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Dragon Ball Super |OT7| Please wait for Tien to be cool.

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It'll get a lot more interesting once the big players are the only ones left, and we can get some proper and lengthy one on one battles.

Yeah probably, and some more substantial interactions.

Because honestly I don't even enjoy that fighting that much (most of the time) in this show. It's stuff around the fighting itself that I most enjoy.
 
Disappointing is a good word for it. Thankfully next week looks a lot better.
This will be the first episode of the tournament with some good 17 action, right? I'm excited for that. The first episode he fought two troopers for like 2 seconds, and this one he kicked someone I guess.

I remember the Krillin episode "WE HAVE INFINITE ENERGY LET'S GO!" disappears for the rest of the episode
 

Skeeter49

Member
We're back on the SSJ3 is a garbage transformation train. ok
It's always been a garbage transformation. There's never been a moment it wasn't, except maybe early Buu saga when we didn't see how draining it was when Goku wasn't dead.

Gotenks is really the only one who can use it effectively.
 

Slaythe

Member
This episode kinda exposed King Ryu. I feel like most his episodes are loved because they have great production values, with great spectacle to make up for extremely shallow and convenient writing.

But here, there's nothing to mask the flaws of his script, and it's kind of painful. The episode isn't liked very much it seems.

Anyway, next week looks great, so I'm excited. I like that all the episodes have been giving something entirely different each time, and mad respect to them to provide non stop action week after week. That's not something I thought we'd see, even if that means some episodes are going to be really bad due to the staff rotation.


Speaking of which, are there any One Piece specials coming up ? I thought I saw that in an AD but I could be 100% wrong.
 

Eylos

Banned
This episode kinda exposed King Ryu. I feel like most his episodes are loved because they have great production values, with great spectacle to make up for extremely shallow and convenient writing.

But here, there's nothing to mask the flaws of his script, and it's kind of painful. The episode isn't liked very much it seems.

Anyway, next week looks great, so I'm excited. I like that all the episodes have been giving something entirely different each time, and mad respect to them to provide non stop action week after week. That's not something I thought we'd see, even if that means some episodes are going to be really bad due to the staff rotation.


Speaking of which, are there any One Piece specials coming up ? I thought I saw that in an AD but I could be 100% wrong.

How many teams there is for super?
 

Mory Dunz

Member
It's always been a garbage transformation. There's never been a moment it wasn't, except maybe early Buu saga when we didn't see how draining it was when Goku wasn't dead.

Gotenks is really the only one who can use it effectively.

It was his choice against kid buu and beerus when he was alive. (And buutenks but that was filler)
shrug.
 

LotusHD

Banned
This episode kinda exposed King Ryu. I feel like most his episodes are loved because they have great production values, with great spectacle to make up for extremely shallow and convenient writing.

But here, there's nothing to mask the flaws of his script, and it's kind of painful. The episode isn't liked very much it seems.

Anyway, next week looks great, so I'm excited. I like that all the episodes have been giving something entirely different each time, and mad respect to them to provide non stop action week after week. That's not something I thought we'd see, even if that means some episodes are going to be really bad due to the staff rotation.


Speaking of which, are there any One Piece specials coming up ? I thought I saw that in an AD but I could be 100% wrong.

http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Episode_of_East_Blue
 

Slaythe

Member
Ow0kL_f-maxage-0.gif

When are we gonna see what Freeza is up to though

Well, why not during the One piece Special week ? Hope you missed the galactic overlord Blobza from Super FnF.
 

I-hate-u

Member
I liked this episode a lot:

-Goku and Caulifla dynamic was great and believable.

-We only knew him as a tremendous fighter, but Hit's scenes also showed him as a team player and tactician like Gohan.

-Kale's transformation was a little meh to me but her fight scenes were pretty much a love letter to fans of movie 8.

The way Agumon from U11 elimination, Cabba's badass scene, and Vegeta's comments about LSSJ, this episode had a lot of cool moments.
 

Fandangox

Member
TI can't believe Kale is just a brain dead Broly rip off. Literally nothing interesting about her and her trigger is almost as stupid as Broly. Apparently you can't talk to Caulifla or Kale might just kill you.

The other two U6 Saiyans are fine, but Kale is fucking terrible, just the worst character archetypes both in and out of transformation.
 

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
Man the art in this episode was rough, looked like something you'd see in the early episodes of the show.

Specially jarring when coming from MHA.
 

PK Gaming

Member
All this U6 Saiyan hate makes me want the next episode to stay focused on them just so we can have yet more overblown hate spewed their way.

Me, I'm enjoying the fact that we finally have some relevant female fighters too much to ever let a lack of previous development get in the way of that enjoyment. Especially after how long the pre-tournament arc already was without them diving hard into Caulifla's past.

All of this is irrelevant if everyone stays erased anyway (which they better not be).

I didn't think they could ever make female saiyan's and have it work, but they miraculously managed to pull it off. The female saiyan's feel goofy and distinct enough to fit into the DB world (instead of overly sexy or generic like the average female saiyan fanart). Even Caulifa's incredibly shonen-esque desire of wanting to get stronger sets her apart from your typical DBZ female character as well.

My only issue with them is Kale's SSB design (because fuck Broly), but everything about her character is great. She is almost unfathomably entertaining.
 
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thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Well, I really enjoyed the episode, if only for Cabba and Caulifla getting into the fray. Fun to see those two being pretty badass.

U6 is super stacked for supposedly being underdogs, with U11 being the only other meaningful threat. U6 and U7 have all but 1 of the eliminations so far. It'll still be fun continuing seeing the jobbers from U2, U3, U4, and U10 get eliminated.

Wonder if U10 can even get one elimination before their sure to be soon erasure. Zamasu was right to be disappointed in his universe's mortals after all.
 

Skeeter49

Member
I feel like Kale works best when she isn't going psycho. Like when she was telling Caulifla that beating Goku up isn't a way to thank him.

Kale's character is a crazy stalker saiyan right now.

How did she survive being in a gang? What stopped them from beating her up everyday? Unrealistic gang.

Well, I really enjoyed the episode, if only for Cabba and Caulifla getting into the fray. Fun to see those two being pretty badass.

U6 is super stacked for supposedly being underdogs, with U11 being the only other meaningful threat. U6 and U7 have all but 1 of the eliminations so far. It'll still be fun continuing seeing the jobbers from U2, U3, U4, and U10 get eliminated.

Wonder if U10 can even get one elimination before their sure to be soon erasure. Zamasu was right to be disappointed in his universe's mortals after all.

They deserved a win against Kale. Gowasu deserved something to put on his tombstone. :(
 

Gin-Shiio

Member
What was King Ryu supposed to do with the characters? They already have established personalities.

Also, why is Caulifla having trouble to go SSJ2 again bad writing, but her being able to achieve it easily initially is too?
 

Auto_aim1

MeisaMcCaffrey
Champa has a 0 - 4 record against Beerus. I doubt his Universe will win, I think he's kind of a joke god. Adore him though.
 
I feel like Kale works best when she isn't going psycho. Like when she was telling Caulifla that beating Goku up isn't a way to thank him.

Kale's character is a crazy stalker saiyan right now.

How did she survive being in a gang? What stopped them from beating her up everyday? Unrealistic gang.

It's really bizarre seeing as how she's supposed to be Cauli's "protege" when we see nothing at all about it. Everything about her is just afraid of anything, afraid of trying. I wanna see Cauli/Kale alone to maybe get SOME sense of this "protege" relationship and hopefully see Kale actually train as this fighter she's supposed to be.
 
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thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Champa has a 0 - 4 record against Beerus. I doubt his Universe will win, I think he's kind of a joke god. Adore him though.

Is there any way U7 doesn't win?

I am hoping Goku can convince Zen-Oh to undo all the destruction at the end. I don't want U6 and U11 gone from the fiction for good.
 

Eylos

Banned
Is there any way U7 doesn't win?

I am hoping Goku can convince Zen-Oh to undo all the destruction at the end. I don't want U6 and U11 gone from the fiction for good.
2 i Can imagine

1- Zen-oh Changes mind when he's about to erase Goku

2- jiren asks sheng long the universes back

Edit: 3-nobody was erased but teleported
 
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thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Maybe Zen-oh just gets sad that they can't do the tournament again until they realise they can as long as they rebuild all the universes.
 
It's really bizarre seeing as how she's supposed to be Cauli's "protege" when we see nothing at all about it. Everything about her is just afraid of anything, afraid of trying. I wanna see Cauli/Kale alone to maybe get SOME sense of this "protege" relationship and hopefully see Kale actually train as this fighter she's supposed to be.

Both females dont even have a signature attack or tactics or synergy or huh...anything at all.

Cabba too, like did he even trained?
 

Skeeter49

Member
It's really bizarre seeing as how she's supposed to be Cauli's "protege" when we see nothing at all about it. Everything about her is just afraid of anything, afraid of trying. I wanna see Cauli/Kale alone to maybe get SOME sense of this "protege" relationship and hopefully see Kale actually train as this fighter she's supposed to be.

I'm assuming it's like Piccolo and Gohan during the Saiyan saga.
Caulifla beats her up. Kale doesn't make any progress because she's getting beat up by the only person she has an attachment to. She doesn't improve because of that.

In terms of teamwork. I doubt Caulifla sent Kale out to do any fighting, giving them little opportunities to work as a team.
 

Skeeter49

Member
Caulifla has one, but she didn't used it on the tournament so far:
r1vnur.gif

And kale used some cool moves as broly

She hasn't used one move that wasn't in Broly's arsenal though.
Besides generic ki blast #52 when Goku insulted her.

At least Cabba has something new. and never seen before. The Galick Gun.

I wouldn't count that red attack as a ki attack/ signature attack. She's only used it once and it doesn't have a name. Champa's slacking. Rule of thumb, if they didn't give it a name, then the GoD has to.
 

Akiller

Member
I think Goku's comment about SSJ3 was taken too seriously , i mean he saw Cauli going SSJ2 easily so imo it was kinda obvious to react with a "You might reach SSJ3 too at this point!".

Btw, the Goku-Caulifla interaction was the best thing of the episode, they're fun to watch together and i hope to see more of that in the future.
 

Sony

Nintendo
Raditz somehow was much stronger than a Goku who trained with what was, at the time, the highest "God", and also had absorbed the power of Oozaru into his base form. Gohan's anger boost then takes him from basically normal human level to above the god trained Oozaru absorbed Goku, and also Raditz himself.

Obviously, numerically, it's lower than Kale's power up, but in a relative scale it was basically throwing away everything that happened before, which is basically the same thing Super is doing. The only issue here is that you don't have an emotional attachment to the power ups trashed by DBZ, while the ones introduced by DBZ itself are clearly important to you.

No, it's not somehow. You can't even question that sequence as Raditz was established as Goku's brother, from a Warrior race who actually acts upon being from a warrior race by being a spacepirate, plundering planets and Shit. Besides, when this more powerful enemy appeared, Goku or Piccolo didn't get an asspul powerboost to defeat him, they has to do it together and barely managed.


The main problem is that the near death power ups get stupidly large later in the Freeza Saga. Goku getting near death once due to Ginyu gave him much more power than all the training and near death experiences in the ship put together. And then we have Vegeta making a joke out of near death power ups with Dende's instant healing, that although completely useless against Freeza, still trashes Piccolo's power boost that was only obtained by sacrificing another character.

Sure, the near death power up do get large and you make like or dislike the idea behind this Powerup. However, there was an idea behind it. It was established that a near death experience gives you a power boost. The boost didn't come out of nowhere. So again, you might like or dislike this, but at least there is a thought behind it. It happened according to the rules.

The big issue here is Piccolo's treatment. You mention him getting a power boost alongside Goku and Vegeta, but throughout the arc he's constantly treated like he's weaker than he was in the Cell Saga. The last time we had seen them, he was able to face a Cell Jr, who was about on Vegeta's level, but in the Buu Saga we get lines like Vegeta's confidence about winning the tournament in base or Dabura lumping Piccolo and Kuririn as the weakest ones in Goku's party, in spite of not having sensed SSJ and being surprised by it. Piccolo might have been intended to still be stronger than Goten and Trunks though, but even there the only element suggesting that was Buu taking his outfit after running out of time for Gotenks, when his advantage compared to them should have been much clearer.

So the issue here is Piccolo being too weak rather than other character getting an inexplicable power boost? Fair point, but it out of the scope that we're discussing.


That isn't quite right. Freeza trained until he obtained his new form, and that's it. He had no idea what would be the power necessary to beat Goku, just thought his new form would be enough. That's also why he couldn't control it well, since he left as soon as he got it.

And the large scale of a power up is just a consequence of the series continuing to advance, just like DBZ's power ups were much higher than DB's. The actual problem here is the show putting no effort into visually showcasing this growth after the BoGs arc and the 4 months time period. For similar reasons, SSB was also unsatisfying in spite of coming from training with a proper master and in a longer period.

This isn't true. When Frieza was revived, Sorbet told him that Goku defeated Majin Buu. Frieza then told Sorbet that he would train for 4 months to reach new heights. He announced it. However, his Golden Form is orders of magnitude more power powerful than Majin Buu, like, it's equivalent the jump from SS3 to SSB. And then to think that Frieza at that point was equivalent to SS1, making the jump of 4 month equivalent to a jump Frieza arc SS1 to RoF arc SSB. It's ridiculously stupid.

It was established that he matched Vegeta in base and was the leader of some elite Saiyan unit. The actual problem here is that it's really not believable that he'd get to such a high level and never have gone through emotional stress in battle.

Nowhere is it established that base strength correlates with the ease of going SSJ. Also, nowhere is it established that any emotional stress leads to SS. If so, Goku would have been SS much earlier in his fight against Frieza.

For Kale's power ups, they are trying to sell the idea that she's transforming due to her emotional instability and frustration, similar to Kid Gohan's anger boosts (and also like them although trashing what came before they still seem significantly bellow the actual main antagonist).

The reason why Kale's transformation is asinine is the difference in power from base to LSS. Broly was already a monster in base form. Goku and Vegeta could barely scratch his base. His LSS form was thus a much more natural transformation. For Kale it makes no sense because her base is crazy weak.

Bro, your hate boner for DBS needs to calm down :p

Saiyan Saga

Piccolo & co went from not being able to do jack shit to Raditz to being able kill Raditz's in the form of the Saibamen. Well, except Yamcha because life is pain when you're Yamcha.

There was 1 year between Raditz and Vegeta and the power boost can easily be explained as training in that year.

Krillin decides to not kill the person who was, in part, responsible for the death of his friends and the reason why he had trained in the first place. Why? Because Goku wanted a better fight! :D

What does this have to do with power boost?

Speaking of Goku, he went from being even weaker than Piccolo to stomping Nappa with one move. Because he trained, running around in a planet with 10x gravity.

Not sure what you're criticism is? He's stronger because he trained? Ehh..

Frieza Saga

The literal lord of the mortal Universe whom no one could touch or present a challenge got defeated by someone who, a few months earlier, could barely stand up to pre-Namek Geets. A dude that trained during his space ride and made a ridiculous amount of progress (a la Freeza in DBS) in the week or however long said journey was.

Wrong again. Frieza's power boost in DBS is equivalent to going from Frieza arc SS1 to RoF arc SSB. Are you telling me the jump in power that much?

Again you're completely missing the point. You're again telling me: "he's stronger because he trained! BS!". you're not making any sense.

Still the power difference was so great that Freeza only went all out after Goku transformed, the dude was cleaning house with 50% of his power. Also when he transformed his (Goku) stamina magically came back. Which never happens again btw.

What. Are. You. Trying. To. Say.

Also, Krilling dying in DB didn't cause a transformation. I wonder why.... :D

Because you don't know what you're talking about.

Android Saga

Random scientist makes Androids STRONGER than any power level he had ever seen, witnessed or heard about on Earth. Even stronger than Freeza, by quite the margin. Not only that, those Androids are more advanced than anything else we've ever seen, even from other Universes. All this to kill a person, that even with the magical power boost gained in the previous saga, didn't have a hope of beating either 17 or 18.

Overkill much?

Again, what are you trying to say? We are discussing power BOOSTS here. The power DELTA. Character X becoming much stronger. The Androids were spawned as strong. And the power boost needed to defeat them can logically be explained due to the Z Fighters being warned about them coming so they could train. This is different from a very strong character appearing, which isn't new in DB, and then getting a power boost pulled from the ass to match or beat that person, which seems to be DBS' signature move.


Cell Saga

Afterwards a random creature appears that not only gets stronger by absorbing regular old Humans, but also Androids. Because. Cell then decides to NOT kill everyone right away after reaching his Perfect Form and makes a tournament. Because.

Because he has Saiyan cells and considers himself the strongest. Who else would do something like this? Oh yeah Goku, and Cell has his cells. What does this have to do with power boosts again? You have no clue what you're talking about.

Also, Gohan can become a SSJ now. That's 4 Legendary transformations. Also they have multiple forms now. ALSO, Gohan goes beyond all of the more experienced fighters because "potential". Ends up failing to kill Cell on his own regardless. Potential?

Gohan's potential has been established since the first couple of episodes of DBZ and were re emphasizes when he fought Frieza's second form. So throughout the series, breadcrumbs were layed out to finally get to that moment of Gohan harnessing that potential. Again, there is no controversy here. You, again, have no clue what you're talking about.

Btw everyone from these two arcs made Freeza, the previous Lord of the Universe, look like a Yamcha. Power scaling, yay! Speaking of, his life is still pain. Literal pain.

Yes, a lot of the Fighters were stronger than Frieza. But, and holy Shit AGAIN, the Fighters have increased in power because of TRAINING. Caulifla's power boost is pulled from the ass, Kale's power boost is pulled from the ass, even 17's is pulled from the ass (sorry Slaythe). The once instance where they do say that someone trained for his power boost - Frieza - the magnituse of his power boost is pulled from the ass.


Buu Saga

Magical creature that was stronger than everyone and everything from the known mortal Universe was somehow locked in a ball that was controlled by a weakling magician from outer space.

Geets, Goku & Gohan refuse to deal with the situation properly and quickly and let it escalate to the death and destruction of the entire Human population. Geets manages to get a rematch with Goku though. Alas Geets causes Buu to get free.

You're seriously getting annoying in how incoherent your rants are. Vegeta wanted nothing more than to fight Goku, even before Majin Buu was mentioned. Then, he witnessed is Babidi's chamber that Goku was much stronger than him and he let himself go Majin to get a power boost similar to Spopovic, to beat Goku. Vegeta has always been arrogant. He let Cell become perfect Cell because he thought "Super Vegeta" could beat him. He didn't care for Buu's awakening because he thought Buu was weak and he could have him. Again, there is no controversy here. You're grasping at straws.

See? DBZ was so well put together and not all filled with logical leaps! :O

RocknRola, you have no clue what you're talking about. Not only did you manage to sway from the discussion about power boosts (and not understand it) but the jabs you tried to take at Z are easily deflected. It's crazy how uninformed you are. That you even attempt to normalize DBS' shenanigans by pointing to something in DBZ is ludicrous. DBZ shits on DBS from orbit in terms of consistency and buildup. I haven't come across anyone in any Dragonball discussion who was so wrong about everything like you, and so incoherent.
 

NeonZ

Member
No, it's not somehow. You can't even question that sequence as Raditz was established as Goku's brother, from a Warrior race who actually acts upon being from a warrior race by being a spacepirate, plundering planets and Shit. Besides, when this more powerful enemy appeared, Goku or Piccolo didn't get an asspul powerboost to defeat him, they has to do it together and barely managed.

But Gohan got one. And why is beating up weaklings better than training with God and absorb the power of Oozaru? And then Saiyan Saga itself then goes on to completely contradict itself when suddenly god's training allows the humans to reach powers around Raditz level in a single year (which only gets more problematic when the Cell Saga goes and retcons how he still kept secrets from them, like the Room of Space and Time).

Sure, the near death power up do get large and you make like or dislike the idea behind this Powerup. However, there was an idea behind it. It was established that a near death experience gives you a power boost. The boost didn't come out of nowhere. So again, you might like or dislike this, but at least there is a thought behind it. It happened according to the rules.

The boost did come out of nowhere. Goku had almost died against Piccolo Daimao and didn't notice any boosts when he recovered. The series in Namek throws a comment about Kuririn noticing Goku always got stronger after recovering, but it's basically a lie which was never mentioned before. And, in spite of introducing this power up out of nowhere, the Freeza Saga itself goes on to vastly increase the power Saiyans get from it during the very same arc. It was an inconsistent and broken mess, which is why Toriyama had to basically shelve it as a plot device for the heroes as soon as Namek as over.

So the issue here is Piccolo being too weak rather than other character getting an inexplicable power boost? Fair point, but it out of the scope that we're discussing.

It's all relative. Either way, we suddenly get Goku, Gohan and Vegeta in base being treated as stronger than Piccolo for no reason at all.

This isn't true. When Frieza was revived, Sorbet told him that Goku defeated Majin Buu. Frieza then told Sorbet that he would train for 4 months to reach new heights. He announced it. However, his Golden Form is orders of magnitude more power powerful than Majin Buu, like, it's equivalent the jump from SS3 to SSB. And then to think that Frieza at that point was equivalent to SS1, making the jump of 4 month equivalent to a jump Frieza arc SS1 to RoF arc SSB. It's ridiculously stupid.

I mean, yes, he announced it, but what I said is still true. He came back as soon as he unlocked his new form, which resulted in him controlling it poorly.

Nowhere is it established that base strength correlates with the ease of going SSJ. Also, nowhere is it established that any emotional stress leads to SS. If so, Goku would have been SS much earlier in his fight against Frieza.

The Namek Saga had various lines about surpassing the wall of the Saiyans, being stronger enough to be a SSJ by lacking the heart and a pure furious heart. There isn't a clear definition, but it has to be basically a mix of power and strength, otherwise the events there wouldn't make sense (It wasn't the first time Goku was enraged, and his rage there wasn't especially greater than in previous cases).

The reason why Kale's transformation is asinine is the difference in power from base to LSS. Broly was already a monster in base form. Goku and Vegeta could barely scratch his base. His LSS form was thus a much more natural transformation. For Kale it makes no sense because her base is crazy weak.
She suffers from the same issue as Kid Gohan in the first half of the Saiyan Saga, being unwilling to fight due to her personality.
 

tri_willy

Member
Not sure if anyone covered this, but imagine if Frieza obtained his Golden form because Goku donated his Super Saiyan energy back in their fight in Namek
 

Karsha

Member
SSJ3 was stronger than Kid Buu though, he just couldn't keep up with the infinite regeneration and stamina. Also Goku has a single fight with that transformation, its not fair to compare it to other forms(he still is more memorable as a ssj3 while ssj2 exists only for Gohan)
 
Well, so far my only hope for this arc is something "unexpected" really happens, otherwise Super will still feel dull to me.

Still no sense of danger, terror or desperatiom like any other arc in Z: Raditz, Nappa and Vegeta did quite well, Freeza was scary and a real threat to the group, so was the Androids / Cell arc in which there was a feeling of desperation when the andoids were beating the hell of everyone while looking for Goku, or Cell looking for the androids.. even the Majin Buu saga had its scary moments because of how powerful and evil was Buu kid.

Right now Super is just a tournament, with no additions other than "the last universe standing will the only survivor and will get the super dragon balls", which doesn't appeal to me, so I just hope any new villain appears and things get interesting.
 
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thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Well, so far my only hope for this arc is something "unexpected" really happens, otherwise Super will still feel dull to me.

Still no sense of danger, terror or desperatiom like any other arc in Z: Raditz, Nappa and Vegeta did quite well, Freeza was scary and a real threat to the group, so was the Androids / Cell arc in which there was a feeling of desperation when the andoids were beating the hell of everyone while looking for Goku, or Cell looking for the androids.. even the Majin Buu saga had its scary moments because of how powerful and evil was Buu kid.

Right now Super is just a tournament, with no additions other than "the last universe standing will the only survivor and will get the super dragon balls", which doesn't appeal to me, so I just hope any new villain appears and things get interesting.

Would Goku being eliminated at some point fairly early on count as unexpected? I feel that's pretty possible but would be a large departure from the path you would typically expect.

I do admit it would be boring if Goku just powers his way through the tournament while all the side characters do the same jobbing we've become accustomed to by this point.
 

RocknRola

Member
.



There was 1 year between Raditz and Vegeta and the power boost can easily be explained as training in that year.



What does this have to do with power boost?



Not sure what you're criticism is? He's stronger because he trained? Ehh..



Wrong again. Frieza's power boost in DBS is equivalent to going from Frieza arc SS1 to RoF arc SSB. Are you telling me the jump in power that much?

Again you're completely missing the point. You're again telling me: "he's stronger because he trained! BS!". you're not making any sense.



What. Are. You. Trying. To. Say.



Because you don't know what you're talking about.



Again, what are you trying to say? We are discussing power BOOSTS here. The power DELTA. Character X becoming much stronger. The Androids were spawned as strong. And the power boost needed to defeat them can logically be explained due to the Z Fighters being warned about them coming so they could train. This is different from a very strong character appearing, which isn't new in DB, and then getting a power boost pulled from the ass to match or beat that person, which seems to be DBS' signature move.




Because he has Saiyan cells and considers himself the strongest. Who else would do something like this? Oh yeah Goku, and Cell has his cells. What does this have to do with power boosts again? You have no clue what you're talking about.



Gohan's potential has been established since the first couple of episodes of DBZ and were re emphasizes when he fought Frieza's second form. So throughout the series, breadcrumbs were layed out to finally get to that moment of Gohan harnessing that potential. Again, there is no controversy here. You, again, have no clue what you're talking about.



Yes, a lot of the Fighters were stronger than Frieza. But, and holy Shit AGAIN, the Fighters have increased in power because of TRAINING. Caulifla's power boost is pulled from the ass, Kale's power boost is pulled from the ass, even 17's is pulled from the ass (sorry Slaythe). The once instance where they do say that someone trained for his power boost - Frieza - the magnituse of his power boost is pulled from the ass.




You're seriously getting annoying in how incoherent your rants are. Vegeta wanted nothing more than to fight Goku, even before Majin Buu was mentioned. Then, he witnessed is Babidi's chamber that Goku was much stronger than him and he let himself go Majin to get a power boost similar to Spopovic, to beat Goku. Vegeta has always been arrogant. He let Cell become perfect Cell because he thought "Super Vegeta" could beat him. He didn't care for Buu's awakening because he thought Buu was weak and he could have him. Again, there is no controversy here. You're grasping at straws.



RocknRola, you have no clue what you're talking about. Not only did you manage to sway from the discussion about power boosts (and not understand it) but the jabs you tried to take at Z are easily deflected. It's crazy how uninformed you are. That you even attempt to normalize DBS' shenanigans by pointing to something in DBZ is ludicrous. DBZ shits on DBS from orbit in terms of consistency and buildup. I haven't come across anyone in any Dragonball discussion who was so wrong about everything like you, and so incoherent.

First of all, chill my dude. If you wanna throw around insults we're gonna have a fun old time and get banned :)

Secondly the point was and still is: POWER LEVELS ARE BULLSHIT + THE SHOW(S) IS(ARE) FILLED WITH LOOPHOLES AND INCONSISTENCIES. Literally. Trying to blame DBS for going crazy with them while pretending Z (heck, even the OG DB) did everything rigth is beyond laughable. Trying to justify all the dumb shit that happens in Z as a positive or as "logical" and then turn around and call out the dumb shit in Super is just hypocritical.

You're upholding a show that literally said "fuck it" after the Freeza saga in regards to power levels. The gains started to become exponential and not related to the lenght of time taken to train or even how one trained. Hell, Gohan got his potential unlocked twice in the show and it was all for nothing in the exact same sagas it happened. The series is full of massive powerups literally from nothing because it serves the plot. Like every other show.

There is not amount of logic to explain how power boosts work in Z. Case in point: Goku made more progress training on his own at x100 gravity than a full year with King Kai. Gohan made more progress in one year with Goku than in three years with Piccolo AND Goku. Vegeta made less progress than Goku during the Namek saga, despite all the Zenkai boosts, than Goku made during his trip to Namek. Vegeta then made more progress on his own, in space, than with Zenkai boosts and fighting powerful foes. Goten and Trunks are SSJ from day 1. They're stronger as kids than the character that has been branded with the most potential of all (Gohan) all while neither facing any real adversity or heavy combat, just basic training.

There are NO rules. There is NO logic.
The power boosts happened when the story wanted them to happen and only then did it try to explain, if at all. We never learned, for example, what kind of training Goku did to reach SSJ3 (remember, he couldn't even go SSJ2 when he died) or how he achieved it. He just gets it. We never know how the Androids were so strong from the get go, despite their creator not knowing about any similar power level before creating them.

Your argument is that Androids were just that strong naturally, by creation. Cool. Then what's the problem with Kale, Cauli or literally anyone else being as strong as they are from the get go? What's different? What makes one better and one worse? What is so unbeliable in Freeza training and getting as strong as he did (with severe limitations to the form as well)? If Buu bothered to train seriously he'd likely get ridiculously more powerful than anyone else in the series since his base was ridiculous from the get go (which, again, in this instance doesn't seem to bother you one bit).

What exactly is wrong with a character, whom the show declared a genius, having a strong base power and learning how to use her Ki in such a way that she can achieve multiple forms? Vegeta learned how to use God Ki on his own all while being much weaker than Goku and not having access to the SSG ritual either.

I'm sorry dude, we know your hate boner for this show is Super (ha) strong, but pointing out Z and it's power boosts as a counter example is just dumb.
 
I thought the episode had a very strong storyboard and choreography, but the production didn't do them justice most of the time.

Overall, I feel this was the strongest episode in the tournament so far. It felt dense with lots of stuff happening, it had 0 reused animation, it got an amazing cut with Kale wiping the floor with Goku, and the interactions between Goku and Cauli were a delight to watch. They work so well together.

I'm glad that the next episode seems to continue focusing on Cauli and Kale, but with better production this time around. So far they are my favorite new characters in the arc, and I'm curious to see what they will do with Kale when she stops being Broly.
 

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I dunno how you can argue that there's no sense of danger in an arc whose premise is literally "win or your universe is erased; also Freeza is going to screw everyone over at the first opportunity."

I will say that Z's more dramatic moments had better atmosphere on average. The five minutes of Namek are still my favorite stretch of episodes in the whole series despite their padding, almost entirely because of how the planet starkly decayed up until the last moments.
 
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