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Don’t talk to aliens, warns Stephen Hawking

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My take is that any alien civilization capable of intergalactic travel has also hit their technological singularity, and aren't really at a want for resources... they'll also have figured out how to manage what they have in the most sustainable manner possible, and provided virtualization technologies that allow their citizens to experience most of 'life' without directly using resources.

A civilization that achieves that will pretty much be travelling for shits and giggles and curiosity.
 
If Earth became inhabitable and we had to leave, I doubt we'd think twice about exterminating any extraterrestrial species, intelligent or not, on a planet we wanted to colonize. Thinking about this makes me wonder if any intelligent alien life has been able to coexist in the Universe on the same planet or within a relatively short distance of another alien species. My first guess would be yes, given that the Universe is so massive, but then the number of times one wiped out the other would surely dwarf the number of times aliens were able to live peaceably.

That brings up the question. How can we film these alien wars and make it into prime time television?
 
Somebody should post that meeting aliens guide that was posted on GAF a while ago.

That jpeg is kind of asinine in that it assumes a whole lot. While those rules would make for a cool sci-fi movie I guess... or maybe some young adult literature, it basically presumes that the nature of life in the universe is altruistic and that advancement and peacefulness develop in parallel with one another.

I fail to see the evidence of that.
 
I've already said the same thing on these forums.

There is nothing about the nature of the way life evolved on this planet that suggests contact with a species from another origin of life will be peaceful.

Life grows, expands, and conquers in order to exist. Given that the universe itself is hostile to life, we should expect that all other origins will impress this struggle onto all of its evolved lifeforms.

No intelligent species would contact us under a benign pretense.
 
I agree the likelihood of alien life is high, almost certain. But I find it far fetched that humanity would be devasted by aliens harvesting Earth for resources. Any life form mastering interstellar travel is unlikely to need for much beyond energy I imagine, and if that is the case they would be more interested in tapping into stars.

I also agree with some here that intelligent aliens might not have empathy or an ethical or moral code which would stop them trampling us should we "get in the way". That being said, it pains me that we are unlikely to find even unintelligent life outside of Earth in my lifetime.
 
KidGalactus said:
That jpeg is kind of asinine in that it assumes a whole lot. While those rules would make for a cool sci-fi movie I guess... or maybe some young adult literature, it basically presumes that the nature of life in the universe is altruistic and that advancement and peacefulness develop in parallel with one another.

I fail to see the evidence of that.


You would say that, you tiny eater of worlds.

New School Space Racism is Back.
 
it makes sense that if there were a race of aliens with the capability of interstellar travel that they would be more likely to harm us than be peaceful. more reasons to conquer than help, even though yeah were are probably just insects in comparison. if they have anything in c common with humans then there wouldbe a good chance that their space tech was born from whatever they would have as a military anyway, where would human space tech be at now if the 80s star wars program really got going and other countries ramped up in defense.
 
I disagree with Hawkins a bit. I think that aliens advanced enough to build ships capable of traveling between solar systems, which would probably be done via worm holes or "warping", would have figured out a way of gaining resources in the most simplest of ways and wouldn't need us or any other civilizations to depend on. This just makes it sound like advanced parasites.

I do agree however with the last statement by Lord Rees in that other advanced races are beyond our comprehension and we may not be able to communicate with them or for that matter conceive them. I think it was theoretical physicist Michio Kaku who even said that aliens may be nearby and we can't even perceive them.
 
It's what I've been saying all along: interstellar radio propagation will be our doom!

Can't wait to see Hawking's documentary.
 
I disagree with the whole premise of us not been smart enough to percieve aliens or figure them out. It's kinda like the old line about us not been smart enough to divine god's intentions.

Bullshit really.

Sure, you need a requisite amount of intelligence... enough that you can build upon the intelligence of others systematically.

And that's it really... once you can do that, then it's simply a matter of the rate at which we discover the universe's secrets.

There have been multiple inventions in the past that has helped with this; language, writing, books, paper, printing press, education, computers...

We're less than 100 years out from our own technological singularity given the accelerating rate of computer and AI advancement... when we hit that, our ability to comprehend and understand will also grow exponentially.

When that occurs, we will be more alien to ourselves now than our current conception of aliens are to us.
 
Any chances of aliens looking like this

zxzb5.jpg
 
I don't know, for some reason I think alien species would be more similar to us than a lot of people expect. For one, they would have had to have evolved in a manner at least somewhat similar to us, and that would bring about commonalities. Our views on morality (and many of our worldviews in general) are shaped in large part by our evolutionary history, and an environment that could produce an intelligent species would not be so different from our own as to produce a completely different way of thinking. We might share basic ideas like fairness, blame, reciprocation, or retaliation, for example (reciprocal altruism for instance has evolved in a ton of species of earth - if it's evolutionarily stable here, why couldn't it be there?). An understanding of causality, that events have causes and can be predicted and controlled, would certainly be present in any intelligent alien species. I'm sure there'd be others as well.

More importantly, though, any species advanced enough to travel through the stars our detect our presence in some way would have to be civilized - I use both senses of the word here. Obviously they'd have had to have built some kind of civilization in order to have created their technology. But the root word of civilization is civil, and the fact that they can cooperate enough to form a functioning society would imply a great deal about their psychological make up. For one, it would mean that they are, if not completely peaceful, at least capable of peace and understand the concept of peace. They'd have other things too, probably: a concept of fairness, some understanding of logic, and maybe an ability to suppress urges in anticipation of greater reward later. After all, it's difficult to imagine a society evolving without these kinds of traits present. Now granted, there would be differences between our civilization and an alien one, maybe large ones. My point is: technology requires civilization, and civilization requires civility to some degree. Moreover, there are bound to be certain universal characteristics (things mentioned like logic, fairness, patience, etc) that are simply required for the formation of a society. That is, any species that didn't have such characteristics simply wouldn't form a society. Therefore, we'd have to share at least some things in common with an advanced alien species. Maybe more than we'd think. Could such species still be dangerous to us? Of course. They could be internally peaceful but violently xenophobic. They could be desperate for resources. Any number of possibilities. But I think if we could sit down and talk with them, we might be surprised at how many viewpoints we share.
 
Zaptruder said:
I disagree with the whole premise of us not been smart enough to percieve aliens or figure them out. It's kinda like the old line about us not been smart enough to divine god's intentions.

Bullshit really.

I consider it to be more along the lines of how these aliens exist and communicate. What if they communicate through telepathy? And what if they exist in a timeframe/state different to ours? I don't find it too hard to believe that stuff like that is beyond human comprehension.
 
Darkmakaimura said:
I disagree with Hawkins a bit. I think that aliens advanced enough to build ships capable of traveling between solar systems, which would probably be done via worm holes or "warping", would have figured out a way of gaining resources in the most simplest of ways and wouldn't need us or any other civilizations to depend on. This just makes it sound like advanced parasites.


There are many more reasons to conquer, enslave or annihilate than the mere quest for resources.

They could conceivably treat Humans in the same way we treat all other forms of life on this planet, which of course includes the following:

- Raw building material.
- Consumption as a necessity or a delicacy.
- Recreational drugs.
- Integrated into ideological traditions (ie. religious/traditional bush meat.)
- Domestication as pets.
- Extermination as pests.
- Slave labour or tools of war.
- Sex toys.
- Experimental test subjects (both scientific and cosmetic).
- Game hunting.
- Possibly other reasons I can't think of at the moment.

We've turned dogs and elephants into weapons, eat tiger penises as aprhodesiacs, smoke up psychadelic plants, exterminate mosquitoes, rats and locusts, clearcut rainforests, keep birds in small cages, use monkeys as test subjects, hang deer and lion heads over the fireplace, and wear leather jackets or fur coats.

This is just things that we know how to do, who knows what another species from another origin of life may come up with.
 
Atrus said:
There are many more reasons to conquer, enslave or annihilate than the mere quest for resources.

They could conceivably treat Humans in the same way we treat all other forms of life on this planet, which of course includes the following:

- Raw building material.
- Consumption as a necessity or a delicacy.
- Recreational drugs.
- Integrated into ideological traditions (ie. religious/tradional bush meat.)
- Domestication as pets.
- Extermination as pests.
- Slave labour or tools of war.
- Sex toys.
- Experimental test subjects (both scientific and cosmetic).
- Game hunting.
- Possibly other reasons I can't think of at the moment.

We've turned dogs and elephants into weapons, eat tiger penises as aprhodesiacs, smoke up psychadelic plants, exterminate mosquitoes, rats and locusts, clearcut rainforests, keep birds in small cages, use monkeys as test subjects, hang deer and lion heads over the fireplace, and wear leather jackets or fur coats.

This is just things that we know how to do, who knows what another species from another origin of life may come up with.

You're basically projecting your own foibles onto an imaginary space capable civilization, rather than thinking rationally about what it would take to become a space faring civizliation that makes contact with us.
 
KamenSenshi said:
it makes sense that if there were a race of aliens with the capability of interstellar travel that they would be more likely to harm us than be peaceful. more reasons to conquer than help, even though yeah were are probably just insects in comparison. if they have anything in c common with humans then there wouldbe a good chance that their space tech was born from whatever they would have as a military anyway, where would human space tech be at now if the 80s star wars program really got going and other countries ramped up in defense.


Actually, the idea that an alien race would conquer us makes little sense.

From wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_travel#The_difficulties_of_interstellar_travel

The velocity for a manned round trip of a few decades to even the nearest star is thousands of times greater than those of the present space vehicles. This means that due to the square law, millions of times as much energy is required. Accelerating one ton to one-tenth of the speed of light requires at least 450 PJ or 4.5 × 1017 J or 125 billion kWh, not accounting for losses. This energy has to be carried along, as solar panels do not work far from the Sun and other stars.

There is some belief that the magnitude of this energy may make interstellar travel impossible. It is reported that at the 2008 Joint Propulsion Conference, where future space propulsion challenges were discussed and debated, a conclusion was reached that it is improbable that humans will ever explore beyond the Solar System. Brice N. Cassenti, an associate professor with the Department of Engineering and Science at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, stated “At least 100 times the total energy output of the entire world would be required for the voyage (to Alpha Centauri)” [1]

That's the closest star to our own solar system, and it requires 100 times all of our energy.

Can you imagine how much energy a society that can accomplish distant interstellar travel will have at their disposal?

Simply put, they will be post-scarcity, and they will have no use for our resources. In fact, our cultural output will probably be the only thing that can have any value to them.
 
Um, with the amount of radio waves that leave our planet on a regular basis, super intelligent galactic civilizations would probably have no problem detecting us, regardless of whether we try to intentionally reach out to them or not.

Basically, they can easily find us if they are there and if they are looking. And they can easily wipe us out at any moment, if they wanted to. So there is no use worrying about it, nothing we do can change anything.
 
Zaptruder said:
I disagree with the whole premise of us not been smart enough to percieve aliens or figure them out. It's kinda like the old line about us not been smart enough to divine god's intentions.

Bullshit really.

Sure, you need a requisite amount of intelligence... enough that you can build upon the intelligence of others systematically.

And that's it really... once you can do that, then it's simply a matter of the rate at which we discover the universe's secrets.

There have been multiple inventions in the past that has helped with this; language, writing, books, paper, printing press, education, computers...

We're less than 100 years out from our own technological singularity given the accelerating rate of computer and AI advancement... when we hit that, our ability to comprehend and understand will also grow exponentially.

When that occurs, we will be more alien to ourselves now than our current conception of aliens are to us.

I'm guessing the original comment was made in line with our current abilities and assumptions about what alien life might constitute. Our origins and physiology prejudice us towards expecting intelligent alien life to have a physicality and mental ability that we can relate to and presuming we will have a medium to communicate back and forth.

If you consider that intelligent alien life might be fundamentally different in nature e.g. of gaseous or an energy based form, not carbon based, existing at very large or very small scales, existing in environments we currently consider unable to support life, or "thinking" at a rate exponentially faster or slower than us etc it might take a very long time for us to even notice it is "there" and a long time still before we might "understand" it (especially if we are not able to find a way to communicate easily or at all).

We might have the means to find it, but not necessarily the right frame of mind to find or understand it.
 
Zaptruder said:
You're basically projecting your own foibles onto an imaginary space capable civilization, rather than thinking rationally about what it would take to become a space faring civizliation that makes contact with us.

My list is only a short-list of possibilities just based off of experiences of life on this planet. Life arising on another origin point will have a plethora of other reasons that will extend the possibilities even further.

There is nothing 'rational' about the premise of an intelligent and benign space faring civilization wanting to make contact with us, at least no reason that would bring into question their level of 'intelligence'.
 
I want to see a grey alien.

I remember I was really heartbroken once...got out of a messy relationship and it pretty much consumed me. never thought I would ever get over it. so I decided to go online and research aliens just to get my mind of shit. I saw a bunch of clips of grey aliens that left me paralyzed from fear. for a month straight I was scared shittless that grey aliens would abduct me and I completely forgot about the break up.

so thank you grey aliens. you helped me get over my ex

but I just recently got out of another break up

so someone post a pic of a really scary grey.
 
Atrus said:
My list is only a short-list of possibilities just based off of experiences of life on this planet. Life arising on another origin point will have a plethora of other reasons that will extend the possibilities even further.

There is nothing 'rational' about the premise of an intelligent and benign space faring civilization wanting to make contact with us, at least no reason that would bring into question their level of 'intelligence'.


Here's the thing: all of the way life interacts on this planet is ruled by scarcity of resources. For an alien race to even be capable of physically traveling to us, they will have more energy at their disposal than they know what to do with. They will be post-scarcity, and our resources will be of no value whatsoever to them.

In fact, the energy they will have to spend to get to our planet is likely to never be recovered using the resources on our planet, so they will end up on the losing side if they come here for resources.
 
Atrus said:
There is nothing 'rational' about the premise of an intelligent and benign space faring civilization wanting to make contact with us, at least no reason that would bring into question their level of 'intelligence'.

What about science? We spend a great deal of money and effort here on earth searching for life deep beneath the oceans, and it is done out of nothing more than scientific curiosity.

If the alien civilization is heavily influenced by science itself, then I don't see why they can't be benign. The most likely case in this situation would be that they simply observe us without interfering though.
 
Inflammable Slinky said:
Here's the thing: all of the way life interacts on this planet is ruled by scarcity of resources. For an alien race to even be capable of physically traveling to us, they will have more energy at their disposal than they know what to do with. They will be post-scarcity, and our resources will be of no value whatsoever to them.

In fact, the energy they will have to spend to get to our planet is likely to never be recovered using the resources on our planet, so they will end up on the losing side if they come here for resources.

Does this not assume that their method of space travel is limited to our understanding of space? Does this also not assume that resouces are limited to atomic elements?

The premise here is that the aliens will be making contact with us. To do so would require an intention, and there is no reason to assume that this intent is because humans are special in any way. The very idea is narcissistic and full of conceit.

Aliens are just as likely to wipe us out because we are the only other lifeform they've contacted in as much as they would be intrigued by us.
 
Frank the Great said:
What about science? We spend a great deal of money and effort here on earth searching for life deep beneath the oceans, and it is done out of nothing more than scientific curiosity.

If the alien civilization is heavily influenced by science itself, then I don't see why they can't be benign. The most likely case in this situation would be that they simply observe us without interfering though.
i wish.
 
Atrus said:
Does this not assume that their method of space travel is limited to our understanding of space? Does this also not assume that resouces are limited to atomic elements?

The premise here is that the aliens will be making contact with us. To do so would require an intention, and there is no reason to assume that this intent is because humans are special in any way. The very idea is narcissistic and full of conceit.

Aliens are just as likely to wipe us out because we are the only other lifeform they've contacted in as much as they would be intrigued by us.

It assumes that they have to travel a path of development and that they are evolved planetside where relatively steady and life-enabling chemical reactions are much more readily available.

Right now, it seems more like an exercise in imagining possibilities rather than any sort of rational attempt at approximating what viable lifeforms might be out there (taking into account how life and civilization develops).

You might be right of course; maybe lifeforms can evolve in ways far different from what we've experienced to date; but I think that despite the gaps in our knowledge, we have reached the point where we are able to make semi-accurate guesses at how other life outside of our own planet might arise.
 
I subscribe to the theory that any alien civilization with advanced enough technology to travel inter-solar distances at near the speed of light would not even bother contacting us. Why would they bother when they could mine any of the billions of planets not inhabited? They would have developed eternal life spans, entertainment capabilities beyond comprehension, robots capable of doing all menial tasks, etc. etc. etc. Who cares about some planet that cannot even muster enough money to return to its own moon?

Even if you subscribe to the theory that they might want to wipe us out to keep us from posing an eventual threat to them, don't you think they would have advanced enough technology to retard our progress in that area, without us even knowing?
 
Atrus said:
Does this not assume that their method of space travel is limited to our understanding of space? Does this also not assume that resouces are limited to atomic elements?

The premise here is that the aliens will be making contact with us. To do so would require an intention, and there is no reason to assume that this intent is because humans are special in any way. The very idea is narcissistic and full of conceit.

Aliens are just as likely to wipe us out because we are the only other lifeform they've contacted in as much as they would be intrigued by us.


Regardless of their method of travel or their resources, what on earth could they want that they would not easily be able to acquire from far closer planets?
 
teh_pwn said:
I think it's more likely that advanced alien life would look at us like we look at ants. They won't care. If not, Hawking has a point. Either way, we're full of ourselves to think that benevolent beings will come down to earth and be peaceful.

This. If any intelligent life visits us, there is virtually no chance they will view us as a threat. Hell . . . they've mastered inter-stellar travel. We've got microwave popcorn.

I think they would be peaceful unless they wanted to use our planetary resources. Then they would just wipe us away the way we wipe out forests in order to get the resources they desire.
 
Frank the Great said:
What about science? We spend a great deal of money and effort here on earth searching for life deep beneath the oceans, and it is done out of nothing more than scientific curiosity.

If the alien civilization is heavily influenced by science itself, then I don't see why they can't be benign. The most likely case in this situation would be that they simply observe us without interfering though.

Many assumptions here too.

Another species may not have been under the same pressures as we do in order to advance. They may have acquired their technology from an extinct civlization. They may have been so advanced and spent so much time in space, they may have hit a scientific wall that has lead them into a nihilistic viewpoint of the existence, viewing inert matter as no different than matter organized into living organisms, or worse they may feel antagonized by the very presence of other sentient life.

They may have surged in the sciences due to existential pressures such as war or natural cataclysm, intertwining scientific advance and discovery with natural aggression.

This again is just off of what we know, and does not account for a multitude of things, ideas and activities we won't even know about.

Just because something pursues science does not mean it will be benign. Even for our own merits, we advance sciences based on the benefits it will provide us. We don't prioritize a study on blades of grass over finding a cure for cancer.
 
im just saying that even if they dont have a "need"
to contact or conqure us that doesn't mean they won't. even if we assume that they are only their planets equivalent to humans as the supposed highest form of life or most intelligent on the planet that could give them reason. why do humans capture animals for zoos or hunt deer, at this point its not exactly a necessity, we do it because we can. even if we would not matter much to them as a need, if they came across us can we really say its more likely they would just be peaceful or would they at least take a few for show the way a human might try and bring a snake or something from their trip to the amazon.
 
Inflammable Slinky said:
Regardless of their method of travel or their resources, what on earth could they want that they would not easily be able to acquire from far closer planets?

Who knows? They could simply do so because we are there, in the same way mountains are summited, or they may simply not want us to be there.

Why does a human intentionally crush a wandering insect?
 
Hari Seldon said:
Even if you subscribe to the theory that they might want to wipe us out to keep us from posing an eventual threat to them, don't you think they would have advanced enough technology to retard our progress in that area, without us even knowing?
Now I understand the Tea Party movement!
 
I'm no UFO fanatic, but it seems pretty clear to me that there's gotta be life out there in the vastness of space. Hell, even from a religious stand point people should get this. If there is a God, I'm sure this entire universe wasn't made just for us...

Also, "Get to the choppa!?"
 
Medalion said:
Hawking is an intergalactic robot semi-confirmed
Hawking is an alien time-traveler hiding his identity confirmed.

And any aliens reaching us would probably have to have extremely long lifespans or faster-than-light travel (which by our knowledge is impossible). The nearest star to us is 4.2 light years away so that's a >4.2 year trip from our nearest possible neighbors if they can travel extremely close to the speed of light.

In my opinion we should just keep making more sophisticated telescopes such as Hubble and we might see more cool stuff; worrying about aliens is silly, albeit fun to discuss :P.
 
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