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Dota 2 Beta Thread 2: Real Talk Discouraged [Magnus, Teams, 6.75b, 150+ Shop Items]
- Thread starter Artanisix
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Sure, but it's mostly your illusions that make more illusions, not PL himself, and the illusions only benefit from +agi for attack speed. PL just gets the ball rolling with a Spirit Lance or Dopplewalk in a teamfight to start his shit up. Tranqs gives you a pair of boots that allow for great survivability which leads to better farm which leads to illusions that are actually a threat.
CornBurrito
Member
Explain it to a poor newbie pubber. How is PL worthless? Once he gets his illusion army going there seems to be little I (or my team) can do about it.
Schweinehund
Member
Don't know if this is everyone's problem with PL but here is mine;
He has a really weak early game, this is true for most carries though.
He doesn't have much starting health or base damage or BAT *Was wrong about base damage, not as high as voids but still high*. Doppelwalk is his saving grace but its not reactive like backtrack or spellshield is. It costs a lot of mana early on.
I don't feel that PL is godly like FV or AM is once he has his core assembled, unless you have a full army of illusions ready to go at the start of the team fight.
He needs illusions to reach his full power, which rely on rng. I feel like it takes forever to get an army going unless you have r4jux and r2ult. My usual build is maxing spear and doppelwalk first but I don't think this is viable in all situations. I think I should build around how well my farm is going.
It's hard to understand if you're playing heroes right or not when your resources are 4 year old guides. I don't think PL is weak, just that there are better choices for most situations. (For the record, the only heroes I truly think suck are bloodseeker and alchemist.)
I totally agree with this.
When I play support, I usually don't get boots until the second pack of Wards is purchased to keep vision up from 6:00-12:00 window.
That pattern incentivizes me to try and help with an earlier gank since an assist (or a kill) is a half pack (or a full pack) of Wards.
Getting your support a first blood or involved in it should get your team vision for 12 minutes. That seems like a pretty good trade.
Wards win games
PL ES STRONK BECAUZ PL MAKE ILLUS AND ILLUS MAKE ILLUS TO MAKE STRONK ARMY. HE IS GED LIKE SOVIET ARMY B/C MENY MEN COME FITE 4 MTHRLAND. IS MENY GOOD YES.
PL is a great hero to utilize for his staying power and his ability to cause havoc with his illusions. When Pl gets his radiance, it's pretty much a guarantee that he'll have that burn damage up on their heroes, due to the nature of the hero and how easy it is to make illusions with him. When arguing about tranquil vs treads, the most important thing you have to weigh is cost. Treads cost 1450 while Tranquils are 1025, and you get alot more utility out of tranquils early game anyways, as well as saving you some gold for radiance.
PL is a great hero to utilize for his staying power and his ability to cause havoc with his illusions. When Pl gets his radiance, it's pretty much a guarantee that he'll have that burn damage up on their heroes, due to the nature of the hero and how easy it is to make illusions with him. When arguing about tranquil vs treads, the most important thing you have to weigh is cost. Treads cost 1450 while Tranquils are 1025, and you get alot more utility out of tranquils early game anyways, as well as saving you some gold for radiance.
CornBurrito
Member
Is Anti-Mage pretty much the best carry?
It seems very difficult to gank him early on thanks to his blink, and once he gets enough farm you might as well bend over and lube up.
It seems very difficult to gank him early on thanks to his blink, and once he gets enough farm you might as well bend over and lube up.
One of the best carries yeah.
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
Seems to be. I can't use the fucker though.
Gully State
Member
oops
Caught you!
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
His ult is way better when you have ranged teammates. Of course, it depends of the person using the ult correctly.
Gully State
Member
/shakes fist at GAF..
Fixed.
Gully State
Member
Any tips on how to keep the PL images going? It seems like they don't last very long at all...but yet I've seen people late game roll up into a lane with 4-5 of them into a team fight...
CornBurrito
Member
I decided to watch a pro-match and I think it confused me. Wards being placed in positions for reasons I cannot grasp.
And an unbelievable comeback from seemingly out of the blue.
And an unbelievable comeback from seemingly out of the blue.
Build up illusions on creeps, go in as an army.\
Heavily RNG dependent though.
Read up on this if you're interested in learning more about the ward game: http://www.playdota.com/guides/seeing-is-beliving-or-rape
It's more intricate than you think.
PillowKnight
Member
Shit was amazing, loved that blackhole at the end to keep SF from dropping.
Also, feel so bad for INFS. Must feel like shit to lose a game where you're so far ahead, and the manner in which they lost is really demoralizing. For those who werent there; INFS vs AL, INFS is super far ahead, and have two raxes to go till mega creeps. Eventually AL has a bunch of good fights and they decide to go all in, SF buys a rapier... and he's at about 10% hp when he last hits the throne for a win.
CornBurrito
Member
I've read the guide, but...
I know the DOTA1 and DOTA2 maps are pretty much 1:1 but I cannot for the life of me figure out where some of those locations in the guide actually are.
That is actually the match I was just talking about.
Also I noticed everyone in the match was using: DF123 for their item slots. Maybe I should start using that.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
I've played for a good 15 hours or so against bots and with friends but man.. I can't seem to escape other heroes stuns. Once I get stunned it's all over.Are stuns a big part of this game? How are they in other games like HoN and LoL?
Yes, stuns are a huge part of this game. Most fights in this game start with a stun and end with DEATH.
You'll just need to learn to be more careful and know when to back off. If you're ever low on health you definitely don't want to get too close to an enemy hero with a stun.
And try not to spend too much time with bots - if you have a feel for the mechanics and can play a couple of heroes, start playing with humans. You're going to learn much faster against people.
Feel free to ask if something confuses you.
throwawayname
Member
Comewithme to Darer maybe?
CornBurrito
Member
Is this guide acceptable? It actually uses DOTA2 graphics.
http://www.team-dignitas.net/articles/blogs/DotA/1092/Dota-2-Ultimate-Guide-to-Warding/
Yes, very.
Gully State
Member
I've played for a good 15 hours or so against bots and with friends but man.. I can't seem to escape other heroes stuns. Once I get stunned it's all over.
With MOBA's in general, with how the mechanics work and the level at which the camera is pulled in, you can technically be out of position despite your opponents being off screen (out of view). That's one of the first things you should consider.
RukusProvider
Banned
AM needs to be lane controlled or pushed against hard. Both will nullify him.
A late game AM can be controlled with chained disables but if your team doesn't have enough if that, you are screwed.
Spectre is no where the powerhouse she used to be. Thus not picked or banned in pro games anymore.
Ursa in pub is usually a sure win carry. Vlads, boots and blink dagger.
Dreams-Visions
Member
the correct answer.
I've 1v5'd fights with Spectre late. I didn't expect her to be so powerful, but goddamn. That damage return + damage dealing is ridiculous.
I would agree with this. You have to damn near kill yourself to take out a farmed Spectre in the lategame, and that's before she throws Spectral Daggers and the right clicks.
Riverfield
Neo Member
I've played for a good 15 hours or so against bots and with friends but man.. I can't seem to escape other heroes stuns. Once I get stunned it's all over.
Well HoN is mostly the same heroes as dota, so yeah. LoL has stricter lane compositions, slower ability damage scaling with levels, differences in lane design, summoner spells, nothing anywhere as huge as tidehunter ult, and a fairly cheap self purge item. These all contribute to making stuns less potent than they are in many stages of DotA, but it's very important that your team has at least some form of it in both.
If this experience is mostly from playing bot games, it's kinda skewed. Many of the heroes bots choose have a strong early game stun, and bots are actually much better than most new players at following up on stuns. That Sven and Vengeful Spirit lane with Tiny ganking from mid is really brutal for people who just want to start against bots.
Later in the game, largely because of the strength of stuns and cc, many heroes should purchase a Black King Bar that grants immunity against magic damage and most cc.
http://www.joindota.com/en/livestreams/598-ggnet-purge
Burning-styled Antimage, Hand of Midas Mirana, Beastmaster stacking ridiculous amounts of Ancient Creeps.
Burning-styled Antimage, Hand of Midas Mirana, Beastmaster stacking ridiculous amounts of Ancient Creeps.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Well I got some great hep from earthstrike last night so I think I'm starting to get a handle on things.
CornBurrito
Member
Why does clicking on matches on joindota no longer bring me to the stream?
Did it ever? I usually just check out the popular streams if I see a live game.
CornBurrito
Member
I clicked on the AL vs Infused game earlier today and was taken to the stream.
Edit: Ok, so they don't. I did not realize that.
MustacheBandit_
Member
it never did. matches are sometimes cast by multiple people. you must have clicked one of the livestream links below it and thought you clicked the match link.
Also, think I found enough problems?
http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=33678&p=204074&viewfull=1#post204074
http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=33678&p=204657&viewfull=1#post204657
http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=33678&p=205129&viewfull=1#post205129
http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=33678&p=205153&viewfull=1#post205153
Just made the enemy sand king rage, due to being able to recover from a stupid bad start. Silencer and Sand King were keeping me from farm for the first 15 minutes of the game. They couldn't really kill us, but I couldn't get close enough to really get any creeps. I just stayed in XP range, got a shit ton of tangos, and waited it out. I should have just gotten PL let me switch with him, but didn't really think of that till about 15 minutes in. Baha playing Necrolyte ended up reminding me of how good Soul Ring is on General on SK, and I grabbed on of those at 20 minutes (Sand King was taunting me for being the Skeleton King with a 16 minute sage's mask). I went from having a Magic Wand, Normal Boots, and a TP Scroll and a Sages mask, and a QB at 16 minutes, to after a great team battle brought on by the enemy being cocky and SS having an Invis, to having Soul Ring, Treads, the Magic Wand, SB, Dust, and a set of Wards so I could farm safely for a bit. Got an Armlet up in the next 10 minutes by just jungling and engaging anyone who came close enough (Nature's Prophet kept teleporting in at odd spots to ward and deward, thanks to my wards we saw him come in and got to where he was before he could get out).
Then SK started getting mad how his team was loosing to "The SK who got the 32 minute armlet".
Sniper grabbed a Shadow Blade, so I swapped my Dust for a Gem (Which Sandking got mad thinking we got it just for him, upon which we taunted and told him it was for Sniper, as dust was enough for him). And I simply grabbed a heart before the game was over. And then the enemy Sand King Raged quit about a minute before the creeps pushed down the Ancient.
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