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Dragon Ball Super |OT2| June 12: Judgment Day

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I can buy Frost being stronger than old Freeza but I don't know about RF Freeza, even before Golden.

Why can't you buy it??

Frieza FF couldn't even cope with base form Goku. He was getting destroyed during ROF arc before his golden transformation.

Frost FF was way stronger than base Goku and he'd also done 3 years in the ROSAT between these two arcs.

Frost FF is far stronger than Frieza FF during ROF arc.
 
Why can't you buy it??

Frieza FF couldn't even cope with base form Goku. He was getting destroyed during ROF arc before his golden transformation.

Frost FF was way stronger than base Goku and he'd also done 3 years in the ROSAT between these two arcs.

Frost FF is far stronger than Frieza FF during ROF arc.

That final form has the same design as GF Freeza. You should compare that if you want to be fair, and GF Freeza >>>>> Frost.
 
Why can't you buy it??

Frieza FF couldn't even cope with base form Goku. He was getting destroyed during ROF arc before his golden transformation.

Frost FF was way stronger than base Goku and he'd also done 3 years in the ROSAT between these two arcs.

Frost FF is far stronger than Frieza FF during ROF arc.

IMHO Goku was entertaining Assault Mode Frost and it is only his final transformation that gave him trouble.

But it is only a small trouble; SSJ Goku can stop Frost on his tracks. SSB Goku cannot even do this to Golden Freeza. Yeah, three years of training, but still.

It also leaves us with the problem that Freeza, after fourth months of training discovered Golden mode, yet Frost, with a lifetime of actually fighting around planets (I don't think he trained four months just before the tourney? Freeza seemingly only ever rode his chair and blew up planets, so I assume Frost was more active than Freeza) somehow became stronger than RF Freeza, but did not discover Golden mode.

So the simpler explanation is that Frost is weaker than Freeza and that Goku is just humoring him so he can show off. Partially cause he thought Frost was a good guy anyway. On the other hand, DBS implies Freeza was holding back before going Golden too.

I don't make much of the 3 years of ROSAT cause, honestly, Goku and Vegeta are kind of shit at training on their own; Goku and the Earth lucked out that Gohan was there with tons of potential to channel into SSJ2, cause otherwise everyone else's training on ROSAT did not get them past Cell. Not even close. It took Vegeta other 7 years of gravity chamber to edge past Cell saga Gohan, and Goku discovered a transformation useless on earth. Good job guys.

OFC maybe they are reserving SSB if they are suspecting they are stronger than Beerus now but don't want to reveal their hand too soon. It's hard to tell. Before going into ROSAT, Vegeta suspected they were at the limit of their powers, but it is possible that Bulma warned Vegeta to keep their power level secret if they surpassed Beerus; Bulma is super suspicious of the whole Gods of Destructions business.
 
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That final form has the same design as GF Freeza. You should compare that if you want to be fair, and GF Freeza >>>>> Frost.

It doesn't really. It's clearly supposed to resemble Frieza's 4th form. Frieza is supposed to be a rare exception in his race. He is genetically superior and thats why he can achieve Golden form probably. But I'm sure Frost's FF is the equivalent to Frieza's FF.

IMHO Goku was entertaining Assault Mode Frost and it is only his final transformation that gave him trouble.

But it is only a small trouble; SSJ Goku can stop Frost on his tracks. SSB Goku cannot even do this to Golden Freeza. Yeah, three years of training, but still.

It also leaves us with the problem that Freeza, after fourth months of training discovered Golden mode, yet Frost, with a lifetime of actually fighting around planets (I don't think he trained four months just before the tourney? Freeza seemingly only ever rode his chair and blew up planets, so I assume Frost was more active than Freeza) somehow became stronger than RF Freeza, but did not discover Golden mode.

So the simpler explanation is that Frost is weaker than Freeza and that Goku is just humoring him so he can show off. Partially cause he thought Frost was a good guy anyway. On the other hand, DBS implies Freeza was holding back before going Golden too.

I don't make much of the 3 years of ROSAT cause, honestly, Goku and Vegeta are kind of shit at training on their own; Goku and the Earth lucked out that Gohan was there with tons of potential to channel into SSJ2, cause otherwise everyone else's training on ROSAT did not get them past Cell. Not even close. It took Vegeta other 7 years of gravity chamber to edge past Cell saga Gohan, and Goku discovered a transformation useless on earth. Good job guys.

OFC maybe they are reserving SSB if they are suspecting they are stronger than Beerus now but don't want to reveal their hand too soon. It's hard to tell. Before going into ROSAT, Vegeta suspected they were at the limit of their powers, but it is possible that Bulma warned Vegeta to keep their power level secret if they surpassed Beerus; Bulma is super suspicious of the whole Gods of Destructions business.

His assault form literally flew through Goku's kamehameha. There's no way you can really say that FF Frieza could've done that. It's not really absurd to say that Frost FF is stronger than Frieza's FF.

But we can also assume that Frieza is the only one of the race (that we know of) that is able to achieve a form after his FF (his golden form).
 
It's hard to tell which is stronger, but in Super Freeza did much better against Base Goku. While in the movie he was trounced by Base Goku in his 4th form.

As a whole it looks to me like Freeza's stronger than Frost even if your only comparing their 4th forms. Not to mention Piccolo was taken out by Freeza's first form while Frost was flat out going to lose if he didn't cheat.

I just can't see ROF Freeza having any trouble with Piccolo like Frost was.
 
It doesn't really. It's clearly supposed to resemble Frieza's 4th form. Frieza is supposed to be a rare exception in his race. He is genetically superior and thats why he can achieve Golden form probably. But I'm sure Frost's FF is the equivalent to Frieza's FF.

His assault form literally flew through Goku's kamehameha. There's no way you can really say that FF Frieza could've done that. It's not really absurd to say that Frost FF is stronger than Frieza's FF.

But we can also assume that Frieza is the only one of the race (that we know of) that is able to achieve a form after his FF (his golden form).

Both Freeza and Goku display more strength even before transforming back in the RF arc (both are flaring auras continuously, Goku in base form, Freeza in fourth form).

Universe Tourney base Goku doesn't really flare, not even during the fly-through-kamehameha incident. This could be better training (Whis suggests that all those flares are wasted power) but it could also be that just Goku ain't pushing himself as he knows Frost isn't really pushing either.


edit: there's also the whole Piccolo business, as Chaos-strike mentions. Freeza didn't need Golden to wtfpwn Piccolo. Frost struggled in fourth form. Piccolo didn't go to ROSAT this time, and I doubt training Gohan really shot him beyond RF FF Freeza.



This also informs us of Cabba's relative strength. Freeza destroyed the planet Vegeta due to fear of the Saiyans. It may well be that Frost, seeing a planet Salad full of goodie two shoes Saiyans, decided to put a goodie front. But he didn't destroy Salad. Maybe because he knows that right now, there are Saiyans out there who can wtfpwn him. Freeza feared a future Saiyan, but Frost could very well have feared a present, very tangible Saiyan. So Cabba should at least be FF Frost.

edit: did Beerus ask Freeza to destroy planet Vegeta in the anime? this seems to be a movie only thing, and even then a translation issue?
 
First ep of Super I've watched was the latest one with Frost vs Piccolo. Only watched bc Piccolo is the best character in all of DB.



Man this thing is disappointing.
 
Frost had already been battered around by Goku before Piccolo steps in the ring, though.

This rarely pans out in DB tho. I think only Vegeta during the Saiyan saga had been beaten down enough to really bring down his power to where Krillin and Gohan could handle him, and that was after a loooong, protracted fight with Goku. We don't really have many other examples; Goku gives a Senzu Seed to Cell, and of course Buu is largely immune to being beat up; Majin Vegeta had a long fight with Goku, but that was not really a factor on not being able to beat Majin Buu. The only other time it comes up is Goku vs Kid Buu, where Goku has to be given his stamina back for the final push, but the fight against Kid Buu was super long, nothing compared to Frost vs Goku.

Goku barely punched Frost for a few minutes. He is ok.
 
So, how is the show?
I wanted to rewatch the whole series before getting into this.
Good, like BOG takes the series back to its gag roots while continuing on from z. Rough start by retelling the two movies with worse animation but the new story is good enough to overcome the average to bad animation, which is the series biggest issue.
 
Good, like BOG takes the series back to its gag roots while continuing on from z. Rough start by retelling the two movies with worse animation but the new story is good enough to overcome the average to bad animation, which is the series biggest issue.
Yeah,I heard about the art stuff but everything else sounds cool.
 
First ep of Super I've watched was the latest one with Frost vs Piccolo. Only watched bc Piccolo is the best character in all of DB.

Man this thing is disappointing.

They made Vegeta see the Makankosapo for the first time (which I remember on rewatch he had never seen before...ha, Raditz), had Picollo perform an extended multi-form, remembered his stretchy arms for once (Z forgot about that completely), and had him nearly take out a superior opponent. Oh, and they had him use his regeneration whereas previously on Super Freeza just wasted him. Also, the bit with throwing his weighted clothing on the referee.

So despite being benched for a bit, I would not call that disappointing in terms of using the character's moves and knowledge.
 
They made Vegeta see the Makankosapo for the first time (which I remember on rewatch he had never seen before...ha, Raditz), had Picollo perform an extended multi-form, remembered his stretchy arms for once (Z forgot about that completely), and had him nearly take out a superior opponent. Oh, and they had him use his regeneration whereas previously on Super Freeza just wasted him. Also, the bit with throwing his weighted clothing on the referee.

So despite being benched for a bit, I would not call that disappointing in terms of using the character's moves and knowledge.

Is that true, trying to remember. Only remember him using it in the cooler movie
 
except the stuff before, between, and sometimes during the movie retellings is fantastically hilarious

soooooo make an informed decision instead of listening to cartoonish hatred
 
And yet, Beerus said that Goku in SSJ1 would be "barely" strong enough to defeat Freeza at the beginning of Super.

He didn't say that. He said that "But, if that's all you got, defeating Freeza would probably be the best you're capable of". It's fairly ambiguous - he could just have meant that he could beat Freeza, but was nowhere near his level. I don't think he ever referenced any of the post-Freeza villains.
 
watch the 2 movies and then start the universe tournament saga
DBS retelling of the 2 movies is crap and the animation is terrible.

BoG movie version was better but I liked the story re-telling/additions to the Resurrection F stuff in Super more.
 
It's not a good idea to speculate on this show on an episode by episode basis. Try doing that on dbz and see where that gets you

Literally went from the MC becoming an alien to going to a planet full of Piccolo's to fighting an alien that was very effeminate to a boy from the future warning the cast about 2 teenage cyborgs destroying the world to a bioengineered creature wanting to absorb those 2 teenagers to become PERFECT (also from the future, but not the same future), to the MC's son winning the spot as MC, to all of Buu.

Dragon Ball is not predictable and we don't even know exactly what will happen next episode!
 
I was kinda hoping that Frost was really and truly a good guy. That would imply the universe 7 is the evil universe and 6 is the good universe.
 
I was kinda hoping that Frost was really and truly a good guy. That would imply the universe 7 is the evil universe and 6 is the good universe.

That never mady any seanse it was always wishful thinking, Champa is not the evil version of Beerus, the Earth was not destroyed by a war, some of the best fighters and truly good people on both universes are Saiyans, the whole idea of dualism on the DB universe thing is nonsense.

I think they only made it this way to bring back some old favorites (Saiyans, Frieza.Beerus and who knows who else in the future) with a spin instead of pure original characters or carbon copies.

We shall see what more similarities and differences there are in the future.
 
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