There are a lot of people who find the ergonomics just fine and the same people love the controller as is.
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Durango/next Xbox controller currently covered in stripes; similar to X360 controller
- Thread starter Wario64
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There are a lot of people who find the ergonomics just fine and the same people love the controller as is.
Oppo
Member
"Primary control method" changes on a per-game basis.
What's weird is that Xbox is sort of known for shooters, but this scheme flies in the face of that. Your "primary" control points (most-accessed) are the two sticks and the shoulder buttons. That supports a symmetrical argument.
Older games, i.e. dpad+face button style platformers, also support symmetry. It's the case of analog+face buttons where the offset sticks seem to make more sense, but in either case - going either direction- it's either a short reach up, or a short reach down.
That's why I've always slightly preferred the Sony/Nintendo symmetry approach. I don't get why people are so bothered about it. Of course I switch to my XBox controller on Steam and don't think much of it these days, other than it feels just a bit strange. Not "omg my hands are cramping, this is unthinkable?!" strange, just.. a bit... offset.
It's improved, but it's still not great. The D-pad has 2 settings. 1 of them is basically the same as the old D-pad and the other lowers the circular part of it so that the cross part is more defined.
Yeah, and how many games use the left stick as the primary control method these days? Pretty much all of them. With the right stick, you are having to bend your thumb in a bit to use it, but it would be more awkward if you had to bend your thumb in a bit to use the 4 face buttons. For shooters, the Wii-U Pro controller is best. For games that use the left stick and face buttons, the 360 controller is best. For games that use the D-pad and face buttons, the Dual Shock is best. And by "best", I mean that your thumbs fall naturally on the controls.Nerfgun said:
Four_Chamber
Member
My man...should have been the first post
If it ain't broke don't fix it. It'd be crazy if they didn't improve the D-pad though, the only weakness of the controller.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
If I can't use mine or they don't have a new one, Wayne Brady isn't going to be the only person choking a bitch.
Yeah, and neither of them fixes the mushy response.
Syphon Filter
Member
huh? concave is way better.
That supports a symmetrical argument in the WiiU style, not dualshock. But twin-stick shooters weren't as big when Xbox was introduced
Of course, but these games were on the way out when the system was introduced. They've obviously had a bit of a resurgence since then
ok then...
Duke for lyfe!
Oppo
Member
How so? Just because one has the buttons above as opposed to below?
Sure, I was just pointing out that those games are almost invariably "use dpad OR left analog to move", ala Fez and the like. So you have a choice in that case.
Tell me why you think this is the case.abadguy said:
-Pyromaniac-
Member
The only reason this news pleases me is because I won't have to buy a new xbox controller for my PC gaming.
joffocakes
Member
There's that one with the dpad you can twist so it raises up and it's decent enough I guess, but I found myself going back to the default 360 controller's dpad for Street Fighter and stuff.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
Ditto. I like being able to swap battery packs in my X360 gamepad.
So, the rumor has it that the reveal should happen by the end of the month, no?
Of course that's the reason. Sony have used the same design since 1997. People that have only ever gamed on Playstations would blow a fuse if they made a more ergonomic design. I can see them now, all snapping their lobster claws in the air while shouting angrily.
Syphon Filter
Member
XBOX 1 controller was great too. Should they bring back black and white buttons?
I'm one of those people, when I play games other than FPS I like the DS3 a lot more the the 360 gamepad.
Honestly if I played fighting games at all I would probably murder someone after a play session with the 360 pad.
Syphon Filter
Member
It has apparently changed to May 21.
XBOX 1 controller was great too. Should they bring back black and white buttons?
FTFY.
IHaveCandy
Banned
color picker -> paint bucket -> done
I find movement and aiming with that set up easier personally. When i first bought my PS3 slim and KZ2 with it, i found it uncomfortable to be honest and ended up getting the S6 controller the next day. Also i have never really been a huge fan of "d-pads" at all, for anything other than maybe controlling a menu or something but not so much for any sort of gameplay.
Yeah, the 360's battery system is much better than the PS3's sealed controller. My PS3's controller battery is finally dying and I have the option of buying a new controller or figuring out how to crack open my controller and replace the battery pack.
I disagree. It's like the shape of a mouse needing to be different depending on whether you use a palm or claw grip -- the shape of the stick on a gamepad depends on how you use it. For me, convex is better.
infinityBCRT
Member
If I can't use mine or they don't have a new one, Wayne Brady isn't going to be the only person choking a bitch.
I think they won't have it since you can use smartglass for that.
There is a lot to improve. Shooters could be much better on console if they didn't have to rely on auto-aim to make them playable, for one.
It's too bad we're moving away from the Wiimote/Move. An improved version of either would have been great for next-gen consoles. Even just adding a pointer would be a huge upgrade.
I know going bigger was never an option, I was kind of joking there. As for the kids that play Minecraft, I doubt this new console will be directed towards them. If I were to buy a MS console for a child, I'd much rather buy them a 360 than Durango.
So far it looks like Sony made more changes than MS, so I don't think lazy has anything to do with it. Besides, if your fear theory had any truth, laziness would have little to do with it.
I thought the issue has always been how inaccurate the d-pad is, not how it feels or responds. I couldn't care less how the d-pad responds if I can double tap a direction in a fighting game and run instead of jump.
lol I still have one in my drawer. Found it while moving recently. Should probably pick up an xbox again some time.
XBOX 1 controller was great too. Should they bring back black and white buttons?
The d-pad was excellent in the S-controller, the rest of the design was shit IMO.
Uno Venova
Banned
Hopefully a rechargeable battery.
hidden offline
Neo Member
Positive - still asymmetrical
Negative - smaller!
I'm really used to the 360 controller.
I agree, would not mind if they changed that.
I heard Eneloops are cool.
shinobi602
Member
Bleh, it's the exact opposite for me.
You have to undo half a dozen screws on the back, then you can pop it open. I've not done it, but I've heard it's easy to do.
Yeah no shit! a $50 controller that uses AA batteries!? Please no more!
Oppo
Member
I'm not sure I buy the "fall naturally" argument, as I don't know if it means anything, but let's go with that for a sec.
The way I see it... and I'm not militant on this point, as I mentioned, I switch between them all the time and have no real big issue with either apart from the Xbox's mushy dpad... but I would like to understand why there is a vocal contingent that thinks symmetry is an outright mistake.
Shooters, or any 3D game with camera control - primarily both thumbs on sticks, fingers on shoulder buttons. Point for symmetry.
Racers - primarily left analog + shoulder buttons. Point for symmetry.
Platformers - primarily either left analog or dpad interchangeably, and face buttons. A wash. Arguably better on 360 controller if you never use the dpad. Arguably better on dual shock if you prefer dpad for platformers.
Fighter - dpad + face buttons. Point for symmetry.
You see where I'm going with this. Again I don't think it's a big deal to do the little reach, but if I had to analyze the most-used control mechanisms in games, I can't escape the fact that if there's 3D camera control, you are in fact using both sticks most of the time, and that just feels more intuitive to put them side by side. No one ever built an offset RC controller or steering wheel, it's just odd. So I think MS basically borrowed the Dreamcast's scheme (in that window of time when we were just getting used to one analog stick) and stuck with that.
Maybe you will be the one to actually try and explain why you think this is...?Sheroking said:
Thanks for the answer. I mean all you said was "it feels better", so ok, but I'm still not sure exactly why, other than you haven't spent any real time with a dual shock maybe? I readily admit that after using that shape for 10+ years, I probably have a lot of muscle memory for that controller, but it still didn't stop me from using the xbox controller.abadguy said:
To each his own of course. I just don't understand this though. I bought a 360 style controller for the PS3 and I NEVER pick any controller over the 360 one for my PC.
I grew up using PS1&2 controllers alongside my N64 and GC controllers and was blown away by how comfortable the revised Xbox and 360 one were. I was never a fan of the "duke" though.
Sony's controllers feel so squirrelly to me now.
On subject, I'm curious about the "smaller" rumors....not sure if good or not.
I have an extra...swing by and it is yours
I hope Not much smaller...like the madcatz fightpads from sf4-sfxt...too big of a jump.
LyleLanley
Banned
This is great news, I love the current 360 controller. Hopefully it isn't too much smaller though.
Holy hyperbole.
phosphor112
Banned
I don't see why people object to an internal battery. You can replace it (the battery) if it dies for cheaper than the charge and play pack, but do you guys really like buying AA batteries and throwing your money away?
And the love for asymmetry makes no sense on a controller but ok.
And the love for asymmetry makes no sense on a controller but ok.
How do you know?
Syphon Filter
Member
How was it bad if you said you like the 360 controller? It's practically the same.
IHaveCandy
Banned
I have a question for people saying asymmetrical sticks are better. This is typically because they feel its easier to aim, correct? If so, why does it matter where the left stick is placed when it is the right stick that handles aim? The right stick on both controllers is on the same spot. The placement of the left stick does not effect your aim. I think the REAL problem you guys have with symmetrical sticks of the Dualshock is that they are too close together for some. For some, they can't stop bumping them. The DS4 has more space between the sticks, so that shouldn't be a problem.