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[system11]

Could have sworn they said 60 on consoles a while back...oh well.

They did, it's another downgrade. Honestly I'd prefer to take the Infamous SS approach than a 30 lock. As long as you're going to average north of 45 I'd go with unlocked every time - I just played through Sniper Elite 3, it's 60fps in a tiny number of places but in reality unlocked and somewhere in the high 40s as an estimate. There's an option to switch on vsync which locks it to 30, and it feels like putting on a straight jacket. I lasted for less than a minute with that option on before fixing it.

And yes I was serious about Driveclub lacking a sense of speed. No 30fps racer has ever come vaguely close to the sense you get from one at 60 it's just a fact. It's not possible. At warp factor 5 it ceases to be "I'm driving really fast" and becomes "theres some shit blurring across the screen now which I'm somewhat in control of". It's better than nothing though. It has better handling and graphics than NFS by a pretty wide margin. It's a shame those are the only PS4 options right now.

And it's a shame people are making 30fps first person games but at the end of the day I have a backlog of stuff to play and it saves me some money

 

[Tagyhag]

If it's locked 30 then that's good enough.

All very valid points. I have one to add.

- Some people (like me / my brother who have been gaming our entire lives) cannot see a difference between 30 and 60 FPS, therefore there is no value (for everyone) in having 60FPS. It adds nothing. However, everyone can see better visuals and higher resolutions so that does have value for everyone.

Trust me, you can bro, I assume that you've been console gaming or low-end pc gaming your whole life because that tends to be the same case for others who say they can't see the difference.

If you played at 60 exclusively for a while, the sudden shift to 30 would be immediately noticeable. You should count yourself lucky that you haven't been spoiled yet!

 

[Qassim]

All very valid points. I have one to add.

- Some people (like me / my brother who have been gaming our entire lives) cannot see a difference between 30 and 60 FPS, therefore there is no value (for everyone) in having 60FPS. It adds nothing. However, everyone can see better visuals and higher resolutions so that does have value for everyone.

Couldn't you see the difference on that website he provided? If so, that's very interesting.

 

[Mr Moose]

Hopefully no drops in that 30fps.

And yes I was serious about Driveclub lacking a sense of speed. No 30fps racer has ever come vaguely close to the sense you get from one at 60 it's just a fact. It's not possible. At warp factor 5 it ceases to be "I'm driving really fast" and becomes "theres some shit blurring across the screen now which I'm somewhat in control of". It's better than nothing though. It has better handling and graphics than NFS by a pretty wide margin. It's a shame those are the only PS4 options right now.

Then you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

No, it's awesome. 1080p goodness.

Sounds good to me. 1080/30 is the perfect combination.

Soon or later all people who care about this "problem" need to realize this :

- Devs prefer to push visual over the FPS.
- Just a very small part of the user base really cares about this kind of thing (so that's why devs prefer to push the visual)
- Push 60fps is pretty hard.
- This gen of console probably will never deliver 1080@60 as many of us hope.
- Build a proper PC so you can have up to 4k@60 or 1440p@120
- This "60 or death" is old and tiresome.
- 30fps is fine if properly locked. Just take a look at DriveClub.
- Remember that sometimes your monitor may have a terrible lag, so even a nice 60fps may results not so good.

And this is a nice link to have some fun !

https://frames-per-second.appspot.com/

Are you guys kidding? This isn't a case where the dev is open from the start about being 30fps, which is ok in my books. The specifically said they were going for 60fps and have not backtracked or "downgraded" to 30fps. It was always going to be 1080p btw so this is a downgrade rather than a shifting of priorities.

For the record, I have a PC and will be playing on PC, but they shouldn't have said they were aiming for 60.

 

[Summer Haze]

I think fewer people care about it because so many have grown up in a time where games rarely run at a fluid frame rate. Driveclub lacks a sense of speed, it's just not there, instead you get a growing sense of disconnect as the slow framerate loses the ability to translate a feeling of speed the faster the car goes. It's a fun enough game but past the 'ooh shiny!' there's no wow factor at all, it doesn't engage with the eyes the same way Burnout Paradise or Midnight Club 2 (Xbox version) did, on older, slower consoles.

What the fuck am I reading? You couldn't be any more wrong if you tried. 30fps and a good sense of speed are not mutually exclusive. PGR3 3/4, Motorstorm, Split Second (on console), Forza Horizon and Forza Horizon 2 are just a few examples of 30fps racers that also have an excellent sense of speed. All you have to do is enter any DC thread, or type 'Driveclub' into YouTube to see how wrong you are.

And yes I was serious about Driveclub lacking a sense of speed. No 30fps racer has ever come vaguely close to the sense you get from one at 60 it's just a fact. It's not possible. At warp factor 5 it ceases to be "I'm driving really fast" and becomes "theres some shit blurring across the screen now which I'm somewhat in control of"

Hahaha, Jesus, you are serious. What a crock of shit. The last part of your comment especially. You're confusing a sense of speed in-game, with the speed at which the frames are renewing on the screen.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Hope my Bone copy will be at least 900p... paws crossed for 1080p though.

30fps I'm ok with, I'll a shallow dick that likes pretty graphics over framerate.

Same for me. A stable 30fps is good for most genres.

 

[system11]

Then you have no idea what you are talking about.

I'm familiar with significantly better, and you apparently aren't. That's ok, I'm happy you get the 'hit' from it. I don't, so I stated my opinion on the matter. Doesn't give me the buzz, I'm not immersed in the movement once the speed picks up, I don't 'feel' the car at all, I'm simply watching it.

I've logged literally thousands of hours on arcade racers, pretty sure by now I know what a game can and can't make me feel and why.

 

[x-Lundz-x]

Don't really think this game needs 60, it looks amazing though.

 

[Booshka]

woops

 

[border]

I guess I am probably not buying this game then. Looks fun, but not fun enough to drop full price on. Would'be bought it at 60, but the downgrade and the pre-order bonus shenanigans were big turn offs.

 

[Summer Haze]

I'm familiar with significantly better, and you apparently aren't. That's ok, I'm happy you get the 'hit' from it. I don't, so I stated my opinion on the matter. Doesn't give me the buzz, I'm not immersed in the movement once the speed picks up, I don't 'feel' the car at all, I'm simply watching it.

I've logged literally thousands of hours on arcade racers, pretty sure by now I know what a game can and can't make me feel and why.

Oh...you're talking about how 30fps racers make you feel?

That's cool. For a moment there I was thinking you were trying to pass off your BS opinion as fact.

 

[CND]

What the fuck am I reading? You couldn't be any more wrong if you tried. 30fps and a good sense of speed are not mutually exclusive. PGR3 3/4, Motorstorm, Split Second (on console), Forza Horizon and Forza Horizon 2 are just a few examples of 30fps racers that also have an excellent sense of speed. All you have to do is enter any DC thread, or type 'Driveclub' into YouTube to see how wrong you are.



Hahaha, Jesus, you are serious. What a crock of shit. The last part of your comment especially. You're confusing a sense of speed in-game, with the speed at which the frames are renewing on the screen.

I assume he means a doubling of response time.
Lower framerate not only looks worse, it also *feels* worse.

Which is why a lot of people would prefer higher framerate over prettier pixels.

 

[nkarafo]

Dat 16 GB ram requirement on PC tho.

This could be a typo or error. There is no logic releasing a game today with this as a requirement. Maybe in 6 or 7 years.

 

[system11]

Oh...you're talking about how 30fps racers make you feel?

That's cool. For a moment there I was thinking you were trying to pass off your BS opinion as fact.

Do you get the same amount of visual information from 30fps that you get from 60? No. Does 60 transmit more information about movement? Yes. Do we need a sense of movement for a sense of speed? Yes. Do we need more than 30fps for our eyes to be fooled such that we can't see that in reality the movement is just animation frames? Yes. These are actually facts. I was just trying to be nice about the pointlessly rude responses.

Let's just say that it's your opinion that the game has a good sense of speed, and leave it there.

 

[CND]

What the fuck am I reading? You couldn't be any more wrong if you tried. 30fps and a good sense of speed are not mutually exclusive. PGR3 3/4, Motorstorm, Split Second (on console), Forza Horizon and Forza Horizon 2 are just a few examples of 30fps racers that also have an excellent sense of speed. All you have to do is enter any DC thread, or type 'Driveclub' into YouTube to see how wrong you are.



Hahaha, Jesus, you are serious. What a crock of shit. The last part of your comment especially. You're confusing a sense of speed in-game, with the speed at which the frames are renewing on the screen.

How are frame rate and "sense of speed" orthogonal?
As a thought experiment, imagine a car in a game going in excess of 200 miles per hour, but with a new frame painted to the screen every second (1 FPS). Would you get a "rush" from that subjective sense of speed? How about 15 FPS? How about 60? You see my point?

 

[dgrdsv]

30 fps is "awesome"? I don't want to live on this planet anymore. 60 fps should be standard.

Of course it's awesome. It means that I'll be playing this game on PC in 60 fps with much better graphics.

 

[Summer Haze]

Do you get the same amount of visual information from 30fps that you get from 60? No. Does 60 transmit more information about movement? Yes. Do we need a sense of movement for a sense of speed? Yes. Do we need more than 30fps for our eyes to be fooled such that we can't see that in reality the movement is just animation frames? Yes. These are actually facts. I was just trying to be nice about the pointlessly rude responses.

Let's just say that it's your opinion that the game has a good sense of speed, and leave it there.

What you're typing, and what I've seen with my own eyes are two completely different things. You originally said "Driveclub lacks a sense of speed, it's just not there,"...which, no matter how many "facts" throw at me, is a crock of shit.

I'm not arguing that it wouldn't look and play nicer at 60fps, nor am I arguing that 60fps would increase the sense of speed even more, I'm just calling you out on your ridiculous "opinion".

How are frame rate and "sense of speed" orthogonal?
As a thought experiment, imagine a car in a game going in excess of 200 miles per hour, but with a new frame painted to the screen every second (1 FPS). Would you get a "rush" from that subjective sense of speed? How about 15 FPS? How about 60? You see my point?

Refer to the above comment and the quote in that comment.

 

[drotahorror]

Targeting 60fps, aiming for 60fps, seems like it's just a bunch of bull lately.

For the rest of the generation if someone says they're doing either, I'll just assume it's 30fps.

 

[UncleCross]

Are you guys kidding? This isn't a case where the dev is open from the start about being 30fps, which is ok in my books. The specifically said they were going for 60fps and have not backtracked or "downgraded" to 30fps. It was always going to be 1080p btw so this is a downgrade rather than a shifting of priorities.

For the record, I have a PC and will be playing on PC, but they shouldn't have said they were aiming for 60.

I just prefer 30 (I know most don't), so the downgrade doesn't really bother me.

 

[Pankratous]

Couldn't you see the difference on that website he provided? If so, that's very interesting.

If it's locked 30 then that's good enough.



Trust me, you can bro, I assume that you've been console gaming or low-end pc gaming your whole life because that tends to be the same case for others who say they can't see the difference.

If you played at 60 exclusively for a while, the sudden shift to 30 would be immediately noticeable. You should count yourself lucky that you haven't been spoiled yet!

I can see the difference on that website. There's another website that people use - I can't remember what it is called but it features about 12 (I think) side-by-side comparisons of PC games at 30 FPS vs 60 FPS and you have to click the 60 FPS video. I cannot see a difference at all in any of the comparisons, total guesswork. Always get about 5-7 correct.

Playing games like TLoU remastered at 60 FPS and then switching to 30 FPS, I see no difference.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Don't state a definitive resolution or framerate until you can prove that in the end.

That being said, as long as its a stable thirty, i don't mind really...

 

[Creaking]

I had a feeling it wasn't going to be 60fps and 1080p when I saw the visuals. Maybe towards the end of the generation.

The opposite will happen.


I really hope Naughty Dog can get Uncharted 4 to 60fps. The fps next-gen dream is dying hard.

 

[legacyzero]

GOOD. I would take the 1080p of the 60 FPS on console any day.

Don't state a definitive resolution or framerate until you can prove that in the end.

That being said, as long as its a stable thirty, i don't mind really...

"Targetting"

 

[StevieP]

So what's the next console game that's going to "shift priorities" from the "original goal"?

 

[Inuhanyou]

GOOD. I would take the 1080p of the 60 FPS on console any day.



"Targetting"

Again, don't even say your "trying". Cause everyone can say they are "trying" for anything, it doesn't mean anything when it comes to practice. Unit was "targeting" 1080p 60fps on both consoles at one point, even though it was a blatant lie because ubisoft never targets 60fps to begin with.

Don't state something unless you know for sure you can hold to it through development.

 

[StevieP]

Again, don't even say your "trying". Cause everyone can say they are "trying" for anything, it doesn't mean anything when it comes to practice.

Don't state something unless you know for sure you can hold to it through development.

Why not? You give the Warriors ammo to say "this is how great console games look because of how powerful they are. That's why last light and uncharted 4 look so good at 60fps. John Carmack Yu metal the king is back."

 

[Smash88]

All very valid points. I have one to add.

- Some people (like me / my brother who have been gaming our entire lives) cannot see a difference between 30 and 60 FPS, therefore there is no value (for everyone) in having 60FPS. It adds nothing. However, everyone can see better visuals and higher resolutions so that does have value for everyone.

I really can't tell if you are being serious right now.

 

[Pankratous]

I really can't tell if you are being serious right now.

Why wouldn't I be being serious? I'm not the first person on GAF to say they can't see a difference. Whoopee for you if you can, but I can't. So for me, 30FPS is, as per my first post "awesome".

 

[viveks86]

This is weird. It seemed to be running at 60 at PSX!

 

[Aces&Eights]

30fps is fine with me. I think everyone sometimes forgets that the PS4 is a $400 console. It's not a miracle machine.

This. As 60 is the best, in my opinion, current gen systems are going to struggle to produce it on games that have lots of action and open worlds. It is what it is and anyone who absolutely can't live with 30fps needs to buy a PC.

 

[StevieP]

This is weird. It seemed to be running at 60 at PSX!

Did you see them put a disc in the ps4? lol

 

[viveks86]

Did you see them put a disc in the ps4? lol

Lol. Didn't bother to play it, but definitely seemed to run pretty smooth at 60. Quite surprised by this news.

 

[Shredderi]

Lol. Didn't bother to play it, but definitely seemed to run pretty smooth at 60. Quite surprised by this news.

Would be kinda weird for them to have it run on pc in a playstation event. Maybe it was just a really stable 30fps which gave it "the feel of 60fp"

 

[SuperEpicGuy]

I don't get why people are unhappy, this means that more effort was put into graphics and that it'll look even more glorious at 60 fps on pc.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Why not? You give the Warriors ammo to say "this is how great console games look because of how powerful they are. That's why last light and uncharted 4 look so good at 60fps. John Carmack Yu metal the king is back."

I think everyone who should be taken seriously knows these consoles are budget hardware being sold at budget prices, let's cut the BS. Nobody should be expecting any type of miracles.

At the same time, i understand that games can obviously look and play great on them with a team that knows what they are doing with the right priorities, so don't get it confused with me saying its an excuse that because they are below high end they can't have impressive games.

All i'm asking is for games developers to not be misleading on their product. I understand things change, but there's that and there's simply being irresponsible.

 

[Momentary]

I don't get why people are unhappy, this means that more effort was put into graphics and that it'll look even more glorious at 60 fps on pc.

I'm very excited about this.

 

[Cave Johnson]

I don't get why people are unhappy, this means that more effort was put into graphics and that it'll look even more glorious at 60 fps on pc.

Or they can design for the PC and scale appropriately for consoles. They did it with Metro, The Witcher 2 and Crysis 1. I don't so how targeted at 60fps in consoles will affect the graphical potential on PC unless you're using said console as base. Which would be very silly at point considering how much more simplistic it is to port across both systems compared to the last generation.

 

[kyser73]

This kind of apologist argument allows devs to pursue static visuals over playability or moving visuals. It is the ultimate victory of style over substance, the celebration of the superficial.

I think fewer people care about it because so many have grown up in a time where games rarely run at a fluid frame rate. Driveclub lacks a sense of speed, it's just not there, instead you get a growing sense of disconnect as the slow framerate loses the ability to translate a feeling of speed the faster the car goes. It's a fun enough game but past the 'ooh shiny!' there's no wow factor at all, it doesn't engage with the eyes the same way Burnout Paradise or Midnight Club 2 (Xbox version) did, on older, slower consoles.

 

[Fbh]

Make it locked 30 fps and I don't mind

 

[sleepykyo]

I don't get why people are unhappy, this means that more effort was put into graphics and that it'll look even more glorious at 60 fps on pc.

Not sure if serious or trolling. I'll play along and give the benefit of the doubt.

1. Not everyone has the hardware that'll play at 60fps.
2. The game will probably be balanced around 30fps (more like 24fps) rather 60fps.

 

[Moldiver]

Angry Joe streaming this on twitch at the moment.

 

[Chaplain]

Angry Joe streaming this on twitch at the moment.

Tons of screen tearing in Joe's stream. What version is he playing?

 

[Moldiver]

And go full screen, the twitch chat is pretty horendous.

 

[SapientWolf]

What the fuck am I reading? You couldn't be any more wrong if you tried. 30fps and a good sense of speed are not mutually exclusive. PGR3 3/4, Motorstorm, Split Second (on console), Forza Horizon and Forza Horizon 2 are just a few examples of 30fps racers that also have an excellent sense of speed. All you have to do is enter any DC thread, or type 'Driveclub' into YouTube to see how wrong you are.



Hahaha, Jesus, you are serious. What a crock of shit. The last part of your comment especially. You're confusing a sense of speed in-game, with the speed at which the frames are renewing on the screen.

It really depends on how you define the term "good sense of speed." 30fps racers don't have very convincing motion IMO, but they are obviously capable of presenting a situation where you are quickly traveling through the game world. On the other end of the spectrum, the motion in the F355 Challenge Sega arcade game was so realistic that I was afraid to put my foot outside of the cabinet. But the game didn't feel particularly fast. 60fps racers like Burnout and F-Zero have both a high sense of speed and convincing motion, which gives them a visceral thrill that's hard to replicate.

With Dying Light, a VR helmet and a high frame rate would give you the motion quality you need for maximum butt puckerage when you leap off a building.

 

[User 479360]

Cool. I'll be playing it regardless of its specs, because it's my type of game and I loved it at E3.

 

[Leb]

It really depends on how you define the term "good sense of speed." 30fps racers don't have very convincing motion IMO, but they are obviously capable of presenting a situation where you are quickly traveling through the game world. On the other end of the spectrum, the motion in the F355 Challenge Sega arcade game was so realistic that I was afraid to put my foot outside of the cabinet. But the game didn't feel particularly fast. 60fps racers like Burnout and F-Zero have both a high sense of speed and convincing motion, which gives them a visceral thrill that's hard to replicate.

With Dying Light, a VR helmet and a high frame rate would give you the motion quality you need for maximum butt puckerage when you leap off a building.

Based on our preliminary understanding of what does and doesn't work in VR, it seems like Dying Light, as it currently exists, would fall squarely in the "I just puked in my helmet" camp.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

So what exactly did they do during the delay? I imagine they wanted to rework somethings since the reveal and add content. I just want some details since I was merely okay with the game after watching some video before the delay.


BTW, I played TLOU at 30fps for the enhanced lighting.

 

[SapientWolf]

Based on our preliminary understanding of what does and doesn't work in VR, it seems like Dying Light, as it currently exists, would fall squarely in the "I just puked in my helmet" camp.

For a lot of people, yeah. But some people say that Mirror's Edge is better on the Rift.

http://kotaku.com/watch-us-play-mirror-s-edge-on-the-oculus-rift-1281103798

 

[Stealthcobra]

Plenty other games to play. If i even think for a second that parity bs was involved, I'm not supporting this product. Microsoft already has a indie parity policy, I'm sure they are putting pressure on devs for equivalent specs. Microsoft is just a horrible company and I'll never support any dev that does this. Awfully interesting how at the beginning of this gen 1080p/60 was more prevalent... Now I'm supposed to believe that a year later after devs have learned the system, the specs are getting worst instead of better? Bulllll..