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Driveclub delayed, PSN+ replacement is Contrast

Well yes and no. Youtube is free. It's free on my phone, it's free on my computer, etc etc etc. When you can't use it on a console until you pay for it's service, it's bullshit.

"Free" games aren't free obviously, but they never were to begin with. So you pay to have access to them.

That's really the only point I'm making, I honestly didn't intend it to be a big deal, I suppose people assume everything is console war bullshit these days. I also agree that having YouTube behind Xbox Live Gold is pretty stupid.
 
Well, I'm sure it's an easy source of conflict, for StudioTan specifically, I really have no idea, and would prefer not to assume.

Personally, I call them free, if you take PS4, I paid £30something pound for a year of PS+, between Contrast and Resogun, I'm pretty much happy with that being £30 of value, so everything beyond day one of PS4 that first year, to me is 'free'. But if people really care about that distinction, I'm not sure anyone is right to argue it's not fair. Even though I'm on the side of 'free', it's pretty bold to admit you're semantically wrong, and still expect your definition to be the standard.

Agree. I have always accepted I'm semantically wrong. I didn't expect the definition to be standard either. I just didn't want to argue it, since nobody benefits. It's a distinction without a difference in the context of my first comment, since the benefit to the consumer is what I was trying to highlight in the first place, not the word 'free' taken out of context.
 
Re: free

When I get sick, I go to a GP and don't have to pay for it at the point of delivery because its via the NHS.

Every month I oatpy tax on my salary. Those taxes pay for the NHS.

It still feels like I get free healthcare - and more to the point, if I get really sick, I get value from the NHS that's in excess of the total amount I'm likely to pay toward it in my lifetime.

Now clearly PS+ isn't the NHS, but in over delivering in value in the way it does, the distinction between rental & gratis becomes pretty thin.
 
Agree. I have always accepted I'm semantically wrong. I didn't expect the definition to be standard either. I just didn't want to argue it, since nobody benefits. It's a distinction without a difference in the context of my first comment, since the benefit to the consumer is what I was trying to highlight in the first place, not the word 'free' taken out of context.

This will be my last post on the topic but I honestly only decided to comment on your post specifically because you made sure to emphasize FREE. I apologize if you took it as console bashing, I tend to be a stickler for that kind of stuff.
 
That's really the only point I'm making,

Which is exactly the problem I had with your response. You completely ignored the context of what I was trying to say and decided to pick on a word because you thought it is worth your time arguing. I wanted to avoid this conversation altogether, but here we are. Also, I didn't accuse you of console bashing and didn't think you were either. I accused you of pedantry, which you seem to have accepted in the post above. :)
 
Which is exactly the problem I had with your response. You completely ignored the context of what I was trying to say and decided to pick on a word because you thought it is worth your time arguing. I wanted to avoid this conversation altogether, but here we are.

It wasn't an argument, it was a question. It BECAME an argument but now I'm being pedantic again ;)
 
I feel really guilty for saying this, but I was interested in Contrast when I saw pictures of that chick in the playstation store lol. I thought the art style was pretty awesome and I'm fairly certain they picked a very sexualized shot of her. Needless to say it made me download the trailer. Is it sad that a grown ass man still falls for these traps?
 
I feel really guilty for saying this, but I was interested in Contrast when I saw pictures of that chick in the playstation store lol. I thought the art style was pretty awesome and I'm fairly certain they picked a very sexualized shot of her. Needless to say it made me download the trailer. Is it sad that a grown ass man still falls for these traps?
Just means you're human.

Given the opportunity marketers will tickle your balls each and every chance they get.

It wasn't an argument, it was a question. It BECAME an argument but now I'm being pedantic again ;)
A straightforward question too. There *is* a pretty big difference between "a free game" and "a game in the PS+ Instant Game Collection", and that's not just semantics.
 
Contrast is great, guys. One of my favorite games from PAX this year. It's no Driveclub, but it seems like a game GAF will love.

What does "it's no Driveclub" mean? Do you mean you played Driveclub and it was superior?

Because as far as I'm aware, if Contrast is fucking great, then it's equal in value to another great game, even if that game has a bigger budget :D
 
I feel really guilty for saying this, but I was interested in Contrast when I saw pictures of that chick in the playstation store lol. I thought the art style was pretty awesome and I'm fairly certain they picked a very sexualized shot of her. Needless to say it made me download the trailer. Is it sad that a grown ass man still falls for these traps?

It isn't. In fact, i'd be worried if you were a child and you downloaded it for that same reason. ;)
 
Honestly the news doesn't affect me as I wont' be getting a PS4 right away (wedding expenses), but I would have been a bit bummed, and a bit glad.

I feel like Driveclub will be strong enough to hold on it's own, given Evolutions ability to make a killer game. With some nudging by Sony, it wouldn't have issues breaking even I feel.

Contrast on the other hand I was almost guaranteeing myself that it would fall through the cracks and bomb out due to lack of recognition. I'm honestly happy to see Sony giving this a boost. I like when super stylized games get some lime light.
 
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:x
 
Just don't use the word free and there won't be this kind of discussion about it. It's a subscription. As long as you're paying for the subscription you're free to play the games as much as you want. Stop paying and you can't play them until you start paying again. It doesn't matter that you might subscribe to get something else than the games, multiplayer on 360 isn't free just because you happen to subscribe to Live to get access to Netflix.
 
I await the answer with bated breath myself as I said in my post. I always can understand someone who didn't like PS4 or what Sony was offering. What I don't understand are people who try to act like there has been some fundamental shift in what Sony was doing before this news and what Sony has done after. Sony delayed a game so it came out in a better quality state. That's good for gamers, but of course disappointing if it was one of the main PS4 launch games you wanted. But I rather that then a shitty game. It's simply good business to ensure the product comes out in a quality state, and I'd say that for any Xbox One game delayed for quality assurance. Or any Nintendo product (Miyamoto's quote about a bad game is bad forever is instructive).

In no way is this move malicious or underhanded or at all synonymous with the behavior of Sony in the past, excepting in how they delayed game just like every other developer in world history. Which would simply make the comment pointless altogether to even say it. Yay, old Sony is exactly the same as every other company ever... apparently?

Totally missed this post while spinning wheels on a different topic! :)

I don't think I need to say it again, but your comment is well thought out as always. Except for some mild disappointment, the only party that is affected by this is Sony. They now had to do a buyout deal with the devs of Contrast, which wasn't part of the launch plan. Not sure it would have any significant impact on sales, but there would be a handful of people canceling their pre-orders. How is this bad for the consumers in any way? If anything, it is marginally bad for Sony. Insinuating malicious intent is baseless FUD.
 
People are twisting this into something it's not. It's delayed and you'll still get it, in the meantime you get something else. Not like you won't get it at all. It sucks, but it's not as bad as sounds.

Gotta love launches.
 
A lot of people believe that when they're buying a launch console, they know that the company they're investing in will ensure it's success.

But it's blind faith nonsense. Look at people who bought a WiiU or PS3 at launch, a lot of good their "foresight" brought them.
I bought a PS3 at launch, my foresight worked out just fine, thanks. It's not a matter of blind faith, it's a matter of value and risk assessment and if you take a few steps back from console wars melodrama, realistic assessment of those factors generally ends up favoring an early purchase of a console if you're an enthusiast gamer to any degree.

A better example might have been the Dreamcast, since that console legitimately got shutdown early, but even then there remain many who thoroughly enjoyed that console, despite it's short lifespan. I'd wager that the majority of early adopters of the DC still view it as a worthwhile investment. I certainly do.

Honestly, I'd have to go as far back as the 3DO for a console whose purchase at launch I would consider "blind faith nonsense".
 
Totally missed this post while spinning wheels on a different topic! :)

I don't think I need to say it again, but your comment is well thought out as always. Except for some mild disappointment, the only party that is affected by this is Sony. They now had to do a buyout deal with the devs of Contrast, which wasn't part of the launch plan. Not sure it would have any significant impact on sales, but there would be a handful of people canceling their pre-orders. How is this bad for the consumers in any way? If anything, it is marginally bad for Sony. Insinuating malicious intent is baseless FUD.

Most like we'll never get an answer, but I hope he does articulate his thoughts on the matter. What interests me is people with unique perspectives so if he can find a way to describe why he feels the way he does, I might learn something new.

I just don't think he is very interested in informed discussion on the matter judging by the borderline inflammatory nature of the commentary, but I hope I am wrong :)
 
Not a biggie for me and actually Contrast is more than an acceptable stop gap. DC will still have a PS+ version when it releases so this is a win/win IMHO.
 
Most like we'll never get an answer, but I hope he does articulate his thoughts on the matter. What interests me is people with unique perspectives so if he can find a way to describe why he feels the way he does, I might learn something new.

I just don't think he is very interested in informed discussion on the matter judging by the borderline inflammatory nature of the commentary, but I hope I am wrong :)

Yup. Until he comes back to make a case, I will assume this is what happened

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Preorder cancelled... maybe.

I'm finding it very difficult to have any reason for owning a PS4 for another year. Watch Dogs was the one game I wanted to get, while Drive Club was the game I would give a try with the PS+ edition. I don't care for FPS, and the Assassin's Creed games are still in my backlog along with many other games that can keep me busy for a long time. On top of that, I am currently living overseas, so I have to either pay for shipping (like $80 maybe) or wait until my family visits me in January. If I did bring it here, then I have to worry about carrying it back on the plane with my other consoles and all my other stuff. It just doesn't seem worth it now, given the lack of games and delays.

I have a Launch Edition preordered from Amazon. Is there any reason to think PS4 consoles will be hard to find for the next year like the Wii was in 2006/2007? Not sure if I should hold onto it and wait until I come back to the States next year, sell it, or just cancel and buy one later.
 
Early 2014 is becoming stacked, if not already.

As much as I wanted this game at launch, if the delay means a better, non-broken game i'm all for it.

GT6 will sell boatloads for Sony, maybe they wanted to give Driveclub a better chance by separating the two. I would have preferred a Motorstorm anyways myself. NFS Rivals will fill my next-gen racing needs for now.

A bad game will always be bad, I'm sure they don't want to kill a franchise's potential before it even starts.


.
 
Well, I'm surprisingly okay with this. Driveclub was my most anticipated launch title, sure it looked rough around the edges on some of the earlier reveals but it looked great in the more recent videos. Its just my type of racer, somewhat similar looking to a PGR title which was my favorite racing series. It would have soaked up a good 100+ hours of my play time if it lived up to expectations, hopefully now it has a better chance of doing that.

To the people at Evolution, no sweat, make the game what you want. I was never interested in the PSPlus version myself, I wanted to own a physical copy. I'll be keeping my pre-order.

On the replacement, its my first time seeing Contrast. Just glad to have a replacement really. I may have bought the game on my launch day spending spree so I view it as some money saved and look forward to trying the title.
 
What were the first few straws? Not the ones you're grasping for, just a list of apparently significant mistakes that apparently brought you to this momentous decision, which you've obviously thought very hard about.

This is to date the PS4's first and only major PR fuck up since the PS4 debuted. The only one that is even arguable after that was the news about the amount of memory reserved for the OS, and even that was thoroughly scrubbed down after we figured out the real numbers. So I admit I am genuinely curious to hear this perspective, because I've read a few other people say it.

Don't get me wrong, it's perfectly fine to not like the PS4, but saying something is the "last straw" meant there were other straws before it, and since the only other straw I can think of prior to that would have been simply not liking the PS4 on a philosophical level, I think it might be informative to see what you think they were.

I mean to your edit:



I mean, this is the sort of thing that makes me ask this question. What about this is 'old Sony'? Delaying a product that wasn't ready so that it will actually come out in a quality state? That's what good videogame businesses do. And every launch since time immemorial has had delays and stuff of this sort, that's the nature of launch crunches. It sucks, but sometimes games just don't make it. So again, I'm curious as to what you mean.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I remember Sony stating that there were going to be a certain number, somewhere between 23-26 exclusive titles at launch, but from what I last remember, the numbers still don't quite add up and people were still wondering what the last couple of games were or if it was a misstatement. This close to launch, I'm guessing whatever is announced now is it for launch.

While Watchdogs is not developed by Sony or even a Sony exclusive, they were definitely behind it much in the same way as they were with GTA5. That delay to me, was also a ding against Sony. Maybe this is how it actually works in the industry, but I personally don't believe there were absolutely no signs that there may be a delay until the last minute when they decided to announce the delay. This situation is where I think MS's strategy of buying exclusives and moving what little 1st party dev resources they have all away from the 360 to the Xbone shines. Having an abundance of exclusives meant that when this delay was announced, it really didn't matter to the Xbone because of how many other exclusives at launch it still has. Now I know Sony doesn't have the kind of resources MS has to simply buy exclusives, but that's not really my concern as a consumer is it?

This is on Sony third party relations to keep an eye on and figure out what to do to soften the blow. To me this delay hurt the PS4 way more than the Xbone because the latter has far more exclusive, big retail games. I like the occasional indie game, but I still get more excited about the big so-called "AAA" games. In my eyes the PS4 already has a lack of large AAA games for the launch and could not afford to lose any more. Losing first Watchdogs, and now Driveclub was the last straw for me.

Remember this is just my opinion, and the loss of Driveclub, if indie games are what does it for you, doesn't mean a thing for you. For me, this was the last straw as I said. As of now I probably won't end up picking up the console until FFXV releases.

P.S. I also have been picking up what I feel are quality 3DS games since the launch of the console and have now stockpiled about 10 3DS games all while never owning a 3DS. This is also another reason I'm changing one preorder for another.
 
23 to 26? That's a bizarrely specific window.

I've never heard that.

They did say they have twenty five Sony published games in development for PS4, fifteen of which were targeted for the first year.
 
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I remember Sony stating that there were going to be a certain number, somewhere between 23-26 exclusive titles at launch, but from what I last remember, the numbers still don't quite add up and people were still wondering what the last couple of games were or if it was a misstatement. This close to launch, I'm guessing whatever is announced now is it for launch.

While Watchdogs is not developed by Sony or even a Sony exclusive, they were definitely behind it much in the same way as they were with GTA5. That delay to me, was also a ding against Sony. Maybe this is how it actually works in the industry, but I personally don't believe there were absolutely no signs that there may be a delay until the last minute when they decided to announce the delay. This is on Sony third party relations to keep an eye on and figure out what to do to soften the blow. To me this delay hurt the PS4 way more than the Xbone because the latter has far more exclusive, big retail games. I like the occasional indie game, but I still get more excited about the big so-called "AAA" games. In my eyes the PS4 already has a lack of large AAA games for the launch and could not afford to lose any more. Losing first Watchdogs, and now Driveclub was the last straw for me.

Remember this is just my opinion, and the loss of Driveclub if indie games are what does it for you, this announcement doesn't mean a thing for you. For me, this was the last straw as I said. As of now I probably won't end up picking up the console until FFXIV releases.

P.S. I also have been picking up what I feel are quality 3DS games since the launch of the console and have now stockpiled about 10 3DS games all while never owning a 3DS. This is also another reason I'm changing one preorder for another.

Watch_Dogs was looking rough as shit. It needs more time in the oven anyway and those morons at Ubi were going to put AC4 and WD out around the same time, potentially cannibalizing sales.
DriveClub was clearly missing some key components in the most recent build shown- and instead of rushing the product out now it has more time for Evolution to work their magic.

Can you imagine the shitstorm if these two games released half-baked "just to make launch"? Blaming Sony 'third party relations' over WD is ridiculous and criticizing them for delaying DC to make a more polished game is equally as short-sighted, IMO. I mean, this reminds me of the poster in the [RUMOR] thread yesterday blaming Yoshida. I simply don't understand it.
Personally, I'd rather have a better product for my $60. This goes for both games. From what I had seen of WD I wasn't going to buy it anyway. It wasn't as impressive as the initial reveal and it seemed dull after putting in hours of GTAV. Maybe now, with more time, Ubi can change my mind next year? I'll give them that chance.
This was a smart move- for both companies... and the thing is, they can afford to have both of these delayed. The hype for PS4 is massive even without these two. This is not going to sink the PS4 this holiday, or next year. Not even close.

The good news for you, Jomjom? There should be plenty of content for you next spring when you consider buying a PS4.
 
23 to 26? That's a bizarrely specific window.

I've never heard that.

They did say they have twenty five Sony published games in development for PS4, fifteen of which were targeted for the first year.

30 with 20 in the first year.

MS have "over 20" with 15 in the first year, which is where I assume you got the 15 from.
 
So...

Thread produced any interesting news or anything in the last 7 or so hours since I last looked?

I am obviously reluctant to read through it all just in case, but can anyone gimme a brief summary?
 
Judging from the *vast* number of pre-orders being cancelled, there will be some happier people around come early & late November.

Just think - cancelling your pre-order in pique might make someone's Xmas! Feel good about yourselves! :)
 
Watch_Dogs was looking rough as shit. It needs more time in the oven anyway and those morons at Ubi were going to put AC4 and WD out around the same time, potentially cannibalizing sales.
DriveClub was clearly missing some key components in the most recent build shown- and instead of rushing the product out now it has more time for Evolution to work their magic.

Can you imagine the shitstorm if these two games released half-baked "just to make launch"? Blaming Sony 'third party relations' over WD is ridiculous and criticizing them for delaying DC to make a more polished game is equally as short-sighted, IMO. I mean, this reminds me of the poster in the [RUMOR] thread yesterday blaming Yoshida. I simply don't understand it.
Personally, I'd rather have a better product for my $60. This goes for both games. From what I had seen of WD I wasn't going to buy it anyway. It wasn't as impressive as the initial reveal and it seemed dull after putting in hours of GTAV. Maybe now, with more time, Ubi can change my mind next year? I'll give them that chance.
This was a smart move- for both companies... and the thing is, they can afford to have both of these delayed. The hype for PS4 is massive even without these two. This is not going to sink the PS4 this holiday, or next year. Not even close.

The good news for you, Jomjom? There should be plenty of content for you next spring when you consider buying a PS4.

I totally understand that they are not doing it for the wrong reasons, and I don't even know if they could have prevented this from happening, but I wish they had. No matter the reason for delaying it, a delay is a delay is a delay.

I think I just wish Sony had paid for more exclusives or had gotten an earlier start so that they would have at least 1 or 2 more big games coming out at launch. With the loss of Driveclub, I'll just have to play GT6, which I felt personally should have been developed for PS4 instead of PS3 to put up against Forza.

The bolded part in your response was definitely my thinking as well. Also I'm hoping for a sweet limited edition FFXV PS4 as well.
 
Judging from the *vast* number of pre-orders being cancelled, there will be some happier people around come early & late November.

Just think - cancelling your pre-order in pique might make someone's Xmas! Feel good about yourselves! :)
Too bad people can't gift others their pre-orders.
 
Judging from the *vast* number of pre-orders being cancelled, there will be some happier people around come early & late November.

Just think - cancelling your pre-order in pique might make someone's Xmas! Feel good about yourselves! :)

lol I can almost guaranteed most of those people never had a pre-order in the first place.
 
I totally understand that they are not doing it for the wrong reasons, and I don't even know if they could have prevented this from happening, but I wish they had. No matter the reason for delaying it, a delay is a delay is a delay.

I think I just wish Sony had paid for more exclusives or had gotten an earlier start so that they would have at least 1 or 2 more big games coming out at launch. With the loss of Driveclub, I'll just have to play GT6, which I felt personally should have been developed for PS4 instead of PS3 to put up against Forza.

The bolded part in your response was definitely my thinking as well. Also I'm hoping for a sweet limited edition FFXV PS4 as well.

Yup, this. Because now Sony is without a Racing Game at Launch that one of its first party studios has made. Need for Speed is multiplatform so it won't be a system seller.
Now people looking to buy these systems are gona be, oh I'll just stick with my PS3 and get GT6 and wait till next year to get the PS4. Or, they'll say. I want the next gen experience now and buy Forza for the Xbox One since it can also play Need for Speed.
Not to mention Need for Speed is going to be a cross gen title as well. I see this as a huge blow for Sony. Racing games like Forza, and GT are system sellers. Esp to the casual market.
 
lol I can almost guaranteed most of those people never had a pre-order in the first place.

Don't know about other people but I can show you my cancelled Amazon preorder for launch edition. Don't know how you can "almost" guarantee anything for something you know nothing about.
 
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