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[The Silver]

Since KK doubles your power....

Couldn't he go like KK 20x as Blue SS and one shot Beerus? If SSG was a 6 to Beerus' 10. Even 2x would do it.

you don't what the difference between a "6" and a "10" is. Maybe you need to be 100x stronger to reach whatever a "7" is. Those numbers don't mean much when we don't know the math behind it, it's just something AT pulled out of his ass to quickly get across that Goku aint shit to Beerus and Whis.

 

[Slaythe]

Since KK doubles your power....

Couldn't he go like KK 20x as Blue SS and one shot Beerus? If SSG was a 6 to Beerus' 10. Even 2x would do it.

Why do people assume those are relatives numbers ?

He gave numbers to give a visual representation.

If you remember the "tree" and castle analogy of Whis, Kaioken wouldn't have helped at all back then.

SSB Kaioken now, that's something else. Remember that if Goku fails his move, he instantly loses. So it's not as easy as a cheat code.

 

[Sandfox]

He just did a 10x kaioken against Hit.

20x is far different from 10x and based on what has been posted here the technique isn't complete.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Goku somehow surpasses Vegeta, even though Vegeta had a six month head start on him, and they did the same training.

 

[Anth0ny]

That would probably kill Goku so...

goku used kaioken x20 against freeza

I always thought the stronger goku got, the more kaioken he could use. against vegeta he maxed out at x4. by the time he faced final form freeza, he was substantially more powerful and could sustain a kaioken x20.

by now, realistically, goku should be using kaioken x1000 without a problem. but, again, I figured super saiyan cancelled out the use of kaioken, which is why... he never used kaioken as a super saiyan. that could have helped him a bunch of times in dragon ball z!

 

[Unknown One]

I don't think Zenkais are a thing anymore.

 

[Kagari]

Goku somehow surpasses Vegeta, even though Vegeta had a six month head start on him, and they did the same training.

I feel like we're watching GT again.

 

[Hidden One]

Would be crazy if Goku pulled at x20 next week

 

[Ashodin]

yo breh

Gohan got a lot to go to catch up lol

 

[KingBroly]

goku used kaioken x20 against freeza

I always thought the stronger goku got, the more kaioken he could use. against vegeta he maxed out at x4. by the time he faced final form freeza, he was substantially more powerful and could sustain a kaioken x20.

by now, realistically, goku should be using kaioken x1000 without a problem. but, again, I figured super saiyan cancelled out the use of kaioken, which is why... he never used kaioken as a super saiyan. that could have helped him a bunch of times in dragon ball z!

I don't think Kaioken works the way you think it does.

 

[Calvero]

I don't think Kaioken works the way you think it does.

tbf I don't think we'll ever know how anything in the DB universe truly works

 

[Distresssss]

Kaioken is roughly equivalent in power boost equal to or less than the plot of the episode.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

yo breh

Gohan got a lot to go to catch up lol

Gohan might aswell give up. Anything that poses a threat to Vegeta or Goku now would murderkill Gohan with a mean look.

 

[Chaotic-Strike]

I feel like we're watching GT again.

Somebody get him a machine to teach him Kaioken.

 

[Sandfox]

goku used kaioken x20 against freeza

I always thought the stronger goku got, the more kaioken he could use. against vegeta he maxed out at x4. by the time he faced final form freeza, he was substantially more powerful and could sustain a kaioken x20.

by now, realistically, goku should be using kaioken x1000 without a problem. but, again, I figured super saiyan cancelled out the use of kaioken, which is why... he never used kaioken as a super saiyan. that could have helped him a bunch of times in dragon ball z!

I would imagine that combing Kaioken with SSJ(especially the later forms) would be more strain for his body. From a writing standpoint it would probably defeat the purpose of the other forms and the need for Goku to learn anything new.

 

[Anth0ny]

I don't think Kaioken works the way you think it does.

i mean

he used x4 when he was weak and it put an extreme stress on his body

he used x20 when he was stronger and it put less stress on his body

seemed pretty straight forward to me. hopefully we get a full explanation at some point.

Spoiler

we won't

 

[NeonZ]

So someone explain this to me

I thought the whole point of super Saiyan was that goku didn't need to use kaioken anymore... Which is why he didn't

And then the whole point of super Saiyan God was that goku didn't need to use ssj 1/2/3... Which is why he doesn't

So why the fuck did he just use kaioken as a super Saiyan God

Apparently Kaioken was too heavy to be used alongside SSJ, the strain was too big. However, with the ki control of God Ki, he can finally use SSJ(Blue, not standard one) and Kaioken together, although it's still a heavy strain on his body.

 

[Hidden One]

Vegeta and Goku fuse+SSJ Blue+KK x10=

 

[YoungOne]

Goku somehow surpasses Vegeta, even though Vegeta had a six month head start on him, and they did the same training.

I know Goku is the main character and all, but him surpassing vegeta with this info right here is nonsense.

 

[Chaotic-Strike]

i mean

he used x4 when he was weak and it put an extreme stress on his body

he used x20 when he was stronger and it put less stress on his body

seemed pretty straight forward to me. hopefully we get a full explanation at some point.

Spoiler

we won't

Super Saiyan itself caused alot of strain in the Cell saga just adding Kaioken is just going to make things worse and potentially wreck Goku's body.

I'm betting that during his most recent training he trained his stamina to be able to endure the Kaioken for short bursts and that's why Hit is able to still be able to fight him next episode.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Can Goku fuse as part of the tournament rules? They still have an empty slot left too.

Lets get a Kaioken SSJB Vegito.

 

[Anth0ny]

Apparently Kaioken was too heavy to be used alongside SSJ, the strain was too big. However, with the ki control of God Ki, he can finally use SSJ(Blue, not standard one) and Kaioken together, although it's still a heavy strain on his body.

ok I can buy that

god ki

god ki does it all man

 

[GaimeGuy]

It's literally been like 20 years worth of training since Goku fought Frieza. There is no reason why the Kaioken x10 should put such a strain on his body when he was using it pretty much passively during that whole fight.

 

[The Silver]

kaioken can never get to be more than x50 because that would make it stronger than SS1, x1000 would make it stronger than SS3 which is x400(from the daizenshuu)

 

[N.Domixis]

Vegeta and Goku fuse+SSJ Blue+KK x10=

So much energy condensed to one location would collapse into a black hole.

 

[Slaythe]

It's literally been like 20 years worth of training since Goku fought Frieza. There is no reason why the Kaioken x10 should put such a strain on his body when he was using it pretty much passively during that whole fight.

He kept training with Kaioken though before that freeza fight.

Here he probably kept training as SSB and just thought about mixing it up as trump card.

Remember when he became a god, he wasn't used at all at his new speed and whatnot.

I assume Kaioken require extreme knowledge of your own limits.

x10 is probably deemed enough by Goku. And let's be honest, it looked like it was. He couldn't expect Hit to have even more in store.

My point is, Hit wasn't touched by that kamehameha. Whatever he did to avoid it, it wouldn't have mattered if Goku did a x15822 Kaioken or x10 kaioken.

I think that's the point of what Hit did to escape it.

 

[GaimeGuy]

He kept training with Kaioken though before that freeza fight.

Here he probably kept training as SSB and just thought about mixing it up as trump card.

Remember when he became a god, he wasn't used at all at his new speed and whatnot.

I assume Kaioken require extreme knowledge of your own limits.

x10 is probably deemed enough by Goku. And let's be honest, it looked like it was. He couldn't expect Hit to have even more in store.

My point is, Hit wasn't touched by that kamehameha. Whatever he did to avoid it, it wouldn't have mattered if Goku did a x15822 Kaioken or x10 kaioken.

I think that's the point of what Hit did to escape it.

That's also the point of why Goku being able to match Hit is FUCKING BULLSHIT.


As Kagari told me, this is some serious Deux Ex Goku / Goku Ex Machina going on.

 

[Magwik]

Dragon Ball Super |OT2| ZA WARUDO

 

[Chaotic-Strike]

All right all these tweets are from Herms and should clear up a lot of things.

"I guess Hit finally expands his Time-Skip out to 0.5 seconds. Maybe? It's worded a bit strange."

"Vegeta explains that using Super Saiyan and Kaio-Ken together is basically suicide, so Goku didn't use the technique for a long time."

" But the Super Saiyan Blue form has really good ki control, making this combination finally possible.""

"Beerus does seem uneasy at the prospect of Goku using the technique against him, but denies it when Whis teases him about it."

"Goku says the SSB+KK was an "incomplete" technique with only a 10% chance of succeeding (meaning a 90% chance of him dying)"

 

[The Silver]

poor Vegeta, he needs to find some more masters and make sure Goku never hears about it.

 

[Pankratous]

Goku somehow surpasses Vegeta, even though Vegeta had a six month head start on him, and they did the same training.

Uh.

Yeah, because Vegeta's first 6 months were spent catching up on the gains Goku already had as

1) An SSJ3
2) A god

 

[Chaotic-Strike]

That's also the point of why Goku being able to match Hit is FUCKING BULLSHIT.


As Kagari told me, this is some serious Deux Ex Goku / Goku Ex Machina going on.

It's almost like power levels are bullshit....

 

[Tamanon]

I just look forward to TeamFourStar getting to bust out "Kaio-what-now?" again in 20 years when they get to this episode.

 

[Chaotic-Strike]

Oh and apparently according to the next episode preview Hit hasn't been fighting at full power.

....Called it.

 

[Slaythe]

That's also the point of why Goku being able to match Hit is FUCKING BULLSHIT.


As Kagari told me, this is some serious Deux Ex Goku / Goku Ex Machina going on.

I think you need to change your view on Hit's ability.

He doesn't literally "freeze" time. He slows it down to the point where it looks like nothing is moving. If something is too fast, it won't be affected by that ability.

That's how I made sense of it.

 

[Hidden One]

I just look forward to TeamFourStar getting to bust out "Kaio-what-now?" again in 20 years when they get to this episode.

Wasn't there talks that they were stopping after Cell?

 

[Slaythe]

Oh and apparently according to the next preview Hit hasn't been fighting at full power.

....Called it.

RIP Goku, u fot wel.

"Vegeta explains that using Super Saiyan and Kaio-Ken together is basically suicide, so Goku didn't use the technique for a long time."

That is complete genius. Because the only times he used it, in that filler, HE WAS ALREADY DEAD. So it adds up with the toei logic. Can't even be mad. Also adds up with how he came up with SSJ3, he comments that his alive body doesn't work the same way.

 

[Error]

catching up with this, currently on RoF arc.

:sigh thanks Chi-chi for destroying what could've the greatest warrior in Dragon Ball, Gohan jobbing reached Yamcha levels.

 

[GaimeGuy]

"It's suicide" is meaningless WHEN THEY HAVE DRAGON BALLS

 

[Anth0ny]

" But the Super Saiyan Blue form has really good ki control, making this combination finally possible.""

yeah I'm fine with this explanation. never considered god ki.

carry on, dragon ball super.

 

[Kagari]

catching up with this, currently on RoF arc.

:sigh thanks Chi-chi for destroying what could've the greatest warrior in Dragon Ball, Gohan jobbing reached Yamcha levels.

Keep watching. They're just repeating a development from Z to give him motivation later.

 

[mkfred]

this episode was simply amazing. That transformation, the color work, and the theme playing during the fight. I was hyped

 

[Unknown One]

The aura within an aura is pretty neat. Kind of like an actual flame.

 

[Chaotic-Strike]

"It's suicide" is meaningless WHEN THEY HAVE DRAGON BALLS

They aren't going to stop any villians if they're dead.

 

[Merc_]

"It's suicide" is meaningless WHEN THEY HAVE DRAGON BALLS

Dragon balls are for after the fighting is over. It does them no favor during the battle. You think whatever villain they are facing at the time is just going to stand back and let them summon the dragon?

 

[Enter the Dragon Punch]

people mad

it's a great episode and I don't have an issue with "Goku Ex Machina"

Spoiler

and we already know our universe wins so whatever

 

[Slaythe]

From Herms :
"Hit's power-up scream? Didn't actually power him up at all. He was just imitating Goku."

WOW. Damn DB Super. Hitting those right notes.

Also...........

Since Monaka can't do shit, and Hit is untouched......

Is Goku gonna die ?

If he dies, Hit loses the match.....

 

[sleverfunk]

So is hit not fighting in his full power or does he improve whenever he fights someone strong?

 

[KingBroly]

i mean

he used x4 when he was weak and it put an extreme stress on his body

he used x20 when he was stronger and it put less stress on his body

seemed pretty straight forward to me. hopefully we get a full explanation at some point.

Spoiler

we won't

It basically makes him stronger in whatever form he's in. While it's possible for him to extend his body the more powerful he is, it's still gonna fuck him up cuz he's multiplying his increased power.

 

[Tamanon]

It'd be pretty cool to have Hit kill Goku, and that's what causes Champa's team to lose. Would allow several different directions for the characters to go.