• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Does your day 1 PS5 have hardware issues?

Is your launch day PS5 faulty?

  • I have a launch unit that has no hardware issues

    Votes: 389 56.7%
  • I have a launch unit that has hardware issues

    Votes: 73 10.6%
  • No PS5, no cry.

    Votes: 224 32.7%

  • Total voters
    686

Hostile_18

Banned
Jun 7, 2015
4,663
4,959
770
UK
Well, yes and no.
On pc usually you buy stuff from different brands and they don´t have the same manufacturing standards etc. while on the console although everything is set up by the same brand (Sony) the manufacturing of the elements that will go in there is done by different brands following the standards from Sony. In this case, it appears to be some bad batch of a particular component, it's up to Sony to exchange it or not.
With cars is the same thing, the clutch pedal from my car (Peugeot 308) is noisy, particularly in the summer, they already changed it 2 times and i won't hope for the 3rd, because it is clear by the huge ammount of posts in many forums, that when Peugeot set the standards for that component, they didn't care about the noise. It is after all, a plastic piece on a clutch pedal that is used a lot.

In future models I guess Sony in this instance will make the revision as it costs them money to swap or results in unhappy customers, neither of which is a good option. I can't imagine to fix it it will drastically increase the cost of manufacture (but obviously I'm no expert).
 

Loope

Member
Dec 7, 2020
774
980
295
Yeh if you have a GPU that you deem to have unacceptable coil whine not all vendors will even accept the RMA request.
I tried to exchange an AMD R265 from Asus,nope, we do not do that. Just like some monitors brands won't exchange the monitor if you have less than 3 dead pixels. Asus has this written pretty clear in their warranty pamphlet.
 

Hostile_18

Banned
Jun 7, 2015
4,663
4,959
770
UK
I tried to exchange an AMD R265 from Asus,nope, we do not do that. Just like some monitors brands won't exchange the monitor if you have less than 3 dead pixels. Asus has this written pretty clear in their warranty pamphlet.

Were lucky in the UK/EU anything bought online has a two week cooling off period you can return for any reason.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Blitzmangoman

Ozzie666

Member
Jun 27, 2020
578
534
295
My issue is the family is constantly playing it and not letting me play it! Seriously. Meanwhile my Series X is collecting dust :(
Playstation appears to be working flawlessly. However, when I first got it, I didn't push the HDMI cable fully in, it's a tight fit. This caused updating issues as I reset it due to black screen. I had to use USB update method.
Since then, it's been absolute bliss to play next gen games like Scott Pilgrim and Streets of Rage 4.
 
Last edited:

mortal

Member
Apr 1, 2016
6,628
14,693
840
10.5% is higher than I expected tbh, and that's just on Gaf.

I rarely get any gaming purchases on day one, hardware especially. It pays to wait a little longer imo
 

FrankWza

Member
Feb 14, 2013
4,474
4,377
725
I do it like that because theres so many rational playstation fans that I don't want to put them in the same boat as the handful of fanboys.

I've spent thousands on Sony products, played exclusively PS4/Pro last gen and LOVE Sony exclusives. But I just don't have the same gut/defensive stance if someone says something bad about them. For any game company even my favourite one I could list of loads of points about what they do well at and what they don't (and I do regularly).

Sure go for it make the poll options as similar to this as you can (just change PS5 to Serkes X) keep it private to allow for the same variance and don't mention the drama in this one (to keep results unbiased). It will be interesting to see. 😊
I don’t have any issues with someone saying something bad if they’re legitimate. This poll is obviously an easy way to hide legitimacy since we can’t see who voted. And I’m not making a thread with a poll about xb because I don’t have one. You do. So how about a poll that’s private? It can be about your curiosity about how you’ve had to exchange 4 ps5s but your launch series x is perfect and you’re curious if anyone else’s series x are perfect or have issues.
 

Hostile_18

Banned
Jun 7, 2015
4,663
4,959
770
UK
I don’t have any issues with someone saying something bad if they’re legitimate. This poll is obviously an easy way to hide legitimacy since we can’t see who voted. And I’m not making a thread with a poll about xb because I don’t have one. You do. So how about a poll that’s private? It can be about your curiosity about how you’ve had to exchange 4 ps5s but your launch series x is perfect and you’re curious if anyone else’s series x are perfect or have issues.

Well I and a fair few others have posted here and in the coil whine threads so its not completely secretive. I'll leave it up to other people to create a Series x thread honestly I'm sick of arguing/posting about it in general. I just want a PS5 I can be happy with.. which will hopefully be next week. For me it's been a horrible launch with the problems I've had. Look forward to getting past it.
 

FrankWza

Member
Feb 14, 2013
4,474
4,377
725
Well I and a fair few others have posted here and in the coil whine threads so its not completely secretive. I'll leave it up to other people to create a Series x thread honestly I'm sick of arguing/posting about it in general. I just want a PS5 I can be happy with.. which will hopefully be next week. For me it's been a horrible launch with the problems I've had. Look forward to getting past it.
Coil whine is a buzzing sound. If you've ever been near power lines you'll know what it sounds like. It seems to be a pretty common issue but depending on where you placed your system and how good your hearing is it might be a problem.
Maybe darkmage should make the private poll Xbox issues thread then? He did have a series x that died on him after all.
 
Last edited:

Heisenberg007

Member
Nov 16, 2020
2,538
8,531
455
this has been fixed long ago it feels like. through out december and this month i havent had any of these issues

Thanks! Sounds promising. I'm getting my PS5 next month, and I'm worried mainly about the rest mode issue (that's how I download games with my slow-ass internet).
 
Feb 11, 2015
1,041
1,300
610
Osaka Japan
I start having issues!!! Always buy day one consoles , this is first time with issues.

Games and all run perfectly well, but after I moved to Taiwan my PS5 would turn off instead of on from rest mode (not always)

I turned the automatic rest mode off and now the console just turn off in the middle of the night.

- it happens only after some days in rest mode , if I use the console constantly everyday no issues
- I wake up the console with the control. It goes from orange to blue and off.
- it start after I hookup Sony H900x earc
- or it started after I plug the headphones pulse 3D USB adapter.
- the console don’t show me any error when I turn it back on (like; console was turn off wrong etc)

today I took the USB adapter out gonna leave the console for some days and test.

it never crashed and I have played tons of games already
 
Last edited:

Night.Ninja

Banned
Feb 21, 2016
4,076
4,819
850
I'm in the US. I must say it was nice to get a box and packing material for shipping. I just hope that the coil whine is just manageable. It was just so irritating!

I thought Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem originally said his PS5 was silent. The coil whine issue is clearly a real thing. The Techtronic video showed the difference between the two power supplies of the XSX and PS5. I would have never guessed that some grey goop would make such a difference.
The video he posted said it was not the whole truth, I did find it was strange he was absent when the call to arms went out.

Thing about the PS5 coil whine certain people need to stop looking at it as Sony vs xbox.

These are billion dollar corporations, as individuals we are insignificant to them and if we are giving them money they need to held accountable when their products are not up to standard.

PC users have allowed them selves to be told that coil whine is normal by manufacturers as console owners we should not allow this to be our fate.

I understand that people are happy to own new consoles but to make up excuses for coil whine is embarrassing, if you don't say anything now how will Sony know to make revisions in the future.

Some times as humans we need to try and breakout of the natural tribalism and look at the bigger picture.
 

ReBurn

Member
Dec 6, 2008
13,015
4,168
1,240
SC USA
The video he posted said it was not the whole truth, I did find it was strange he was absent when the call to arms went out.

Thing about the PS5 coil whine certain people need to stop looking at it as Sony vs xbox.

These are billion dollar corporations, as individuals we are insignificant to them and if we are giving them money they need to held accountable when their products are not up to standard.

PC users have allowed them selves to be told that coil whine is normal by manufacturers as console owners we should not allow this to be our fate.

I understand that people are happy to own new consoles but to make up excuses for coil whine is embarrassing, if you don't say anything now how will Sony know to make revisions in the future.

Some times as humans we need to try and breakout of the natural tribalism and look at the bigger picture.
People said stuff about it on PS4 Pro and here we are. Sony doesn't care about coil whine.
 

THEAP99

reposts tweets from kids about console wars
Mar 16, 2020
4,186
11,177
710
Coil whine is not a hardware issue, but rather an annoyance. That's it. So no, my day one ps5 does not have hardware issues.

It does have software issues though where I am bored of games
 
  • Strength
Reactions: Rea
Update on my day 1 console from Playstation Direct. My green screen console crash got more frequent so I called Sony support. Took about an hour to get someone, but the lady on the other end was empathetic. She apologized frequently as I explained that I tried pretty much everything to fix it. Rebuild database, initialize, etc. She had a box sent for repair. I got it within two days and it went out yesterday. It is scheduled to arrive with SIE on Monday. Will update.
 

DarkMage619

Member
Jun 19, 2004
3,226
5,933
1,635
Maybe darkmage should make the private poll Xbox issues thread then? He did have a series x that died on him after all.
I'm not interested in looking for conspiracy theories. I'm sure there are defective Xboxes out there (I had one) but this thread is about the PS5. You should make the thread since you are the most knowledgeable about the Xbox.

Update on my day 1 console from Playstation Direct. My green screen console crash got more frequent so I called Sony support. Took about an hour to get someone, but the lady on the other end was empathetic. She apologized frequently as I explained that I tried pretty much everything to fix it. Rebuild database, initialize, etc. She had a box sent for repair. I got it within two days and it went out yesterday. It is scheduled to arrive with SIE on Monday. Will update.
Mine too! I wonder who will get their console back first? The race is on and I hope your replacement works great.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: cash_longfellow

Imtjnotu

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,694
12,523
690
san diego
Thanks! Sounds promising. I'm getting my PS5 next month, and I'm worried mainly about the rest mode issue (that's how I download games with my slow-ass internet).
when i got mine on launch day i had the external issue fairly often. then on the second patch it would happen once maybe every tenth time i turned it on. then on the third/last patch, i havent had it do it once. the rest most issue only happened to me twice but after the second patch nothing
 

Allforce

Member
Feb 29, 2012
4,260
537
1,000
Mine isn't Day 1 purchase but I've had it since Dec 23rd and didn't hook it up until after Xmas. Today I turned it on from rest mode and just had an entire screen of green vertical bars in various shades and degrees of pixelation. The "HDR" tag from my TV came up fine, and the audio was there but no image. Restarted, shut down, booted to Safe Mode, nothing.

Unplugged HDD and controller. Restarted, shut down, booted to Safe Mode, nothing.

Removed AC power and HDMI cable for 30+ seconds. Restarted, shut down, booted to Safe Mode, nothing.

Only thing that worked was doing a full restart of my TV (it has a "fast start" option that is activated). Haven't had any issues today but I'm betting on it recurring sooner rather than later.
 

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
Feb 10, 2020
17,086
79,749
965
35
Salalah, Oman
Evillore is a xbot



Its think its a high coil whine rate even Sony die hards like Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem has coil whine.

PS5 coil whine doesn't discriminate.

I thought Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem originally said his PS5 was silent. The coil whine issue is clearly a real thing. The Techtronic video showed the difference between the two power supplies of the XSX and PS5. I would have never guessed that some grey goop would make such a difference.

I think the mic catches more than what the human ears can, actually. But if you're some kind of a bat or you're Daredevil then yes you might have super hearing capabilities. It might only annoy someone sitting within 1 meter away with no AC, sound, nor a headset. Too much drama out of it especially for people that who don't own the console. If that is noisy then you should ask PC gamers about their PC's in game mode.

Is it more silent than Xbox SX or vice versa? Don't know, never seen an Xbox SX in person and I doubt I will in the next 2-3 years, at least. If you're some weirdo who plays games with no game sounds nor headsets then I think you have issues beyond gaming.

This doesn't include the ones with the real, noisy coil whine.
 
Last edited:
  • LOL
Reactions: Kamina
Mine too! I wonder who will get their console back first? The race is on and I hope your replacement works great.
Hopefully we both get them as quick as possible..I seriously don't know what to do with myself. Since I traded my ps4 a few weeks ago, the only thing I have aside from an unopened SNES Mini is a SNES emulator and my ps2, lol. I hope yours works great as well!
 
  • Love
Reactions: DarkMage619

FrankWza

Member
Feb 14, 2013
4,474
4,377
725
I'm not interested in looking for conspiracy theories. I'm sure there are defective Xboxes out there (I had one) but this thread is about the PS5. You should make the thread since you are the most knowledgeable about the Xbox.
this makes no sense. I don’t have an Xbox and you had one that died on you. when you make the thread make sure the polls private ;)
 
Last edited:

njean777

Member
Mar 12, 2009
10,020
506
1,205
The only thing I have so far is the disc issue with having to eject and re-insert the disc upon start up for the ps5 to recognize the game. I think this is because I have an external hdd attached to it. Isn't a big issue so far, hopefully this is a software issue and not a hardware issue.
 

DarkMage619

Member
Jun 19, 2004
3,226
5,933
1,635
this makes no sense. I don’t have an Xbox and you had one that died on you. when you make the thread make sure the polls private ;)
All this time with the knowledge you were dropping about Game pass I thought you were on the Xbox development team. If you don't have an Xbox you shouldn't care whether they work or not right? My Xbox works great and my PS5 is away for repairs so this thread is relevant for me.
 

Kamina

Golden Boy
Jun 2, 2013
8,187
7,508
985
35
Austria
Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem listening to his PS5:

 

Hostile_18

Banned
Jun 7, 2015
4,663
4,959
770
UK
Is it more silent than Xbox SX or vice versa? Don't know, never seen an Xbox SX in person and I doubt I will in the next 2-3 years, at least. If you're some weirdo who plays games with no game sounds nor headsets then I think you have issues beyond gaming.

This doesn't include the ones with the real, noisy coil whine.

Disagree with the bolded bud. I know lots of people (the majority) that play without headsets. Also games don't always have music playing, at least the types of games I play. The use of quiet scenes is essential for any kind of cinematic storytelling.
 

bosnianpie

Member
Feb 27, 2018
342
507
350
Sweden
Had mine for a month now and no hardware issues. Miles Morales crashed once but that's about it. I expected more problems.
 
Jun 11, 2019
154
180
295
Mine isn't Day 1 purchase but I've had it since Dec 23rd and didn't hook it up until after Xmas. Today I turned it on from rest mode and just had an entire screen of green vertical bars in various shades and degrees of pixelation. The "HDR" tag from my TV came up fine, and the audio was there but no image. Restarted, shut down, booted to Safe Mode, nothing.

Unplugged HDD and controller. Restarted, shut down, booted to Safe Mode, nothing.

Removed AC power and HDMI cable for 30+ seconds. Restarted, shut down, booted to Safe Mode, nothing.

Only thing that worked was doing a full restart of my TV (it has a "fast start" option that is activated). Haven't had any issues today but I'm betting on it recurring sooner rather than later.

A tv reboot fixed it ?

try a different hdmi port, or even possibly the cable then 👍. (Could something clunky with the hdmi handshake. Or even power on wake up through the port)
 
  • Like
Reactions: dcmk7

guuub

Neo Member
Nov 14, 2020
5
2
105
Crashes here and there, nothing crazy. Played through DeS and Spidey.

Audio dropout issues / hdmi issues, but I’m also dealing with x900h tv and the known issues there.

Controller is an issue though. O button is sticking bad so will need to get a replacement. I take as a bad sign for these Dualsenses in the long run.
 

HercRaato

Member
Jun 24, 2014
58
11
450
I keep see the high failure rate people are talking about. I have 3 launch units with no issues but voted once as no issues. I realize it's anecdotal but I don't think everyone is keeping people with multiples in mind.
 

skit_data

Member
Nov 3, 2020
2,180
5,283
425
No hardware issues, a couple of crashes in Demons Souls before it got patched. Sometimes it wouldnt boot before i restarted the console. Everything has worked pretty much seamlessly since the last OS patches.

I have the Digital Edition and the only time I heard the console make a noticable sound was when my gf spent a couple of hours in Bugsnax. For some reason the game seem to cause an increase in fan speed more than any other game.
 

DarkMage619

Member
Jun 19, 2004
3,226
5,933
1,635
You mean your replacement Xbox after your first one died? Where’s the thread that you posted about that in? Mind posting a link?
If you'd like to make a thread about the Xbox you can. You seem to have a great deal of interest in that platform.

Hostile_18 Hostile_18 out of all your PS5s which had the least amount of coil whine? If you could take back one of the earlier ones would you? Could you hear the difference in the noise based on what you were playing?
 

FrankWza

Member
Feb 14, 2013
4,474
4,377
725
Mine too! I wonder who will get their console back first? The race is on and I hope your replacement works great.
If you'd like to make a thread about the Xbox you can. You seem to have a great deal of interest in that platform.

Hostile_18 Hostile_18 out of all your PS5s which had the least amount of coil whine? If you could take back one of the earlier ones would you? Could you hear the difference in the noise based on what you were playing?
Since you have first hand knowledge with defective consoles from Sony and Microsoft it’s best for you to make that thread. You’re also experienced in the return process with Microsoft since you had a series x die on you. This same information you’re asking hostile about is something you can answer in a Xbox thread about hardware issues. You also claimed to me that you’re not a fan of either but you’re a game fan and gamer and are 100% split down the middle. Just figured you to be the perfect candidate to make a similar thread for Xbox hardware issues with a private poll. Don’t you want to help others the way your being helped here in this thread?
 
Jan 30, 2019
406
490
285
i don't think i have hardware issues. I do have a few issues though. My front usb ports will not charge my controllers in rest mode. i think that may be software issue though and hell could be resolved now. after beating spiderman and demons souls i havent played much. the next is GOOD GRIEF the bluray drive sounds AWFUL when playing games from it. it is the loudest game console i've ever had and sounds like it's going to grind the disc to death when playing a disc game. I hope that's not an actual issue and just the way it's supposed to sound lolol
 
  • Empathy
Reactions: dcmk7

DarkMage619

Member
Jun 19, 2004
3,226
5,933
1,635
Since you have first hand knowledge with defective consoles from Sony and Microsoft it’s best for you to make that thread. You’re also experienced in the return process with Microsoft since you had a series x die on you. This same information you’re asking hostile about is something you can answer in a Xbox thread about hardware issues. You also claimed to me that you’re not a fan of either but you’re a game fan and gamer and are 100% split down the middle. Just figured you to be the perfect candidate to make a similar thread for Xbox hardware issues with a private poll. Don’t you want to help others the way your being helped here in this thread?
You are doing far more for the Xbox community than I ever could. The thread about the Xbox was made so you can go there and enlighten the people about the platform. Make sure you explain the Game pass pricing structure to them as well.
 

FrankWza

Member
Feb 14, 2013
4,474
4,377
725
You are doing far more for the Xbox community than I ever could. The thread about the Xbox was made so you can go there and enlighten the people about the platform. Make sure you explain the Game pass pricing structure to them as well.
You mean where I gave Xbox too much credit and said it was $1 a month for 3 years but it’s actually $1 TOTAL for 3 years? Apples and bowling balls. Gamepass has nothing to do with defects. Reading an article about gamepass pricing and having an Xbox are 2 different things. You don’t need first hand knowledge to know that they’re giving away gamepass for $1 or .03 cents a month for 3 years to pad their numbers against the ps now comparison YOU brought up in that thread. You do need to have a console in your possession to speak to its hardware issues. You had an Xbox series x that died on you. Did you not?Make a thread and help others the same way you are requesting help here with your defective Ps5. Just make sure it’s a private poll. Because I seem to recall you claiming to be a true gamer with no allegiance towards any console. Am I wrong? Help your fellow gamers.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: dcmk7

FrankWza

Member
Feb 14, 2013
4,474
4,377
725
GOOD GRIEF the bluray drive sounds AWFUL when playing games from it. it is the loudest game console i've ever had and sounds like it's going to grind the disc to death when playing a disc game. I hope that's not an actual issue and just the way it's supposed to sound lolol
That’s not how it’s supposed to sound. I would look into a replacement.
it is most noisy during installs. During gameplay it authenticates now and then and you hear the drive but no grinding.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Manwithoutfear

DarkMage619

Member
Jun 19, 2004
3,226
5,933
1,635
You mean where I gave Xbox too much credit and said it was $1 a month for 3 years but it’s actually $1 TOTAL for 3 years? Apples and bowling balls. Gamepass has nothing to do with defects. Reading an article about gamepass pricing and having an Xbox are 2 different things. You don’t need first hand knowledge to know that they’re giving away gamepass for $1 or .03 cents a month for 3 years to pad their numbers against the ps now comparison YOU brought up in that thread. You do need to have a console in your possession to speak to its hardware issues. You had an Xbox series x that died on you. Did you not?Make a thread and help others the same way you are requesting help here with your defective Ps5. Just make sure it’s a private poll. Because I seem to recall you claiming to be a true gamer with no allegiance towards any console. Am I wrong? Help your fellow gamers.
My Xbox works great and my PS5 is in Sony's hands. I hope they send me out one that is half a silent as my Xbox. There is really no excuse for the coil whine. It's not like the solution didn't exist prior to them releasing the console.
 

FrankWza

Member
Feb 14, 2013
4,474
4,377
725
My Xbox works great and my PS5 is in Sony's hands. I hope they send me out one that is half a silent as my Xbox. There is really no excuse for the coil whine. It's not like the solution didn't exist prior to them releasing the console.
No. Your REPLACEMENT Xbox is working great SO FAR. Don’t you want to know if anyone else is in your shoes? Who’s on their second series x? Who had one die on them? How’s their replacement been so far....? Be a gamer...be you.
 
  • Praise the Sun
  • Fire
Reactions: GHG and dcmk7

DarkMage619

Member
Jun 19, 2004
3,226
5,933
1,635
No. Your REPLACEMENT Xbox is working great SO FAR. Don’t you want to know if anyone else is in your shoes? Who’s on their second series x? Who had one die on them? How’s their replacement been so far....? Be a gamer...be you.
It's interesting to see your interest in a console you don't have. When I came in to this thread it was to talk about my experience with the PS5. Something I actually own. When you came to talk about Game pass or the Xbox in general it was to talk about something you don't really know anything about. That of course didn't stop you from making comments regardless. That is the difference between us.

If you want to share about your Xbox experiences there is a now a thread dedicated to Xbox and its hardware issues so you can go in there and inform the people about your vast knowledge of the Xbox. There is no need for me to go there to talk about the coil whine issues I and many other gamers have had with the PS5. That discussion won't hurt you I promise.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Redlight and Riky

FrankWza

Member
Feb 14, 2013
4,474
4,377
725
You mean where I gave Xbox too much credit and said it was $1 a month for 3 years but it’s actually $1 TOTAL for 3 years? Apples and bowling balls. Gamepass has nothing to do with defects. Reading an article about gamepass pricing and having an Xbox are 2 different things. You don’t need first hand knowledge to know that they’re giving away gamepass for $1 or .03 cents a month for 3 years to pad their numbers against the ps now comparison YOU brought up in that thread. You do need to have a console in your possession to speak to its hardware issues. You had an Xbox series x that died on you. Did you not?Make a thread and help others the same way you are requesting help here with your defective Ps5. Just make sure it’s a private poll. Because I seem to recall you claiming to be a true gamer with no allegiance towards any console. Am I wrong? Help your fellow gamers.
It's interesting to see your interest in a console you don't have. When I came in to this thread it was to talk about my experience with the PS5. Something I actually own. When you came to talk about Game pass or the Xbox in general it was to talk about something you don't really know anything about. That of course didn't stop you from making comments regardless. That is the difference between us.

If you want to share about your Xbox experiences there is a now a thread dedicated to Xbox and its hardware issues so you can go in there and inform the people about your vast knowledge of the Xbox. There is no need for me to go there to talk about the coil whine issues I and many other gamers have had with the PS5. That discussion won't hurt you I promise.
I’m quoting myself because it covers what you’re bringing up here. Once again, I don’t need to have an Xbox to discuss gamepass pricing and number padding. It’s also available on pc, isnt it? It isn’t for me to discuss Xbox hardware issues because I don’t have an Xbox, let alone an Xbox series x that died and needed replacing like you did. You have first hand knowledge about both consoles defects and hardware issues. You’re also split exactly down the middle and have no hardware allegiances. That was your claim. Too bad you let someone else make the thread. Good luck with your replacement PS5. Look forward to seeing you in one of the PS5 exclusives threads one of these days when one comes out that you purchase and wish to discuss.