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[Dr_Cogent]

The mentality that you're gimped if you can't run the latest game at absolute max settings is bullshit. The difference between medium or medium-high and HYPER XTREME settings isn't so incredible visually but it is an incredible expense on your wallet to keep up.

No, it's gimped if you build it and it can't even play the recent games out today with relatively good settings.

Buying a cheapo PC won't allow you to experience most games as they should be, and that's not even at absolute max settings.

Also, you never answered my question.

So, let me ask you, what do you think a brand spankin new machine should cost you today? If you were to build a new machine, that you consider decent for todays games and maybe games 6 months down the road, what do you figure it would cost you?

If you can't play at 1024*768 with moderate AA settings and moderate visual options, I would say - that's gimped.

 

[bee]

Recently upgraded a friends pc , got him a

athlon64 x2 3800 (overclocked both cores to 2.7ghz)
2gb geil ram
dfi motherboard
ati x1800xt (650/1600)

all that cost around £540 and we get ripped off in the uk so i would imagine that would work out as a straight conversion to $540 , now hes got a pc that is close to the very top of the range barring sli bullshit.

people vastly overplay how much it is to upgrade pc's.

 

[Ronok]

Whilst you guys on on the subject of PC's and upgrades.... What do you think of:

http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/98587
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/881...FQFDPgodHCFEBQ
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/110044

 

[ToxicAdam]

Comeback is a relative term. It's been beaten down so much recently, a surge in sales would have to be expected at some point.

As long as there are old dudes playing games, there will be PC gaming. I just can't fathom a 12 yr old going out and being a hardcore PC gamer. There is too much variety and ease of use with consoles.


It's too bad there isn't a Commodore 64 type machine for this generation to be introduced to PC gaming.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"If you can't play at 1024*768 with moderate AA settings and moderate visual options, I would say - that's gimped."

It's funny that that's your standard for "non-gimpery," considering you could pull that off with a 7600GT (a 180 dollar card), an AMD64 3200+ (a 180 dollar processor), and 200 dollars worth of RAM. Much less than your "decent" 300 dollar video card, etc.

 

[EviLore]

No, it's gimped if you build it and it can't even play the recent games out today with relatively good settings.

Buying a cheapo PC won't allow you to experience most games as they should be, and that's not even at absolute max settings.

Not buying $1200 SLI video card setups is "cheapo" now?

Also, you never answered my question.

I didn't answer your question because it's a waste of my time. If you can't figure out how to price a great, solid PC for a reasonable price then you have no business being in this discussion.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

"If you can't play at 1024*768 with moderate AA settings and moderate visual options, I would say - that's gimped."

It's funny that that's your standard for "non-gimpery," considering you could pull that off with a 7600GT, a 180 dollar card, a 3200+ a 180 dollar processor, and 200 dollars worth of RAM. Much less than your "decent" 300 dollar video card, etc.

That's usually the point when I'm in the market for a new video card and maybe new CPU and mobo and possibly memory though.

I like it to be able to be a lot better than that.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

Dr. Cogent is so cheap that he trades in his 360 games for store credit. I have a hard time believeing he drops a 'G' to play the latest in PC gaming.

No point in debating with him.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"That's usually the point when I'm in the market for a new video card and maybe new CPU and mobo and possibly memory though.

I like it to be able to be a lot better than that."

So why pose that question at all? I answered your question, you didn't like that the answer makes your estimates seem unreasonable so you say "Yeah well that's not good enough for me," even though it meets the standards you set? *boggle*

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Dr. Cogent is so cheap that he trades in his 360 games for store credit. I have a hard time believeing he drops a 'G' to play the latest in PC gaming.

No point in debating with him.

I've since stopped dropping that sort of money on PCs. I haven't upgraded since I got my 6800 GT. Now most of whats out completely obliterates my machine and have since given up on PC gaming for now.

And I dropped 3Gs many years ago on my first PC. A Pentium Pro system with a 17 inch monitor.

I've spent plenty of money on PC gaming. Believe.

So why pose that question at all? I answered your question, you didn't like that the answer makes your estimates seem unreasonable so you say "Yeah well that's not good enough for me," even though it meets the standards you set? *boggle*

That's basically where my machine is right now. It can only play games at my "bare minimum" level and will certainly not be able to handle whats coming down the pike. It's probably time for an upgrade for me, but I won't be doing that this time.

I don't buy parts to get me to my "bare minimum" state, since all I have to do is buy a new one that much sooner.

 

[Chairman Yang]

Comeback is a relative term. It's been beaten down so much recently, a surge in sales would have to be expected at some point.

PC game sales are higher than they've ever been, so I'm not sure where you're getting this.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"I've since stopped dropping that sort of money on PCs. I haven't upgraded since I got my 6800 GT. Now most of whats out completely obliterates my machine and have since given up on PC gaming for now."

What's out now that completely obliterates a 6800GT? I'd really like to know. All I can think of is Oblivion (which runs surprisingly well even on a 9800 Pro).

 

[Chairman Yang]

I've since stopped dropping that sort of money on PCs. I haven't upgraded since I got my 6800 GT. Now most of whats out completely obliterates my machine and have since given up on PC gaming for now.

And I dropped 3Gs many years ago on my first PC. A Pentium Pro system with a 17 inch monitor.

I've spent plenty of money on PC gaming. Believe.

I've run virtually everything (including Oblivion) on settings that look nearly or equally good as a 360, using a 6600 GT. Either the rest of your system completely sucks, or you're lying.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

Now most of whats out completely obliterates my machine and have since given up on PC gaming for now.

Like what? Not on my rig. Maybe your CPU is a bottleneck.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

What's out now that completely obliterates a 6800GT? I'd really like to know. All I can think of is Oblivion (which runs surprisingly well even on a 9800 Pro).

You guys have different levels of acceptability. I can "stand" running at what I consider above gimp levels, but I don't like it and its usually when I think about upgrading.

If I step up the options in Battlefield 2 even a little, the machine dogs huge.

FEAR demo I had to run at gimped settings as well.

I have no problem with you guys having a different opinion on whats acceptable or not. You guys obviously have a problem with it though.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"If I step up the options in Battlefield 2 even a little, the machine dogs huge."

I find that odd, considering my machine runs Battlefield 2 on the preset "high" setting and that's with a 6600GT and the framerate hovers around 40 and never dips below 30. I don't mind that you have a different opinion of "acceptability," but your examples don't match reality.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

You guys have different levels of acceptability. I can "stand" running at what I consider above gimp levels, but I don't like it and its usually when I think about upgrading.

If I step up the options in Battlefield 2 even a little, the machine dogs huge.

FEAR demo I had to run at gimped settings as well.

I have no problem with you guys having a different opinion on whats acceptable or not. You guys obviously have a problem with it though.

Your machine is not configured properly. Performance is silky smooth on all of those titles for me. Also, why would you use a demo as an example? My standards = display device's native resolution + 60fps ~80-90% of the time.

 

[Odrion]

Which prices are you talking about?

sp0rks's

 

[Dr_Cogent]

"If I step up the options in Battlefield 2 even a little, the machine dogs huge."

I find that odd, considering my machine runs Battlefield 2 on the preset "high" setting and that's with a 6600GT and the framerate hovers around 40 and never dips below 30. I don't mind that you have a different opinion of "acceptability," but your examples don't match reality.

I know if I step up the lighting in BF2, the game tanks in performance. It's truly noticeable. Also, I've noticed even with 1.5 GB of RAM that stepping up certain settings causes the game to hitch which drives me insane (probably because it's having to hit the HD for more data).

I'm not sure what you mean by my examples don't match reality. Like I said before, I don't buy cards to get me to "just above what I consider gimp levels". I try to usually buy a step below the maxed out card.

Your machine is not configured properly. Performance is silky smooth on all of those titles for me. Also, why would you use a demo as an example? My standards = display device's native resolution + 60fps ~80-90% of the time.

My machine is configured just fine. I'm also completely anal about things, so what I notice might slip by most. I have no "native resolution" on my monitor either - I have a Sony 19" CRT.

All you know is my video card too, so how would you know what my machine is capable of?

 

[poppin fresh]

Spore

 

[Teknopathetic]

"I'm not sure what you mean by my examples don't match reality. Like I said before, I don't buy cards to get me to "just above what I consider gimp levels". I try to usually buy a step below the maxed out card."

What I mean is: Battlefield 2 shouldn't/doesn't run like crap on a 6600GT on the high setting, why would it on a 6800GT?

"I know if I step up the lighting in BF2, the game tanks in performance. It's truly noticeable. Also, I've noticed even with 1.5 GB of RAM that stepping up certain settings causes the game to hitch which drives me insane (probably because it's having to hit the HD for more data)."

On the high setting there are only 2 things left at medium, Lighting and Textures, and neither of those are really discernable from medium to high. Having those at medium isn't "gimped."


"All you know is my video card too, so how would you know what my machine is capable of?"

That's true, it sounds like you got cheap somewhere.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

"All you know is my video card too, so how would you know what my machine is capable of?"

That's true, it sounds like you got cheap somewhere.

:rollseyes

My CPU aint that great. It's a AMD 3200+. It's probably the bottleneck of my machine of which I am not upgrading. I didn't upgrade it and instead just got the 6800GT to get me by. As time has gone on, I've grown tired of the upgrade cycle necessary for the PC to stay in decent shape.

And hell yeah I want to run Battlefield 2 at the higher lighting settings, but I'm not about to pay the money to do that.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"And hell yeah I want to run Battlefield 2 at the higher lighting settings, but I'm not about to pay the money to do that."

Good, because you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

So now knowing the most of your specs (AMD 3200+, 6800GT, 1.5gb), I'm really confused as to why Battlefield 2 isn't running up to your standards. Or is the default "High" not good enough for you?

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Good, because you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

So now knowing the most of your specs (AMD 3200+, 6800GT, 1.5gb), I'm really confused as to why Battlefield 2 isn't running up to your standards. Or is the default "High" not good enough for you?

Hmmmmm, I can't remember all the settings I have for BF2. I would have to go back and check.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Well, it's all about preference - what I would consider a good gaming PC would indeed cost me about $1000 bucks.

On the subject of upgrading, that only gets you so far. Eventually if you want a new CPU with a different FSB you need a new mobo and new memory to go with it and you might as well get a new video card to match that new CPU. You save on what, hard drives, PSU perhaps (if you don't need to bump it up) and optical drives. What else? Floppy drive?

The savings aint that fargin great.

lol it depends on what your upgrading AMD's dont even have FSB's anymore so there goes that argument. I mean you will get alot of years out of your MB if you get one with a good socket. Look at Socket 939 its about 2 years old and you would have tons of upgrade options if you bought in early, even dual core.

And theres no such thing as matching a video card with a cpu, video cards are far faster and a system will only get so much info too it. Hence why there is always a bang for your buck cpu, like the 3500 and 3700, they didnt always perform the best across all apps but in gaming kept the vid card well fed. A person looking to improve their gaming performance obviously will start with the video card who would say "well better get a cpu first?". No one , for one reason pci express is very young, so if you have a cpu that works in a pvi express board odds are your CPU is younger than the past gen K7/P4 Northwood, so you're fine there.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

lol it depends on what your upgrading AMD's dont even have FSB's anymore so there goes that argument.

Uh, what? Are you suggesting that somehow you won't ever have to buy new memory for a new CPU/mobo combination? You're kidding right? Somehow memory technology is going to be at a stand still?

And EviLore, I ain't buying it. If you took the time, and built your current machine you have right now, it would be pricey I am sure. I think you are just dodging at this point.

And lets be real, a newb to gaming is going to need more than a PC. They need a monitor and a sound system as well.

 

[hiryu]

In my opinion the PC is really rocking at E3. Hellgate:London, Quake Wars, and the Burning Crusade are 3 of the best games at E3. I went back to Hellgate 3 times yesterday and Activision has 16 computers set up and you get to play a whole match. The way they encourage you to play support classes is really cool.

 

[EviLore]

And EviLore, I ain't buying it. If you took the time, and built your current machine you have right now, it would be pricey I am sure. I think you are just dodging at this point.

:lol

I don't answer to you. Fuck off.

 

[mr jones]

I have to agree with Cogent, here. I do all of my computer stuff on a laptop. If I want to do any type of PC gaming, I would have to purchase an entirely new rig. Between the mainboard, processor, memory, hard and optical drives, videocard, audiocard, controller and monitor, I'm easily spending 1000 bucks. If you can show me a complete setup with a current videocard and isn't cutting corners on hardware, for less than a grand, I'm there. Seriously.

 

[X26]

Future oc PC gaming = Vista only
Vista = malicious DRM
PC gaming = no thanks

 

[ToxicAdam]

PC game sales are higher than they've ever been, so I'm not sure where you're getting this.

http://pc.ign.com/articles/681/681677p1.html


I can't access this link from work. But it appears this will have the answer for you.


Unit sales fell 19 percent to 38 million units from 47 million a year earlier.


-----


So far we have Cogent shitting all over a PC thread ... we are just missing SnakeX and we will be all set.

 

[Teknopathetic]

ToxicAdam: There's still no clarification as to whether that includes sales from Digital distribution.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

Timing when upgrading your PC can play a huge role on how much it costs too. If you have an outdated Mobo and want to update to the latest and greatest, you'll end up buying a new Mobo, Processor, in some cases memory, and of course video card. My current mobo doesn't support PCI-Express for instance. Also, when I upgrade, I tend to update my Hard Drive as well. Not always, but often times I find the need to expand my storage capablities so I do it at the same time as the other upgrades. Upgrading fans and power supplies can be necessary as well, depending on what you're currently using, and what you are adding.
When you do major upgrades, these kinds of things crop up, and tend to lead to more expenses that you suspect.

Mr. Jones: Laptops fall into a completely different category because of their lack of an upgrade path most of the time. There is very little you can do to upgrade a laptop, thus you're basically paying for the whole thing every time you upgrade.

 

[MrPing1000]

meh software sales have been dropping all around

 

[ToxicAdam]

ToxicAdam: There's still no clarification as to whether that includes sales from Digital distribution.

How big of an effect do you think dig. distribution has on sales? Enough to cover the 9 million units that were lost?


To be fair, combine DD and Walmart sales, and it just might. As one article stated, the money is still there, it's just being distributed in different ways (subscription fees and online purchases).

 

[Tain]

Was it at 1920x1440 with everything maxed? Hell no, because that's not a sane way to approach PC gaming.

repeat for effect:

that's not a sane way to approach PC gaming.

that's not a sane way to approach PC gaming.

that's not a sane way to approach PC gaming.

When I look at a console, I think about all the new I can play on it. New as in upcoming games and what is already available for it that I have yet to play. Having backwards compatibility here and there for consoles is great, especially, say, when I never owned a PSX and purchased a PS2. As far as I'm concerned, PC gaming isn't Half-Life 2 and FarCry and the upcoming Crysis and all of that. It's a complete set of generations and generations of games, ranging from Wasteland to Sam & Max to Theif to Oblivion.

It's also a completely open platform, for all the good and bad that does. Thanks to this, I can fight and become Pyramid Head in Oblivion. I can model environments in 3ds Max and have DM matches in them in UT2004. My laptop carries my complete collection of PS1 games, which I can play from it on a television, with a Dual Shock. I can dick around and make a scrolling shooter in a million different ways. Of course, how games run depends on the hardware I have and how I tell them to make use of it, but that's just logical.

 

[Phoenix]

The content shown on the PC at E3 this year is excellent and relatively diverse. Between my PC and Wii, I think I'm set till next E3.

 

[Chairman Yang]

http://pc.ign.com/articles/681/681677p1.html


I can't access this link from work. But it appears this will have the answer for you.


Unit sales fell 19 percent to 38 million units from 47 million a year earlier.

Besides the digital distribution/Walmart sales already mentioned by other posters, don't forget to factor in MMORPG revenues, which are huge. WoW alone has how many subscribers in NA now, paying $15 each month?

 

[Pimpbaa]

A decent video card is going to run you at least 300 bucks

Nope, a geforce 7600GT is under 200.

 

[White Man]

Teknopathetic,

A decent video card is going to run you at least 300 bucks. Top of the line $500-$600. Throw in a case, CPU, mobo, memory, hard drive(s), optical drive(s), a decent PSU (not a peice of shit), floppy drive (maybe) and you are well on your way to 1000 bucks easy.

Yeah, you can chince out here and there - but then it aint that great of a PC anymore.

I don't buy shit parts for my PCs.

I just built an absolutely top of the line PC for 1100 bucks. I could've had a passable gaming PC for half that price. Do you realize how cheap it is to build your own shit?

 

[Pimpbaa]

I just built an absolutely top of the line PC for 1100 bucks. I could've had a passable gaming PC for half that price. Do you realize how cheap it is to build your own shit?

I just built a kickass system for 1400 canadian. It plays everything fine at 1280x1024. The price of computers is greatly exaggerated by some.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Uh, what? Are you suggesting that somehow you won't ever have to buy new memory for a new CPU/mobo combination? You're kidding right? Somehow memory technology is going to be at a stand still?

And EviLore, I ain't buying it. If you took the time, and built your current machine you have right now, it would be pricey I am sure. I think you are just dodging at this point.

And lets be real, a newb to gaming is going to need more than a PC. They need a monitor and a sound system as well.

No i was saying that for amd processors they no longer have a frontside bus...so until theres a new HT ...there goes that argument that you want a new cpu because of the fsb. Of course time / tech isnt going to stand still, in a few weeks there will be the AM2 on a new DDR2 memory controller and socket. Maybe you meant you eventually will want a new CPU on a new cpu socket. That would require a new MB atleast, doesnt always require new memory though since DDR clocks to whatever speed is available.

I understand a new socket means a new motherboard EVENTUALLY but thats EVENTUALLY if i bought a socket 939 when it came out i've had 3 years of stability and ill have dual core upgrades for atleast another year at this point. ANd when i do have to get a new MB ..well they avg 80-115 dollars ...thats not a bad price for EVENTUALLY having to upgrade a part over a few years. You could go from an AMD 64 3000 all the way to a A64 FX 60 on a 939 socket thats alot of upgrade options and more are on the way not to mention you can go from one cpu to two.

If you get a good MB they last quite a while , and before you scrap your whole system and upgrade most people will just upgrade their cpu/video card over the years they have a system. People gaming with pc's they built arent morons they arent going to switch sockets unless the performance is warranted or in other words... EVENTUALLY yeah the performance they want for their money will be there. Most wait till their CPU upgrade can atleast provide them 15 - 20% increase in performance.

 

[Hooker]

I just built a kickass system for 1400 canadian. It plays everything fine at 1280x1024. The price of computers is greatly exaggerated by some.

Exactly, people seem to be confusing high-end and extreme-end PC parts.



Extreme parts is PC's is the equivalant of buying a Qualia TV along with your XB360/PS3. People with too much money are the only ones to do so. (And with that, I mean FX-60 / 955EE, 1900XTX CF / 7900 GTX SLI etc.)