle Microsoft rushed their exclusives out the door with their pants down, like Fable 3 and Steel Battalion and the team that made Banjo Kazooie, or what's left of them, was left making Kinect sports games, the team that made Fable was left making horrible on-rails spinoffs of the franchise while I stared in shame and wondered where the next Blue Dragon, the next good Fable, the next Banjo Kazooie, the next Lost Odyssey. the next Tales of game.
You're absolutely right I have an agenda, I want great games and I want to see consumers and platforms being properly represented. That's my agenda. What kind of agenda do you think I have when I end up picking up most consoles available, even the Wii U? I just want great games.
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