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Dota 2 Beta Thread 2: Real Talk Discouraged [Magnus, Teams, 6.75b, 150+ Shop Items]

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Treant Protector

- Overgrowth no longer does damage

I haven't expected them to make him less viable than he was in his current state. Now frog needs to remove damage from Leech Seed to make Treant utterly useless as a damage dealer.

He was never a damage dealer with spells, he was a healer, and now he is an amazing healer; heal a tower from anywhere on the map, and his ult is now one of the longest aoe disables in the game.

Man there are some nice changes in here to my favorites. Barathrum got love, but also a change to his gameplay with the 1 nerf. Everything else makes up for it though.

Seems like a nerf at first, but then you realize charge of darkness + max bash means a 300 damage nuke for everybody that he passes through, and he can get to max move speed much easier now.

doesnt take away the primary weakness of the hero for the last 6 months. Dude literally has 0 armor, 0 mitigation, nada. He's going to get destroyed in nearly every lane still, buying tranqs + basi only gives you something like 13% mitigation rofl. I still think he's going to be outclassed by most carries, especially DK.
Or, you know, get wildkin aura at 30 seconds into the game.
 
So what are the chances that all those 6.75 changes get patched into Dota 2 next week?

Is that the 'giant update' they're talking about?
 
puck buff? fuck yea

a little annoyed by some of the buffs though sniper and drow are going to be in every game

i am happy lycan got slapped in the face
 
So what are the chances that all those 6.75 changes get patched into Dota 2 next week?

Is that the 'giant update' they're talking about?

We got 6.74 in Dota2 in the update following that release. Since they hinted at having something big next week I think it's very clear we will be getting 6.75 in Dota2 on Thursday.
 
The increase in bounty for player kills is pretty huge IMO. It's a big reason why HON games move at a faster pace. More money circulates, people are more aggressive, more fights happen and games end sooner.
 
The Necrolyte Sadist rework looks pretty cool:
Sadist:
=======
Necrolyte gains increased HP and Mana regeneration for each unit he kills.

Mana Regeneration: 2/4/6/10 per second
HP Regeneration: 1/2/3/4 per second
Duration: 6

Gives 10x the bonus for hero kills.

Note: Stacks with itself. Each stack operates independently.
60 mana and 24 HP back for each last hit on level 4, not bad. Also, 240 HP and 600 mana for every hero kill.

edit: Also, holy shit, what?
Techies
- Armor increased by 6
 
The increase in bounty for player kills is pretty huge IMO. It's a big reason why HON games move at a faster pace. More money circulates, people are more aggressive, more fights happen and games end sooner.

Observer wards are now 150 instead of 200, so this could lead to more wards being dropped by supports, something I fully endorse.
 
With the higher AOE gold and cheaper wards, supports should have more money in general, which is very nice.

Also, thoughts on the Aegis change? I think it will make Ursa/Lycan less pub-stompy.

Aegis reclaim time decreased from 10 to 6 minutes. Roshan still respawns every 10 minutes, this change does not affect him. It only means that Aegis will last 6 minutes in your inventory instead of 10.
 
With the higher AOE gold and cheaper wards, supports should have more money in general, which is very nice.

Also, thoughts on the Aegis change? I think it will make Ursa/Lycan less pub-stompy.

I don't think it changes pub play much at all, Ursa/Lycan in pub generally just get the aegis and don't use it or get it and immediately dive with it. I think the far more interesting effect is on pro games, because there's no longer that ability to wait for the next roshan if you don't get the opening you want. If you wait too long the other team will know they have a chance to get you before you can take roshan again, and fights just before roshan respawns will be on equal footing.
 
Chart of the difference in gold for kills:
tU0pX.png
 
Man my boy Naix is going to be so much fun with this 1s armlet toggle and 6s rage buff. Buffed enough to make him more viable, but not enough that he's picked in every game I hope. Just the way I like it.
 
Shadow Amulet seems like it has potential, but that fade time makes it seem really lackluster. 2.75 seconds before invisible, can't move?
 
  • Enraged Wildkin's Tornado vision decreased from 1200/800 to 300
The Tornado is still great, but now you actually have to rely on other units to spot for you. Should make its use less braindead in practice.


  • Aegis reclaim time decreased from 10 to 6 minutes
Creates a four minute window in which teams are once again on a level playing field (bar cheese, which might be increasingly saved for this window if a successful teamfight isn't seen as being imminent).


  • Team AoE bounty for kills with 2 heroes around changed from 9*Level+95 to 12*Level + 125
  • Team AoE bounty for kills with 3 heroes around changed from 8*Level+20 to 10*Level+40
  • Killer bounty level multiplier increased from 200+5*Level to 200+9*Level
I only have napkin math to go off of here, but all indications seem to say that this is an appreciable increase in kill bounties across the board, and to ganking in general. Bounty Hunter isn't going anywhere anytime soon.


  • Zet, the Arc Warden
BTNFlux.jpg
BTNMagneticField.jpg
BTNSparkWraith.jpg
BTNTempestDouble.jpg


Damn, this guy, this guy is good at stuff. Where to start. He doesn't have a hard disable, he has no armor, he has horrific starting agility (Weaver is 1 worse), but what he lacks in those departments he makes up for by being maddeningly effective in other departments. He essentially has a ground Venomous Gale in Flux if an enemy hero's partner leaves the lane for a moment, which can ramp up and essentially root said hero if used in conjunction with his double's Flux. Given coordination, he can also slow two separate enemies as they flee (provided they're not on top of each other).

Magnetic Field is a huge carry buff at a crucial window in a crucial teamfight, made to be used with a glass cannon who squares off against a large physical damage dealer. Also will double the team's Fortification window, and operate thereafter as Fortification every 50 seconds as needed (and will also make towers shred through creepwaves like they're paper).

Spark Wraith is interesting, but I can't make heads or tails of its utility because I'm unclear as to whether the wraith gives vision or not (I'll assume not, seeing as it wasn't mentioned). Still, these little horrors provide a good source of damage, they're cheap, they come off cooldown rapidly, and they can be deployed from an effective distance. I presume they're attracted to units of all types given the description, and that they're perfectly visible, so placement of these will probably be to cut off critical chokepoints. A cool 100 mana and eight seconds to the task will provide 300/400/500/600 magic damage on whatever spot you want to deny very briefly. Rune timings, the situational fleeing enemy, your team taking Roshan and you denying a ramp or two, their taking Roshan and you mining the entrance to the Rosh pit (then forcing their team out), it's a great skill that rewards timing and prediction of where the enemy team will be and when.

Tempest Double is cherry material. Everything that was good about the above skills, basically imagine having them done twice in the same frame of time. And if that wasn't good enough, he gets full use of his inventory (bar the listed exceptions), which makes active ability items very powerful in his hands. Two Force Staffs. Two Eul's Scepters. Two Scythes of Vyse. Two Orchids Malevolence. Two Dagons (this in particular could hurt quite a bit, and with the new cooldowns, a level 5 Dagon will be able to fire a second salvo from each of them before the Double times out). Shudder to think how Hand of Midas works with him.


  • Auroth, the Winter Wyvern
BTNArcticSiege.jpg
BTNSplinterBlast.jpg
BTNColdEmbrace.jpg
BTNWintersCurse.jpg


So this is what became of the Frost Wyrm rumor. Arctic Burn is equally good for chasing, escaping, and fighting. Coupled with unimpeded vision over trees and terrain, the slow and health burn can (and ought) be applied to every single target within reach. Has aspects of the rumored ultimate in this respect (global slow), but in this case you have to work for it to make the enemy team feel the effects.

Splinter Blast tips the escape paradigm on its ear for enemies. An enemy hero that attempts to block WW or an ally of his to preserve a low ally may in fact end up dooming him instead. If the nuke doesn't finish off the ailing hero, the slow may very well spell his end. Coupled with Arctic Burn's slow and health degeneration, all the chase might need on top of this would be a few extra long-range right clicks.

Cold Embrace is essentially four seconds of complete evasion and Heart of Tarrasque time. Fine balance to strike, hit it too early and his pursuers will have another stun and better position to hammer him from. Letting him eat both lane stuns and run as close to the tower as he can, ideally freezing him in time for the last 1 or 2 autoattacks, that seems as though it would be the optimal window.

Winter's Curse seems an interesting spin on Axe's Berserker's Call, though it naturally leaves oneself far less open to reprisal and punishment given the great range at which Wyvern can operate. Skill synergy is excellent, Curse seems the perfect leadup for Wyvern to drop his full combo on an enemy team caught in the wrong position. A good curse will ensure spectacular Splinter Blast coverage, and will only simplify painting the team with Arctic Burn. Dark Seer would be WW's bestie without a doubt, and the two of them could very plausibly win a teamfight singlehandedly.

Would like to continue, but it's well past bedtime and I need to sleep.
 
Love the Doom/Drow buffs! Also the Sniper/Alch/Spirit Breaker ones look fun.

Hate some of the nerfs, DS another row of nerfs, nothing too major I suppose, but the combo with naga was fun to see.

Mostly good stuff though, supports getting more money, wards costing less.. amazing. No new rosh locations though :o

Also hate this one:

Panda Brewmaster
- Primal Split units are now affected by Black Hole
 
Doom Bringer
- Devour creep level restriction removed
- Devour cooldown from 60/55/50/45 to 70/60/50/40
- Devour gold from 40/60/80/100 to 25/50/75/100
- Devour manacost from 60 to 60/50/40/30
- Level Death bonus damage now deals 20% of Max HP instead of a fixed amount
- Level Death damage increased from 100/150/200/250 to 125/175/225/275
- Scorched Earth damage/heal increased from 12/16/20/24 to 12/18/24/30
DOOM IS NOW A JUNGLE HERO. Aww shit.
 
Love it his mana cost went down a bit. He doesn't use much I suppose but he what he does need he spams, so mana went away really fast. Can't wait to play new Doom, my first hero and one of my favs.
 
Ancient Apparition
- Chilling Touch now deals its bonus damage and uses a charge when attacking creeps
- Chilling Touch AoE increased from 450 to 525
- Chilling Touch damage increased from 40/50/60/70 to 50/60/70/80
- Chilling Touch duration reduced from 40 to 30
- Ice Blast is no longer dispelled by the Fountain

OH GOD! You're fucked even if you make it back in with low health!
 
  • Zet, the Arc Warden
BTNTempestDouble.jpg


Tempest Double is cherry material. Everything that was good about the above skills, basically imagine having them done twice in the same frame of time. And if that wasn't good enough, he gets full use of his inventory (bar the listed exceptions), which makes active ability items very powerful in his hands. Two Force Staffs. Two Eul's Scepters. Two Scythes of Vyse. Two Orchids Malevolence. Two Dagons (this in particular could hurt quite a bit, and with the new cooldowns, a level 5 Dagon will be able to fire a second salvo from each of them before the Double times out). Shudder to think how Hand of Midas works with him.

I want to play Rubick against this guy.
 
Sad about the lycan nerfs. But since they buffed kotl, tiny, lina, drow and huskar overall the heroes i play got a lot stronger.


What does the leshrac change mean?
 
There's a LOT of stuff in this patch.

I like the Ethereal Blade change a lot. Makes the item much more interesting, and something to consider on a much wider swath of heroes now than pretty much only Morphling.

I like the Shadow Fiend change to Requiem - pretty nice buff. Raze is a great skill shot especially landing the full combo, so I'd like to see him get some more play.

The one new hero is like the Ice/Frost version of Batrider, lol. Speaking of which, Batrider got some nice buffs.

Something no one here mentioned is the CM ban phase change. Only 2 bans to start out, rather than 3. I think that's a more significant change on the pro scene than a lot of the other things since it will allow more heroes through. Should shake up the meta-game a bit, as you'll have to be prepared to deal with more things. The Aegis change as well, already mentioned, is pretty significant and will have an effect on strategy. To make use of the Aegis, you'll have to force a push or confrontation fairly quick to make use of it, as opposed to playing more passively and using it to just secure the next Roshan kill.

Oh, and:

- Armlet toggle cooldown reduced from 5 to 1 second

Icefrog wants more Armlet in the weekly top 10.

Too much other stuff to mention, but those were just a few things that stood out to me.
 
Sad about the lycan nerfs. But since they buffed kotl, tiny, lina, drow and huskar overall the heroes i play got a lot stronger.


What does the leshrac change mean?
That Diabolic Edict will now need to go through Leshrac's casting animation time (0.7) before going in effect, I think, like Split Earth and Lightning Storm do.
 
That Diabolic Edict will now need to go through Leshrac's casting animation time (0.7) before going in effect, I think, like Split Earth and Lightning Storm do.

Oh ok. I was confused because i thought it meant each instance of damage would be 0.7 apart, which would have been a massive nerf.
 
God, checking the creeps abilities in the wiki is making me very happy about Doom's buff. Super fast wildkin is a big welcome, and the tornado should do quite a lot of damage early.
 
100,154 100,154 Dota 2

Peak and current, so still going up, it's still really early too. Highest played game on steam. If it passes the 130k ish daily I don't think new releases will even bump it anymore. Let alone when the full game is released for everybody.
 
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