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Dragon Age II: No overhead view on PC, no toolset, audience is on consoles

sflufan said:
I maintain that the game sold the most on the PC platform.

Now, if you combined the 360 and PS3 sales, THEN you could come up with the notion that the "audience has moved to consoles", but then that's hardly a fair way to count things.
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Do you have numbers to back that up? People keep saying it sold the most on the PC, but no one has posted any sources.
 
Mr Jared said:
Watching the GAF hivemind collectively turn on Bioware has been as hilarious as it is absurd. I for one welcome our new Triple-F Grade, console pleb developer and Dragon Age II will continue to be one of my most anticipated games :lol
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it's not really sudden, it started with how they treated Mass Effect 2 on PC
 
sflufan said:
I maintain that the game sold the most on the PC platform.

Now, if you combined the 360 and PS3 sales, THEN you could come up with the notion that the "audience has moved to consoles", but then that's hardly a fair way to count things.
Click to expand...
"I stared into the abyss, and criticized it's black levels"
 
_tetsuo_ said:
They already hit one market well (PC) and then they make this change. The only reason I can think of is, as people have already pointed out, to cut development time. That just seems strange though given that Bioware is a fairly large studio.
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No, I think somebody earlier in the thread had it right. Bioware is falling into the same trap as so many other companies in this generation: They go for the slim shot of a big win rather than the good odds on a solid, but unremarkable, return. And the jackpot for the console market is much, much larger than the jackpot for the PC market.

Problem is that Bioware just went all in on an 8/2 offsuit.
 
Son of Godzilla said:
Or Mass Effect 1 on PC! Or JE!
Click to expand...

Or KOTOR releasing first on the Xbox, then the PC.

If anything, the care and attention shown to the PC version of DA:O was the exception for BioWare, not the rule.
 
TOO GOOD. WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING? YOU CAN TURN THE TEXTURE SETTING DOWN IF IT'S TOO GOOD OR ARE WE NOT GOING TO GET CONFIGURABLE SETTINGS? IS THAT WHAT YOU MEANT TO SAY BIOWARE?

I'm mad.
 
Maybe this can be fixed with a focus group.

Seriously, I enjoyed the console version of DA:O but I see no reason to gimp PC players who seemed to love the hallmarks of Baldur's Gate that DA:O brought back. This series was supposed to be the spiritual successor, why throw it all away?

The "console-ification" of ME2 worked for the type of game it was, that does not mean DA needs to follow the same route or will have the same success.

Its still day 1 for me regardless.
 
Mr Jared said:
Watching the GAF hivemind collectively turn on Bioware has been as hilarious as it is absurd. I for one welcome our new Triple-F Grade, console pleb developer and Dragon Age II will continue to be one of my most anticipated games :lol
Click to expand...

While I say goodbye to our PC developer.

Patryn said:
No, I think somebody earlier in the thread had it right. Bioware is falling into the same trap as so many other companies in this generation: They go for the slim shot of a big win rather than the good odds on a solid, but unremarkable, return. And the jackpot for the console market is much, much larger than the jackpot for the PC market.

Problem is that Bioware just went all in on an 8/2 offsuit.
Click to expand...

I'm saying they can do that and still not change the PC version. They did it for the first Dragon Age.
 
Mr Jared said:
Watching the GAF hivemind collectively turn on Bioware has been as hilarious as it is absurd. I for one welcome our new Triple-F Grade, console pleb developer and Dragon Age II will continue to be one of my most anticipated games :lol
Click to expand...

It isn't as much the "GAF hivemind" as it is people who enjoyed Dragon Age on the PC and don't want to see its significant PC-specific features wholly chopped out of the sequel.

These aren't trivial things they're removing. Both the toolset and the isometric camera effectively changed how the game was played. It would be like if they had released Super Street Fighter IV without an arcade stick control option.
 
gdt5016 said:
Do you have numbers to back that up? People keep saying it sold the most on the PC, but no one has posted any sources.
Click to expand...

The only NPD data I could find was the total sales for 2009 and that's for combined 360/PS3 sales.

According to the figure, DA:O sold 1.14 million units combined for 360/PS3 in 2009.
 
Attention:

This was just posted by Mike Laidlaw on the DA forums:

Hey folks,

Victor managed to hunt me down, and I wanted to clear up a few things with regards to what I'm seeing as the two major concerns on this thread.

First off, let's talk about the toolset issue. Obviously in this community there's going to be some concern that we wouldn't release a toolset, so let me clear the air a little: The tools we're using to make Dragon Age 2 are very, very close to the tools you guys have used to make your mods for DA:O. They're not identical, as we've made a few in-house improvements, but they're almost identical. As such, there isn't a new toolset to release, per se.

While we won't be releasing a toolset update in tandem with Dragon Age 2, we ARE investigating what it would take to update the community toolset to match ours, along with providing DA2 content in the future.

As to the subject of tactical view, I can confirm that we will not be doing a tactical view on consoles, though we are looking into some expanded party control that I think will make console players quite happy.

On the PC, however, we are still working with the camera to keep the key elements of the tactical experience there. I was actually playtesting some new camera code when Victor found me, in fact, so I can give you the latest news on that front.

While we likely won't pull as far up as we did in DA:O, I have always felt that the key to tactical play was actually freeing your camera from the character you're controlling to issue precise orders, which is what we're tuning now. So, this means you can still maneuver the camera around the battlefield and issue orders from a remote location, just as you could in Origins.

As you can probably tell from my phrasing, all of this is a bit in-flux right now, so things may change between now and ship, but I wanted to update you guys on the current direction of things.

Mike..
 
Zeliard said:
It isn't as much the "GAF hivemind" as it is people who enjoyed Dragon Age on the PC and don't want to see its significant PC-specific features wholly chopped out of the sequel.

These aren't trivial things they're removing. Both the toolset and the isometric camera effectively changed how the game was played. It would be like if they had released Super Street Fighter IV without an arcade stick control option.
Click to expand...


I played DA:O in the iso view only on PC. In my time with the versions, the combat was far superior on PC.
 
dragon age origins was a five year labour of love, an attempt at a spiritual reawakening of their own concorde moment.

dragon age 2 is a quickly spun off piece of console trash designed specifically to cash in on anyone stupid enough to buy it.
 
As to the subject of tactical view, I can confirm that we will not be doing a tactical view on consoles, though we are looking into some expanded party control that I think will make console players quite happy.

On the PC, however, we are still working with the camera to keep the key elements of the tactical experience there. I was actually playtesting some new camera code when Victor found me, in fact, so I can give you the latest news on that front.

While we likely won't pull as far up as we did in DA:O, I have always felt that the key to tactical play was actually freeing your camera from the character you're controlling to issue precise orders, which is what we're tuning now. So, this means you can still maneuver the camera around the battlefield and issue orders from a remote location, just as you could in Origins.
Click to expand...
Oh, okay, they're just nerfing overhead view.
 
sflufan said:
Attention:

Not as bad as it seems
Click to expand...

Well that sounds a lot better. To be honest, in DA, I played the vast majority of the game one notch zoomed in from iso. It wasn't really ots, but not full iso either, it was quite nice. It sounds like what they are doing here.

I actually can't really imagine playing the game full iso, the camera wouldn't be very good. I just pulled back one notch in combat to full iso, then went forward one notch when out of combat.

Hope we eventually something a bit more committed about the tool set though, because "looking into updating it" isn't really enough, and the toolset is far more important to me then the view.

Edit: What I actually find far more troubling then Mike's comments are the fact that they didn't support toolset access to the source files in Awakening, which means its broken and it is staying broken for the time being. That does not set a good precedent for them going forward.
 
sflufan said:
Attention:

This was just posted by Mike Laidlaw on the DA forums:

Hey folks,

Victor managed to hunt me down, and I wanted to clear up a few things with regards to what I'm seeing as the two major concerns on this thread.

First off, let's talk about the toolset issue. Obviously in this community there's going to be some concern that we wouldn't release a toolset, so let me clear the air a little: The tools we're using to make Dragon Age 2 are very, very close to the tools you guys have used to make your mods for DA:O. They're not identical, as we've made a few in-house improvements, but they're almost identical. As such, there isn't a new toolset to release, per se.

While we won't be releasing a toolset update in tandem with Dragon Age 2, we ARE investigating what it would take to update the community toolset to match ours, along with providing DA2 content in the future.

As to the subject of tactical view, I can confirm that we will not be doing a tactical view on consoles, though we are looking into some expanded party control that I think will make console players quite happy.

On the PC, however, we are still working with the camera to keep the key elements of the tactical experience there. I was actually playtesting some new camera code when Victor found me, in fact, so I can give you the latest news on that front.

While we likely won't pull as far up as we did in DA:O, I have always felt that the key to tactical play was actually freeing your camera from the character you're controlling to issue precise orders, which is what we're tuning now. So, this means you can still maneuver the camera around the battlefield and issue orders from a remote location, just as you could in Origins.

As you can probably tell from my phrasing, all of this is a bit in-flux right now, so things may change between now and ship, but I wanted to update you guys on the current direction of things.

Mike..
Click to expand...
*douses torch in the toilet*

Seems to have been some mistranslation involved here.
 
K.Jack said:
*douses torch in the toilet*

Seems to have been some mistranslation involved here.
Click to expand...

Yes, Mike says that there definitely was mistranslation involved as his answers are never that "clipped" in reply to questions.
 
Shai-Tan said:
forums are for jumping to conclusions :)
Click to expand...

"we are working to keep elements of the tactical experience there."

well i'm sold. a statement with all the fiery intent of a three day old line of piss.
 
Love the fact that a few console fans came in here to chip in that they have no complaints and are still buying it. Why would you be disappointed, nothing was changed in your version, you've had the inferior version from day 1.
 
sflufan said:
Attention:

This was just posted by Mike Laidlaw on the DA forums:

Hey folks,

Victor managed to hunt me down, and I wanted to clear up a few things with regards to what I'm seeing as the two major concerns on this thread.

First off, let's talk about the toolset issue. Obviously in this community there's going to be some concern that we wouldn't release a toolset, so let me clear the air a little: The tools we're using to make Dragon Age 2 are very, very close to the tools you guys have used to make your mods for DA:O. They're not identical, as we've made a few in-house improvements, but they're almost identical. As such, there isn't a new toolset to release, per se.

While we won't be releasing a toolset update in tandem with Dragon Age 2, we ARE investigating what it would take to update the community toolset to match ours, along with providing DA2 content in the future.

As to the subject of tactical view, I can confirm that we will not be doing a tactical view on consoles, though we are looking into some expanded party control that I think will make console players quite happy.

On the PC, however, we are still working with the camera to keep the key elements of the tactical experience there. I was actually playtesting some new camera code when Victor found me, in fact, so I can give you the latest news on that front.

While we likely won't pull as far up as we did in DA:O, I have always felt that the key to tactical play was actually freeing your camera from the character you're controlling to issue precise orders, which is what we're tuning now. So, this means you can still maneuver the camera around the battlefield and issue orders from a remote location, just as you could in Origins.

As you can probably tell from my phrasing, all of this is a bit in-flux right now, so things may change between now and ship, but I wanted to update you guys on the current direction of things.

Mike..
Click to expand...

Don't mess with me, Bioware. Don't fucking do it.
 
kpop100 said:
Love the fact that a few console fans came in here to chip in that they have no complaints and are still buying it. Why would you be disappointed, nothing was changed in your version, you've had the inferior version from day 1.
Click to expand...
I'm kind of annoyed there even is a PC version to tell the truth. I know *nobody* that bought the game outright on PC. It gets obnoxious talking to someone about a game knowing you shelled out money for it and they didn't.
 
coopolon said:
Hope we eventually something a bit more committed about the tool set though, because "looking into updating it" isn't really enough, and the toolset is far more important to me then the view.
Click to expand...

yep. I personally wasn't too into gameplay affecting mods in Dragon Age as much as a sandbox RPG like Fallout 3 but graphic mods are important to me and fans will quickly fix overlooked or passed over features such as the ability to turn off helmets out of combat.
 
Aww, I was really looking forward to the Witcher 2 vs DA2 for PC Gamers dignity everywhere Hell in the Cell match. You guys really built it up into something big. :(
 
More than anything, I hope they dont mess with the other aspects, such as the difficulty settings. The console version of DA was really, really awkward and busted in a lot of places.
 
Son of Godzilla said:
I'm kind of annoyed there even is a PC version to tell the truth. I know *nobody* that bought the game outright on PC. It gets obnoxious talking to someone about a game knowing you shelled out money for it and they didn't.
Click to expand...

48 of my friends on Steam own the game
 
Son of Godzilla said:
I'm kind of annoyed there even is a PC version to tell the truth. I know *nobody* that bought the game outright on PC. It gets obnoxious talking to someone about a game knowing you shelled out money for it and they didn't.
Click to expand...

So why are you annoyed that there is a pc version? Do go on....
 
Alex said:
More than anything, I hope they dont mess with the other aspects, such as the difficulty settings. The console version of DA was really, really awkward and busted in a lot of places.
Click to expand...

The biggest problem with DA:O on consoles and all Bioware RPGs on consoles that I've played is that there is no real effective way to manage your party in the heat of battle, I'm guessing this is why PC gamers like the Isometric view. Square-Enix got this shit right on FFXII. This, is what Bioware needed to fix, in terms of the console version. They should have left the PC version be.
 
Son of Godzilla said:
I'm kind of annoyed there even is a PC version to tell the truth. I know *nobody* that bought the game outright on PC. It gets obnoxious talking to someone about a game knowing you shelled out money for it and they didn't.
Click to expand...
It looks like 35 of the people on my Steam friends list own it. Maybe the problem is the people you know. :^P
 
truly101 said:
The biggest problem with DA:O on consoles and all Bioware RPGs on consoles that I've played is that there is no real effective way to manage your party in the heat of battle, I'm guessing this is why PC gamers like the Isometric view. Square-Enix got this shit right on FFXII. This, is what Bioware needed to fix, in terms of the console version. They should have left the PC version be.
Click to expand...

You mean the gambits in FFXII? Because DAO has programmable tactics.
 
coopolon said:
You mean the gambits in FFXII? Because DAO has programmable tactics.
Click to expand...
Maybe I missed it but they didn't seem quite as specific as the gambits were. I liked DA:O a lot but found the combat to be cumbersome when shit got real. I felt that FFXII was a bit more intuitive for me.

I'm actually replaying DA:O now so maybe I will try to experiment with it a bit more.
 
truly101 said:
Maybe I missed it but they didn't seem quite as specific as the gambits were. I liked DA:O a lot but found the combat to be cumbersome when shit got real. I felt that FFXII was a bit more intuitive for me.
Click to expand...

They are definitely inferior to the FFXII system, at least the vanilla ones are. A pretty awesome mod (advanced tactics) was released on PC that really added a LOT more options.
 
it's coming out in months and the decision as to whether to add the toolset and isometric view are in-flux? unconvincing statement.
 
just for old time's sake:

Biowere said:
"When we originally started talking about Origins before it came out, there were a lot of questions about, 'Is the PC market dead?'" Melo recalled.

But despite those concerns, the PC version of the game "is doing really, really well," he said, adding, "It was really a surprise."

"I think the market was always there," Melo said. "Perhaps the idea of taking a console game and porting it back to PC wasn't working, but something like this -- which was built first for a PC audience -- I think that’s really paid off."
Click to expand...
 
Well that makes things simpler, if they're not going to make a game worth getting then I won't get it.

Really though, depressing, sad, but not exactly unexpected given the way the PC gaming market continues to go downhill so fast, Starcraft II excepted.
 
A Black Falcon said:
Really though, depressing, sad, but not exactly unexpected given the way the PC gaming market continues to go downhill so fast, Starcraft II excepted.
Click to expand...
Besides the anecdotal proof of publishers and developers crapping on the platform, where are the numbers to support this?
 
God fucking damnit!

What is up with the media surrounding this game? It's been all doom and gloom from media outlets about the PC version, but then some actual impressions by NeoGAF posters clear things up and Bioware occasionally does a bit of damage control.

I need to stop paying attention to the game completely. I've done a total 180 on my opinion of the game like 3 or 4 times already :lol

I will remain cautiously optimistic. From the wording of the Bioware guy's post, it sounds like the existing tools will work with DA2, but they won't have all of the new and improved features. As long as top-down works like the guy said, I'm happy. I don't need to be able to zoom out super far and see the entire map.
 
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