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[Spike Spiegel]

1.) wolverine's healing factor has limits and can be overloaded. This is exactly what happened during fatal attractions- the stress on his body from magneto tearing the adamantium out left him on deaths door for DAYS. It's better now since then, but still has limits. Sabretooth's and deadpool's HFs have always been leagues better.

Yeahhhh, it's probably been a while since you've read a Wolverine comic. Dude's been reduced to his adamantium skeleton and a few cells and regenerated in an astonishingly short amount of time. Also, unlike in the movie he's been shot through the eye, had his brains scrambled, and regenerated with total coherence and full memory recall within minutes. And to X-23, that's healing "too slow".

Comics!

 

[TheKaeptain]

Yep, "Marvel's First Mutant" is an X-Man now, taking orders from Cyclops and macking on Emma Frost.

Dude can't stay away from the blondes.

Emma is a slut.

 

[Manmademan]

Most characters' powers were toned waaay down for the X-Men movies.

The wolverine movie was particularly atrocious though. Even Adamantium can't cut through adamantium- per marvel it needs to be affected on a subatomic level to do any damage to it. An adamantium "bullet" should do jack shit to wolverine's skull.

There used to be a villain named Cyber with Adamantium skin- he gave wolverine the fits because his only vulnerable spot was his lower face/jaw. The claws would skid right off anywhere else.

Yeahhhh, it's probably been a while since you've read a Wolverine comic. Dude's been reduced to his adamantium skeleton and a few cells and regenerated in an astonishingly short amount of time. Also, unlike in the movie he's been shot through the eye, had his brains scrambled, and been coherent with total memory recall within minutes. And to X-23, that's healing "too slow".

Comics!

nah, I'm aware it's better now. The "reduced to a skeleton" part was versus Nitro around the time of civil war, right? If you kept reading civil war you'd know that Namor punched him into unconciousness later in the arc. I think the explanation is that...wait for it...his healing factor was too taxed to cope with the damage.

I don't want to get into boring nerdy list wars, but deadpool's is better. Sabretooth's has also *typically* been referred to as better, but Sabretooth is also substantially stronger and harder to kill.

 

[tim1138]

Yeahhhh, it's probably been a while since you've read a Wolverine comic. Dude's been reduced to his adamantium skeleton and a few cells and regenerated in an astonishingly short amount of time. Also, unlike in the movie he's been shot through the eye, had his brains scrambled, and been coherent with total memory recall within minutes. And to X-23, that's healing "too slow".

Comics!

He's pretty much immortal at this point isn't he?

 

[Affeinvasion]

i was told that Gambit at full power can manipulate energy at a sub-atomic level. He needs to become a villain.

Like the time he was one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse or the time he was working for Mr. Sinister?

 

[bangai-o]

Emma is a slut.

that is just part of Scott's plan.

 

[Chamber]

He's pretty much immortal at this point isn't he?

Yes, if not because of the healing factor then because of the power fanboy.

 

[DominoKid]

Cyclops vs Wolverine

jeez the 2 lamest of all.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

Cyclops vs Wolverine

jeez the 2 lamest of all.

No way those guys are the shit

 

[Calcaneus]

He's pretty much immortal at this point isn't he?

Just burn the motherfucker.

 

[Youta Mottenai]

He's pretty much immortal at this point isn't he?

Just burn the motherfucker.

And I remember some picture from a story where it's just his severed head talking.

 

[Manmademan]

Just burn the motherfucker.

total incineration would probably work, but there's not a lot of people around with that kind of firepower. Tough, but not impossible. On the flipside, Iceman hitting him with absolute zero levels of cold is probably a lot easier.

As pointed out, His HF can be overloaded, it just takes a lot to do so. Repeated, consistent damage over a long period of time will eventually kill him.

Wolverine still needs air, so drowning him in water, filling his lungs with concrete, or shooting him into space would do it. Anyone with matter manipulation (and there's a few of these) would own him mercilessly- Thanos turned his bones to rubber (lol) once.

and again, Scott's beams are perfectly capable of turning adamantium into paste. If Cyclops REALLY wanted to kill him, there's not a lot wolverine would be able to do about it.

edit: now that i think about it more, Iceman *by himself* is a more effective contingency plan for wolverine than the above scan. It's a little overwrought.

 

[Ri'Orius]

Man, sounds like X-Men's gotten pretty good lately. Any recommendations for TPBs to pick up?

 

[Regulus Tera]

On the flipside, Iceman hitting him with absolute zero levels of cold is probably a lot easier.

This is possible in the X-Men universe now?

 

[Spike Spiegel]

Man, sounds like X-Men's gotten pretty good lately. Any recommendations for TPBs to pick up?

Morrison's New X-Men and Whedon's Astonishing X-Men are good places to start for anyone. Beyond that, are you interested in a particular character or are your looking to catch up?

EDIT:

total incineration would probably work, but there's not a lot of people around with that kind of firepower. Tough, but not impossible. On the flipside, Iceman hitting him with absolute zero levels of cold is probably a lot easier.

edit: now that i think about it more, Iceman *by himself* is a more effective contingency plan for wolverine than the above scan. It's a little overwrought.

Cyclops's planning likely takes into account not only capability but capacity. Could Iceman freeze Wolverine down to absolute zero and kill him? Yeah, probably. But does he have it in him to kill a friend and comrade? Harder to answer.

Magneto and Namor, on the other hand...

 

[Rorschach]

who cares that jackass is never in any mortal danger anyways.

He used to be. :\ Back when he first got the metal ripped out of his body, he almost died. Now, he can do this:

http://i.imgur.com/hDX5P.jpg[/IG]
[/quote][quote]
And I remember some picture from a story where it's just his severed head talking.[/QUOTE]
That was Ultimate Wolverine.

 

[the_log_ride]

God, all this talk about powers / abilities has me so interested in comics. Thinking of everyone and their levels as well as tier lists is so damn interesting to me.

You guys are swell. Keep the discussion going.

 

[Manmademan]

This is possible in the X-Men universe now?

It's been possible for a VERY long time. Iceman was generating absolute zero level temperatures back in Xmen #2 (or was it 3?) in the early 90s. Per bobby "at that temperature, even titanium is as fragile as glass" and they used it to shatter the hull on asteroid M to gain entry.

it's comic book physics, but definitely possible. Current Iceman is an absolute monster. Physically he's unkillable, since any damage to his ice-form can be repaired using atmospheric moisture, and he's been shown to be able to stop at motion at an atomic level.

There's even a fun scan where he rips the moisture out of the body on an enemy (killing it, of course) and uses it to construct himself a new one. Current Iceman is an absolute monster.

Cyclops's planning likely takes into account not only capability but capacity. Could Iceman freeze Wolverine down to absolute zero and kill him? Yeah, probably. But does he have it in him to kill a friend and comrade? Harder to answer.

Magneto and Namor, on the other hand...

True, bobby probably wouldn't want to kill him, but he could, and pretty damn easily. Less of a stretch is simply immobilizing wolverine in enough ice that outright killing him isn't necessary.

 

[pieatorium]

Drill Claws Baby!

 

[Slayven]

This is possible in the X-Men universe now?

Been that way for years. But on the flipside Human Torch can reached the Planck temperature(a teamperature so high that the laws of physics break down.)

 

[Calcaneus]

total incineration would probably work, but there's not a lot of people around with that kind of firepower. Tough, but not impossible. On the flipside, Iceman hitting him with absolute zero levels of cold is probably a lot easier.

As pointed out, His HF can be overloaded, it just takes a lot to do so. Repeated, consistent damage over a long period of time will eventually kill him.

Wolverine still needs air, so drowning him in water, filling his lungs with concrete, or shooting him into space would do it. Anyone with matter manipulation (and there's a few of these) would own him mercilessly- Thanos turned his bones to rubber (lol) once.

and again, Scott's beams are perfectly capable of turning adamantium into paste. If Cyclops REALLY wanted to kill him, there's not a lot wolverine would be able to do about it.

edit: now that i think about it more, Iceman *by himself* is a more effective contingency plan for wolverine than the above scan. It's a little overwrought.

I remember reading some X-men Essentials where some villain totally fucked him up mentally. To the point where he couldn't bring himself to fight the guy. Don't remember his name. I guess that would be effectively putting him out of commission, if his healing factor didn't extend to psychological damage.

 

[the_log_ride]

Mysterio did a number on him in Old Man Logan. That was bad-ass...

 

[Slayven]

I remember reading some X-men Essentials where some villain totally fucked him up mentally. To the point where he couldn't bring himself to fight the guy. Don't remember his name. I guess that would be effectively putting him out of commission, if his healing factor didn't extend to psychological damage.

There were two villains that have made Wolverine piss his pants. Proteus and Cyber.

 

[coldvein]

you used "drill claw" and "optic blast" to lure people in here, you know full well nobody gives a shit about x-men comics, i do not appreciate this trickery OP.

 

[Lostconfused]

Christ frikin Deja Vu. Do all comic threads turn out this way? I had to take a look at post dates because I thought I was reading a 2 year old thread that some one bumped.

 

[Manmademan]

Christ frikin Deja Vu. Do all comic threads turn out this way? I had to take a look at post dates because I thought I was reading a 2 year old thread that some one bumped.

turn out what way? Marvel is doing a Cyclops vs. Wolverine crossover, so the discussion naturally went towards who is superior between the two, and why.

Where did YOU prefer this particular thread go...?

There were two villains that have made Wolverine piss his pants. Proteus and Cyber.

pretty sure there's been more than two- Proteus is a huge threat to anyone, but Cyber always struck me as kind of D-list. Old School Sabretooth was a MUCH better foil for wolverine- the one that used to hunt him down on his birthday every year no matter where he was and beat the hell out of him, just to show he could.

Apocalypse always struck me as a particularly good Xmen villain, but he hasn't been around for a while...

 

[remnant]

So Cyclops has his own Xavier protocols.

iroooonny

 

[WanderingWind]

turn out what way? Marvel is doing a Cyclops vs. Wolverine crossover, so the discussion naturally went towards who is superior between the two, and why.

Where did YOU prefer this particular thread go...?

Who would be the top?

 

[Manmademan]

Who would be the top?

uh

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Holy crap, just how overpowered is every other Marvel character these days?

Who would be the top?

Wolverine, definitely.

 

[enzo_gt]

So, a lot of this monumental event sort of comic book issues Marvel is planning by the looks of all these comic book threads recently. Is this a desperate attempt to stay relevant and hook fans or something? How do you consistent comic book readers feel about these practices? Do you guys feel cheesed a bit or is this all old news?

 

[Salsa]

You guys should really be reading "Wolverine Goes to Hell", it's been pretty killer so far.

Seconded. sogood.gif

 

[Manmademan]

Holy crap, just how overpowered is every other Marvel character these days?

oh man. this is funny. In terms of "overpowered" the Xmen are pretty reasonable. Never read a Thor, Fantastic Four, or any comic involving "cosmic" marvel if you value your sanity.

Or for that matter, half of DC comics. How does the flash even HAVE villains anymore?

So, a lot of this monumental event sort of comic book issues Marvel is planning by the looks of all these comic book threads recently. Is this a desperate attempt to stay relevant and hook fans or something? How do you consistent comic book readers feel about these practices? Do you guys feel cheesed a bit or is this all old news?

big yearly crossover events have been standard procedure for marvel since as far back as "fall of the mutants" or possibly even "secret wars" back in the 80s. It's extremely old news and nothing new.

 

[Chamber]

Holy crap, just how overpowered is every other Marvel character these days?

Just makes it funny when people give DC shit for having too many overpowered characters.

 

[Manmademan]

Just makes it funny when people give DC shit for having too many overpowered characters.

Weren't there just 10,000 supermen running around the DC universe? And how many lanterns are there now, green or otherwise? DC is not immune from criticism here.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

turn out what way? Marvel is doing a Cyclops vs. Wolverine crossover, so the discussion naturally went towards who is superior between the two, and why.

Where did YOU prefer this particular thread go...?



pretty sure there's been more than two- Proteus is a huge threat to anyone, but Cyber always struck me as kind of D-list. Old School Sabretooth was a MUCH better foil for wolverine- the one that used to hunt him down on his birthday every year no matter where he was and beat the hell out of him, just to show he could.

Apocalypse always struck me as a particularly good Xmen villain, but he hasn't been around for a while...

I think I've read 2 different issues where Apocalypse got killed (in different timelines). IIRC in "Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix," Cyclops, Jean, and young Cable teamed up to kill him when he was a (relatively) weak old man. And at the end of "Age of Apocalypse," didn't Magneto kill him in what was pretty much one on one combat?

 

[Chamber]

Weren't there just 10,000 supermen running around the DC universe? And how many lanterns are there now, green or otherwise? DC is not immune from criticism here.

Didn't say they were immune. Both companies do it yet DC is the only one with that reputation. It makes me laugh.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

oh man. this is funny. In terms of "overpowered" the Xmen are pretty reasonable. Never read a Thor, Fantastic Four, or any comic involving "cosmic" marvel if you value your sanity.

I know about the others and DC. The talk in this thread was just a reminder.

Edit: The sad thing is, this probably isn't nearly as bad as that really old "make up new powers for Superman out of nowhere because we wrote ourselves into a corner".

 

[Spike Spiegel]

I think I've read 2 different issues where Apocalypse got killed (in different timelines). IIRC in "Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix," Cyclops, Jean, and young Cable teamed up to kill him when he was a (relatively) weak old man. And at the end of "Age of Apocalypse," didn't Magneto kill him in what was pretty much one on one combat?

If you like seeing Apocalypse die, then you'll love Uncanny X-Force!

 

[Manmademan]

I think I've read 2 different issues where Apocalypse got killed (in different timelines). IIRC in "Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix," Cyclops, Jean, and young Cable teamed up to kill him when he was a (relatively) weak old man. And at the end of "Age of Apocalypse," didn't Magneto kill him in what was pretty much one on one combat?

ah, apocalypse has been killed SEVERAL times, but neither of those two are currently canon.

"The adventures of cyclops and phoenix" variant you're referring to was a far, far future version of Apocalypse in the timeline that cable was raised in. He was killed there, but (IIRC) due to subsequent events that particular future no longer comes to pass.

"Age of Apocalypse" on the other hand was an alternate reality created by Legion timetraveling and accidentally killing Xavier a decade prior to current marvel continuity. THAT apocalypse ended up conquering the world since Xavier wasn't about, but its not "THE" apocalypse. AOA is currently considered one of marvel's "alternate" realities- some characters are weaker, some are stronger, and some simply never came to pass vs. mainstream marvel.

Edit: The sad thing is, this probably isn't nearly as bad as that really old "make up new powers for Superman out of nowhere because we wrote ourselves into a corner".

did you ever see a scan where (an old version) of Lex Luthor makes a time machine out of an orange juice can and some wire? You could do ANYTHING in comics back in the 60s ad 70s and get away with it.

 

[enzo_gt]

big yearly crossover events have been standard procedure for marvel since as far back as "fall of the mutants" or possibly even "secret wars" back in the 80s. It's extremely old news and nothing new.

I see.. but isn't it like, overwhelming? Or no?

 

[Manmademan]

I see.. but isn't it like, overwhelming? Or no?

I don't actively collect comics anymore, but I can't see why it would be. Try being a fantasy novel fan and keeping track of what's going on across the dozen or so volumes of the Wheel of Time or Malazan series.

makes this shit look like amateur hour.

 

[Chamber]

Edit: The sad thing is, this probably isn't nearly as bad as that really old "make up new powers for Superman out of nowhere because we wrote ourselves into a corner".

1960's comics were silly(sillier).

That's the same time period where Hulk was thunder clapping away universes.

 

[Manmademan]

1960's comics were silly(sillier).

That's the same time period where Hulk was thunder clapping away universes.

Secret Wars II was probably the epitome of that kind of terrible writing. There's never been a character introduced as horribly overpowered and busted as the Beyonder. Plus...that outfit!

 

[m3k]

ah, apocalypse has been killed SEVERAL times, but neither of those two are currently canon.

"The adventures of cyclops and phoenix" variant you're referring to was a far, far future version of Apocalypse in the timeline that cable was raised in. He was killed there, but (IIRC) due to subsequent events that particular future no longer comes to pass.

"Age of Apocalypse" on the other hand was an alternate reality created by Legion timetraveling and accidentally killing Xavier a decade prior to current marvel continuity. THAT apocalypse ended up conquering the world since Xavier wasn't about, but its not "THE" apocalypse. AOA is currently considered one of marvel's "alternate" realities- some characters are weaker, some are stronger, and some simply never came to pass vs. mainstream marvel.



did you ever see a scan where (an old version) of Lex Luthor makes a time machine out of an orange juice can and some wire? You could do ANYTHING in comics back in the 60s ad 70s and get away with it.

thats the best thing ive read all day lol

 

[Slayven]

Good I hate terms like "overpowered".

 

[Manmademan]

thats the best thing ive read all day lol

 

[PhoncipleBone]

Punisher did it best by parking a steamroller on top of him.

Of course, that was after giving him a shotgun blast to the face and then doing this to him:

 

[Manmademan]

Punisher did it best by parking a steamroller on top of him.

Of course, that was after giving him a shotgun blast to the face and then doing this to him:
[punisher vs wolverine]

This is horrible

 

[HeadlessRoland]

He's pretty much immortal at this point isn't he?

Yes, he is currently immortal. The fear of drowning was just tossed in at some point. He has survived point blank nuclear explosions. And in fact his healing factor is damped WAY the fuck down due to his skeleton. Without the adamantium skeleton he can regenerate at an even crazier rate.