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EA BUYS COLLEGE FOOTBALL
- Thread starter sonycowboy
- Start date
FrenchMovieTheme:
I'm sure they appreciated the way Sega Sammy/Take Two opened up the NFL market far wider than it had been before, reaching a new demographic of customer, and helped to sell far more NFL video game product in a year than had ever been sold before or will again.
Squirrel Killer
Member
Lazy8s said:
Actually, proving that even a stopped clock is right twice a day, I think FMT has a point, the NFL is fiercly protective of its image. However, I doubt that was the biggest factor in the NFL's decision to go for an exclusive license.
Licensing your IP is about two things; marketing and money. An IP holder would gladly license its brand to 20 licensees for $100 apiece (hypothetical figure used for clarity) assuming a certain level of quality. If the most an exclusive license would fetch is $200 or even $300, the IP holder is leaving money on the table by going exclusive. As soon as the amount someone will spend for an exclusive license (or spend plus cross-promotional efforts) exceeds the amount the combined non-exclusive licenses pull in, the situation reverses.
I think the NFL looked at the landscape of the NFL video game market, and saw that licensees were dropping like flies. NFL GameDay, NFL Blitz, NFL Quaterback Club, NFL Fever all dead to the Madden juggernaut, with NFL 2kX looking like it had one foot in the grave as well. In that situation, it was smart for the NFL to scam EA out of "exclusive license" money while there was still an exclusive license to award. Had 2kX not risen from the grave with the $20 price point, EA could've lowballed the NFL when license came up for renegotiation.
Similarly, MLB saw the demise of High Heat and Slugfest, and the bankruptcy of ASB's publisher, and started to look for an exclusive license before such a deal wouldn't be worth anything. They probably saw that Take2 just wanted to lock out EA, so they went with a cross-platform exclusive deal that wouldn't jeopardize their license money from Sony and Nintendo, but still pull in exclusive-like money from Take2.
Unfortunately, for the consumers, these deals suck all around. Whether you like EA's games, Take2's, or if you just prefer the best game overall. These deals ensure that everyone is pissed off (expect the three guys that like love Madden and MLB 2kX).
Reaching new demographics...? Sell far more NFL video games...? Exaggerate any?Lazy8s said:
From the NFL's perpective, they probably liked Take Two selling the games at $20... they get the same amount of money regardless if its $20 or $100. But they also recognised that that price was only put in place to get T2's foot in the door and that it wasn't going to last. Next year, were back to where we were. Had NFL 2k5 been as successful without being $20 (or had been of higher quality) I doubt we'd be in the situation we are today.
The NFL felt that it was safer/better for them to put all their eggs in EA basket. EA is the market leader, head-and-shoulders above the competition. Their brand wasn't built on bargain prices, they support all the platforms, and their quality is good and at least consistant. Do you think the NFL wants to threaten their #1 publisher on a series that may not hold up?
The way I see it, all of these companies were just using the NFL license to make money for themselves. It perfectly fair if the NFL decides to put restrictions on their property.
I wouldn't worry about EA dumping a platform(s) next-gen. They've been the most adamant multiplatform developer EVER. They didn't support the DC because Sega pissed them off; EA's relationship with the current 1st party publishers are good. You should be more worried about Take Two pulling that stunt.
EA has great leverage, even without these exclusive deals. If they did decide to go to one platform, the others would still lose Madden. That alone would be a major blow. But remember that the NFL deal excludes 1st party publishers, so everybody can still get there NFL fix.
jobber
Would let Tony Parker sleep with his wife
JJConrad said:
Only people who buy Madden cause their friends have it is why EA outsells 2K. They're scared of trying something new. That's why the price dropped happened. Build a fanbase and expand there. EA looked at the numbers for the past 3 years and saw each year 2K had more people buying it and less people buying Madden.
Jared Goodwin
Member
Ramirez said:
This isn't about some dick-measuring contest of VC's sports games versus EA's. This isn't about "EA is teh eville zomg." It's about EA FUCKING YOU instead of competing with VC (or anyone else, for that matter.)
Sure, you'll gladly pay $60 for Madden. Thing is, when VC was competing with them this last year, they slashed the price to $30 (or $40, I forget.) IF YOU'RE NOT PAYING ATTENTION, THAT'S A DIRECT BENEFIT FOR FANS OF MADDEN. Personally, should I desire to buy a Madden game and happen to have $60, I'd rather be able to afford both Madden and a copy of, like, Phantom Dust or Alien Hominid or something.
For all the damage control, nobody has come up with a reason that this deal, or any exclusive deal, is good for gamers, just reasons it's supposed to be less bad than some (me included) make it out to be.
Jared Goodwin said:
That was a point I was trying to make. I completely understand that VC's product wasn't in the same class as EA's, but consumers benefitted from their competition because they aggressively priced their software. You got a better deal on Madden because VC and Take Two were doing what they could to get a piece of the pie.
Like I said, I'm not a big sports gamer, but I don't think that EA's actions are insignificant to me and that is why I'm bothered. The worry that I have is how far EA will take their efforts to stop competition elsewhere. There are signs that they are even willing to take a page out of MS's playbook and just buy out their competition (has everyone forgot about their little stab at UbiSoft earlier in the year?).
D
Deleted member 284
Unconfirmed Member
Wellington said:
Keep the Nintendo fans out of this. This appears to be a virtual jock thing that doesn't sell all that well on Nintendo platforms. In fact to the outsider, it looks like a bunch of Anti EA'ers/Pro Sega fans that are bitching the loudest.
Jared,you just don't get it do you?I don't care if the price drops faster,Im gonna be buying it on day one,30,40,50,60 I don't care...but what you fail to see is that this deal was gonna go through regardless of what any dumbass poster on a message board thinks,the gaming FOOTBALL FANS are just happy that the liscense went to the right developer.
I mean it's not that hard to grasp,who cares if the VC prices were causing the prices of Madden to drop,one of the companies was gonna get this deal regardless,you people are dealing with too many "what if..." comments.
I mean it's not that hard to grasp,who cares if the VC prices were causing the prices of Madden to drop,one of the companies was gonna get this deal regardless,you people are dealing with too many "what if..." comments.
Squirrel Killer
Member
Ramirez, the point I think people are trying to make, and you flying right over, is:
Would you rather:
1) Purchase Madden 2006 on release day for $60
2) Purchase Madden 2006 on release day for $30
3) Have rusty barbed wire stuck in your nether regions (ie be forced to play NFL 2k5)
Sure, you'll buy Madden 2006 for $60, $70, $80, whatever EA deems is the correct amount to extract from your wallet on release day, but just think, if Take2's football game was still around to put a price pressure on EA, you could buy 2 copies of Madden 2006!
Would you rather:
1) Purchase Madden 2006 on release day for $60
2) Purchase Madden 2006 on release day for $30
3) Have rusty barbed wire stuck in your nether regions (ie be forced to play NFL 2k5)
Sure, you'll buy Madden 2006 for $60, $70, $80, whatever EA deems is the correct amount to extract from your wallet on release day, but just think, if Take2's football game was still around to put a price pressure on EA, you could buy 2 copies of Madden 2006!
Jared Goodwin
Member
Ramirez said:
Exclusivity deals are the problem. The fact that EA in particular is getting them is not, although EA is being especially obnoxious in pursuing them.
There is evidence that Madden 2006 would have been released at $30 or $40 given competition from VC. All of EA's other sports games came down in price, even at launch, when VC was releasing games for $20. Madden simply didn't get the benefit of this because it launched before VC's $20 pricing scheme went into effect.
"What if" is important because the state of things, right now, is...well, I'm repeating myself, but EA IS FUCKING YOU and you're justifying it.
Someone needs to make a SFW "EA IS FUCKING YOU" image macro.
This is no surprise as EA has been basically trying to eliminate all competition. I am not too concerned with their College Football Franchise as they have never had competition in for like ever :lol and yet they still have managed to make the best football game with the best commentary of any sports game that I have played to date. I will be in line for both of their football games this year as usual even though I am concerned like the rest of you guys and gals who remember what happened to EA SPorts games when they had no competition back during the Playstation days. I bet EA buys up the rights to water and air soon 
I still find it extremely amusing that you are even arguing this,you've already stated you don't care about sports sims,stick to the Blitz threads.
Of course everyone would love for it to cost 30 bucks,but why the fuck do you all keep skipping over the fact that THE DEAL WAS GONNA HAPPEN REGARDLESS!The NFL was shopping the license around,so quit with all of this competition bullshit,if the NFL is offering the license you better damn believe someone is gonna buy it,had Take 2 got it,you people wouldn't even be here arguing,you'd be jizzing on yourself because the evil EA lost a franchise,no matter the fact that you don't even care about the damn game in the first place!
Oh and how is EA fucking me?By giving me a hell of a football sim year after year?Meanwhile Take 2 is shipping out half assed,bug ridden,non sim playing pieces of shit,I would say that is fucking me.
Seriously,how many sports games did you people even buy this year?I bought every single sport game available from both EA and Take 2,as did FMT,Wellie,and every other persons opinion who actually matters.
EA's detractors are arguing BUSINESS PRINCIPLE, not upon the quality of the football titles. What's so freaking hard to understand? The lack of competition will have negative repercussions, including the price and the quality of future releases. The NFL license is essential for success in the football simulation market. Buying out the license is akin to patenting the ability to jump in platformers. All other titles in that genre except for ones by the patent holder are extremely limited fter that.
And I personally don't know how some of you absolutely do not care that EA can and will raise the prices on you, not necessarily because the product required that much more to make, but because they have the exclusive rights to the license and can use it to fatten their revenues.
And I personally don't know how some of you absolutely do not care that EA can and will raise the prices on you, not necessarily because the product required that much more to make, but because they have the exclusive rights to the license and can use it to fatten their revenues.
Ramirez said:
To be honest, that doesn't entirely help your case. As you already stated, it doesn't matter who releases what since the diehard fans will buy them all. The less "hardcore", more selective buyer (or however you want to phrase/spin it) is arguably more affected by the lack of choice.
Jared Goodwin
Member
Ramirez said:
These sort of deals make games like Blitz less likely or impossible. Midway's baseball game in the Blitz style was killed dead by Take Two's exclusive deal.
Okay, let's use short words for this one.
EXCLUSIVE DEALS ARE BAD FOR GAMERS.
EA IS MAKING EXCLUSIVE DEALS.
YOU ARE A GAMER.
EA IS FUCKING YOU.
Take Two is fucking baseball fans, too, and they're an evil, destructive empire as well. It's just hard to get as angry about them with EA (and others, like Vivendi, but that's not really related to sports games) doing
By chasing that "half assed,bug ridden,non sim playing pieces of shit" (which is a fairly debatable claim, but I'm not really qualified to debate it and it's moot in any case) out of the market with exclusive deals instead of competing on price and quality, EA can keep setting the price of incremental upgrades and roster updates at $50.
FOR THE FIRST TIME IN TWO GENERATIONS OF HARDWARE, A COMPANY CHALLENGED THE ASSUMPTION THAT YOU CAN CHARGE FULL AAA PRICE FOR INCREMENTAL UPGRADES AND ROSTER UPDATES AND EA CHASED THEM OUT OF THE MOST LUCRATIVE SPORTS MARKET INSTEAD OF COMPETING.
It sucks that Take Two is following suit in baseball, but please don't forget the above.
The opinions of people who want a PC NASCAR game don't matter? The opinions of people who want a non-sim NFL game don't matter? Exclusive deals end up hurting gamers who want games that aren't anything like the exclusive licensor's offerings, so you'll find a fair number of people with relevant opinions who no longer purchase sports games.
On top of this, THIS ISN'T A DICK-MEASURING CONTEST BETWEEN VC'S AND EA'S GAMES. Even if EA's games were flawless perfection and VC's games were ports of Atari 2600 Football, these exclusive deals would still be bad for gamers, because of the positive effects of competition. When EA makes these sort of exclusive deals, EA IS FUCKING YOU.
EA is not fucking me for the last time by giving me a quality product :lol
You've already said you're not qualified to talk about the games,so yea that about wraps it up for me.I'm not here to talk about the business side,I play the games,and EA stomps a mudhole in the other companies ass when it comes to sports.
You've already said you're not qualified to talk about the games,so yea that about wraps it up for me.I'm not here to talk about the business side,I play the games,and EA stomps a mudhole in the other companies ass when it comes to sports.
Jared Goodwin
Member
Ramirez said:
"EA is charging me $50 for a game that could easily be $20 less but I don't care!"
Ramirez said:
It does help. It certainly helps to qualify your opinion on differences between developers and quality. Conversely, you're admitting to accepting/buying whatever the developers put out, regardless of quality (or in FMT's case, regardless of price). It's a minor issue, but a valid one...
Anyway, I don't have much vested in this argument, as I'm not a yearly subscriber to most franchises. While I prefer more choices, I already had that taken from me for years as a GC owner. :lol
I guess it's more of an issue now that I do have a PS2.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
(hunter) Goodwin, if you are going to use the "the game could be made for cheaper and they aren't selling it for cheaper!" case, then EVERY GAME COMPANY on the market is "FUCKING YOU!"
why does sega sell super monkey ball on xbox for $30?
why does nintendo sell re-releases of NES games for $20 on GBA?
why does capcom sell Capcom Fighting Evolution for $50 (or whatever it was)?
why? because they are a business and they need to make money. im not saying i am overly excited about paying $60 for a game. what i am saying is that $10 isn't going to break the bank for me. neither is $20 or $30 extra for that matter. then you say well its about principle, well what principle is that? here is my "priniciple": i will pay top dollar for top games. i consider the madden football franchise to be the best on the planet. for madden 2005 alone i have played nearly 300 games (modest estimate) online and against buddies at home. that is (give or take) 100 hours of gameplay. do you think i got my moneys worth? you tell me another game that lasts you CONSISTENTLY for a 6-9 month period that was $50. i can't personally name one for myself. so, no, EA is not fucking me. EA is giving me a proven product which i get an incredible value for (considering how much i play it). if you feel EA is fucking YOU, then dont buy their games. join the million gamer boycott march and hit EA where it hurts, their pocketbook. but as for myself personally, i have no problems w/ EA regarding madden
why does sega sell super monkey ball on xbox for $30?
why does nintendo sell re-releases of NES games for $20 on GBA?
why does capcom sell Capcom Fighting Evolution for $50 (or whatever it was)?
why? because they are a business and they need to make money. im not saying i am overly excited about paying $60 for a game. what i am saying is that $10 isn't going to break the bank for me. neither is $20 or $30 extra for that matter. then you say well its about principle, well what principle is that? here is my "priniciple": i will pay top dollar for top games. i consider the madden football franchise to be the best on the planet. for madden 2005 alone i have played nearly 300 games (modest estimate) online and against buddies at home. that is (give or take) 100 hours of gameplay. do you think i got my moneys worth? you tell me another game that lasts you CONSISTENTLY for a 6-9 month period that was $50. i can't personally name one for myself. so, no, EA is not fucking me. EA is giving me a proven product which i get an incredible value for (considering how much i play it). if you feel EA is fucking YOU, then dont buy their games. join the million gamer boycott march and hit EA where it hurts, their pocketbook. but as for myself personally, i have no problems w/ EA regarding madden
Argyle:
JJConrad:
Appreciation hasn't replaced money as the currency of business.
JJConrad:
Their value pricing resulted in more than two million extra NFL licensed product being sold during the premier months than before by tapping the price conscious demographic -- the late-generation adopters, the value line shoppers, the undecided consumers who might not have otherwise experimented with a football game, the repeat purchasers who decided to now try two different brands, etc.
2K5 was relatively high in quality. It was widely critically acclaimed for its solid package and appreciated for its kinetic pace. Like any of the other football games, it has some play balance-breaking design issues depending on how its used.
Such a change in policy is in bad faith when companies have already spent years and millions of dollars building a product platform for NFL games based upon NFL/NFLPA-licensed likenesses, tendencies, audio commentaries, etc from extensive capture and recording work.
Amused_To_Death
Member
It's almost comical to see to what lengths some of you go to defend what essentially is terrible news for gamers and anyone who cares about quality and innovation in sports gaming. The T2 deal is as bad for baseball, but at least they left a window open for console makers to put out their own baseball games.
What most of you fail to appreciate is that it's not just about price for Madden and NCAA going up, but EA has officially eliminated your chance of ever playing another football game. It could have been possible for VC, Midway, or some obscure developer to come out with a killer football game that might be completely revolutionary. Thanks to these exclusive deals, this will never happen. So it's all up to EA to provide you with all the innovation and cutting edge play you desire, and frankly, they haven't shown a great track record for doing so...
EA paid billions for these deals; someone is going to pay for it. They might hike the price on consumers, though it's a bit risky, to make up for the licensing costs, but they'll most likely cut costs internally by downsizing their teams at Tiburon to maximize their profit margins on these games. With no competition, there will not be a need to pour millions, every year on huge teams and there will not be much incentive to add new and innovative features year in and year out. Also, there will never discount Madden, or NCAA ever again, until the next version comes out. Casual gamers will not fork $60 for games and additional costs for roster updates, etc...Eventually the market will shrink to only those hardcore gamers who are, like some of you, have no objection to letting EA rape their wallets.
These companies are making business decisions, and they can care less about gamers. They're going to look at their budgets every year and they'll want to squeeze every possible penny out of these deals. If the market doesn't allow them to raise prices, they're going to look at cutting costs somewhere, they're not going to put out a money losing product. As a sport gamer, I stand to be the biggest loser.
I am willing to place a bet that the NBA sports games will be light years ahead of Madden and NCAA football in terms of features, innovations, and gameplay in just a couple of years. Only then, will the fanboys and the companies themselves realize what a travesty these exclusive deals have been...That's what competition does, take a look at any indusutry where fierce competition exists and you'll see great products and great prices.
EA can sign all the deals it can, the boycott is working...For the first time in its history, EA sales have dropped instead of growing. People are becoming much more educated and aware of what makes a good game...Slapping that EA logo on a game no longer guarantees great sales; it's almost becoming a liability, to a certain extent...
What most of you fail to appreciate is that it's not just about price for Madden and NCAA going up, but EA has officially eliminated your chance of ever playing another football game. It could have been possible for VC, Midway, or some obscure developer to come out with a killer football game that might be completely revolutionary. Thanks to these exclusive deals, this will never happen. So it's all up to EA to provide you with all the innovation and cutting edge play you desire, and frankly, they haven't shown a great track record for doing so...
EA paid billions for these deals; someone is going to pay for it. They might hike the price on consumers, though it's a bit risky, to make up for the licensing costs, but they'll most likely cut costs internally by downsizing their teams at Tiburon to maximize their profit margins on these games. With no competition, there will not be a need to pour millions, every year on huge teams and there will not be much incentive to add new and innovative features year in and year out. Also, there will never discount Madden, or NCAA ever again, until the next version comes out. Casual gamers will not fork $60 for games and additional costs for roster updates, etc...Eventually the market will shrink to only those hardcore gamers who are, like some of you, have no objection to letting EA rape their wallets.
These companies are making business decisions, and they can care less about gamers. They're going to look at their budgets every year and they'll want to squeeze every possible penny out of these deals. If the market doesn't allow them to raise prices, they're going to look at cutting costs somewhere, they're not going to put out a money losing product. As a sport gamer, I stand to be the biggest loser.
I am willing to place a bet that the NBA sports games will be light years ahead of Madden and NCAA football in terms of features, innovations, and gameplay in just a couple of years. Only then, will the fanboys and the companies themselves realize what a travesty these exclusive deals have been...That's what competition does, take a look at any indusutry where fierce competition exists and you'll see great products and great prices.
EA can sign all the deals it can, the boycott is working...For the first time in its history, EA sales have dropped instead of growing. People are becoming much more educated and aware of what makes a good game...Slapping that EA logo on a game no longer guarantees great sales; it's almost becoming a liability, to a certain extent...
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
i see your point amused, but contemplate this: "EA" doesn't make madden. EA isn't one giant developer who makes everything under their umbrella. EA has development teams who have employees who need jobs. what do you think is going to happen when EA gives a lot of money to Tiburon to make madden 200X, and the game is critically panned or gets a lot of customer complaints/dissatisfaction? that's right, EA is going to give the madden duties to another one of its developers. so it is not just competition based on EA vs. 3rd party X. it is also an internal competition to keep your team relevant and afloat.
ive said it before ill say it again, no competition stinks and no one is going to argue that on its very basic level. but to automatically dismiss all future EA football games as "lacking innovation and drive" is a joke, especially when it is (usually) coming from people who say madden is just a yearly roster update anyways. if that is how people honestly feel now (when it is clearly not), how can it get any worse? how can a sports game get any worse than being the same exact game as the year before with simple roster changes (which is what some people claim ALREADY happens)?
the answer is those people are full of shit and they know damn well EA innovates and pushes the envelope. we are already seeing signs of that with the leaked information of Vision Passing. I'm fairly confident we will all be impressed with the game EA puts out this year and in the future (on the innovation front and otherwise)
it never guaranteed great sales. dont you get it yet? real football fans love madden football. i'm not saying if you dont like madden you aren't a real football fan, but it is clear to me that madden is considered by THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT MATTER (the sports gaming fans) to be the best football game ever created. this has been proven time and again over the past 15 years. when you throw out crap like "OOOOOOOH here comes madden 2005 with a madden 2006 logo slapped on it!" it just makes you sound foolish as i can already see your line of thinking, and i already know you have little to no knowledge about madden
ive said it before ill say it again, no competition stinks and no one is going to argue that on its very basic level. but to automatically dismiss all future EA football games as "lacking innovation and drive" is a joke, especially when it is (usually) coming from people who say madden is just a yearly roster update anyways. if that is how people honestly feel now (when it is clearly not), how can it get any worse? how can a sports game get any worse than being the same exact game as the year before with simple roster changes (which is what some people claim ALREADY happens)?
the answer is those people are full of shit and they know damn well EA innovates and pushes the envelope. we are already seeing signs of that with the leaked information of Vision Passing. I'm fairly confident we will all be impressed with the game EA puts out this year and in the future (on the innovation front and otherwise)
it never guaranteed great sales. dont you get it yet? real football fans love madden football. i'm not saying if you dont like madden you aren't a real football fan, but it is clear to me that madden is considered by THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT MATTER (the sports gaming fans) to be the best football game ever created. this has been proven time and again over the past 15 years. when you throw out crap like "OOOOOOOH here comes madden 2005 with a madden 2006 logo slapped on it!" it just makes you sound foolish as i can already see your line of thinking, and i already know you have little to no knowledge about madden
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
what was the point in trying in the first place? you don't play sim sports games, you said it yourself. stick to blitz/non-sports threads, or threads where you can have some meaningful input
Jared Goodwin
Member
FrenchMovieTheme said:
Tangent time: "Exclusive deals are (not) bad for gamers" is getting to be a dead topic.
Sports games aren't worth $50 a year.
The improvements are incremental, and the main benefits tend to be balance tweaking and roster updates. Even if you feel that an individual sports game is worth $50 (or more!) to you, or that even the updates are worth $50 to you, you, as an owner of the previous year's game, are recieving less in the way of quality-of-effort-put-into-the-product (a movie buff might call it "dollars on the screen") than gamers in other genres. $20 might be too low, but $50 is too high.
Let's say I'm nearly ignorant of football video games (to pick a sport), but reasonably familiar with the game itself and the NFL. How are you going to sell me on Madden 2005 over Madden 2004? Or Madden 2004 over Madden 2003, to use an even worse example?
This isn't limited to Madden, or to EA, or to football. I'm just pissed off at EA for strangling one of the first significant moves away from the $50-a-year model.
Jared Goodwin
Member
Ramirez said:
One could say that it's starting to. The NBA resisted pressure to grant an exclusive license, and the NHL is reportedly considering the next year's licensing.
Jared Goodwin
Member
Ramirez said:
Yeah, it sucks. However, the NASCAR license sunsets sometime in the next couple of years, if I recall, and the NHL will be deciding this year. It's not like the NFL is the only game in town.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
that is an opinion. and if it is YOUR opinion, then buy madden 2006, 2009, 2012, etc. no one is forcing you to buy a football game each year. but there are some of us who will gladly pay $50+ per year
"incremental" improvements are subjective. let me tell you something: when EA fixed the jet packing receivers from madden 2004 --> 2005, that was not an "incremental improvement". it completely changed the way the game was played from an offensive perspective. when EA added defensive hot routing, this was not an incremental improvement. this was a major gameplay tool that was added. same with hitstick.
how about we step outside of football. lets go to a game like zelda. what changed between Zelda Ocarina of Time and Zelda wind waker? weren't there just cosmetic "incremental" changes made? what i am saying is that to a casual (and that is being generous) action/adventure fan, that is what i see it as. i understand if you are a casual sports fan you will see yearly updates as not worth it. but hear me now and believe me later, there are major improvements each year. this is coming from probably the most anal sports gaming fan ever
i've already given you examples above, but let me rundown a quick list of why madden 2005 is superior to madden 2004:
1. superior db play
2. defensive hot routes
3. hit stick on defense
4. addition of online leagues
5. elimination of jet packing
this isn't even touching on the franchise mode improvements, but you get the point. if you dont think that is worth $50 you are probably not a football fanatic, and that is fine
Jared Goodwin
Member
FrenchMovieTheme said:
A claim I was defending below. My point isn't that nobody should buy it at that price, simply that game makers should be offering better value for your $50.
I'm also not 100% on this one, but it's good for discussion.
But wouldn't that be a bugfix/balance modification, the sort of thing PC games get for free, all the time? I don't recall paying for Starcraft upgrades.
Entirely new story/scenario. Entirely new graphics engine and style. Entirely new...well, game.
Yearly updates on sports games feel too much like paying the full $50 for Ura Zelda the year after Ocarina, to steal your analogy.
Hmm. So you're suggesting that each year the sports games should be considered on their own, instead of discounting the overlap with the last year's version (because the last year's version is budget bin material by now)?
Aren't 1 and 5 bugfix and balance adjustments, though? (Forgive my ignorance; American football games aren't my forte.)
I'm not seeing how these upgrades on a largely same package mean the game is $50 worth. It doesn't help that I'm not defining "$50 worth," though.
Well, let's move past this adversarial stuff. What's the most you would have paid for Madden 2005? What's the least amount of upgrade/improvement you'd pay $50 for?
Jared, the "value" discussion already played out:
http://forums.gaming-age.com/showthread.php?t=41051
No point in rehashing arguments, though if there's something we overlooked, feel free to comment.
http://forums.gaming-age.com/showthread.php?t=41051
No point in rehashing arguments, though if there's something we overlooked, feel free to comment.
FrenchMovieTheme said:
I'm have been for a sports gaming fan over two decades, starting with that shitty RealSports Football game on the Atari 2600. Madden, as a series, certainly has had the most consistent record of excellence year in and year out. In many years past, each incremental release was the best football game ever created. There is no debating this fact. Now when it comes down to the individual releases year to year, there is room for debate, and this year's version was in fact worse than the competition's in some areas.
Recently, the actual amount of meaningful feature increase in Madden from year to year seems to be getting weaker as the years progress, especially on the in-game presentation front, and that was when they had competitors. You listed five improvements Madden made but honestly they could have done a lot better than that. Graphically, the players have looked silly for years but they haven't fixed that.
I just don't see how having no competition now will help result in a better Madden game. It can only hurt it.
I like how this Jared dude is saying the exact same thing (literally) every page or so. What it boils down to is this -- even though the EA games dropped in price this year, Madden itself would NEVER launch at 30 bucks or anything less than the absolute premium of current titles. Sure, if you wanted to wait 3 or 4 months, you could get it cheaper -- but what die-hard football fan is going to do that? None of them.
Likewise, I dont believe ESPN necessarily introduced football games to many people -- I think you just had people who bought Madden also, pick it up. If you look at a few years ago, NFL 2k3 sold almost a million copies on the PS2. It was only 2004's titles that completely bombed. The cheaper price may have brought back the older consumers and brought in some Madden players, but I doubt the vast majority of purchasers were new to the genre.
Likewise, I dont believe ESPN necessarily introduced football games to many people -- I think you just had people who bought Madden also, pick it up. If you look at a few years ago, NFL 2k3 sold almost a million copies on the PS2. It was only 2004's titles that completely bombed. The cheaper price may have brought back the older consumers and brought in some Madden players, but I doubt the vast majority of purchasers were new to the genre.
Do tell,what would those be?Presentation is the only thing I can think of and as I've stated many times,I'm skipping the fluff by the second game.
You wanna peg Madden on not changing much,how about ESPN?It actually gets worse every year!DB AI was 10 times worse this year than the year before,RBs are still way too overpowered, run blocking still sucks, the running animation is so bad its laughable.I could go on for days with this game.You guys wanna talk about Madden just being a yearly roster update,it just shows me that you either didn't play the other football games much or just don't have a clue as to what makes a sim football game work.I mean one of your main complaints about Madden is its graphics,which tells me you care more about eye candy than actual gameplay,Maddens graphics are fine and the animations are a hell of alot more lifelike than ESPN's, the only thing Madden needs to add is the ability for more than one tackler once an animation starts and the ability to slide through the line on running plays.
BlackClouds
Member
Man, the EA/Madden fanboys here are rabid. The lower price of the ESPN games was almost like an ephiphany. 20-30$ is a pretty fair price for rather mundane yearly updates these sports titles have. Lots of bug fixes, and balance tweaking, ofcourse given fancy names as if these are significant improvements. Taken in, gamed if you will, willfully. 'Tis a shame. Thankfully I don't believe in the Madden god,as he has forsaken me.
Ramirez said:
Graphics are a big part of every game, and if done right it can really add to the NFL realism of the underlying gameplay. The real reason we all play football games is we want to have the total football experience: the way it plays, the way it looks, the way it sounds, everything. We want to agonize over the same tactics the real coaches use. We want to undergo the same struggles to properly execute plays that real players have. We want players that look like the real thing. We want commentary that reflects a good TV broadcast. All of it.
Neglecting presentation is neglecting the football experience.
Amused_To_Death
Member
Meier said:
If Madden is only NFL football game available, why would they drop it price 3-4 months later? Before ESPN made a dent last year, Madden sold for a premium for many months after release. Madden will now stay at a premium and people who want to play the game have no option but to fork the cash, or not play at all. It's that simple. The days of discounting are long gone. EA paid over $1 billion for these licensing deals, forget about buying a game at a discount until the next iteration comes out.
Meier said:
Not true. EA said that only 1/3 of those who purchased Madden bought ESPN 2K5. That means 2/3 of the 4-5 million 2K5 games sold were brand new gamers. The 2K5 version actually increased the size of the market by introducing many casual gamers to Football.
This new deal will actually shrink the football market over the next few years as the increasing prices that are most likely coming will drive casual gamers to play other games, or buy Madden once every two or three years. The NFL is too stupid, or too greedy, to not have realized the potential for increasing their overall market share by having competition and tiered-level pricing. The NFL is going to get its cut, it's guaranteed! However, EA needs to expand the size of the football market to keep up with the increased cost and maintain its profitability. It's simple economics. They have to increase prices, cut their development costs, and put out more football games a year. The hardcore gamers might sustain them for a couple of years, but this strategy will eventually backfire on all parties, big time. NBA did it the right way. They got their cut, and made sure their brand is not going to be diluted by letting Midway and EA split the arcade games, and still making sure there's a healthy competition among all companies.