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Driving manual: a few questions
- Thread starter Joel Was Right
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chadderbox77
Member
There's also no reason to hold the clutch in when driving/coasting or stopped, unless you are trying to develop one Arnold type calf muscle.
Never had that problem in my 20 or so years of driving. You'd be more likely to need to replace the whole clutch assembly before just the bearing needed replacing
Regardless, there are plenty of driving styles and there really isn't a right or wrong way it seems, just personal preference.
I'd personally never coast in neutral
I sit with clutch fully depressed when stopped and I'm in 1st
I work my way down through the gears when slowing down, including 1st if the speed warrants it
Handbrakes are for awesome turns
Technically, while I agree with your definition of riding the clutch and that having the clutch fully depressed does no damage to the clutch, it does technically cause wear.
Not to the clutch, but to the throwout bearing. But with the input shaft of the transmission being stationary and engine RPM is at idle, the wear is so insubstantial to be not worth worrying about at all, IMO.
I don't ever use the handbrake unless I'm parking and leaving the car.
If I'm coming into a traffic light from like 60MPH/ 5th gear I'll usually brake into 40MPH, downshift into 4th gear, brake into 20MPH, downshift into 3rd, brake until I'm slow enough but can still coast into where I want to stop, then shift into neutral and coast in. When I'm stopped I'll keep my right foot holding the brake, push the clutch down with my left, pop it into first and either hold it like that until I can move again or put it into neutral and take my foot off the clutch until I'm about to start moving again.
If Im coming into a stop sign from 3rd gear then I'll brake down to about 10mph, downshift into 2nd about 20 feel away, take my foot off the clutch, brake into about 5MPH, check both ways at the stop sign and roll through it without stoping all the way.
If I'm in 3rd and coming into a traffic light where I know I'll need to stop all the way I'll go into neutral and coast. If I'm coming in from 4th I'll downshift into 3rd, if I'm in 5th I'll downshift into 4th then 3rd. I don't downshift into 2nd for a complete stop, only when I'm going to roll through.
If I'm coming into a traffic light from like 60MPH/ 5th gear I'll usually brake into 40MPH, downshift into 4th gear, brake into 20MPH, downshift into 3rd, brake until I'm slow enough but can still coast into where I want to stop, then shift into neutral and coast in. When I'm stopped I'll keep my right foot holding the brake, push the clutch down with my left, pop it into first and either hold it like that until I can move again or put it into neutral and take my foot off the clutch until I'm about to start moving again.
If Im coming into a stop sign from 3rd gear then I'll brake down to about 10mph, downshift into 2nd about 20 feel away, take my foot off the clutch, brake into about 5MPH, check both ways at the stop sign and roll through it without stoping all the way.
If I'm in 3rd and coming into a traffic light where I know I'll need to stop all the way I'll go into neutral and coast. If I'm coming in from 4th I'll downshift into 3rd, if I'm in 5th I'll downshift into 4th then 3rd. I don't downshift into 2nd for a complete stop, only when I'm going to roll through.
Take this advice from someone who drives in the worst city possible:
Day to day driving:
If you ever want to stop or slow down your car, just put on neutral and apply the brakes. If you need to return to accelerating, put on the correct gear and move on.
For me, I usually change gears each 20 Km/h, so:
1st gear - 0 to 20 Km/h
2nd gear - 20 to 40 Km/h
3rd gear - 40 to 60 Km/h and so on
If you're in 3rd, go to neutral and make the full stop, then resume by putting it into the 1st gear. If you just need to slow down, you can gradually decrease the gears (3rd to 2nd to 1st) or go to neutral and adjust from there.
Driving test way:
Always decrease the gears in order (3rd to 2nd to 1st) following those steps:
1)See ahead where you want to stop and apply brakes gently
2)As the car slows down, press the clutch and change gears. After changing gears, remove your feet from it slowly. If you do it too fast the movement won't be smooth.
3)Repeat two until the car stops
At least in here, we didn't had to use handbrakes unless we need to park the car.
Day to day driving:
If you ever want to stop or slow down your car, just put on neutral and apply the brakes. If you need to return to accelerating, put on the correct gear and move on.
For me, I usually change gears each 20 Km/h, so:
1st gear - 0 to 20 Km/h
2nd gear - 20 to 40 Km/h
3rd gear - 40 to 60 Km/h and so on
If you're in 3rd, go to neutral and make the full stop, then resume by putting it into the 1st gear. If you just need to slow down, you can gradually decrease the gears (3rd to 2nd to 1st) or go to neutral and adjust from there.
Driving test way:
Always decrease the gears in order (3rd to 2nd to 1st) following those steps:
1)See ahead where you want to stop and apply brakes gently
2)As the car slows down, press the clutch and change gears. After changing gears, remove your feet from it slowly. If you do it too fast the movement won't be smooth.
3)Repeat two until the car stops
At least in here, we didn't had to use handbrakes unless we need to park the car.
Beerman462
Member
If your in first with your foot on the brake and clutch and you lift both 1st gear should keep you from being pushed as well as the hand brake I would think. I guess technically the hand brake is the safest, but you won't catch me doing it. What a pain in the ass.
I stay in what ever gear I was in right up to the stop and apply the clutch/break and shift into first.
Dude, as other posters said, don't touch the handbrake. If you are going a decent speed and know you can drift to the stop with the momentum you currently have, just press the clutch down, shift to neutral, and ride the FOOT brake to the stop.
I love driving manual, won't ever go back to a boring automatic car ever again (even in ATL traffic, damn).
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
overthinking it OP, but here's my experience, since I had to take my drivers license again recently in the Netherlands as an adult after learning as a kid in NZ.
1. old thinking
- as you approach things, change down through the gears and use the engine to brake.
2. new thinking (eco driving)
- stop accelerating, brake when needed, change to the appropriate gear and accerate when you need to.
note that I learned the above in the Netherlands which is a notoriously flat country and dutch people can't drive for shit in places like austriap with the mountains etc.... but the theory works.
seeing people say 'shift in to neutral' to get on the foot brake sounds really weird to me. you can just brake in fifth gear and shift into the correct gear based off knowledge of how cars work instead. Neutral wins you nothing here, you STILL have to shift and if you fucked up real bad, you have 0 forward power in neutral as opposed to 'not much' in any other gear.
EDIT: as for the handbrake thing, that is instructional safety driving and not a bad thing. You don't need it, but I've been driving for years and got distracted the other day on a 'flat' ground, bumped the car in front while I plugged in my phone. They teach you that in the hope you don't do what I did (there was no damage, but you can't judge a perfectly flat ground and doing something in the glove box takes longer than it takes to sense movement).
1. old thinking
- as you approach things, change down through the gears and use the engine to brake.
2. new thinking (eco driving)
- stop accelerating, brake when needed, change to the appropriate gear and accerate when you need to.
note that I learned the above in the Netherlands which is a notoriously flat country and dutch people can't drive for shit in places like austriap with the mountains etc.... but the theory works.
seeing people say 'shift in to neutral' to get on the foot brake sounds really weird to me. you can just brake in fifth gear and shift into the correct gear based off knowledge of how cars work instead. Neutral wins you nothing here, you STILL have to shift and if you fucked up real bad, you have 0 forward power in neutral as opposed to 'not much' in any other gear.
EDIT: as for the handbrake thing, that is instructional safety driving and not a bad thing. You don't need it, but I've been driving for years and got distracted the other day on a 'flat' ground, bumped the car in front while I plugged in my phone. They teach you that in the hope you don't do what I did (there was no damage, but you can't judge a perfectly flat ground and doing something in the glove box takes longer than it takes to sense movement).
It's more safe because the car won't move too much forward if someone happens to hit you from behind, but I also find it more exhausting because you need to keep your foot onto the clutch while stopped. During long drives it becomes a pain.
Joel Was Right
If you smell burning, it's probably the generators acting up. Report it anyway.
Manual intrigues me, and I think everyone should at least try it to start off with. If it's too cumbersome, then automatic it is.
It's so that in the event that someone rolls into you from behind, your car doesn't then roll forward.
ClosingADoor
Member
While at an intersection waiting for the light? That seems like the most useless thing ever, and something that will slow everything down when the light goes green.
Use the handbrake when parking the car, not while you are on the road.
Replacing a clutch is expensive and a pain in the ass, replacing brake pads is cheap and easy.
If I'm coming to a stop, I'll take my foot off the accelerator and coast in whatever gear I'm in until my rpms get low enough. Then I take it out of gear and coast the rest of the way in neutral while braking. I live in Florida which is completely flat, maybe that makes a difference? I can't understand why you'd put the extra wear and tear on your clutch and transmission by downshifting through the gears each and every time you need to come to a stop.
If I'm coming to a stop, I'll take my foot off the accelerator and coast in whatever gear I'm in until my rpms get low enough. Then I take it out of gear and coast the rest of the way in neutral while braking. I live in Florida which is completely flat, maybe that makes a difference? I can't understand why you'd put the extra wear and tear on your clutch and transmission by downshifting through the gears each and every time you need to come to a stop.
Goro Majima
Kitty Genovese Member
Kinda what I'm wondering
Fuck the brakes if I'm going to choose which to wear down, I can replace those myself
Reading this thread really explains why you see so many idiots on the road.
OP if you rarely drive manuals or are just a little wary of them always work your way up or down gears sequentially. The exception to this rule is first, which you should really only use when pulling away from stationary - shift down to first whilst moving and you'll likely iangaroo your way into a car/pedestrian. Using all your gears when approaching a stop helps you slow (engine breaking) but also keeps you in control should you need to make an emergency manoeuvre or find the stop is no longer needed (e.g. Traffic lights change to green as you approach them).
Neutral and handbrake at a stop is best practice as it is, again, safest for you and other road users/pedestrians, for example if anyone hits you you're less likely to roll forward and hit someone else. In practice people rarely do this (myself included) and just stick their foot on the brake in neutral.
Riding the clutch is NOT coasting in neutral with the clutch down, as mentioned above. It's driving with the clutch anywhere between fully released and fully engaged - the best example of this is waiting at a hill withr the clutch held down to just the bite so the engine has enough power to keep you from rolling back but not enough to propel you forwards. This is frowned upon because a) you have less control over the vehicle and b) it will shorten your clutch lifespan. Everyone does it though, including me.
OP if you rarely drive manuals or are just a little wary of them always work your way up or down gears sequentially. The exception to this rule is first, which you should really only use when pulling away from stationary - shift down to first whilst moving and you'll likely iangaroo your way into a car/pedestrian. Using all your gears when approaching a stop helps you slow (engine breaking) but also keeps you in control should you need to make an emergency manoeuvre or find the stop is no longer needed (e.g. Traffic lights change to green as you approach them).
Neutral and handbrake at a stop is best practice as it is, again, safest for you and other road users/pedestrians, for example if anyone hits you you're less likely to roll forward and hit someone else. In practice people rarely do this (myself included) and just stick their foot on the brake in neutral.
Riding the clutch is NOT coasting in neutral with the clutch down, as mentioned above. It's driving with the clutch anywhere between fully released and fully engaged - the best example of this is waiting at a hill withr the clutch held down to just the bite so the engine has enough power to keep you from rolling back but not enough to propel you forwards. This is frowned upon because a) you have less control over the vehicle and b) it will shorten your clutch lifespan. Everyone does it though, including me.
If you're on your biting point won't really slow anything down.
Not true at all: On hills, stuck in traffic and you want to rest and take your foot off the brake.
No it doesn't, It's taught to new drivers so they can grasp total control of their car and the biting point of their car.
I use the handbrake while waiting at the light and move my left foot on the gear pedal and the right foot on the accelerate pedal and not once have I ever slowed everyone down or felt like I was being slow.
Beerman462
Member
yeah, down shifting to brake is dumb unless you're towing/hauling a lot of weight and or coming down a steep decline. Disk brakes are cheap and easy to replace.
Good as a learning tool sure and good for inclines for sure. Day to day driving I don't use the hand brake.
Using the handbrake when you're just stopping at a junction seems to be more trouble than anything. Maybe if you have to stop for minutes and in a steep position I guess? I usually just brake instead. I like to be ready to go as soon I can, using the handbrake wich I'm not used to at all would probably slow me down 
I always use it when I park though.
Also, if I'm stopping at a light I know it's slow, like there's one that takes ages where I live that is very slow if you come from the not so busy road onto the junction, I'll put my car into neutral then after I've stopped as it has this Eco mode thing that sort of turns of the engine and starts it again when I press the clutch.
Driving sounds so complicated when other explains, but with experience you'll figure things out and sort of find your own way.
I always use it when I park though.Also, if I'm stopping at a light I know it's slow, like there's one that takes ages where I live that is very slow if you come from the not so busy road onto the junction, I'll put my car into neutral then after I've stopped as it has this Eco mode thing that sort of turns of the engine and starts it again when I press the clutch.
Driving sounds so complicated when other explains, but with experience you'll figure things out and sort of find your own way.
Pankratous
Member
- Press clutch in
- Use brakes to stop
- Go to first gear, either still holding clutch + brake (so technically neutral) or holding the bite so you don't roll back
- Go again when you can
There's no reason at all to use handbrake or neutral. Even on a driving test you shouldn't really use a handbrake at a junction (unless there's actually a STOP sign), with exceptions being the junction is at the top of a hill.
It's bad to skip gears when going up the way - 1 to 3.
It's absolutely fine to skip down the way, ie 5 to 3. (assuming you are going a suitable speed for the gear you are skipping into)
- Use brakes to stop
- Go to first gear, either still holding clutch + brake (so technically neutral) or holding the bite so you don't roll back
- Go again when you can
There's no reason at all to use handbrake or neutral. Even on a driving test you shouldn't really use a handbrake at a junction (unless there's actually a STOP sign), with exceptions being the junction is at the top of a hill.
It's bad to skip gears when going up the way - 1 to 3.
It's absolutely fine to skip down the way, ie 5 to 3. (assuming you are going a suitable speed for the gear you are skipping into)
Asked this side question in OP's gaming side thread but figured I should ask here for more answers (apologies for any mild hijacking of your thread OP!):
Side question since there are people who know stuff about cars ITT. If I turn on the car all the way and then space out for a sec and turn the key again briefly, only to realize it's already on, will that mess up the engine or to permanent damage to it?
Side question since there are people who know stuff about cars ITT. If I turn on the car all the way and then space out for a sec and turn the key again briefly, only to realize it's already on, will that mess up the engine or to permanent damage to it?
Technically you should never be in neutral when you have forward momentum as it removes control of the car (but I do go into neutral occasionally down hills or long slow down periods as it's easier than shifting and helps with mpg).
I would generally probably just keep the car in 3rd gear as long as possible in the situation by op, brake, put the clutch down, and put into neutral for the stop if it's a long stop at a light. Then 1st gear to go. Clutch in and first gear of it's a full stop but not long.
Potentially would drop into 2nd gear and launch from second if it's a quick stop situation (rolling stop basically).
And I would not be using a handbrake at all. Why? Lol
I would generally probably just keep the car in 3rd gear as long as possible in the situation by op, brake, put the clutch down, and put into neutral for the stop if it's a long stop at a light. Then 1st gear to go. Clutch in and first gear of it's a full stop but not long.
Potentially would drop into 2nd gear and launch from second if it's a quick stop situation (rolling stop basically).
And I would not be using a handbrake at all. Why? Lol
If you do it a lot it's not good for the starter and flywheel but just occasionally it's ok.
zorlaczerohero
Banned
For a test you do have to go down through the gears then apply neutral and the handbrake when you stop, this ensures if anyone hits you from behind you don't get pushed into crossing traffic or a car in front. In real life you just hit the clutch when you need to and use the brake until you come to a stop, pop it into first and go when you can. I was even taught to go 5 to 3 to 1 when coming to a stop, that was with a very experienced driving instructor, albeit decades ago. Bugger going down through gears, I do it on harsh hills to save my brakes or when going from 5 down to a stop, but generally can't be arsed going down through the gears if I don't need to, sure as hell wouldn't go 3 to 2 to 1 to Neutral, just go 3 to 1 and hold the clutch and brake. On a motorbike I do go down through the gears as the engine braking is so much better than it is on cars.
When starting out I remember using the handbrake when I had a stop light on a big hill to prevent the car from rolling backwards.
Maybe that is why his instructor is telling him to use the handbrake.
ThisGuy
Member
My truck doesn't have a hand brake. Just a foot operated parking brake.
If I'm in third and approaching a stop.
1. Press on clutch
2. Go to neutral
3. Release clutch
4. Coast while slowing to a full stop
5. Press clutch
6. Go to first
7. Release clutch, give it gas
Although, if there is a lot of traffic I down shift for control now that I think about it.
No hand brake needed.
I sit in neutral with my foot on the brake all the time. I hate hills I can roll back on though. I don't even stop on those. Just keep it in first and allow my truck to roll forwards a backwards a bit so the person behind me knows I have a manual.
If I'm in third and approaching a stop.
1. Press on clutch
2. Go to neutral
3. Release clutch
4. Coast while slowing to a full stop
5. Press clutch
6. Go to first
7. Release clutch, give it gas
Although, if there is a lot of traffic I down shift for control now that I think about it.
No hand brake needed.
I sit in neutral with my foot on the brake all the time. I hate hills I can roll back on though. I don't even stop on those. Just keep it in first and allow my truck to roll forwards a backwards a bit so the person behind me knows I have a manual.
Thanks. So even doing it briefly but often would be bad?
Sir Abacus
Member
1) If you use the handbrake when you stop you can't get jolted off the brake if someone rear ends you.
2) If you take off using the handbrake you won't roll into the jackass that came to a stop three inches off your bumper.
Crayon
Member
The starter is tough, but the car will go thru a few starters over it's life anyhow. So even if you broke the starter it's not a big deal. But yeah you do this enough and you could damage the starter.
But the starter is a tiny motor that gets the actual motor to start moving. So when you jam them together like this it's like a cat versus a horse. Your engine will not even notice. The nasty sound is the starter losing to the engine.
Sir Abacus
Member
Not really but you're wasting fuel. If you're in gear your engine will use its DFCO (deceleration fuel cutoff) to stop feeding fuel to the engine while you're engine braking.
Yes.
Astral/H3X
Member
Yeah like seriously. I'm seeing people in here saying to sit in gear with your clutch foot pressed to the floorboard for 2 minutes while waiting on a red light because.... Neutral bad?
WTF is wrong with you guys lmao. A tiny bit of extra brake wear isn't going to do shit. Not a lot of difference as long as you go to neutral soon enough that you aren't slamming your breaks to stop.
My car is from the 90's, I'm not sure it's fancy enough to have that.
Sir Abacus
Member
I'm not riding my brakes down a hill because some jackass wants to see tail lights.
It's a good way to chip starter teeth $$. Or Flywheel teeth $$$.
I'm talking about coming to a stop, not maintaining your speed down a hill. That's on them.
Crayon
Member
Your brakes are perfectly capable of slowing the car down a hill of any length. The concept of saving your brakes with engine breaking is backwards.
Sir Abacus
Member
If it has fuel injection and an ECU there's a good chance it has some form of it.
Oh wow, I didn't even know DFCO was a thing. Is there anywhere I can read about it in more detail? I mentioned it to my old man and we were both curious as to how it works.
Sir Abacus
Member
What? You don't actually shift. There's no synchro wear. It's not about saving brakes it's about not letting them fade and having braking power available in an emergency.
Crayon
Member
If you have a vehicle tat will fade the brakes under normal driving on a downhill, sure. But pretty much any regular passenger vehicle has brakes that are well more than capable of dissipating that kind of heat no problem.
Think about the automatic version of the car: very minimal engine braking effect but the same brakes are perfectly adequate for normal driving. Be that dragging down a steep hill or on panic stop from freeway speed. If you are manhandling the car for a few minutes you can fade the brakes but for normal driving, not even close.
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