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[kharma45]

Use the handbrake.

Never mind what anyone else here says, it's in the Highway Code at Rule 114:

Spot on. Not using it will get you minor faults in your test.

Driving: The Essential Skills (TES, 2010/11 version) – which is effectively the syllabus that learners should be taught from – says:

You should normally apply the parking brake whenever the vehicle is stationary.

Apply the parking brake and put the gear lever into neutral when you’re stopped at traffic lights or queuing behind other vehicles, unless the wait is likely to be very short.

Your foot could easily slip off the footbrake if, for example, your shoes are wet or if you’re bumped from behind. You could then be pushed into another vehicle or a pedestrian.

The use of the parking brake is even more important in vehicles fitted with automatic transmission. The parking brake will avoid

the possibility of ‘creep’
the vehicle surging forward if the accelerator is pressed accidentally while in D (Drive).

You are going to be marked on the use of the car’s controls on your test, and if you don’t use the handbrake in a situation where really you should then you will pick up a driver fault at the very least. You might even pick up a serious or dangerous fault if, for example, you roll back towards someone or over a give way line towards traffic.

 

[Joel Was Right]

Spot on. Not using it will get you minor faults in your test.

Driving: The Essential Skills (TES, 2010/11 version) – which is effectively the syllabus that learners should be taught from – says:



You are going to be marked on the use of the car's controls on your test, and if you don't use the handbrake in a situation where really you should then you will pick up a driver fault at the very least. You might even pick up a serious or dangerous fault if, for example, you roll back towards someone or over a give way line towards traffic.

Yes but vast majority of the time the red light at a traffic stop lasts only a moment, so in that context, do you even need a handbrake? It's an absurd amount of steps to drive a manual if so.

Brake, clutch down, foot still on brake, - handbrake up, clutch up to pulling point, handbrake down, foot off brake, gas, foot off gas, clutch, 2nd gear, gas.

 

[John_Videogames]

Yes but vast majority of the time the red light at a traffic stop lasts only a moment, so in that context, do you even need a handbrake? It's an absurd amount of steps to drive a manual if so.

Brake, clutch down, foot still on brake, - handbrake up, clutch up to pulling point, handbrake down, foot off brake, gas, foot off gas, clutch, 2nd gear, gas.

When the handbrake is engaged, you come off the foot brake and reposition over the clutch and accelerator. If the takeoff is tricky, you can even find the biting point before you release the handbrake and are thus instantly ready to apply the accelerator.

You do it all in two smooth motions (slow, downshift, handbrake; then biting point, accelerator/handbrake) instead of a series of steps.

 

[phisheep]

Yes but vast majority of the time the red light at a traffic stop lasts only a moment, so in that context, do you even need a handbrake? It's an absurd amount of steps to drive a manual if so.

Brake, clutch down, foot still on brake, - handbrake up, clutch up to pulling point, handbrake down, foot off brake, gas, foot off gas, clutch, 2nd gear, gas.

It's only one step, called stopping the car. Your body learns the procedure.

That's not a silly thing to say. It's like all the complicated absurd number of steps you have to make to play the note "B" on a recorder (left thumb here, left index finger here, all the other fingers out of the way, and breath out with just the right pressure at the exact same time you release your tongue from the little hole that I forgot to mention you have to put your tongue in). But once you've learnt it, you just see the note "B" and the rest happens without thinking.

You're driving a dangerous machine. The important thing is not what happens the vast majority of the time, it is what might happen. Sometime in your driving life you'll maybe find your foot slips off the brake, that your brakes fail, that the guy behind is distracted by your brake lights, that there's an emergency where you have to exit your car in a hurry ....

Ever read those stories where somebody's car rolled off a cliff-edge because they forgot to put the handbrake on? That's why you learn to do it as part of your stopping routine every damn time.

 

[kharma45]

Yes but vast majority of the time the red light at a traffic stop lasts only a moment, so in that context, do you even need a handbrake? It's an absurd amount of steps to drive a manual if so.

Brake, clutch down, foot still on brake, - handbrake up, clutch up to pulling point, handbrake down, foot off brake, gas, foot off gas, clutch, 2nd gear, gas.

You don't know how long it's going to be red for. The only thing you can be sure of is you will get a minor if you sit only using your normal brakes. It will become second nature and you won't even know you're doing it after a while.

It's also a certain amount of courtesy too. Most cars now have LED rear lights that are pretty bright, and using your handbrake will stop you blinding the person behind.

I recommend reading this from an advanced driving instructor http://www.diaryofanadi.co.uk/?p=4700

This is someone who actually knows what they're talking about. If you want to pass you have to go by the rules. No two ways about it.

Important bits from the DVSA in that article.

DT1 – the DVSA’s internal SOP for examiners – makes several references to what constitutes “a fault”:

For the turn in the road:

The object is to see if the candidate can manoeuvre and control the vehicle in a restricted space where proper use of the clutch, accelerator and handbrake, combined with judgement of the position of the vehicle in relation to the kerb, is essential.

For normal stops:

The candidate should be able to pull up parallel to, and within a reasonable distance of, the nearside kerb. The examiner should observe whether the candidate then applies the handbrake and puts the gear into neutral.

 

[Bustanen]

Handbrake at traffic lights? Never heard of this before, must be a UK only thing.
I keep the clutch depressed and only shift to neutral to save fuel on longer stops.

Handbrake should be used every time the car's parked so it won't freeze in winter.

 

[lem0n]

I've never, ever used handbrake at stoplights. All the e brake does is engage the rear brakes, and you don't need them to stay still at a light. I also flick it into neutral as I'm coasting up to a red light. Every engagement of the clutch wears it down so I try to keep that to a minimum.

Do whatever the manual says to do in your test, and then when you're out driving on your own you will find your own groove. Manual is so much more fun and engaging than an autotragic. Good luck!!

 

[Murkas]

Use the handbrake (and whatever else your instructor teaches you) in the practical test.

Then do what you're most comfortable with afterwards.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

This isn't true in any sense. Don't just make shit up and post it.

For the purpose of stopping at a light it is the same.

 

[Joel Was Right]

Damn, the car I'm driving doesn't have a handbrake lever, only a button.

 

[thesoapster]

Damn, the car I'm driving doesn't have a handbrake lever, only a button.

Good luck doing those E-Brake slides.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

American driving instruction and rules seem pretty terrible from what I'm reading in terms of safety.

If you're the first car at a stop light and some asshat rams into the back of you while a pedestrian crosses, you're going straight into that pedestrian.

Unless you use your parking brake when you stop.

Same as if you're the last car to stop and a car rear ends you. Unless you have cat like reactions, your foot will not keep up the same pressure on the brake and career you into the car in front.

If your foot is hovering on the gas pedal, you can end up depressing it and doing even more damage. Especially if you end up disoriented from the impact.

Then there's the point of not having your feet 100% engaged all the time.

Handbrake and neutral at a stop light means your feet can rest.

 

[kharma45]

Damn, the car I'm driving doesn't have a handbrake lever, only a button.

Makes no difference to what you have to do to pass your test. Might make it easier as the electronic handbrakes from my experience will often automatically disengage as you try to move off.

 

[Frankfurter]

American driving instruction and rules seem pretty terrible from what I'm reading in terms of safety.

If you're the first car at a stop light and some asshat rams into the back of you while a pedestrian crosses, you're going straight into that pedestrian.

Unless you use your parking brake when you stop.

Same as if you're the last car to stop and a car rear ends you. Unless you have cat like reactions, your foot will not keep up the same pressure on the brake and career you into the car in front.

If your foot is hovering on the gas pedal, you can end up depressing it and doing even more damage. Especially if you end up disoriented from the impact.

Then there's the point of not having your feet 100% engaged all the time.

Handbrake and neutral at a stop light means your feet can rest.

Aren't the regular brakes way stronger than the handbrake? I'm always on the brakes, while waiting at a traffic light. That's what I was taught in Germany.

 

[KHlover]

Yes but vast majority of the time the red light at a traffic stop lasts only a moment, so in that context, do you even need a handbrake? It's an absurd amount of steps to drive a manual if so.

Brake, clutch down, foot still on brake, - handbrake up, clutch up to pulling point, handbrake down, foot off brake, gas, foot off gas, clutch, 2nd gear, gas.

Sounds complicated if you've never driven manual, but you literally don't notice you're doing it if you actually drive manual.

 

[Crayon]

Aren't the regular brakes way stronger than the handbrake? I'm always on the brakes, while waiting at a traffic light. That's what I was taught in Germany.

Much. The brakes are hydraulic to all four wheels. The handbrake is a cable to the rear wheels only.

Driving is fairly rough out here tho so I wouldn't be shocked of the UK rules and tests are better even if the handbrake use seems strange to me.

 

[Jedi2016]

I've never even been told I should use the parking brake at a light. And why only for manual cars? The same idea of getting hit and ramming into a pedestrian is just as applicable to automatic transmission as it is manual, and yet I don't recall ever being told to put an automatic car in Park while at a light.

Also bear in mind that not all cars have that nifty little handle. My car's parking brake is electronic, and is intended only for, you know... parking.

 

[Sir Abacus]

I've never even been told I should use the parking brake at a light. And why only for manual cars? The same idea of getting hit and ramming into a pedestrian is just as applicable to automatic transmission as it is manual, and yet I don't recall ever being told to put an automatic car in Park while at a light.

A manual in neutral with you just holding the brake is going to go forward a considerable distance if you're rammed from behind and it jolts you off the brake. The automatic with no throttle is going to be mostly held back by the torque converter. There's good reason for putting the handbrake on when you're stopped in a manual.

 

[kharma45]

Aren't the regular brakes way stronger than the handbrake? I'm always on the brakes, while waiting at a traffic light. That's what I was taught in Germany.

Much. The brakes are hydraulic to all four wheels. The handbrake is a cable to the rear wheels only.

Driving is fairly rough out here tho so I wouldn't be shocked of the UK rules and tests are better even if the handbrake use seems strange to me.

Part of the rationale is if you get tail ended.

You must not rely on the footbrake alone as an impact from the rear will most likely cause your foot to slip off the footbrake.

Not sure how anyone can predict exactly how they will react in the event of a rear end collision tbh but if you have the handbrake on you KNOW you won`t move as far as you would if your foot slipped off the brake.

There is a logic to it, although after your driving test most will rely on your foot brake.

I've never even been told I should use the parking brake at a light. And why only for manual cars? The same idea of getting hit and ramming into a pedestrian is just as applicable to automatic transmission as it is manual, and yet I don't recall ever being told to put an automatic car in Park while at a light.

Also bear in mind that not all cars have that nifty little handle. My car's parking brake is electronic, and is intended only for, you know... parking.

Why does it make a difference if it's electronic or not?

 

[jonnyp]

This to past a test or real driving?

Test = go down each gear as you slow down releasing the clutch each gear till you stop, engage neutral and put the handbrake on foot off clutch.

Real driving = put it in neutral keep your foot on the clutch, brake till you stop, put it first and wait to pull away, no handbrake needed unless stopping for over say 10 seconds.

Bold part is how you drive.

 

[Sir Abacus]

Look. You're at the front of the line in a busy intersection, your foot on the brake. Some jackass rams you, you lose your footing, you hit a pedestrian there's going to be a lawsuit. That pedestrian's lawyer is going to pull you up onto the stand and ask you if you had your parking brake on. At that point you'll have to admit, "no" like a dumbass and then he mentions two words. "Comparative negligence".

Congratulations. You're now liable as well. You get a black mark. Your rates go up. You could get points, could get a suspension, could face criminal charges. It all depends on who's had a bad day at the time. But this could have been 100% avoided.

Put on your parking brake at lights.

 

[Evolution of Metal]

Damn, the car I'm driving doesn't have a handbrake lever, only a button.

Don't listen to this bullshit about using parking brake on every stop.

Also, don't bother downshifting now. Your brake pads are built to be replaced and getting an extra 10% mileage out of them isn't worth the constant hassle of going to 2nd gear every time you want to stop. Your clutch is also a mechanical part which wears out, especially if you cannot downshift smoothly and the car jitters. Once you get comfortable with driving the car, then you can think about driving as cost-efficiently as possible.

 

[kharma45]

Don't listen to this bullshit about using parking brake on every stop.

Don't worry about passing your driving test either then Meus if you listen to this.

 

[Crayon]

Don't listen to this bullshit about using parking brake on every stop.

Also, don't bother downshifting now. Your brake pads are built to be replaced and getting an extra 10% mileage out of them isn't worth the constant hassle of going to 2nd gear every time you want to stop. Your clutch is also a mechanical part which wears out, especially if you cannot downshift smoothly and the car jitters. Once you get comfortable with driving the car, then you can think about driving as cost-efficiently as possible.

It's not for saving your brake pads. It can save gas, tho.

 

[Rest]

Because he's learning to drive and doing the UK driving test, which most people seem to have missed. He can get all the shit habits he wants after he passes his test, but for now he has to drive by the book.

So... Why does the UK government want people to use the hand brake while stopped?

 

[Evolution of Metal]

Don't worry about passing your driving test either then Meus if you listen to this.

5. You need to apply the handbrake whenever you stop
Often candidates are under the impression that whenever you stop, like at traffic lights, you MUST apply the handbrake. This is incorrect, there is no requirement to apply the handbrake, and on test you will not get any marks for failing to apply the handbrake, unless something is effected, for example if you don't apply it on a hill and the car rolls backwards. There are of course benefits of apply the handbrake, such as you don't have to hold the footbrake on (Causing your brake light to glare on the driver behind), as you don't have to have the foot brake on you can have your foot on the gas ready to accelerate when you want to move, you will be more secure with the handbrake holding you (imagine if you foot slipped off the brake, the car would roll, the handbrake would prevent any unplanned movement of the car)

Once again don't listen to the bullshit about dragging the handbrake every time you stop. This quote is from the article about misconceptions on driving. Be selective, wait a few seconds after stopping to see if the traffic ahead is moving or not. If it doesn't move, then use handbrakes to lock the car in place. If you see cars moving, or the light is blinking, then don't bother with the handbrake.

 

[kharma45]

So... Why does the UK government want people to use the hand brake while stopped?

Rather than repeat what's already been said

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=227489090

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=227489140

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=227490924

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=227491432

Once again don't listen to the bullshit about dragging the handbrake every time you stop. This quote is from the article about misconceptions on driving. Be selective, wait a few seconds after stopping to see if the traffic ahead is moving or not. If it doesn't move, then use handbrakes to lock the car in place. If you see cars moving, or the light is blinking, then don't bother with the handbrake.

Care to link me to this?

 

[Joel Was Right]

I do not downshift in order to stop the car to a halt. If I'm ever told I'll need to do in order to pass a test, I'll switch to an automatic transmission.

 

[kharma45]

I do not downshift. If I'm ever told I'll need to do in order to pass a test, I'll switch to an automatic transmission.

You're off your tits lad. You'd restrict yourself to only ever being allowed to drive an automatic because you refuse to shift down gears? Fuck me. This is not complicated. You've had what, two lessons? Try to learn first before making such snap decisions.

 

[Joel Was Right]

You're off your tits lad. You'd restrict yourself to only ever being allowed to drive an automatic because you refuse to shift down gears? Fuck me.

If I'm approaching a junction at 3rd gear, I will slow down and stop the car before shifting to 1st gear. I'm not going to go from 1>2>3, and then 2>1>2>3 every 30 seconds - which is what I'd need to do driving on the roads I currently am in London. It's not that it's complicated but seemingly an unnecessary hassle. My instructor hasn't asked me to downshift through all the gears in order to stop, and I'm thankful.

edit* Obviously, I downshift to 2nd when making a turn that doesn't require me to stop the car.

 

[Crayon]

Automagic.

 

[kharma45]

If I'm approaching a junction at 3rd gear, I will slow down and stop the car before shifting to 1st gear. I'm not going to go from 1>2>3, and then 2>1>2>3 every 30 seconds - which is what I'd need to do driving on the roads I currently am in London.

You need to do it until you pass your test. Then do whatever you want. You'd be a fool not to get a full licence rather than restrict yourself to automatic cars only. You can always block change, surprised your instructor hasn't pushed that. You don't have to go through every single gear.

 

[Joel Was Right]

You need to do it until you pass your test. Then do whatever you want. You'd be a fool not to get a full licence rather than restrict yourself to automatic cars only. You can always block change, surprised your instructor hasn't pushed that.

Block change is what, e.g, shifting from 3 to 1, or 4 to 2? I do that. I have no problem downshifting in general, but I don't want to do sequential downshifts. I have not seen that being a requirement from any video or instructor I've come across.

 

[Jedi2016]

Why does it make a difference if it's electronic or not?

Because it takes a lot longer to engage and disengage than a lever, and it starts to malfunction if you just keep turning it on and off in quick succession.. it's just not meant to be used that way. It is not a "hand" brake.. it is a *parking* brake, meant to be used for parking.

So this "handbrake at the light" is just a UK thing? No wonder I never heard of it. And never will.. don't expect me to suddenly start doing it. I'll trust my own driving experience over GAF any day.

 

[kharma45]

Block change is what, e.g, shifting from 3 to 1, or 4 to 2? I do that. I have no problem downshifting in general, but I don't want to do sequential downshifts. I have not seen that being a requirement from any video or instructor I've come across.

That's it yes. You don't have to go through every gear. You will not get any minors in control block changing.

 

[Joel Was Right]

That's it yes. You don't have to go through every gear. You will not get any minors in control block changing.

Well, that's what I meant lol. What did you think I was saying? I mean, I don't know how someone can drive without physically downshifting .

 

[Evolution of Metal]

Care to link me to this?

Something like this: http://www.drivingcrawley.co.uk/blog/9-misconceptions-about-the-uk-driving-test or this: http://www.drivingtesttips.biz/when-to-use-handbrake.html

This is another good quote:

Try not to use the handbrake excessively during a driving test

So there is no definitive number for applying the handbrake for stops, it just says that you don't have to do it for "short" stops. What is a long and what is a short stop is up for interpretations. Both articles say that you should apply the handbrake if your stop is over 5 seconds.

 

[kharma45]

Because it takes a lot longer to engage and disengage than a lever, and it starts to malfunction if you just keep turning it on and off in quick succession.. it's just not meant to be used that way. It is not a "hand" brake.. it is a *parking* brake, meant to be used for parking.

So this "handbrake at the light" is just a UK thing? No wonder I never heard of it. And never will.. don't expect me to suddenly start doing it. I'll trust my own driving experience over GAF any day.

It's a UK thing to pass your test yes.

Why are you getting so defensive over what's deemed good practise over here? No one is expecting you to change your driving habits, you're not the one doing our test. Keep on doing whatever makes you happy.

Well, that's what I meant lol. What did you think I was saying? I mean, I don't know how someone can drive without physically downshifting .

That's how it read initially and seemed very bizarre... Makes more sense now you've explained what you meant.

Something like this: http://www.drivingcrawley.co.uk/blog/9-misconceptions-about-the-uk-driving-test or this: http://www.drivingtesttips.biz/when-to-use-handbrake.html

This is another good quote:



So there is no definitive number for applying the handbrake for stops, it just says that you don't have to do it for "short" stops. What is a long and what is a short stop is up for interpretations. Both articles say that you should apply the handbrake if your stop is over 5 seconds.

That's true, it's very open to interpretation which is why for a test I'd advise to play it safe.

The official DVSA guide for driving, which is the only official word to take when doing the test, says:

You should normally apply the parking brake whenever the vehicle is stationary.

Apply the parking brake and put the gear lever into neutral when you’re stopped at traffic lights or queuing behind other vehicles, unless the wait is likely to be very short.

Your foot could easily slip off the footbrake if, for example, your shoes are wet or if you’re bumped from behind. You could then be pushed into another vehicle or a pedestrian.

Quoting from someone who is an ADI, "The important bit is in that second paragraph – “unless the wait is likely to be very short”. It couldn’t really be much clearer. Furthermore, you are going to be marked on the use of the car’s controls on your test, and if you don’t use the handbrake in a situation where really you should then you will pick up a driver fault at the very least. You might even pick up a serious or dangerous fault if, for example, you roll back towards someone or over a give way line towards traffic"... At some stage, most learners ask something along the lines of how long they should be stopped for before using the handbrake. ADIs love to use the “when a pause becomes a wait” line, and then apply a number – for example, a pause is under 3 seconds, a wait is over. That’s rubbish. There is no way this can be answered in black or white terms – it depends on the situation.

I guess it's very situational, but I'd err on the side of caution until the test is done. It's a long read from that ADI but a good one.

 

[Rest]

Rather than repeat what's already been said

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=227489090

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=227489140

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=227490924

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=227491432

Those all look nonsensical and made up. It seems this is more to deal with the fact that the driving test giver as an agent of a bureaucratic clusterfuck than anything practical or safety minded. Brake lights blinding someone? That's part of the reason they're red, the eye has an easier time processing red light than most other colors, and can filter out a lot of glare from red light, so you're not staring into something that will impede your vision if you're caught in traffic.

 

[UFO]

Those all look nonsensical and made up. It seems this is more to deal with the fact that the driving test giver as an agent of a bureaucratic clusterfuck than anything practical or safety minded. Brake lights blinding someone? That's part of the reason they're red, the eye has an easier time processing red light than most other colors, and can filter out a lot of glare from red light, so you're not staring into something that will impede your vision if you're caught in traffic.

Not to mention the 3rd brake light, which is there to more easily inform drivers behind you that you're braking. Taking your foot off the brake and using the parking brake at a stop light is stupid and dangerous IMO.

 

[Par Score]

Those all look nonsensical and made up. It seems this is more to deal with the fact that the driving test giver as an agent of a bureaucratic clusterfuck than anything practical or safety minded. Brake lights blinding someone? That's part of the reason they're red, the eye has an easier time processing red light than most other colors, and can filter out a lot of glare from red light, so you're not staring into something that will impede your vision if you're caught in traffic.

Ignoring all the legitimate safety issues that having your handbrake on really does help with:

Sitting in traffic at night behind a car with some asshole stood on his brakes is infinitely worse than sitting in traffic at night behind a car with it's handbrake on. It's as bad to me as people not dipping their high-beams for oncoming traffic.

So it's considerate to your fellow drivers to simply apply the handbrake, and it saves you some leg ache too. I can't imagine why anyone would prefer to be standing on the brake when they can just yank a lever and chill.

 

[Ty4on]

Use the handbrake.

Never mind what anyone else here says, it's in the Highway Code at Rule 114:

Huh, I kinda see the logic. Especially in the winter it's quite straining and I occasionally use the sunblind.

 

[No Love]

Bold part is how you drive.

No it's not. You never need to be in neutral while moving.

 

[Randam]

No it's not. You never need to be in neutral while moving.

Qft.

And only operate the clutch for changing gears.

 

[Par Score]

No it's not. You never need to be in neutral while moving.

People act like engine breaking doesn't exist.

I can't imagine why you wouldn't want to be in gear when slowing down, never mind being in neutral and holding the clutch down? WTF kinda driving is that?

And then, bizarrely, they suggest putting it in gear while you're stopped and still holding the clutch in, rather than just sitting in neutral? I can only imagine they love giving themselves extra work.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

People act like engine breaking doesn't exist.

I can't imagine why you wouldn't want to be in gear when slowing down, never mind being in neutral and holding the clutch down? WTF kinda driving is that?

And then, bizarrely, they suggest putting it in gear while you're stopped and still holding the clutch in, rather than just sitting in neutral? I can only imagine they love giving themselves extra work.

People are terrible drivers.

 

[True Savior]

And then, bizarrely, they suggest putting it in gear while you're stopped and still holding the clutch in, rather than just sitting in neutral? I can only imagine they love giving themselves extra work.

Working out the calves while waiting for the most unnecessary time of the world (being stopped in traffic). Maximum efficiency. It's the only explanation.

 

[DBT85]

Love how driving manual is like some black art to so many on here.

 

[Dilly]

Don't brake while putting your car in neutral is the first rule of manual driving. It's a terrible practice.

 

[neorej]

Love how driving manual is like some black art to so many on here.

Yup. To many this video is like watching Penn & Teller explain a magic trick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaKfihd1C5I