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[Celine]

That said, random encounters vs visible encounters can be considered a major change and not necessarily for the better depending on what you prefer. If you're the type that vastly prefers random then that alone would be reason to go with the PS2 version.

That's a strange argument.
Visible enemies on map give the players information on what random enemies popped up around and give him the choice to what enemy to battle or avoid if the area is large enough.
If you want to tackle the game as it had random encounters then you can simply bump the enemy nearest to you.
Visible encounters are an expansion of the random encounters which give the player more choices.
The only way visible encounters could be considered a downside compared to random encounters is when a (common) enemy is stuck in a close passage you need to take so you are force to do that battle.
It's not a casualty the series abandoned random encounters after DQVIII on PS2 (2004).

 

[MoonFrog]

I'd say 3DS. Faster battles, enemies on the map, you can see what you are investing in wrt skill points, etc.

 

[The n00b Avenger]

If you want to tackle the game as it had random encounters then you can simply bump the enemy nearest to you.

Random encounter rates are things that have special attention paid to them in order to properly balance the game and that wouldn't be reproduced properly by just running into every enemy you see, so not really. DQ7 is actually a pretty good example of how they really screwed that aspect up since the balance is all messed up in the 3DS remake compared to the original.

Also there tends to be a pretty significant difference in the mindset of a player when it comes to how they tackle game-induced challenge(these are battles I can't avoid) vs player-induced challenge(I can avoid these battles if I want, but maybe I shouldn't to challenge myself). Give a player the option to make things easier for themselves and the vast majority will take that option, even if they're the type that actually likes a challenge. It's normal to expect someone to pick hard mode, but it's a lot less normal to expect them to also purposely handicap themselves while playing the game for the option of challenge.

I mean yeah on the surface it looks like you're just offering more options and 'more options must mean it's a good thing', but it's not actually that simple when you really get down to it.

 

[fester]

Random encounter rates are things that have special attention paid to them in order to properly balance the game and that wouldn't be reproduced properly by just running into every enemy you see, so no.

"Properly balanced" random encounters in jrpgs? Have I been playing the same genre for the last 30 years?

 

[muteki]

The merits of the 3DS version don't make up for the changes for me personally. Being widely available and portable though goes a long way.

 

[dan2026]

In the 3DS version is basically possible to avoid 95% of the enemy encounters.
You can walk right by most of them and they won't chase you.

I'm not sure if this is a good thing or not.

 

[jett]

Wait a second, the Japanese version of DQ83DS has a newly recorded, orchestrated soundtrack? And this isn't in the US version because?

 

[preta]

Wait a second, the Japanese version of DQ83DS has a newly recorded, orchestrated soundtrack? And this isn't in the US version because?

Because Sugiyama is a dick, basically. This was on him.

At least there's a mod to reinsert it into the US and EU versions if you have CFW.

 

[Magicpaint]

Wait a second, the Japanese version of DQ83DS has a newly recorded, orchestrated soundtrack? And this isn't in the US version because?

Because Sugiyama.

It's a shame as the new recording is fantastic and much better than what we got on PS2.

 

[jett]

Because Sugiyama is a dick, basically. This was on him.

At least there's a mod to reinsert it into the US and EU versions if you have CFW.

I can't even begin to understand why would Sugiyama prevent the US version from having an orchestrated soundtrack. He obviously didn't mind with DQ8.

 

[The n00b Avenger]

I can't even begin to understand why would Sugiyama prevent the US version from having an orchestrated soundtrack. He obviously didn't mind with DQ8.

It's probably a recent thing and why 11 doesn't have orchestra either(so it's not like he's trying to screw over the west specifically)

 

[Alex_Mexico]

I keep reading QoL improvements this and QoL that but no one seems to name what are these newfangled improvements exactly. What did they add?

 

[killatopak]

I keep reading QoL improvements this and QoL that but no one seems to name what are these newfangled improvements exactly. What did they add?

Maybe take time to read the thread and not skim it? It's 29 posts above yours.

edit: You know what here. This should be most of QoL. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=245529705&postcount=133

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Wait a second, the Japanese version of DQ83DS has a newly recorded, orchestrated soundtrack? And this isn't in the US version because?

That's a very shitty move! Until now I thought all versions of DQ8 on 3DS had the Japanese PS2 soundtrack!

 

[JoeyJungle]

Is the mobile version a straight up port of the PS2 version? Does it have any of the 3DS features?

Spoiler

did they ever fix the ~25fps lock?

 

[killatopak]

Is the mobile version a straight up port of the PS2 version? Does it have any of the 3DS features?

Spoiler

did they ever fix the ~25fps lock?

From what I've played, it stuck on vertical orientation, has no voice nor orchestral music but has instant alchemy pot. I can't remember exactly but it's pretty bare bones.

 

[Grief.exe]

Wait a second, the Japanese version of DQ83DS has a newly recorded, orchestrated soundtrack? And this isn't in the US version because?

Because Sugiyama is a dick, basically. This was on him.

At least there's a mod to reinsert it into the US and EU versions if you have CFW.

Because Sugiyama.

It's a shame as the new recording is fantastic and much better than what we got on PS2.

WHAT?

 

[Magicpaint]

I keep reading QoL improvements this and QoL that but no one seems to name what are these newfangled improvements exactly. What did they add?

Okay let me elaborate on a few stuff:

1. The world map is always accessible. So you don't have to pause to look at it when exploring. It makes exploring the map a lot more fun. Same with dungeons.
2. No random battles. Again it makes exploring the huge world more fun.
3. Shortcuts for Alchemy pot, Godbird stone, Sabrecat etc on the bottom touchscreen so you don't have to fiddle with the menu constantly.
4. Speaking of Alchemy pot. It is hugely improved. It is instant. No more vague recipes, and the game let's you encourage with experimentation because it highlights valid combinations and greys out invalid ones as you pick ingredients.
5. You can see the skill point distribution ahead of time so you can plan better how to use them and you can also store them instead of being forced to use them as you level up. These aren't possible on PS2.
6. Much faster battles.

I might be missing some more but these add up for a more streamlined, pleasant gaming experience.

 

[sensui-tomo]

WHAT?

I know this is a bad thing to say, but if he died the world would actually be a better place.

"In 2007, the United States House of Representatives passed House Resolution 121, seeking an official apology from the Government of Japan regarding so-called "comfort women", women who were used as sexual slaves by Japanese soldiers during World War II. Sugiyama was opposed to this resolution, stating that he believed the evidence surrounding the Nanking Massacre and comfort women was selective in nature. His first attempt at publishing his opposition (a full-page letter titled "The Facts") was initially rejected by the Washington Post and New York Times. However, the Washington Post would eventually agree to publish it"
and a great kotaku article http://kotaku.com/5901590/the-sad-s...legend-who-pretends-war-crimes-never-happened
He puts money into trying to hide the fact Japan fucked up in Nanking during WW2... the equivalent idea of this would be like me spending money to try to cover up nazi stuff and deny what they did .

He can make good music but damn is he a shit stain of a human.

 

[OmegaDL50]

The definitive version.

The definitive version is probably 3DS with Orchestra soundtrack patched back in, but that requires homebrew.

So I say play both and find enjoyment in what each version offers?

 

[blackjon24]

Is the mobile version a straight up port of the PS2 version? Does it have any of the 3DS features?

Spoiler

did they ever fix the ~25fps lock?

Nope the 25 lock was never fixed it plays the same now on my iPhone 6s than it did when i first played it on iPhone 5c. Easily the worst dragon quest port on mobile all the other ones are excellent.

I still played this version all the way through the 25fps lock means the game doesn't drain your battery life as fast and portrait mode allows you to play it one hand, so i used to play it while watching a tv show or on the train

 

[Magicpaint]

The definitive version is probably 3DS with Orchestra soundtrack patched back in, but that requires homebrew.

So I say play both and find enjoyment in what each version offers?

This is my recommendation. Both are valid versions and have something unique to offer. However avoid the mobile version because that one isn't very good.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

The music is the biggest non-issue that people love to argue over. Seriously. The 3DS version is fine. Even if we did get a Zodiac Age-style remaster of it we'd probably have non-orchestral music again because Sugiyama is a poop.

3DS version is the only way to go. It makes playing the game an enjoyable experience rather than something you have to trudge through to enjoy.

No higher resolution and marginally better OST is worth going through that again. It's 2017. Love yourself.

Why would you think that? He did add an orquestrated soundtrack to the JP 3DS version! Maybe not adding it to the western one was a space issue since English text takes more space than Japanese.

Unless Sugiyama has a vengeful bone to pick with the west for changing his beloved original soundtrack to orquestra on PS2 why would he go out of his way to keep refusing a better orquestrated version of his soundtrack for the putative Zodiac Age style Remaster on PS4?

 

[sensui-tomo]

Why would you think that? He did add an orquestrated soundtrack to the JP 3DS version! Maybe not adding it to the western one was a space issue since English text takes more space than Japanese.

Unless Sugiyama has a vengeful bone to pick with the west for changing his beloved original soundtrack to orquestra on PS2 why would he go out of his way to keep refusing a better orquestrated version of his soundtrack for the putative Zodiac Age style Remaster on PS4?

they did the same thing to DQ7, i'm pretty sure its something to do with Sugiyama

 

[Alex_Mexico]

they did the same thing to DQ7, i'm pretty sure its something to do with Sugiyama

But why? Maybe it's a cartridge space thing? DQ games have a shit ton of text and English (plus all the other localized languages) take substantially more space than Japanese and sticking to midi music was the way to go.

I'd like to think this was the reason because otherwise there's no good excuse for this shitty move. Seems almost vengeful!

 

[Celine]

Random encounter rates are things that have special attention paid to them in order to properly balance the game and that wouldn't be reproduced properly by just running into every enemy you see, so not really. DQ7 is actually a pretty good example of how they really screwed that aspect up since the balance is all messed up in the 3DS remake compared to the original.

Also there tends to be a pretty significant difference in the mindset of a player when it comes to how they tackle game-induced challenge(these are battles I can't avoid) vs player-induced challenge(I can avoid these battles if I want, but maybe I shouldn't to challenge myself). Give a player the option to make things easier for themselves and the vast majority will take that option, even if they're the type that actually likes a challenge. It's normal to expect someone to pick hard mode, but it's a lot less normal to expect them to also purposely handicap themselves while playing the game for the option of challenge.

I mean yeah on the surface it looks like you're just offering more options and 'more options must mean it's a good thing', but it's not actually that simple when you really get down to it.

Err we are talking about a casual-friendly series like Dragon Quest which let you farm Metal Slime if you want to be overleveled.
Of course it's the choice of the player how strong he want to be, it's true for random encounters too.
I really don't see the difference, in fact all Dragon Quest games after VIII have visible encounters*.

EDIT:
And I really don't need to say what a huge pain it is random encounters for a game with an explorable real-scale overworld.

EDIT2:
* With the exception of DQXI throwback 2D mode <3

 

[The Boat]

I know this is a bad thing to say, but if he died the world would actually be a better place.

"In 2007, the United States House of Representatives passed House Resolution 121, seeking an official apology from the Government of Japan regarding so-called "comfort women", women who were used as sexual slaves by Japanese soldiers during World War II. Sugiyama was opposed to this resolution, stating that he believed the evidence surrounding the Nanking Massacre and comfort women was selective in nature. His first attempt at publishing his opposition (a full-page letter titled "The Facts") was initially rejected by the Washington Post and New York Times. However, the Washington Post would eventually agree to publish it"
and a great kotaku article http://kotaku.com/5901590/the-sad-s...legend-who-pretends-war-crimes-never-happened
He puts money into trying to hide the fact Japan fucked up in Nanking during WW2... the equivalent idea of this would be like me spending money to try to cover up nazi stuff and deny what they did .

He can make good music but damn is he a shit stain of a human.

What the shit...
I don't understand what this has to do with the OST though.

 

[epmode]

But why? Maybe it's a cartridge space thing? DQ games have a shit ton of text and English (plus all the other localized languages) take substantially more space than Japanese and sticking to midi music was the way to go.

Doesn't really work that way. The 3DS games don't synthesize music like old consoles did. The music files are essentially MP3s which is why it's so easy to swap the soundtracks with a modded 3DS. The music file sizes between the two regions are comparable.

 

[sensui-tomo]

a post i found on a thread about the changes which explain a bit possibly

" @MUWANdo mentioned a couple pages back that Sugiyama believes that MIDI should be used for games and orchestral should be reserved for CDs and live shows. Enix is probably more motivated to keep his opinions in a cage when it's Japanese Dragon Quest we're talking about. "

except doesnt explain why japan got better music over the west for 2 games.

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

What the shit...
I don't understand what this has to do with the OST though.

I'm pretty sure he got real protective of his music the last few years and won't let DQ games use orchestrated soundtracks anymore. Which is why DQ8 in America wasn't allowed to use it and why DQ11 doesn't have live orchestration at all. He's blocking square from using them.

 

[dan2026]

a post i found on a thread about the changes which explain a bit possibly

" @MUWANdo mentioned a couple pages back that Sugiyama believes that MIDI should be used for games and orchestral should be reserved for CDs and live shows. Enix is probably more motivated to keep his opinions in a cage when it's Japanese Dragon Quest we're talking about. "

except doesnt explain why japan got better music over the west for 2 games.

Why the fuck do they use this guy?

He seems like an awful liability for the company. They are letting some shit interfere with their games.
Get someone else for fuck sake!

Does he do the music for DQ11? The stuff everyone says is pretty bad.

 

[OmegaDL50]

Why would you think that? He did add an orquestrated soundtrack to the JP 3DS version! Maybe not adding it to the western one was a space issue since English text takes more space than Japanese.

It's most definitely not a space issue.

The Japanese 3DS version is 3.6 GB (roughly 28,800 blocks)

The US version with the Orchestrated music patched back in is 3.45GB

The fact the patched US version has the benefits of English text, VA work with the 3DS Orchestrated soundtrack and still be nearly 200MB smaller proves it wasn't ever a space issue preventing the orchestrated soundtrack being included.

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

Why the fuck do they use this guy?

He seems like an awful liability for the company. They are letting some shit interfere with their games.
Get someone else for fuck sake!

For what it's worth, dragon quest is so heavily banked on nostalgia. They purposely make design decisions to make it still feel like an old DQ quest and having the same character artist and music composer who did all the other games is a huge part in playing on that nostalgia and classic feel that makes Dragon Quest what it is.

 

[sensui-tomo]

Why the fuck do they use this guy?

He seems like an awful liability for the company. They are letting some shit interfere with their games.
Get someone else for fuck sake!

Does he do the music for DQ11? The stuff everyone says is pretty bad.

He unfortunately does do the music for DQ 11 and from what i've read, its mostly reused music and all still midi. Which is why people are hoping that the western release has orchestrated music (and voicing but thats something else all together) And they cant get rid of him because iirc he has the rights to the music or some bullshit like that.

 

[dan2026]

For what it's worth, dragon quest is so heavily banked on nostalgia. They purposely make design decisions to make it still feel like an old DQ quest and having the same character artist and music composer who did all the other games is a huge part in playing on that nostalgia and classic feel that makes Dragon Quest what it is.

Yeah but this guy is literally interfering with their business.

Any company with sense would of kicked this shithead to the curb ages ago.
The fact that they still want to be associated with a man with such toxic opinions is baffling enough.

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

Yeah but this guy is literally interfering with this business.

Any company with sense would of kicked this shithead to the curb ages ago.
The fact that they still want to be associated with a man with such toxic opinions is baffling enough.

As someone posted above, I don't think they have a choice. I think he has to be the guy for dragon quest and square can't go back on that. Probably some crazy contract clause which gives him power over all things DQ music.

 

[The Boat]

I'm pretty sure he got real protective of his music the last few years and won't let DQ games use orchestrated soundtracks anymore. Which is why DQ8 in America wasn't allowed to use it and why DQ11 doesn't have live orchestration at all. He's blocking square from using them.

What an ass. I mean, the midi versions of DQ8 and 7 for 3DS are great, but the orchestral versions are so damn beautiful!
I still remember being dumbfounded when I found out the Japanese version of DQ8 PS2 didn't have an orchestral soundtrack like the PAL version.

 

[entremet]

Yeah but this guy is literally interfering with their business.

Any company with sense would of kicked this shithead to the curb ages ago.
The fact that they still want to be associated with a man with such toxic opinions is baffling enough.

He owns his music so he has that power.

 

[dan2026]

He owns his music so he has that power.

Nostalgia be damned.

Dump the bigot, get new music.
You can't rely on nostalgia forever, people will get over it.
Dragon Quest is more than it's music.
Especially when it sounds like the music isn't that good anymore anyway.

 

[Copper]

The best version will be the Emulated 3ds version in HD with content restoration patches/ music. Sadly it doesn't exist yet.

 

[Celine]

I think Sugiyama has the copyright on the entire music of Dragon Quest (from I to XI).
Think for an instant what impact would have on the series if he decide to forbid SquareEnix the use of his music.

 

[entremet]

Nostalgia be damned.

Dump the bigot, get new music.
You can't rely on nostalgia forever, people will get over it.
Dragon Quest is more than it's music.
Especially when it sounds like the music isn't that good anymore anyway.

Well DQ is a series that trades heavily on tradition, hence his power.

 

[dan2026]

I think Sugiyama has the copyright on the entire music of Dragon Quest (from I to XI).
Think for an instant what impact would have on the series if he decide to forbid SquareEnix the use his music.

He is already forbidding them from using some of his music by the sounds of it.
The impact has already impacted.

 

[killatopak]

I really hope they replace him with someone else. It's not like he makes great music anymore. SE has tons of great composers like Hamauzu, Yoko Shimomura and Keiichi Okabe.

 

[Gunkankun]

3DS, without a doubt. The sped up battles and no random encounters make it much better. The graphics hold up pretty well and the loading times arent that bad.

 

[OmegaDL50]

The DQ IP is in a strange position.

Considering Sugiyama has the rights to the music.

Years ago before the merger with Square, I believe at the time Enix only had a permanent publishing rights and not rather ownership rights.

Which is why every DQ game was associated with both Armor Project (Horii's own studio), and Bird Studio (Toriyama)

I wonder even after the merger this contract limited to just permanent publishing still exists rather than outright ownership of the IP itself.

In fact a significant portion of the DQ games were developed by outsourcing companies with Enix still doing publishing duties. Chunsoft, Heartbeat, Artepiazza, and Level 5. It's only just recently that Square-Enix began to develop DQ games in-house.

In regards to copyright, Armor Project still seems to be associated with the mainline games because it is Horii's own personal studio.

Still it makes me wonder if the IP rights for DQ have stayed the same or have they changed. Perhaps Aeana can shed some light on this.

 

[Celine]

He is already forbidding them from using some of his music by the sounds of it.
The impact has already impacted.

I don't think you understand the consequence actually.
His music like the main theme or hell even something mundane like the select screen music is an integral part of Dragon Quest, it became iconic with time.
It's like asking to Nintendo to drop the Super Mario Bros. iconic music.
Simply an unfeasible request.
What SE will do is to wait for Sugiyama to die to then license the music from his heirs.
I doubt Sugiyama will have enough life in him to compose for more than another mainline game.

 

[Aeana]

The DQ IP is in a strange position.

Considering Sugiyama has the rights to the music.

Years ago before the merger with Square, I believe at the time Enix only had a permanent publishing rights and not rather ownership rights.

Which is why every DQ game was associated with both Armor Project (Horii's own studio), and Bird Studio (Toriyama)

I wonder even after the merger this contract limited to just permanent publishing still exists rather than outright ownership of the IP itself.

In fact a significant portion of the DQ games were developed by outsourcing companies with Enix still doing publishing duties. Chunsoft, Heartbeat, Artepiazza, and Level 5. It's only just recently that Square-Enix began to develop DQ games in-house.

In regards to copyright, Armor Project still seems to be associated with the mainline games because it is Horii's own personal studio.

Still it makes me wonder if the IP rights for DQ have stayed the same or have they changed. Perhaps Aeana can shed some light on this.

They've always owned the Dragon Quest IP itself. What they don't own is the scenario, character designs, or music. This means that they can do whatever they like with the name, but many aspects of the games themselves are owned by the creators.

 

[dan2026]

I don't think you understand the consequence actually.
His music like the main theme or hell even something mundane like the select screen music is an integral part of Dragon Quest, it became iconic with time.
It's like asking to Nintendo to drop the Super Mario Bros. iconic music.

Then Square are in one hell of a shit position.

I still say the best thing they can do for DQ is drop him and start fresh with new music.
It will suck, but better that than being under the thumb of this wacko forever.
Or wait for him to die I guess. But who knows if his heirs will play ball.

 

[FSLink]

- The 3DS version adds 2 new party members
- It has visible enemy encounters.
- The battles can be sped up
- The alchemy pot now makes items instantly and you can make multiples of an item at once with it. (there's also new recipes I believe)
- There's a camera feature
- There's more story stuff and a new ending

I'm probably missing other things as well. I think there's a new dungeon or two. I haven't finished it yet but it's a really nice version so far and it's a bit sad seeing it dismissed so readily on GAF.

Yep. I'm not sure how you can look at this list and think you'd rather have nicer graphics (since the Japanese orchestrated OST is so easy to add in) especially when it doesn't even look bad on the 3DS.