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[Shinta]

Old Man NieR was soooooooooooo much better. NieR is like the shining example of how to get localization right.

Don't get me started on Laura Bailey. Some of the best voice acting this gen.

 

[Busaiku]

Flower eye is the best waifu. Will get if the combat is good.

That's who you're playing as, and she has 4 sex partners.

 

[DigitalDevilSummoner]

I was actually fond of her voice.

Same here

In Japan the PS3 version had the typical young androgynous that was the brother of Yonah Nier as protagonist. Rather than ugly daddy Nier. I really liked daddy Nier though.

Not being a muscle clown with a laughingly huge jaw does not mean you are androgynous. He was just a young guy.

I liked the ying-yang dynamic of the outspoken and aggressive Kaine and the reserved and timid Young Nier more. Dad Nier was not bad but he ruined that.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

Since this is coming out in 2014 it would be great if this was available for the PS4, digitally if physical isn't an option.

 

[Astarte]

The

Spoiler

time skip

makes very little sense with Father Nier.

I don't really see why it would. The two niers go through the same situation involving the

Spoiler

books

so I don't see what the problem is

 

[InfiniteNine]

I don't really see why it would. The two niers go through the same situation involving the

Spoiler

books

so I don't see what the problem is

The skip was supposed to show growth which works for both but it primarily shines for brother Nier because of the drastic change mentally and physically. Papa just got an eye patch.

 

[Femmeworth]

The skip was supposed to show growth which works for both but it primarily shines for brother Nier because of the drastic change mentally and physically. Papa just got an eye patch.

Exactly, it comes across like Father Nier did fuck all during those years. Also the way Kaine looks at him doesn't make sense.

It was originally designed for that in mind, yes. Does it make Papa Nier version inferior to Brother Nier version as a result? Not necessarily.

Spoiler

Arguably, the lengths Nier goes through to save Yonah makes more sense for Gestalt than in Replicant. A man willing to destroy the entire world to save his daughter makes more sense at first glance than doing the same for your sister. And both versions already depict post-time-skip Nier as being extremely one-track. At most, you lose some subtle elements like Young Nier being very meek due to a more troubled upbringing only brought up in Grimoire Noir, or some subtle relationship tension between Nier and Kaine. But even Replicant didn't really delve into either of these elements in the grand scheme of things.

Spoiler

Well, there's some implied incest. Or at least the director considered it.

 

[Busaiku]

It's weird that their announcement trailer's in Japanese, but we're getting English only.
I'm glad we're getting English, but just seems strange to me.

 

[KillerMan91]

Kinda weird though that they are doing english dub for so limited release. Would sell probably pretty much the same amount even if it was subs only.

 

[Shinta]

Exactly, it comes across like Father Nier did fuck all during those year.

Came across like he was single-handedly protecting the entire town by himself with only one eye while the world was collapsing around him.

I don't know what you guys are talking about.

 

[Astarte]

The skip was supposed to show growth which works for both but it primarily shines for brother Nier because of the drastic change mentally and physically. Papa just got an eye patch.

Whoops, wrong time skip. Dad nier didn't really grow, he was just exhausted. He spent years searching for his daughter, and all that got him was a missing eye and an uglier face. Go team.

 

[oni_saru]

Ahhh still in a happy mood since finding out this morning~~

I can't wait for this game!! All is forgiven SE!!! *bows*bows*

 

[MechaX]

The skip was supposed to show growth which works for both but it primarily shines for brother Nier because of the drastic change mentally and physically. Papa just got an eye patch.

Well, not exactly.

Spoiler

Papa Nier's personality change was pretty drastic post-time-skip. Before hand, he was literally an everyman; all he wanted to do was to make sure Yonah was taken care of. He had the job of protecting the city because of his physique, but he didn't even take it all that personal. Post time-skip, Papa Nier doesn't give two fucks about anything else but killing every shade between him and Yonah. Hell, his visit to Kaine's hometown was pivotal, where he just openly notes that he wants to kill each and every shade indiscriminately. Pre-Time Skip Nier didn't care about this; he just wanted to live his life relatively in peace. Post-Time Skip Nier made an obsession into his entire life and it really showed.

Yeah, it's not as drastic as "Shinji Ikari goes through traumatic event and transforms into Chuck Norris," as character changes often tend to be in most works, but it was still an instance of character development.

Spoiler

Well, there's some implied incest. Or at least the director considered it.

Spoiler

Yeah, I think it was only something the director was thumbing around. I wouldn't have expected it to be better handled than the insect angle in Drakengard though.

 

[Femmeworth]

Came across like he was single-handedly protecting the entire town by himself with only one eye while the world was collapsing around him.

I don't know what you guys are talking about.

Hmm, I didn't think of it that way, but I would not say the game really supports that.

Edit: Who protects the village while he gets the keys?

 

[Potionsmaster]

I'm so pumped by this right now! I just think it is sad that such a potential gem won't get a physical release in Europe. Is there any chance they might change their plan?

 

[StuBurns]

It might be better in an objective thematic sense, but my point is that the narrative was not primarily designed with Father Nier in mind.

I did just mean thematically, I prefer the story from that perspective, I didn't mean to imply it's 'objectively' better or anything.

 

[Femmeworth]

I did just mean thematically, I prefer the story from that perspective, I didn't mean to imply it's 'objectively' better or anything.

I was correcting myself. Didn't want you to catch me between edits.

 

[Sora_N]

This looks good, do want!

 

[Shinta]

Edit: Who protects the village while he gets the keys?

I don't think anyone does. He looks like he does his rounds every day killing shades, and when he's gone, people die. They have a small militia I'm sure, but I doubt they can do anything.

 

[EatChildren]

Papa Nier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brother Nier

The father/daughter relationship holds far more weight and is more appropriate for Nier's plight and attitude than brother/sister, in my opinion.

 

[InfiniteNine]

Papa Nier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brother Nier

The father/daughter relationship holds far more weight and is more appropriate for Nier's plight and attitude than brother/sister, in my opinion.

Do you not love your sisters? >: I actually value my sisters the most in my family so I'd identify with it more.

 

[Coxy]

go tell it at the SE EU blog, facebook, whatever, i reckon if theres enough people, then something will be done

it annoys me that only japan gets a retail release while US you have to preorder and Europe doesnt even get that, only digital

They seem to be at least listening a bit on the eu playstation blog too
http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2013/10/09/drakengard-3-is-coming-to-ps3-in-2014/
they keep saying there's a lot of time until release so maybe they'll do it if people keep bitching

Drakengard 1/2's dubs weren't excellent, but they were not even close to the bottom of the barrel of that era of dubs alone. Like most passable dubs, it had good actors (Angelus, Legna), and not so good actors (Manah). That's why there is a pretty big spectrum in terms of "good dubs" and "bad dubs." Even in this case, the "budget" part of budget localization can mean many things, but not necessarily indicative of overall quality. Deadly Premonition is "budget," but it isn't offensively terrible stuff.

I mean, Star Ocean 4 had a good ensemble in terms of actors and directors and probably wasn't all that budget on paper, but, well...

All fair comments and I very much agree on Angelus and Legna. Eris was hilariously bad reading some very awkward lines but, yknow, what if it IS SO4 bad? I'd like an option. Not a total deal breaker in the same way digital only is though.

 

[Astarte]

Do you not love your sisters? >: I actually value my sisters the most in my family so I'd identify with it more.

I do value my sister, but just imagine having a kid. That relationship would be more intimate and personal than a relationship with a sister.

 

[Tohsaka]

I like the brother Nier scenario more, since it was the original vision. It also works better with Emil having affection for a guy closer in age to him than a much older man

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Do you not love your sisters? >: I actually value my sisters the most in my family so I'd identify with it more.

I feel like Papa Nier made the choice to have a daughter, as far as he was concerned, and thus that gave his journey much more weight. You don't choose your family, unless you're the parent.

 

[InfiniteNine]

I like the brother Nier scenario more, since it was the original vision. It also works better with Emil having affection for a guy closer in age to him than a much older man

Actually Father Nier was the original but the team liked Brother Nier more so it got skewed towards him with supplemental material and story points that cater more to him.

I feel like Papa Nier made the choice to have a daughter, as far as he was concerned, and thus that gave his journey much more weight. You don't choose your family, unless you're the parent.

Considering how the world of Nier works some of this doesn't actually make sense.

Spoiler

Since Popola is the one assigning/creating children and such.

 

[Shinta]

Actually Father Nier was the original but the team liked Brother Nier more so it got skewed towards him with supplemental material and story points that cater more to him.[/spoiler]

Pretty sure the brother is the original. SQEX LA said it wouldn't work for NA markets, and having someone so skinny using gigantic swords was unrealistic. And they wanted a new design.

I think Cavia was so against it they tried to make someone ugly. They were so attached to the original brother design that SQEX had to put out two versions of the game in Japan to appease them.

That's the story I thought I read somewhere ...

 

[InfiniteNine]

Pretty sure the brother is the original. SQEX LA said it wouldn't work for NA markets, and having someone so skinny using gigantic swords was unrealistic. And they wanted a new design.

I think Cavia was so against it they tried to make someone ugly. They were so attached to the original brother design that SQEX had to put out two versions of the game in Japan to appease them.

That's the story I thought I read somewhere ...

Well it's been a while since I've read the materials so that could be true, but this has been making me want to do a re-read.

 

[Tohsaka]

Pretty sure the brother is the original. SQEX LA said it wouldn't work for NA markets, and having someone so skinny using gigantic swords was unrealistic. And they wanted a new design.

I think Cavia was so against it they tried to make someone ugly. They were so attached to the original brother design that SQEX had to put out two versions of the game in Japan to appease them.

That's the story I thought I read somewhere ...

Yeah, that's how it was. I remember reading about this before while having the same conversation elsewhere.

 

[EatChildren]

Do you not love your sisters? >: I actually value my sisters the most in my family so I'd identify with it more.

I love them both, very much! But it's the context of that love that I find important. Like ShockingAlberto said, a parent is someone who often chooses to have a child, not a sibling with a sister. There's also an emotional depth between a parent and child that is very primal and strong, as the caring for a child is more or less the total commitment of your existence to the growth of another human being.

Nier's story makes such a big deal of that unbridled, reckless care and commitment to someone else, that I find it more grounded in a parent/child relationship than brother/sister. Nier never questions his commitments and from the moment the story starts until it ends basically every single big and little thing he does, even if trivial, is for her no matter what expense it costs him. And that says to me "parent".\

But obviously personal subjectivity will influence which is preferable.

 

[Femmeworth]

I like the brother Nier scenario more, since it was the original vision. It also works better with Emil having affection for a guy closer in age to him than a much older man

I think the director would disagree.

 

[MechaX]

All fair comments and I very much agree on Angelus and Legna. Eris was hilariously bad reading some very awkward lines but, yknow, what if it IS SO4 bad? I'd like an option. Not a total deal breaker in the same way digital only is though.

Truth be told, it really would suck if it was SO4 bad. Yeah, having the option would definitely be good. But I guess what I meant by "salt" over single audio in the original post was more the unreasonable reactions to it (noting the "should be in original Japanese audio" discussion from the last few pages) rather than the thought that it would be better to have an option, especially if the dub turns out badly. The latter, I can totally get behind.

 

[oni_saru]

Actually Father Nier was the original but the team liked Brother Nier more so it got skewed towards him with supplemental material and story points that cater more to him.

Nope. It was definitely Bro Nier who was the original. Thus why there's a bit more on Bro Nier in Grimoire Nier.


I like both Bro and Papa Nier. I think both stories work and are equally good. Though I do agree that Bro Nier's change is a bit more drastic with the time skip than Papa Nier's change.

 

[InfiniteNine]

Nope. It was definitely Bro Nier who was the original. Thus why there's a bit more on Bro Nier in Grimoire Nier.


I like both Bro and Papa Nier. I think both stories work and are equally good. Though I do agree that Bro Nier's change is a bit more drastic with the time skip than Papa Nier's change.

Yeah, my mistake there. o:

And yes I like bother too but I tend to skew to brother Nier since he had more work put into him. I enjoy playing him in the World of the Recycled Vessel anyways!

 

[Tohsaka]

I think the director would disagree.

I guess that comes down to a matter of tastes. I don't think either is wrong, I just prefer the Replicant version of Nier in general.

 

[Femmeworth]

I guess that comes down to a matter of tastes. I don't think either is wrong, I just prefer the Replicant version of Nier in general.

Actually, my point is that the director would prefer the more unethical situation.

 

[Mature]

Whoa, people thought Nier's localization was "medicore"? I thought it was beautiful. I can only hope Drakengard 4 will come nier that.

Edit: We can start with Drakengard 3 though.

 

[Shosai]

Yeah, that's how it was. I remember reading about this before while having the same conversation elsewhere.

Half-true. Brother Nier existed in concept design first, back when the game was supposed to be a 360 exclusive. The producer said they should consult with their LA branch to help make the designs more appealing to the western market. So they solicited their opinion, got the feedback and created father Nier as the official design.

Then halfway through development the game became multiplatform, and the brother Nier was rendered for the Japanese market. There's no evidence of any passive-aggressive civil war between studios.

http://www.siliconera.com/2010/05/20/barbarian-nier-was-born-in-los-angeles/

 

[Shinta]

Whoa, people thought Nier's localization was "medicore"? I thought it was beautiful. I can only hope Drakengard 4 will come nier that.

I like an optimist.

Half-true. Brother Nier existed in concept design first, back when the game was supposed to be a 360 exclusive. The producer said they should consult with their LA branch to help make the designs more appealing to the western market. So they solicited their opinion, got the feedback and created father Nier as the official design.

Then halfway through development the game became multiplatform, and the brother Nier was rendered for the Japanese market. There's no evidence of any passive-aggressive civil war between studios.

http://www.siliconera.com/2010/05/20/barbarian-nier-was-born-in-los-angeles/

There is evidence in Grimoire Nier. They talk about it pretty candidly about the team being disheartened and not wanting to go on if they didn't get to do the brother Nier, because they were all attached to it. He said it in a joking way, and laughed while telling the story, but it seemed like there was quite a bit of truth to it.

The page you cited even calls it a "heated debate."

 

[InfiniteNine]

Whoa, people thought Nier's localization was "medicore"? I thought it was beautiful. I can only hope Drakengard 4 will come nier that.

I thought it was pretty good all around actually besides Kaine sounding unnatural cursing sometimes I had no problems with it.

 

[Gameboy415]

Aaaaaaaaaand Pre-order locked!

I can't wait!

 

[Tohsaka]

Actually, my point is that the director would prefer the more unethical situation.

Yeah, I know. I don't really have a preference when it comes to that relationship.

Half-true. Brother Nier existed in concept design first, back when the game was supposed to be a 360 exclusive. The producer said they should consult with their LA branch to help make the designs more appealing to the western market. So they solicited their opinion, got the feedback and created father Nier as the official design.

Then halfway through development the game became multiplatform, and the brother Nier was rendered for the Japanese market. There's no evidence of any passive-aggressive civil war between studios.

http://www.siliconera.com/2010/05/20/barbarian-nier-was-born-in-los-angeles/

It says they had a "heated debate," and in the Grimoire Nier you can tell they didn't want to go with the father character.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

The initial reveal info made it seem like Zero and One were allies, but the trailer says that Zero is out to kill of them.

 

[Jomjom]

Can someone explain to me is Nier part of the Drakengard continuity or not?

 

[Shosai]

It says they had a "heated debate," and in the Grimoire Nier you can tell they didn't want to go with the father character.

Right, but merely having different design preferences doesn't mean that they deliberately sabotaged the western design to get back at anyone. Nor do I think the PS3 version was created as a peace offering, as it was probably clear to them that a 360 exclusive wouldn't move many units in Japan.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

Can someone explain to me is Nier part of the Drakengard continuity or not?

It's like this.

D3 > D1 > D2
\
\
\
Nier

EDIT: Ok, that didn't work.

It's D3 > D1 > D2

Nier breaks off from D1 on it's own thing.

 

[Shinta]

Can someone explain to me is Nier part of the Drakengard continuity or not?

Spoiler

At the end of Drakengard ending E, they are transported to another dimension that looks like modern day earth. The dragon is killed and the ash from its body disperses and creates a plague that wipes out all of humanity. NieR takes place thousands of years after that, when humanity is basically gone already. So there is continuity, but it's extremelllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyyy limited and you don't really need to know it to enjoy the game.

Ending E.

 

[ironcreed]

I keep watching the trailer over and over just for the music. I love it.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Wow, to cancel the JP preorder or not... Probably will. Still tempted though.


Also, play Drakengard 1, people. I read the LP. Then I played it.

Playing it is better.

 

[kayos90]

I keep watching the trailer over and over just for the music. I love it.

Really? I dislike the music. I also didn't particularly like the trailer as well. I guess it was good for a reveal trailer.