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Dragon Quest VIII is a suckfest

7Th said:
It's not only the variety, which was actually focused on the effects each spell had in the actual battle rather that in their attribute or category, but level of control you had over these abilities.
But the control made the game easier. In DQ8, the skills you learned were based on skill point allocation. It was something that you had to deal with for a long period of time.

In Nocturne, you could freely switch between magatama with hardly very little long term consequences. You only had to keep in mind the magatama weaknesses and maybe which skills of yours to replace.

The difference between Noctrune and DQ8 is that in DQ8, you miss the higher order skills for being too varied with your skill points, whilst in Nocturne... you don't really miss anything... at least, not anything that can be made up by the other demons in your party...

More or less, im trying to say taht Nocturne's amount of customization isn't really 100% the best since you have TOO much control.

The true show of strategy is when you deal with situations outside of your complete control.
 
I do realize that there's a group that can tell you why each and every JRPG on the PS2 sucks, but Dragon Quest 8 is so straightforward.

Its characters don't express emotions like they're from another planet.

Its battle system isn't needlessly complicated, with overly nuanced things your average player won't experience during their journey.

It's like the best ham and cheese sandwich you've ever eaten. Sure it's a ham and cheese sandwich, but damn it's good.
 
zoku88 said:
But the control made the game easier. In DQ8, the skills you learned were based on skill point allocation. It was something that you had to deal with for a long period of time.

In Nocturne, you could freely switch between magatama with hardly very little long term consequences. You only had to keep in mind the magatama weaknesses and maybe which skills of yours to replace.

The difference between Noctrune and DQ8 is that in DQ8, you miss the higher order skills for being too varied with your skill points, whilst in Nocturne... you don't really miss anything... at least, not anything that can be made up by the other demons in your party...

Yeah... no. The skills you can miss in Nocture are actually game-breaking if you aim for the True Demon ending.
 
7Th said:
Yeah... no. The skills you can miss in Nocture are actually game-breaking if you aim for the True Demon ending.
Which isn't required... so it's not really game breaking, is it?

And that's poor design... anyway...
 
7Th said:
Yeah... no. The skills you can miss in Nocture are actually game-breaking if you aim for the True Demon ending.


2016_v.gif


Your avatar is dirty :lol
 
Regulus Tera said:
Simon would beg to disagree.

I mean, as in it's obvious she would make a mess with her cooking... probably getting the icing on her face when working on a cake.
 
No Means Nomad said:
I wish more modern Japanese games had the same localization treatment DQ8 got.
Yea, orchestrated OST was nice.

And they didn't even get rid of party talk like they did in IV >:(
 
GhaleonQ said:
Erdrick, I cut much of that, yet it remains inarticulate.

1. Even if the means by which the player advances the story weren't ultra-reductive, Dragon Quest has still historically innovated with its storytelling techniques. IV, V, and VII did neat, new things, plot-wise. VIII couldn't even pull together an intriguing tale with its well-worn techniques.

2. I played through every sidequest and I can't recall 1 NPC outside of the villains. I also don't recall this being the series' strength.

3. Not everyone thinks that Dragon Quest's music is stellar. (I won't comment on the art, since this iteration pleased those who like it generally.)

4. In, say, Skies Of Arcadia, the player could interact with the grand world the creators had made. Nothing comes to mind with Dragon Quest VIII.

None of what you mentioned is new or the best in its genre. Dragon Quest VIII remains 1 of 2 games that I've ever returned (I'm 21.)

Some don't like the game and others love it. I'm in the camp that adores it. That's just how it is, I guess.
 
I got this recently... for some reason since I got a PS2 earlier this year this game was on my list of games to try, and when I found it and a few other games last week at a store that sells loose (that is, disc only) PS2 games for $2 (the ones with cases are $7 or so...), I bought it. Whether I liked it or not, at $2 it was obviously worth getting, even though JRPGs definitely aren't one of my favorite genres...

On the one hand I had heard it partially compared (in its uplifting tone, humorous elements, and exploration) to Skies of Arcadia, which is of course my favorite JRPG, but on the other hand it's very traditional, and having to fight constant random battles while I wander around lost is something that bores me very quickly and causes me to stop playing games. Getting to a boss and then being told "You're too low level, go back and run in circles for an hour and then return" does that too... witness why I have not gotten very far in Secret of Mana -- an Action-RPG I know, but for the 'grind' argument, the perfect case. Virtually every time I get to a boss, I get slaughtered and get game over and have to do it all over again, but this time I have to run around killing the enemies in that area for a long time before I can challenge the boss. Needless to say, this is absolutely no fun at all and it didn't take all that long for me to stop playing the game. Meanwhile, I played, finished, and absolutely loved Illusion of Gaia, a game which does none of that.

Anyway, DQVIII. Well, I think I'm at about 10 hours now (at the abandoned underground monastery dungeon). So yeah, for whatever reasons, I'm having fun... it's pretty good, really. The graphics, music, and voice acting are all fantastic, first, and definitely help the game and make it fun to play. The story's good so far, nothing overly complex, but it doesn't need to be. What I've seen so far has largely been interesting and fun, enough to make me keep going and be entertained. As my liking Skies of Arcadia, Lunar, and Grandia might indicate, I don't necessarily like RPGs to have depressing, convoluted plots full of too much pointless tragedy and the like...

As for the combat, it is extremely traditional, that's for sure. Really, beyond the annoyingly long load times before and after battles, the main thing I'd complain about is turn order... that is, it's really, really frustrating to, say, try to heal someone near death, but then have it be up to random chance as to whether your character lives (your person goes first) or dies (if a monster goes first and kills them). A simple turn order indicator like some RPGs have would have made a big difference, for sure.

Other than that, I think it'd have been better off with an automap you uncover as you explore, instead of the somewhat odd maps you get that reveal entire areas, but leave you blind until you find them. It would be more fun and more satisfying if the map simply was revealed as you explored... it'd give you a great reason to explore, too. As it is "find the chests" seems to be the main one, but for me at least "reveal the map" would probably be an even better reason to explore. :)

Anyway, it's kind of odd. It looks modern and has some of the best graphics I've seen on the PS2, but plays like a mid '80s game gameplay-wise. That means very, very simple core gameplay. That's surely part of why I played it so much in just a short time, in fact -- it's easy and relatively effortless to play (I don't mean "it's an easy game challenge-wise", because it's not, but even when it's harder, it requires little real effort beyond "go get a few more levels and then come back." That's what I mean. Sure there is strategy, but compared to the games I'm comparing it to here?). It requires almost none of the skill and strategy that I'd have to use to play Baldur's Gate or Neverwinter Nights 2, two RPGs I've been playing off and on for over a year now... in my opinion those two games are clearly far better than DQVIII, but because they take all that effort and thought to play, it's a very different kind of experience from a JRPG, where you spend most of the time listening to story without having to make any real decisions like the moral choices in a modern PC RPG or going through simple (whether or not they are hard, they are simple) battles. PC RPGs used to be a lot more like that back in the '80s, but they have changed while many JRPGs haven't... and DQ here is one of the ones that has changed least, but at least they did add elements like the map. I don't mean that as an insult really though -- older PC RPGs aren't bad games, by any stretch of the imagination. But Baldur's Gate is the game that really got me into the RPG genre, unless you count Quest for Glory... going from that to JRPGs, it took me a long time to not dislike them for their relative simplicity and lack of strategy, moral choices, more extensive NPC interaction, etc. Skies of Arcadia was probably the first JRPG I loved... but anyway, despite those caveats, DQVIII is a pretty fun game. I just wish JRPGs would find a way to cut back on the grind (I HATE GRIND!) and endless string of simplistic, repetitive battles and replace them with something that's more meaningful. For me at least, even a simple positional system (such as Lunar 1 and 2 (SCD/Saturn/PSX vers) or Grandia or FFXII or Skies of Arcadia) goes a long way. DQVIII does at least have a slight positional/grouping element with which enemies you can attack... being able to attack all enemies of one type in a hit, for instance. That's nice, but even more would be better.

So yeah, it reminds me a lot of Grandia, a game I started playing sometime last year. Every so often I go back and play a bit of it, really like it, and then slowly start to get bored again as the simplistic, often thought-free (apart from bosses) combat and great length of the game sink in again...

Seriously, if more of the fights in these games required the thought and strategy of the boss fights (assuming that you're at the perfect level to be challenged, but not overlevelled), they'd be a lot more engaging really... but like with Grandia II or most of these games, it's like "okay, that was fun, I beat the boss, back to the same old "mash the 'Attack' button repeatedly for a long time until I reach the next one... :("

Oh, as for FFVI, I only tried to play it once, but quit three or four hours in out of boredom. The only FF games I've gotten farther than that in are the two I have for PS2, FFX-2 and FFXII... XII is pretty good (an interesting fusion of traditional JRPG and MMO stuff...), X-2 okay. I haven't played a DQ game for more than a very short amount of time before.
 
Being among those who finds himself bored with Pokemon, I can actually understand people finding DQ games dull from a combat standpoint.
 
cartman414 said:
Being among those who finds himself bored with Pokemon, I can actually understand people finding DQ games dull from a combat standpoint.
TBH, I don't think they're alike. Pokemon is the epitome of slow combat.

While (most) DQ games are the epitome of fast combat.

Unless, you don't like Pokemon because it simple and not because it is dreadfully slow.
 
zoku88 said:
TBH, I don't think they're alike. Pokemon is the epitome of slow combat.

While (most) DQ games are the epitome of fast combat.

Unless, you don't like Pokemon because it simple and not because it is dreadfully slow.

Well, that. Though people have said that Pokemon only recently became slow.

The other factor aside from the decidedly bare-bones setup is that it's practically 80% grinding. At least with the best DQ entries you have interesting storyline setups (i. e. 4's multiple chapters, 5's multiple generations, and 7's own unique spin on time travel) that shake things up.
 
cartman414 said:
Well, that. Though people have said that Pokemon only recently became slow.

The other factor aside from the decidedly bare-bones setup is that it's practically 80% grinding. At least with the best DQ entries you have interesting storyline setups (i. e. 4's multiple chapters, 5's multiple generations, and 7's own unique spin on time travel) that shake things up.
I agree with the basic part.

But I really can't agree with the grinding. I mean, I don't really grind in either game (although, i almost never finish pokemon games since i get bored of them,) but DQ doesn't really need grinding, at least for me.

I haven't played any old ones lately, but I didn't really notice that much difference in the new ones. It just the way they display messages.

Bulbasaur uses x attack

Next page-

Deals y damage

Next page-

It's not very effective...


And then you get stuff like making sandstorms and what not :-/

Im not sure what's up actually,. Like, DQ seems to display a lot of messages like that, too, but its usually, really fast.
 
My initial impressions of the game were great. I loved the visuals, the art, I loved the huge world map, and even the old school battle system to some extent. But as the game progressed I really stopped caring about everything...the world was way too big (especially considering it felt like I was traversing the exact same scenery for hours on end), the quests were way too tedious and drawn out, and the random battles were so frequent I began to dread moving my character even a few steps on the world map.

So yeah, never finished :lol
 
OP is insane.

DQVIII is one of my favirte RPGs of all times, and I'm a veteran. The characters, the music, the simple story all tie together to make an atmosphere and world that fits just right.

And you can automate the battles if they are a grind for you, but I don't see what's wrong with simple, turn based gameplay. I guess mashing buttons while having no clue as to what your NPC teamates are doing offscreen while they use up all their most powerful magic on level 1 enemies is the big hotness right now.

30 hours in...with any other RPG I'd say stick it out to the end, but with this game, I'd say you have about 30 more hours to go. If you hate it, quit.

But you're still insane.
 
Dragon Quest VIII has the most peaceful, inviting atmosphere and characters of any game that I've ever played. And the music, wow. It's one of my favorite winter games to just curl up and play with a cup of hot chocolate. :P

I wish VII could get a new translation, I'm playing through it right now. Good stuff.
 
DQ8 is one of my favorites in the series, maybe number 2 or 3. It`s definitely the most accessible DQ game overall (sans the US version`s technical issues, I`ve only played the JP version though) for new fans so if you don`t like it, it`s a bit harder to recommend the others.
 
Pojo said:
Dragon Quest VIII has the most peaceful, inviting atmosphere and characters of any game that I've ever played. And the music, wow. It's one of my favorite winter games to just curl up and play with a cup of hot chocolate. :P

Agreed.
 
Shouta said:
DQ8 is one of my favorites in the series, maybe number 2 or 3. It`s definitely the most accessible DQ game overall (sans the US version`s technical issues, I`ve only played the JP version though) for new fans so if you don`t like it, it`s a bit harder to recommend the others.
I think it depends. If they hate the battles, then they might like the other ones.

If they just hate how the game is set up, then they prolly wouldn't...
 
Shouta said:
DQ8 is one of my favorites in the series, maybe number 2 or 3. It`s definitely the most accessible DQ game overall (sans the US version`s technical issues, I`ve only played the JP version though) for new fans so if you don`t like it, it`s a bit harder to recommend the others.

I just didn't like the slow combat. Tell me the others are much faster and I will play them for sure.
 
Kyoufu said:
I just didn't like the slow combat. Tell me the others are much faster and I will play them for sure.
Play DQIV DS if you have a DS.

You'll think its one of the fastest RPGs in your recent memory.
 
Shouta said:
DQ8 is one of my favorites in the series, maybe number 2 or 3. It`s definitely the most accessible DQ game overall (sans the US version`s technical issues, I`ve only played the JP version though) for new fans so if you don`t like it, it`s a bit harder to recommend the others.

I really really reeeaaaally disagree. People might be drawn in by the graphics and the overworld, but as soon as they start playing, all the layers will fall away, as evidenced by the thread.

The game is wonderful, but battles can be really slow sometimes. I would honestly say the older ones are far more accessible, and would even suggest that the DS releases so far have been incredible because they're so lightning fast.

(Also DQV's story is beautiful, heartwarming/wrenching, and fucking EPIC. DQVIII's story is good but just doesn't compete with V's.)
 
i liked DQ8 and finished it, but the loading in battles on certain skills almost ruined the whole experience for me.

i got angry so many times over that unnecessary flaw. today i wouldnt recommend it without an HDD.
 
thetrin said:
I really really reeeaaaally disagree. People might be drawn in by the graphics and the overworld, but as soon as they start playing, all the layers will fall away, as evidenced by the thread.

The game is wonderful, but battles can be really slow sometimes. I would honestly say the older ones are far more accessible, and would even suggest that the DS releases so far have been incredible because they're so lightning fast.

(Also DQV's story is beautiful, heartwarming/wrenching, and fucking EPIC. DQVIII's story is good but just doesn't compete with V's.)

My comment is a bit lopsided though as I only played the JP version of DQ8, which is incredibly fast considering all the graphics.

But I don`t agree with the older ones being more accessible, there`s just not quite the hook there for the average player like DQ8 has. That`s purely presentation though. I also love the story (maybe my favorite), it`s not an incredibly interesting scenario but the progression and the elements tied into it are some of the best in the series to me.
 
thetrin said:
(Also DQV's story is beautiful, heartwarming/wrenching, and fucking EPIC. DQVIII's story is good but just doesn't compete with V's.)
Good to hear. Can't wait to play it in two month's time.
 
DQ8 was my first DQ. It made me a believer. Actually its the game that got me back into jrpgs, since then I played EO, TWIWY, DQ4 and now playing again Chrono Trigger.

So no it seriously ain't a suckfest, it's a great jrpg that managed to do all the important stuff right.
 
I died in the first dungeon and stopped right there :lol Great graphics and all but the game felt really boring. I'll start playing it again someday.
 
I'm really intrigued by Dragon Quest IV now. Should I play the DS version or the NES?

Also how close is the DS version toward the original. Is it a "remake" as in say Final Fantasy I on the PSP (pretending that no content got deleted) or a "remake" like Twin Snakes as just improving graphics and redoing some of the scenes? Or a "remake" only by plot and name?
 
Flying_Phoenix said:
I'm really intrigued by Dragon Quest IV now. Should I play the DS version or the NES?

Also how close is the DS version toward the original. Is it a "remake" as in say Final Fantasy I on the PSP (pretending that no content got deleted) or a "remake" like Twin Snakes as just improving graphics and redoing some of the scenes? Or a "remake" only by plot and name?
It's pretty different from the NES version. Not just for the presentation enhancements, but some actual good new content, too.
 
I haven't played it yet but I expect to like it a lot, since I've enjoyed 1, 2, 5, and 6.

PantherLotus said:
I think you probably just had to have played any Dragon Quest game ever to be able to understand this one's appeal. I think some people are right; this doesn't compare to other modern RPGs in terms of character-development and deep, engrossing plot-lines, but if it isn't a beautiful, fully-realized world that delivers on the imaginations of 20-year fanboys, I don't know what is.

DQVII was a far better game, IMO, but DQVIII is far from a suckfest. It probably just looked good enough to finally get the attention of the unwashed American filth that never bothered before now. ie, this thread.

Bluntly, this. You'd have to be older than 18 to get it.

PantherLotus I've been meaning to ask you this but who is the chick in your avatar and is there a youtube link to the video of that gif?
 
Yeah, DQ8 isn't one of the best DQ games, but it's still fall from terrible if you're looking for a good RPG.
If you're looking for a story to wank to, well, more power to you. Perhaps there is some television that you can look to? I've been watching Nodame Cantabile recently. I would recommend that.
 
Segata Sanshiro said:
It's pretty different from the NES version. Not just for the presentation enhancements, but some actual good new content, too.

Could you please try to explain how "different" it is without spoiling any part of the game? (I know that sounds weird and hard)
 
Flying_Phoenix said:
Could you please try to explain how "different" it is without spoiling any part of the game? (I know that sounds weird and hard)
It's difficult. Post-endgame content that's actually meaningful in a story sense and not tacked on? The other thing too is that in the NES version, your teammates were AI controlled and you couldn't change that. In the DS version, you give them commands like a regular party.
 
I loved VIII. IV not so much (I doubt I'll ever finish it)

The moment the world loses your interest and the difficulty vanishes, it's toss time for these kind of games. VIII somehow managed to keep me entertained to the end and my hat's off to it.
 
zoku88 said:
I agree with the basic part.

But I really can't agree with the grinding. I mean, I don't really grind in either game (although, i almost never finish pokemon games since i get bored of them,) but DQ doesn't really need grinding, at least for me.

I haven't played any old ones lately, but I didn't really notice that much difference in the new ones. It just the way they display messages.

Bulbasaur uses x attack

Next page-

Deals y damage

Next page-

It's not very effective...


And then you get stuff like making sandstorms and what not :-/

Im not sure what's up actually,. Like, DQ seems to display a lot of messages like that, too, but its usually, really fast.

Ahhh, totally forgot about all that noise. Pokemon seemed to be more of a perpetual crawl when it had to do with that. And Lordy help you if you encounter a HARDEN happy wild Pokemon that just won't go down.

I think it has to do with the animation that comes before each and every message.

And the grinding part is in order to evolve various Pokemon and have them learn moves. (Not to mention get them to level 100 for multiplayer battle if you're part of that scene.)
 
I wrote a post years ago regarding why I loved DQVIII so much, when I was just starting it:

Just the quick impressions after maybe 18 hours in (man and here I thought I was actually going to get things done this weekend) -

  1. Like 10 minutes in I was like Holy Shit I died? This is an RPG you're not supposed to die. And on top of that there's no Phoenix Downs? It turns out RPGs are actually sort of more fun when you actually have to think about what you are doing. Who knew?
  2. Whoever designed the monsters in this game should be commended. I mean just as a for instance, I got killed like 3 times in a row by fucking Yabbies. (I think that's right - the lobster-lookin' guys?) I knew full well they were too tough to beat at my level, I just wanted to wipe the fucking smile off their bastard faces. Once I get to the end-game, I am going to go back to that beach and nuke the ever-loving shit out of lobster after grinning shitfucker lobster, just because I can.
    For someone to get me that involved in the random battles purely through visceral reaction to the expressiveness of the opponents, well, all I can say is that is the mark of true craftsmanship, right there.
  3. The whole thing actually feels like a world, in a way I haven't really seen since, shit... Ocarina of Time? Moreso than that, it's that your experience of that world isn't constrained to whichever path your quest demands. It's not what you get from a lot of games, where they come up with the quests and slap down the bare minimum of world around it, it feels like they came up with a world, and then wove your story into it.
    The openness of it is almost offensive, like the gamemakers are taunting you or something. "Hey are you sure you want to just head on to the next town like that, goin' along, following that plain ol' road there? Maybe you should dick around in this big-ass field for the next hour and a half - maybe you could find big fancy secret treasure up there! Or maybe you could find jack shit. Maybe you could find jack shit because you were supposed to spend an hour and a half dicking around in the forest right next to you. Maybe you just fucked, Yankee pig!"
  4. Of course the above would just be shitty and grindingly oppressive, save for the simple, sensible gameplay mechanisms they introduce to make the whole thing managable. Like the Chimera wings / Zoom spells - it's not like if you figure out you missed something cool back at the beginning of the game, well guess what you missed it now it's at the ass-end of the world oh yeah and thanks to our arbitrary bullshit plot device you can't go back there anyway ha ha FUCK YOU! Instead it's like, you figure out you missed something - BAMF! - you just zip the fuck back and go get it, and continue on your merry way.
    The onscreen compass just strikes me as one of those things where everyone else who makes videogames should be slapping themselves in the head and going "Fuck me, that was simple. Why didn't we just do that?" And on top of that, a simple, clear World Map that loads in about half a second? It's almost like they want you to be able to figure out where the goddamn hell you're going!
  5. The characters are all likable and believably fleshed-out, and to the credit of the actors involved the voices actually add to this - this may be the first game I've ever played where that element actually adds substantive depth to the characters. I mean 'Emmer' was just so goddamn sad and earnest, how can you not let that get to you? It's not just the voices either, all the little bits of mannerism and attitude and detail actually come together to form a personality in a way you just don't see in most games. I mean I just got through Pickham and damned if Yangus didn't have three whole dimensions worth of character by the time I was done. Even the side characters, like Red or Emmer, have a depth to them that makes the whole thing feel so much more real - as with the world, it feels less like they've breathed life into a group of characters and then wrapped the story around them, instead of just a collection of cyphers who only exist to serve the purposes of the storyboard.

So in conclusion, as if it were not bad enough that I actually paid real money for Squeenix product, the goddamn thing actually turns out to be enjoyable?
 
Whoever designed the monsters in this game should be commended. I mean just as a for instance, I got killed like 3 times in a row by fucking Yabbies. (I think that's right - the lobster-lookin' guys?) I knew full well they were too tough to beat at my level, I just wanted to wipe the fucking smile off their bastard faces. Once I get to the end-game, I am going to go back to that beach and nuke the ever-loving shit out of lobster after grinning shitfucker lobster, just because I can.

For someone to get me that involved in the random battles purely through visceral reaction to the expresssiveness of the opponents, well, all I can say is that is the mark of true craftsmanship, right there.

Nice, my thoughts almost excatly. You really can't overestimate the effect Toriyamas designs do to these games. I for one, wouldn't even look at the direction of this series, if the monsters were your typical generic animals and dragons from your typical generic JRPG.
 
Bowflex said:
After hearing numerous GAFers go on about this being a must-play PS2 title....I picked this up a few weeks back and so far am about 30 hours in. [...]
It starts picking up after the 40th hour.
 
DQVIII is one of the best rpg's of recent years imo. I can see what would put people off though, but pretty much everything negative said about the game is a positive in my book.
 
I've never played DQ8, so I don't even belong here!
Durante said:
Planescape: Torment is the worst game ever.
:\
Durante said:
That's a really cheap way to deflect criticism from DQ8. My favourite PS2 JRPG is probably BoF:DQ -- the difference between the challenge it offers and the one offered by DQ8 is that the former is strategical and cerebral, while the latter is mostly one of stamina.
Hmm, that's precisely why there are some JRPGs that I don't enjoy so much nowadays. Lost Odyssey falls in the category of stamina (despite fewer random encounters, it made up for it by how long the battles took while still not being engaging), as does - sadly, as I really wanted to like it - DQ4 (which has really fast battles - I just didn't find them engaging at all, either - save for ONE boss battle
Marquis of Leon or something
).

Maybe my tastes are changing as I grow older and have less patience. Repetition is the foundation of games in general, but I'm finding myself less tolerant of it (or more so if the actual gameplay or tasks are compelling).

I like JRPG battle systems that have something unique to them, or at least invoke of good sense of tactics required. The problem I had with DQ4 wasn't that it had frequent battle systems in an of itself, or that the system itself was very traditional, it was that most every battle consisted of having to use the same moveset in order to progress (attack, buff or debuff, heal or item). While not grinding brought some more challenge to it, I just found it too limiting. Maybe that's why I really enjoy SRPGs, where I can have fewer but more properly designed battles that take longer but require more tactics, rather than fighting a few battles that all mostly consist of the same enemy (or a minor mixture of) in each area.

Perhaps I'm just being biased, because I'm currently quite enjoying FF4DS. Then again, I grew up on SNES FF and not on DQ. It must be some 'whole package' deal. I just don't think DQ is for me :(
 
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