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Dungeons & Dragons vs Warhammer Fantasy

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Megalosaro

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I have a bias towards DND. I've been playing it since 2002. The lore, flexibility and mechanics are neat.

However, lately I've been playing warhammer total war. At least visually the franchise is awesome. I love the aesthetic of the Empire in particular.

The lore seems on point too.

Both games can be expensive, dnd less so.

One thing though... I'm not entirely sure warhammer has gameplay. Whenever I've been to stores, I just see people play standing around checking out their dioramas. I have no idea how warhammer would be played.
 
What you see in stores is Warhammer Fantasy Battle. This is miniatures wargame. It's nothing like DnD.

For DnD-like experience set in Warhammer world you need to look up Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay.
 
Warhammer is expensive as shit. Thank Games Workshop for that.

There is gameplay lol. You can even use like catapult launchers and stuff.
 
I've been playing dnd for 15 years. Both 3Rd and 5e.

I haven't played warhammer. Though from my understanding not only do you need the game rule book, you also need an army manuel and then of course the black hole that is minis.


For dnd, I've spent alot, but it was all optional, outside of the core rules
 
Warhammer is basically the expanded mass-combat system of D&D.

You're moving armies instead of individual characters.

And, as a result, Warhammer is more about detailed combat mechanics and D&D is more about the adventure and story.
 
Warhammer Fantasy and 40k are ridiculously expensive hobbies that are run by total morons at Games Workshop. It's a shame, because the IPs are so strong.
 
Yeah, Warhammer (both Fantasy and 40k) is a pretty interesting setting wrapped up in a game that's way too expensive and is run by a company that is awful.
 
One big difference is that Warhammer Fantasy is a mass miniatures wargame where each player has upwards of a hundred models whereas Dungeons and Dragons is a role playing game where, if you play with models at all, each player needs only the model for his character. The really big difference is that Warhammer Fantasy is dead. Games Workshop owns the IP and killed the characters, the setting, and the game itself to be replaced by (the much less popular) Age of Sigmar. I don't know if it's recommended to get into the game unless somebody's giving you all the models and the books.
 
HariKari said:
Warhammer Fantasy and 40k are ridiculously expensive hobbies that are run by total morons at Games Workshop. It's a shame, because the IPs are so strong.
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ultron87 said:
Yeah, Warhammer (both Fantasy and 40k) is a pretty interesting setting wrapped up in a game that's way too expensive and is run by a company that is awful.
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Games Workshop has been making great strides lately. Still expensive, but they're more engaged with what the hobbyists are looking for (mostly). Not a bad time at all to be into 40k or AoS.
 
Tabletop RPGs like DnD are not expensive. You need a small set of players and a DM and the cost of the books and whatnot are shared between them, and you only need to spend as much as you want to.

Frankly, there are plenty of good totally free systems. Open Fantasy is one.

All you might want to play them is some pencils, paper and the right dice.

Wargames, on the other hand, are much more expensive. The buy-in is probably in the hundreds of dollars.

Netherscourge said:
Warhammer is basically the expanded mass-combat system of D&D.
Click to expand...

Fun fact: That's not just true in terms of it being a good comparison, it's basically true historically.

Both the first edition of DnD and the first edition of Warhammer can trace their routes back to Chainmail, the first fantasy wargame engine. DnD scaled it down (and then Gygax wrote bespoke combat rules in the original pamphlet which everyone used instead), wheras the designers of Warhammer 1st Ed expanded it. But the two big traditional fantasy game behemoths are both linked to that one game.
 
You can play D&D (5e at least) with nothing more than an internet connection and a few sheets of paper (for a battle grid and tokens to represent characters/monsters). All of the basic rules and information are available legally online from Wizards of the Coast. It's virtually free.

Warhammer... not so much.

That's the deciding factor for me at least.
 
Warhammer Fantasy doesn't exist anymore, they blew up the world and replaced it with Age of Sigmar which is very cool but a totally different world. Total Warhammer started development before Age of Sigmar which is why it still has the no-longer-existent Old World.

Anyway, Age of Sigmar is nothing but gameplay. It's a miniatures Wargame. Think an RTS but with physical miniatures. DnD is a role playing game which is to AoS as Skyrim is to Command & Conquer. A completely different genre.

Age of Sigmar has completely free rules online, but the miniatures are very expensive. The miniatures wargaming hobby consists of

1) buying models
2) assembling and converting models
3) painting models
4) gaming with models
Optional 5) immersing yourself in the lore with tons of books and stories. This is the part from Total Warhammer that doesn't exist anymore.
 
Leunam said:
Games Workshop has been making great strides lately. Still expensive, but they're more engaged with what the hobbyists are looking for (mostly). Not a bad time at all to be into 40k or AoS.
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That's good to hear! I've been out of that part of hobby gaming for quite awhile so my impression was certainly based on older info.
 
Megalosaro said:
Yeah, and from my understanding Age of Sigmar is basically a skirmish game instead of a war game, right?
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You can still lead big armies, but they're in loose skirmish formations as opposed to block formations.

For that, you can play older editions of Warhammer or Kings of War.
 
Megalosaro said:
Yeah, and from my understanding Age of Sigmar is basically a skirmish game instead of a war game, right?
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Skirmish games are a form of war game. War game is just generic category of any miniature, or token using game that recreates battles in some way.

Skirmish is just a type of wargame that focuses on smaller combat encounters instead of huge armies battling it out.
 
Megalosaro said:
Yeah, and from my understanding Age of Sigmar is basically a skirmish game instead of a war game, right?
Click to expand...

Not really, you could call it skirmish but the biggest difference from Warhammer Fantasy is that you move each model individually instead of assembling them into blocks and then moving the blocks. Models are still organised into "units" which have to keep close to each other. You still use a whole lot of miniatures (50-100) in a normal battle. In a true skirmish game each model would be completely independent and you would use maybe 10-20 models.
 
The dioramas stuff is because Warhammer is mainly a miniature game, not a roleplaying game, and people like to make custom stuff out of the miniatures. It is a whole different genre compared to Dungeons and Dragons.

Dungeons and Dragons being a tabletop RPG with ("optional") miniatures to represent the characters using either built dioramas (to pull in the players easily) or just sheets of paper. Everything else is just then played out in your head.
zero-charisma.jpg
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Warhammer on the other hand is a miniature wargame about giant clashes between different armies. You move units around a board, calculate damage, roll morale on troops, cast spells etc. It is a lot more structured since everything is represented on the board.
m1090013a_p1mb1.jpg
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One game requires just some books and imagination of the mind, the other requires a ton of miniatures. And a bucket of dice if you play Orks.
pic535359_md.jpg
Dump for 1 attack.
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Also, Warhammer Fantasy has the coolest world. Just saying.

Wait until you discover their sci-fi universe, Warhammer 40K, though.
jeK3KnH.jpg

It's basically if you took everything sci-fi, and then just poured a fucking tanker of all the drugs imaginable into it's veins and created something completely fuckin' insane and over the top on everything.
 
Megalosaro said:
Yeah, and from my understanding Age of Sigmar is basically a skirmish game instead of a war game, right?
Click to expand...

More so, but not in the sort of way that Mordheim was.

And yeah, OP is best off thinking about if they want to play a miniatures wargame or a role-playing game - Warhammer Fantasy has both types. The complaints here about the cost are mostly related to the wargame, the rulebooks for Warhammer FantasyRoleplay aren't any more expensive than D&D.
 
Warhammer is basically a tabletop RTS in terms of combat. You measure out movement, roll for damage, etc. It's all about the battles whereas D&D is more about the whole experience.

Warhammer is also EXPENSIVE as hell.
 
HariKari said:
Warhammer Fantasy and 40k are ridiculously expensive hobbies that are run by total morons at Games Workshop. It's a shame, because the IPs are so strong.
Click to expand...

Having worked at a comic/hobby shop, I can echo this loud and clear. Expensive and GW was a very difficult company to work with. Late/missing shipments, lack of proper tournament support, and generally just a sense of "people will buy whatever we put out so fuck it."
 
ultron87 said:
That's good to hear! I've been out of that part of hobby gaming for quite awhile so my impression was certainly based on older info.
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I've actually shifted my focus over from 40k to Age of Sigmar. Again, still a big investment, but people have taken notice about how GW seem to be approaching their IP, especially lately with community outreach.
 
Ledsen said:
Not really, you could call it skirmish but the biggest difference from Warhammer Fantasy is that you move each model individually instead of assembling them into blocks and then moving the blocks. Models are still organised into "units" which have to keep close to each other. You still use a whole lot of miniatures (50-100) in a normal battle. In a true skirmish game each model would be completely independent and you would use maybe 10-20 models.
Click to expand...

AoS does not have a set unit limit, when it was first released, it was advertised for skirmish level of play, and it still supports it. The whole point of AoS is that you play it as you want, they have been slowly adding in new ways to play and rule options to expand the game with more depth and to play larger games if players would like.
 
HariKari said:
Warhammer Fantasy and 40k are ridiculously expensive hobbies that are run by total morons at Games Workshop. It's a shame, because the IPs are so strong.
Click to expand...

ultron87 said:
Yeah, Warhammer (both Fantasy and 40k) is a pretty interesting setting wrapped up in a game that's way too expensive and is run by a company that is awful.
Click to expand...

disappeared said:
Having worked at a comic/hobby shop, I can echo this loud and clear. Expensive and GW was a very difficult company to work with. Late/missing shipments, lack of proper tournament support, and generally just a sense of "people will buy whatever we put out so fuck it."
Click to expand...

This has all changed in 2016, they made a complete 180. They now run live streamed tournaments, provide tournament prizes, engage with their customers on Facebook, put out funny viral marketing videos, respond to leaks with more funny videos, have basically released most of the stuff people wanted but thought were just a pipe dream, and much more. Prizes are still very high but they are releasing many box sets that are discounted up to 50%.
 
Personally I think the main appeal of Warhammer will always be the modeling aspect. If you are not interested in painting tons of models then don't even bother. Unpainted armies look like trash.

D&D is fun but at my age and point in life it's hard getting a decent group together. I only play Warhammer a few times a year now but I can enjoy working on the models in my spare time.

Also Horus Heresy (30k) is where it's at. The box sets they've released have seriously improved the price of entry also.
 
so..

there are two aspects to Warhammer.. the RPG and the Fantasy Battle.

The RPG is a similar system to D&D. However the RPG system is in a weird state of limbo right now. Fantasy Flight Games was publishing all Games Workshop properties that weren't Fantasy Battle or 40K (RPGs, boxed games, card games, etc). But that is officially over in Feb 2017, and it looks like virtually everything is OOP now. No word on if Games Workshop is going to pick the RPG stuff back up.

The RPG itself is pretty solid, focused a lot on combat without trying to get as deep as DnD, but still trying to provide more than just "you hit. you don't hit". WFRP years ago used to crush DnD on skills and proficiencies and stuff.. but DnD caught up with 3e..

Beyond that, WFRP is the campaign/world.. which as others are saying, you COULD recreate in 5e if you really wanted to.. though obviously just buying the source material, which then comes with the game rules.. seems to be a no brainer.

Warhammer outside of the RPG has absolutely nothing in common with DnD. It is a tactical strategy game meant to be played with a ton of miniatures. It IS amazing.. but again, has nothing to do with your experience with DnD. If you are looking to get into it, my rec is to either pickup the Age of Sigmar starter set.. after finding a local shop to play at. If you really like what you are doing.. then look at picking up a used army off of reddit or ebay. obviously you can buy new yourself.. but then be prepared to build, paint, etc.

RMI said:
Personally I think the main appeal of Warhammer will always be the modeling aspect. If you are not interested in painting tons of models then don't even bother. Unpainted armies look like trash.
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unpainted armies look like trash. yes. However I disagree that the main appeal is modeling. If anything, I think the fact that modeling is REQUIRED is what holds the game back. Look no further than the success of X-Wing and other CMG games.

Now the hobby IS expensive.. unquestionably. But you'd be surprised at how easy consignments can be found. I have an actual GW store in our metro area.. can usually get mini painted at tabletop quality for $4-6 per mini.
 
Ledsen said:
This has all changed in 2016, they made a complete 180. They now run live streamed tournaments, provide tournament prizes, engage with their customers on Facebook, have basically released most of the stuff people wanted but thought were just a pipe dream, and much more. Prizes are still very high but they are releasing many box sets that are discounted up to 50%.
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That's great. I left the store back in '14 so I guess they've changed their tune. Good for their fans.
 
disappeared said:
That's great. I left the store back in '14 so I guess they've changed their tune. Good for their fans.
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Yeah 2014 was basically the culmination of the worst period of their entire history. The shit year to top off a shit decade. They started coming around in 2015 with the change of CEO and are now looking better than ever.
 
RMI said:
Personally I think the main appeal of Warhammer will always be the modeling aspect.
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And they've been killer on that front too. Used to be you had your primers, paints, one kind of varnish, and washes.

Now in addition to that you have glazes, a matte medium, drybrush powders, gemstone inks, technical paints like rust and patina, texture, and there's supposed to be a set of paints you can add to others for advanced mixing of your own colors (I'm hoping to get a metallic blue out of that). Their YouTube page is one of my favorite resources for painting tutorials, too.
 
Might wanna also point out since people are talking about the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying game that Games Workshop and Fantasy Flight Games (the producers of said RPG) have suspended their cooperation and the game is now out of print and won't be produced anymore. So if you wanna grab a copy you might wanna hurry and find it....somewhere.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/9/9/a-new-path-forward/

It completely sucks, cause Fantasy Flight did some excellent boardgames with the GW IPs like Forbidden Starts, Space Hulk, Chaos in the Old World, a number of tRPGs and more.
 
It might also be worth noting that Fantasy Flight have lost/chosen not to renew their Games Workshop license. So if you have any interest in their products (the 40k rpg line is excellent) then it might be worth grabbing them before they're out of print.
 
KO Traveling Hobo said:
Warhammer Fantasy has a fairly robust pen and paper RPG. You might want to check that out for a compromise.
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Fantasy flight has what looks to be a pretty good set for 99.

I am not really looking for another trpg system though. If I was, I'd probably pick up the star wars rp.

But then again I am a sucker for rules books. It's an addiction
 
Keasar said:
Might wanna also point out since people are talking about the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying game that Games Workshop and Fantasy Flight Games (the producers of said RPG) have suspended their cooperation and the game is now out of print and won't be produced anymore. So if you wanna grab a copy you might wanna hurry and find it....somewhere.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/9/9/a-new-path-forward/

It completely sucks, cause Fantasy Flight did some excellent boardgames with the GW IPs like Forbidden Starts, Space Hulk, Chaos in the Old World, a number of tRPGs and more.
Click to expand...

close, though not Space Hulk.. the most recent Space Hulk release was in fact GW (2014?).. You can still find it for not terribly above SRP ($150).

Then there is also Deathwatch which came out this year.. and is like Space Hulk on steroids.. for $165.
 
As for Warhammer being expensive, it's kinda no longer just a GW thing. Most of the competition in the market for these games, have had to run up their prices. Privateer Press is probably the 2nd biggest miniature game makers out there, and their pricing is about the same as GW's now for miniatures.
 
One cool thing I remember about the WH minis was that one of our customers used to chop them up and make his own figures. He had a little army of custom Boba Fetts, painted perfect. He never played but he loved the creative side of it.
 
borghe said:
close, though not Space Hulk.. the most recent Space Hulk release was in fact GW (2014?).. You can still find it for not terribly above SRP ($150).

Then there is also Deathwatch which came out this year.. and is like Space Hulk on steroids.. for $165.
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Space Hulk Death Angel is what I meant. :P
death-angel-box.png


Megalosaro said:
Fantasy flight has what looks to be a pretty good set for 99.

I am not really looking for another trpg system though. If I was, I'd probably pick up the star wars rp.

But then again I am a sucker for rules books. It's an addiction
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If you want it, get it now. It's 40 USD right now on their Holiday Sale and like I mentioned, it's not gonna stick around.
https://holiday-sale.fantasyflightgames.com/catalogue/product/WHF01/
 
BattleMonkey said:
As for Warhammer being expensive, it's kinda no longer just a GW thing. Most of the competition in the market for these games, have had to run up their prices. Privateer Press is probably the 2nd biggest miniature game makers out there, and their pricing is about the same as GW's now for miniatures.
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this is kind of the same argument as comic books.. or a lot of collectibles really. prices have crept up.. but honestly the quality we are getting now on a resin or even plastic figures is insane compared to what we saw on metal and DEFINITELY plastic figures back in the 80s and 90s.

You do have some companies still putting out decent sculpts on lower quality materials (Bones for example) to get reasonably priced product out there. but if we went back to the quality and materials from the 80s (to lower costs).. the hobby would likely take a notable hit from criticism.
 
Warhammer Fantasy's 'reboot', Warhammer Age of Sigmar is a lot more accessible with smaller armies - you can have a great game with even 15-20 models per side now and the rules are a lot easier to pick up.

A lot of the hardcore gamers don't like it so much because it's changed so much and the strategy is very different, but it's a great game to play.
 
Android18a said:
Warhammer Fantasy's 'reboot', Warhammer Age of Sigmar is a lot more accessible with smaller armies - you can have a great game with even 15-20 models per side now and the rules are a lot easier to pick up.

A lot of the hardcore gamers don't like it so much because it's changed so much and the strategy is very different, but it's a great game to play.
Click to expand...

Personally the reason why I dislike Age of Sigmar is that they completely ditched the awesome Warhammer Fantasy lore for... whatever the hell they tried to do this time. I just prefer The Old World over Sigmar's Backyard, which I am glad lives on through other media like Total Warhammer.
 
Android18a said:
Warhammer Fantasy's 'reboot', Warhammer Age of Sigmar is a lot more accessible with smaller armies - you can have a great game with even 15-20 models per side now and the rules are a lot easier to pick up.

A lot of the hardcore gamers don't like it so much because it's changed so much and the strategy is very different, but it's a great game to play.
Click to expand...

honestly... they fixed WFB. I get people pissed that they burned down the Old World.. and AoS was SUPREMELY deficient in it's launch last year comparing 1:1 for people looking for the traditional Warhmmer level of tactics.. But with subsequent warscroll releases and the General's Handbook I honestly believe AoS is in a better place right now than WFB ever was. and while you still need the minis... the significant lowering of rulebook costs can't be denied.

Keasar said:
Personally the reason why I dislike Age of Sigmar is that they completely ditched the awesome Warhammer Fantasy lore for... whatever the hell they tried to do this time. I just prefer The Old World over Sigmar's Backyard, which I am glad lives on through other media like Total Warhammer.
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yeah..... I 100% get it. The game is in a way better place. But yeah... completely ditching the OW lore was a horrible move. I would hope they release an OW campaign setting at some point for AoS.
 
Played both D&D (2nd ed) and Warhammer (40k, blood bowl etc) extensively back in middle school. That's twenty years ago though, sigh. Probably neither play like when old geezers like me were young.

I never played D&D with miniatures though. It was all verbal / played out in our heads. They scratched completely complementary itches for me. Literally turn based strategy versus social role-playing games. It's like comparing Skyrim with XCOM. Why OP, why would you do that.

In terms of coolness of setting I'd rank it Warhammer 40k > Forgotten Realms >>> Warhammer fantasy (seriously fantasy is so bland/derivative).

But I liked to play D&D more. Then again I also prefer RPGs more than Strategy games.
 
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