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EA talks about mid-cycle console upgrades (a la PS4K, XB1.5, etc)

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
So, this is probably the last thing in their fiscal call people might find interesting.

They basically note that they would be cross-compatible with the existing platforms (pretty obvious) and that they don't see it as an issue for the company since their tech will scale to it pretty easily.

They also mention Microsoft repeatedly in addition to Sony, though also note "if they do something at E3 or sometime in the year", implying maybe Microsoft isn't ready to show theirs yet (or are just trying to be as vague as possible about unannounced products).

EA said:
Michael Hickey - The Benchmark Co. LLC

Hey, guys, thanks for taking my questions. Great quarter. Blake, you gave 25 million units growth for, I think, calendar year 2016. I'm curious if your assumptions, if you were expecting ease of new consoles this year, any price cuts of existing hardware? Or maybe any other sort of key considerations to that estimate? And then, I realize obviously you can't announce any new hardware plans from your partners, but there has been sort of wide speculation that you have a mid-cycle upgrade coming. And I was curious if you could sort of shape for us why a mid-cycle upgrade could be positive for the industry. And also if there is any potential development expense to developing games in 4K. Thanks guys.

Blake J. Jorgensen - Chief Financial Officer & Executive Vice President

I can't tell you a lot about what Microsoft or Sony or other console makers plans are. I think we've all seen some of the discounting that's been going on in the industry both through the holidays and post holidays. And there is continued aggressive bundling across the industry. And I think all of that acts to continue to drive people into consoles. I think the other thing that's important to remember is there are very few Gen 3 titles being still made. Most of the new titles that we're talking about as well as the industry is talking about are Gen 4-only, and that is a – will clearly start to push people to ultimately buy a new console if they've resisted, because they've had a choice to play a game on either Gen 4 [sic, presumably means Gen 3] or Gen 4.

In terms of any mid-cycle upgrades, once again I can't predict. But what I can tell you is that what was heard I think publicly from the console makers is they're realizing that the compatibility issue across consoles is an important consumer issue. And as Microsoft has shown, they've tried to do with some backward compatibility on to older titles and new titles. I think that's going to be an important part of what a mid-cycle might look like if there is one, which removes a lot of the risk associated with what we've seen historically with console cycles. We don't spend a lot of time worrying about it, because we feel like our ability to develop for whatever new technology comes, the risk of that's been minimized because we've moved towards one single engine, Frostbite. And we're able to port that to whatever platform or point that to whatever platform is evolving or is upgraded.

In addition, our business model is so much more diverse now than it has been historically, that the notion of a console cycle becomes somewhat irrelevant in our ability to generate strong earnings and cash flow. So we'll all be interested to see where Microsoft and Sony come out if they do something at E3 or sometime in the year to come, but we're excited about the continued growth in the business and not afraid of a cycle change if that was to occur.
Source: http://seekingalpha.com/article/397...-results-earnings-call-transcript?part=single
 

etta

my hard graphic balls
Just how late can Microsoft wait before having to send out devkits?
Could they just demand that this holiday's titles only increase resolution on the newer tech, so as to minimize the time needed to work on the devkits? Maybe they want no leaks until E3?
 

Jonboy

Member
I think it's going to be great for the industry as it will essentially eliminate the issue of backward compatibility, which seems to be a topic of conversation with the start of every new generation. Interesting to see that he alludes to that when talking about MS and their solution this gen to backwards compatibility.

Imagine a future where there's no such thing as a PS3/PS4/PS5 game, but instead there are just PlayStation games that run at different resolutions/framerates/have better effects based on the system-tier you own. I would guess both Sony and MS see this as a way to increase the hardware they sell b/c in 10 years you could have a $100 PS4 sitting on the shelves, a $200 PS4K, and a $400 PS5 that all play the same games.
 

ps3ud0

Member
I think it's going to be great for the industry as it will essentially eliminate the issue of backward compatibility, which seems to be a topic of conversation with the start of every new generation. Interesting to see that he alludes to that when talking about MS and their solution this gen to backward's compatibility.

Imagine a future where there's no such thing as a PS3/PS4/PS5 game, but instead there are just PlayStation games that run at different resolutions/framerates/have better effects based on the system-tier you own. I would guess both Sony and MS see this as a way to increase the hardware they sell b/c in 10 years you could have a $100 PS4 sitting on the shelves, a $200 PS4K, and a $400 PS5 that all play the same games.
Forward compatibility isnt all its cracked up to be, fine if that is only a concern within a generation.

ps3ud0 8)
 
I think it's going to be great for the industry as it will essentially eliminate the issue of backward compatibility, which seems to be a topic of conversation with the start of every new generation. Interesting to see that he alludes to that when talking about MS and their solution this gen to backwards compatibility.

Imagine a future where there's no such thing as a PS3/PS4/PS5 game, but instead there are just PlayStation games that run at different resolutions/framerates/have better effects based on the system-tier you own. I would guess both Sony and MS see this as a way to increase the hardware they sell b/c in 10 years you could have a $100 PS4 sitting on the shelves, a $200 PS4K, and a $400 PS5 that all play the same games.

It also helps retail. Publishers are already preferring digital, but only having to have one game version on the shelf that is instead differentiated by the console/patches/etc. helps distribution. I'm confident that devs can adapt to the differences in power. They already make PC games that scale, after all.

Why does EA keep saying gen 3? What's their problem with gens prior to PS1/N64?

3D era vs. 2D era, essentially.
 
Blake's answer is definitely well thought out in the sense that he talks a lot on the subject without really saying anything.

I thought this was an interesting quote:
In addition, our business model is so much more diverse now than it has been historically, that the notion of a console cycle becomes somewhat irrelevant in our ability to generate strong earnings and cash flow. So we'll all be interested to see where Microsoft and Sony come out if they do something at E3 or sometime in the year to come, but we're excited about the continued growth in the business and not afraid of a cycle change if that was to occur.
EA has a strong foundation in their sports franchises that will continue to generate money regardless of console generation, on top of the fact that Battlefield seems to grow in popularity with every title, and their continued partnership on Star Wars games are almost guaranteed money makers.


Why does EA keep saying gen 3? What's their problem with gens prior to PS1/N64?

N64 and PS1 was the first true 3D console generation. Though, I'm not sure why EA labels that as Gen 1, when they had games on the prior generation consoles.
 
So he's saying they don't really know but it's fine because they have a nice engine and a diverse portfolio. It's really on the console makers to make the idea work, they have to sell the potentially new cycle to consumers and the devs will follow.
 

oldergamer

Member
I have a sneaky suspicion that MS with xbox 1.5 will be both beefier Xbox one hardware and add in hardware back compat with the xbox 360. It would make sense with the 360 hardware ( being on a single shrunk down chip ) ending it's console run.

It would give the most bang for the buck. Much faster xbox one + xbox 360 100% compatible. I would actually jump at that.
 
I have a sneaky suspicion that MS with xbox 1.5 will be both beefier Xbox one hardware and add in hardware back compat with the xbox 360. It would make sense with the 360 hardware ( being on a single shrunk down chip ) ending it's console run.

It would give the most bang for the buck. Much faster xbox one + xbox 360 100% compatible. I would actually jump at that.

One console to play them all. I like it.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Sounds like a hint that the 'sell' from Sony/MS is going to be prolonged and/or indefinite software cycles with backward/forward compatibility.

( I don't mean backward compatibility wrt prior gens, btw... just new machines that can play 'PS4' or 'Xbox One' games may arrive for a prolonged time into the future, longer than a traditional cycle, with forward compatibility on older units within that cycle also)
 

Proelite

Member
I have a sneaky suspicion that MS with xbox 1.5 will be both beefier Xbox one hardware and add in hardware back compat with the xbox 360. It would make sense with the 360 hardware ( being on a single shrunk down chip ) ending it's console run.

It would give the most bang for the buck. Much faster xbox one + xbox 360 100% compatible. I would actually jump at that.

Why would they do it via hardware when they'l have a software solution. Beefier CPU will allow more 360 games to be patched.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
N64 and PS1 was the first true 3D console generation. Though, I'm not sure why EA labels that as Gen 1, when they had games on the prior generation consoles.

It's how they label their assets and technology for various platforms to my understanding.

Like if a new device comes out, you assess what category it most matches when deciding what to use when making a game for it.

Their 2D tech doesn't really fall in this spectrum.

It's probably not as pertinent anymore though given how Frostbite scales.
 

Tagyhag

Member
Imagine a future where there's no such thing as a PS3/PS4/PS5 game, but instead there are just PlayStation games that run at different resolutions/framerates/have better effects based on the system-tier you own. I would guess both Sony and MS see this as a way to increase the hardware they sell b/c in 10 years you could have a $100 PS4 sitting on the shelves, a $200 PS4K, and a $400 PS5 that all play the same games.

I'm a huge fan of infinite BC, but there would have to be some cut off point for the older systems.

I wouldn't want games in 2030 being held back because they also have to work on the PS4.
 

JaggedSac

Member
I have a sneaky suspicion that MS with xbox 1.5 will be both beefier Xbox one hardware and add in hardware back compat with the xbox 360. It would make sense with the 360 hardware ( being on a single shrunk down chip ) ending it's console run.

It would give the most bang for the buck. Much faster xbox one + xbox 360 100% compatible. I would actually jump at that.

They have a perfectly working emulator, adding hardware cost wouldn't make much sense. I expect them to plop that emulator onto the pc and make 360 purchases work on the windows store.
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
All can say is I'm all for it. Whether its a hit or miss is up to the public to decide with their wallets. My son still wants me to get a PS4 right now, and is mad I'm holding off on the Neo. Especially since I'm about to get a PS3 again.

Long story short I have to replace all my consoles. Maybe this time I will finally get some games for the Wii U. And finally play 3D World.
 
I mean, a lot of games come out on PC with millions of settings. Im not saying it would be easy to implement multiple versions of games for tiers of consoles, but it would be much easier to do now, than it has ever been.
 

c0de

Member
They have a perfectly working emulator, adding hardware cost wouldn't make much sense. I expect them to plop that emulator onto the pc and make 360 purchases work on the windows store.

Well, from a functionality view, it seems perfect. But there are still some performance issues as the hardware can't always keep up with the compute demands.
I guess MS knows exactly what is stopping the performance to be on par with the functions so a beefier system will be better to play the old games.
 

score01

Member
I have a sneaky suspicion that MS with xbox 1.5 will be both beefier Xbox one hardware and add in hardware back compat with the xbox 360. It would make sense with the 360 hardware ( being on a single shrunk down chip ) ending it's console run.

It would give the most bang for the buck. Much faster xbox one + xbox 360 100% compatible. I would actually jump at that.

I dont see hardware backwards compat happening for the 360 when they have spent alot of time and money / R&D in getting the software setup working.
 

Andodalf

Banned
I dont see hardware backwards compat happening for the 360 when they have spent alot of time and money / R&D in getting the software setup working.

Yep. Increased CPU power and memory speed would make the emulator run smoother tho.
 

camby

Member
U can bet everything will be optimized for the ps4/xbone. The install base dictates that so expect more launch problems with the newer consoles over the old ones.
 

JaggedSac

Member
Well, from a functionality view, it seems perfect. But there are still some performance issues as the hardware can't always keep up with the compute demands.
I guess MS knows exactly what is stopping the performance to be on par with the functions so a beefier system will be better to play the old games.

Yep, it will only get better as hardware gets better from here on out.
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
but but all the extra work, pubs must hate the prospect!

And watch how another topic with a positive view on it gets overlooked....and the next negative view gets 30+ pages...

Its like you people like fanning the flames.

anyway what I got from this is basically whatever Sony or Microsoft do they'll be ready.

Yea but the post we quoted....ppl were saying this and I remember at least one dev saying what this EA person said....and it got basically dismissed.

Its like for this topic anything negative about it seems more acceptable to some ppl vs anything positive. Anything positive and its the end of console gaming as we know it. Or Sony, MS is slapping us in the face.

U can bet everything will be optimized for the ps4/xbone. The install base dictates that so expect more launch problems with the newer consoles over the old ones.

Not according to what this EA person said in the OP......
 

LordRaptor

Member
The rumoured specs for the Neo don't have me thinking of it as a mid-cycle upgrade, but rather an accelerated ushering in of a new gen, with 'cross platform' titles being around for a year or so (as they were at this gens launch) before the inevitable 'plus version console only' titles.

I know the PR even pre-offical announcement is squarely saying that won't be the case to dampen backlash, but I honestly don't see it going any other way; unless the 'mid cycle upgrade' editions are hugely expensive or bad value for money, I don't see why anyone who hasn't already bought a PS4 or Xbox One wouldn't get the better hardware version.
 

watdaeff4

Member
Thanks for this.

Yeah, despite what Spencer is saying, I would be surprised if MS doesn't announce some type of upgraded console.

Too much smoke. Also, with what they are doing with BC and even the name of the Xbox 1 makes it seem that way (of course I'm reading tea leaves here)
 

Jonboy

Member
I'm a huge fan of infinite BC, but there would have to be some cut off point for the older systems.

I wouldn't want games in 2030 being held back because they also have to work on the PS4.
Yeah, definitely. Eventually you'd start to see it taper off, similar to what Apple does with iPhones & iPads (think the smartphone comparison actually applies here).
 

Henrar

Member
I think consumers will come around once they realize their current library will work in perpetuity on any future system, similar to PC gaming tho.
Contrary to popular belief, that is not guaranteed. Even on mobile apps break between generation of devices or OS versions.

Also, not all old PC games work out of the box on newer OSes and hardware (for example, I can't get NOLF1 to work on Win10). Sure, PC is open and you can hack, emulate, wrap old libraries in order for those games to run, but thats because PC and Windows are relatively open platforms. Consoles are closed.
 

c0de

Member
I'm a huge fan of infinite BC, but there would have to be some cut off point for the older systems.

I wouldn't want games in 2030 being held back because they also have to work on the PS4.

In 2030 they can emulate too old systems on a new system that would otherwise be held back.
 

c0de

Member
Contrary to popular belief, that is not guaranteed. Even on mobile apps break between generation of devices or OS versions.

Also, not all old PC games work out of the box on newer OSes and hardware (for example, I can't get NOLF1 to work on Win10). Sure, PC is open and you can hack, emulate, wrap old libraries in order for those games to run, but thats because PC and Windows are relatively open platforms. Consoles are closed.

Yes, but the closed and the open system both come from the same company that is actually building the os. They can take easily care for bc at a os level.
 

Outrun

Member
Just how late can Microsoft wait before having to send out devkits?
Could they just demand that this holiday's titles only increase resolution on the newer tech, so as to minimize the time needed to work on the devkits? Maybe they want no leaks until E3?

Those NDAs brah :p

You are right, MS is playing it close to their chest.
 

Moosichu

Member
Yes, but the closed and the open system both come from the same company that is actually building the os. They can take easily care for bc at a os level.

If they don't do it with Windows why would they do it with XBox? They might, but unlike on PC we are at their mercy.
 

Henrar

Member
Yes, but the closed and the open system both come from the same company that is actually building the os. They can take easily care for bc at a os level.
Sure. But the support is not guaranteed. For example, Apple doesn't really care - it's the developers responsibility for ensuring that the program works on new OS/hardware.

Sony historically isn't great at supporting legacy titles since PS3. And we can't really assume that x86 will be relevant in console space (or AMD will still manifacture it) or AMD will exist or Sony decides to switch architecture.
 
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