Support NeoGAF

[Jive Turkey]

You'l probably have read that on ChaosEdge - they've done all the heavy research on this case.

Ah it would seem you're right. Their 09/09/09 entry was just what I was remembering.

 

[Darkflight]

Well, well well:

IGDA Revokes Langdell's Membership In Wake of Edge Trademark Ruling
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...mbership_In_Wake_of_Edge_Trademark_Ruling.php

 

[jetjevons]

The smackdown that keeps on giving.

 

[zerokoolpsx]

Justice has been served, twice!

 

[Haunted]

Well, well well:

IGDA Revokes Langdell's Membership In Wake of Edge Trademark Ruling
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...mbership_In_Wake_of_Edge_Trademark_Ruling.php

Kind of scary that it had to come to this before IGDA took any action, but eh, better late than never.

 

[phisheep]

Well, well well:

IGDA Revokes Langdell's Membership In Wake of Edge Trademark Ruling
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...mbership_In_Wake_of_Edge_Trademark_Ruling.php

OP updated to reflect this. I'll try to get it tidied up over the weekend.

About time too.

Still a deafening silence from Tom Buscaglia. As opposed to here and regretted here. Though note the title of this one.

EDIT:

Also today, Langdell has expressly abandoned his application for the EDGE trademark for softwre including videogames.

That's interesting. Because there hasn't been a finding of fraud in the Federal Court and since the cancellation case is wiped out (or at least will be) by the court ruling, this was the last chance that EA had to make the fraud charges stick. Well, in the US at any rate. Sounds like Langdell is (at last) listening to some decent legal advice.

OP updated to match. Hadn't expected things to be moving quite this fast!

Incidentally, it was abandoned WITH PREJUDICE. Which sounds pretty damn bad to me, though I hesitate to suggest what the true meaning may be that side of the Atlantic.

 

[Chrange]

Kind of scary that it had to come to this before IGDA took any action, but eh, better late than never.

No kidding, they were notified again and again of his actions and waited until now to actually do something.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Well, well well:

IGDA Revokes Langdell's Membership In Wake of Edge Trademark Ruling
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...mbership_In_Wake_of_Edge_Trademark_Ruling.php

YES!

Now all I need is Langdell giving up rights to every Edge-related shit and admitting that he doesn't have a "gaming studio" and I'll be a happy guy!

 

[ShinNL]

That's interesting. Because there hasn't been a finding of fraud in the Federal Court and since the cancellation case is wiped out (or at least will be) by the court ruling, this was the last chance that EA had to make the fraud charges stick. Well, in the US at any rate. Sounds like Langdell is (at last) listening to some decent legal advice.

Thanks again for your summeries phisheep. However, you said the same thing a few times about proving fraud and abandoning trademarks, but I never really understood what it meant. What could happen if he sticks to it and what couldn't happen if he abandoned? As of now, being able to avoid charges for fraud by just canceling something seems really fishy to me. Fraud is criminal, right? Are the trademarks kind of like proof? But it's not like the records are completely gone, right?

 

[phisheep]

Thanks again for your summeries phisheep. However, you said the same thing a few times about proving fraud and abandoning trademarks, but I never really understood what it meant. What could happen if he sticks to it and what couldn't happen if he abandoned? As of now, being able to avoid charges for fraud by just canceling something seems really fishy to me. Fraud is criminal, right? Are the trademarks kind of like proof? But it's not like the records are completely gone, right?

I'll try to explain. Let me know if it doesn't work for you!

Fraud can be either or both of a civil and a criminal offence. Depending where you are in the world of course, the criminal offences usually require that you gain something (or cause someone to lose something) out of the fraud or deception. Plus, they have a higher standard of proof, a jury has to be certain in a criminal case that the defendant did the criminal act, while civil cases are decided on the balance of probabilities (is it likely that ,,,).

Here, there isn't any real evidence that Langdell gained anything material out of his fraud. He didn't, for example, sell any more games as a result. Now, it is possible that he gained licensing agreements that may have involved money - but that hasn't been an issue in this case because EA never gave him any money.

It is also possible that he gained positions (e.g. Associate professor) by fraud - but that wasn't part of this case either.

Nevertheless, a finding of fraud - even in a civil case, even in the USA - is pretty damning in terms of company law (being able to carry on as a director of anything), criminal law (grounds for investigation), cases in other countries (since it gives them a hook to hang things on) and IP law (because every IP agency in the world will give extra added scrutiny to anything you submit - these guys have blacklists same as anyone else). That's not to mention the tax authorities.

A finding of fraud against Langdell would have immediately opened him up to a whole swathe of both criminal and civil claims all over the place.

In the absence of such a finding, all he has to do is get over this case and then see what he can salvage.

My purpose in this thread is to make sure (eventually) that we have an eye on every head of this Hydra and that it doesn't pop up somewhere else.

 

[phisheep]

The opening line of that abandonment is "pursuant to a contractual agreement between the parties ..."

I rather imagine that as a result of this contractual agreement the UK/EU trademarks will fall like ninepins fairly shortly.

Keep 'em crossed.

 

[phisheep]

Triple post, but I don't care.

This is beyond belief.

LAST WEEK, in the middle of all this court case shenanigans, Langdell applied for the trademark 'EDGE GAMES', citing in evidence of current use, good old Bobby Bearing.

Words fail me.

Briefly.

I guess it will take a bit more effort to chop off this Hydra's heads. The man has no shame.

 

[Sciz]

Phisheep, having followed your coverage of this mess from the beginning, I'd just like to compliment you on successfully raising investigative journalism to the level of art form.

 

[kenta]

Incidentally, it was abandoned WITH PREJUDICE. Which sounds pretty damn bad to me, though I hesitate to suggest what the true meaning may be that side of the Atlantic.

It sounds worse than what it is, actually. It just means that the case is settled permanently, and that the same issue cannot be contested again

 

[phisheep]

It sounds worse than what it is, actually. It just means that the case is settled permanently, and that the same issue cannot be contested again

In this particular case, that sounds good enough for me. Thanks for the info.

 

[Vormund]

Jesus christ. He did that last week? The man is fucked in the head. Seriously, he must be mentally ill. And he's been justified in behaving like a mentally ill person every time he cashes a check from one of his "licensees".

I was going to say something similar. I honestly think this guy is nuts and that he is so deluded he really thinks he has a game studio. He probably has cardboard cutouts of people sitting at computer desks in his garage.

 

[phisheep]

Phisheep, having followed your coverage of this mess from the beginning, I'd just like to compliment you on successfully raising investigative journalism to the level of art form.

It is very kind of you to say so, but this isn't really investigative journalism. This is just a combination of whatever we can get hold of in the public domain with the real investigative stuff that ChaosEdge did, and EA's lawyers did and so on.

I have done some serious investigative-type stuff in the past. Didn't enjoy it, and this is nothing near the same thing.

Besides, I didn't cover this from the beginning. Leapt in part way through. Not the same.

Sure, I'm enjoying trying to chronicle (and forecast maybe) the endgame, but let's not overblow it.

 

[D2M15]

Jesus christ. He did that last week? The man is fucked in the head. Seriously, he must be mentally ill.

He trademark trolled Edge of Twilight during the height of the indie community backlash against him over the Edgy fiasco, and then in July started up on NIS America for Cross Edge.

As I think I've already said, he's so close to being a sociopath it's possibly a blessing that his hobby is harassing media companies rather than abducting hitchhikers.

 

[phisheep]

EA v EDGE GAMES latest

15th Oct, Langdell filed a certificate confirming that he has sent copies of the adverse judgment to all the relevant people. Not as interesting as I’d hoped, as it does not contain a list of who he sent it to.

That’s the last (and only) condition fulfilled. So that’s it. Case done.

18th Oct, EA advised the USPTO of the outcome of the federal case and formally requested the five trademarks be cancelled.

Trademark applications

14th Oct, Langdell expressly abandoned his application to register the trademark EDGE for game software etc

15th Oct, Langdell expressly abandoned his attempt to register the trademark MIRRORS for videogames in the US

15th Oct, Langdell expressly abandons his attempt to register EDGE for computer hardware etc

There’s been some movement in the UK as well, I’ll get to it shortly. I’ve started to get the OP tidier as well.

 

[IrishNinja]

15th Oct, Langdell filed a certificate confirming that he has sent copies of the adverse judgment to all the relevant people. Not as interesting as I’d hoped, as it does not contain a list of who he sent it to.

That’s the last (and only) condition fulfilled. So that’s it. Case done.

yeah, this list would've been interesting - Namco, the usual ones, probably some surprising ones as well though.
thread needs more .gifs of defeated Manfred von Karma.

 

[remz]

yeah, this list would've been interesting - Namco, the usual ones, probably some surprising ones as well though.
thread needs more .gifs of defeated Manfred von Karma.

He's more like that guy with no hair at the start of PW games

 

[Nikashi]

Hey guys, I know it's fun to pick on Tim Langdell, but we can't count him and Edge Games out yet, I mean, look at the plethora of forthcoming software!

http://www.edgegames.com/coming.htm


:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[IrishNinja]

He's more like that guy with no hair at the start of PW games

payne?

 

[phisheep]

There’s been some movement in the UK as well, I’ll get to it shortly.

Something very strange is happening here in the UK.

On 16th October Langdell withdrew his applications for the marks MIRROR'S SPORE and SOULSPORE.

But on the same date, the application (I don't know who made it) to revoke six of Langdell's other trademarks, that had been made in March 2009, was withdrawn.

It's rather difficult to speculate what might have happened here. I can't believe that anyone really wants Langdell to keep these trademarks - so something else must be going on somewhere. Can't wait to find out what!

OP updated to reflect this.

 

[phisheep]

yeah, this list would've been interesting - Namco, the usual ones, probably some surprising ones as well though.
thread needs more .gifs of defeated Manfred von Karma.

Tim Langdell = Tingdell?

EDIT: Much to my astonishment, Langdell has a page on IMDB. Enjoy!

 

[Rezbit]

Something very strange is happening here in the UK.

On 16th October Langdell withdrew his applications for the marks MIRROR'S SPORE and SOULSPORE.

But on the same date, the application (I don't know who made it) to revoke six of Langdell's other trademarks, that had been made in March 2009, was withdrawn.

It's rather difficult to speculate what might have happened here. I can't believe that anyone really wants Langdell to keep these trademarks - so something else must be going on somewhere. Can't wait to find out what!

OP updated to reflect this.

:lol :lol Mirror's Spore and Soulspore :lol :lol

Possible to know what those other trademarks are?

 

[phisheep]

Possible to know what those other trademarks are?

I listed them all in post 32 above - but I've now updated the OP so they are there as well, so I can cross them off as (I hope) they vanish.

 

[Rezbit]

I listed them all in post 32 above - but I've now updated the OP so they are there as well, so I can cross them off as (I hope) they vanish.

Ah cool, thanks! Be very interested to see what the deal is with the withdrawn issue!

 

[Zenith]

Let us not forget that The Escapist actually tried to defend this scumbag through misinformation

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=17179480

 

[phisheep]

Let us not forget that The Escapist actually tried to defend this scumbag through misinformation

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=17179480

I'm not inclined to trash this Escapist article. It was very early in the story, before Chaosedge really got going with real solid investigation, at a time when the internet was awash with badly informed tales of not being able to trademark a common name (wrong), and of multiple lawsuits that never happened.

Sure, it is slanted in a direction that we now recognise to be wrong, but that is hindsight talking, and it doesn't make that article bad journalism.

 

[No_Style]

Just a head's up: The Eurogamer link is messed up. Great OP though. I'm catching up on this whole mess.

 

[phisheep]

Just a head's up: The Eurogamer link is messed up. Great OP though. I'm catching up on this whole mess.

Oops. Thanks for the heads-up. Looks like I messed up a whole load of the links (through Word putting smart quotes in) - it'll take me a little while to go through and fix them all.

EDIT: Ok, I think I got 'em all. Let me know if anything else is broke.

 

[OgTheClever]

EDIT: Much to my astonishment, Langdell has a page on IMDB. Enjoy!

:lol :lol

He's down 32% in popularity this week.

 

[phisheep]

It is generally bandied around that Tim Langdell was founder and CEO of Softek, which then changed its name to Edge. For example in the Eurogamer article (linked in OP):

This story begins in Covent Garden, London at the end of the 1970s. It was here that a young entrepreneur, Timothy Langdell, founded the game publishing company Softek

However, there is a bit more to it than that. Or less, in fact. Here's an extract from Your Spectrum magazine, Issue 8, October 1984:

A creative group comprising programmers, graphic artists and musicians has broken away from its parent company, Softek International, to form an independent division. Called The Edge, it's already boasting four new titles, two of which - Starbike and Psytraxx - are designed for the Spectrum.

Rather more cynically, Issue 10 of Crash magazine, also in 1984 reported:

Softek’s Managing Director, Tim Langdell, has issued a mysterious press release on behalf of The Edge described as the ‘creative group’ which has broken away from Softek International. Langdell says, ‘Over the past few months I had been bringing together some of the best talent worldwide to form a unique group of programmers, graphic artists and musicians. Clearly Softek’s game creation and marketing division had grown immensely in the first half of 1984. The creative group requested to be able to form an independent division of Softek.’

Quite how this creative group squeezed into Softek International’s tiny two-room offices in London is a matter open to question — the latest in space compaction techniques no doubt. Anyway, they seem to have been busy getting Personal Computer Games game of the month award for their Commodore game Quo Vadis, and more amazingly entering the Computer & Video Games Hall of Fame pages before releasing the Spectrum game Starbike. These two games are described by The Edge as megagames — the first ever, and with a follow up title of Psytraxx, Softek and The Edge are beginning to sound a little like a Liverpool giant. Let’s hope Softek doesn’t go right over The Edge.

A breakaway group, huh? Langdell as MD of Softek but not of Softek International, eh? Well, I suppose the tiny two room office is a step up from a mailbox in Pasadena.

All the same, I don't think we need to necessarily take Langdell's claims of being founder of Softek at face value any more. Why would he need to break away from his own company?

EDIT: might be being a bit harsh here. There was some cynical press comment around the time, but it does look like Langdell might have been man in charge at Softek (which apparently 'bifurcated' (I wonder what happened to the other half?).

 

[phisheep]

:lol :lol

He's down 32% in popularity this week.

Oh bugger. I suppose that since the popularity rating is based on searches that I have just boosted it upwards for next week.

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

15th Oct, Langdell filed a certificate confirming that he has sent copies of the adverse judgment to all the relevant people. Not as interesting as I’d hoped, as it does not contain a list of who he sent it to.

What would happen if someone discovered he never actually sent the letters?

 

[AlexMogil]

Persoanlly I would love to play a game called Mirror's Spore.

I can't even begin to conceive the mechanics! Make it happen Timmy!

 

[phisheep]

What would happen if someone discovered he never actually sent the letters?

Contempt of court and perjury I should think. At least.

 

[phisheep]

Up until now I have thought that the USPTO was merely somewhat lax in requiring proper evidence of trademark applications.

Now they have made a right royal fuck-up over the KILLER EDGE RACING trademark application.

Langdell, under the guise of "Edge Racing" applied for a trademark in KILLER EDGE RACING in July 2009. Probably in order to make threats against VideoMindGames - see this post on Chaosedge.

As usual, once this had fulfilled its purpose, Langdell did not proceed with the application, and a notice of abandonment was issued by the USPTO on 3rd May.

On 6th May, Nalin Sharma of VideoMindGames wrote to the USPTO to protest the application, saying that the applicant had stolen his game's name and screenshots in order to make the application.

On 30th September, the USPTO replied:
- to 'Nalin Sharma', but at Tim Langdell's mailbox address
- treating the letter of protest not as a protest but as a petition to revive the trademark application in the name of Langdell's alter-ego
- giving an extra 30 days to revive the application that should have been long dead

All this when Sharma's address and company name were clearly marked on his letter.

This is appalling.

I have emailed Nalin to advise him of this just in case he was not aware. EDIT: exchanged emails we know more-or-less what is going on.

 

[CTLance]

:lol

Now that's a DURR HURR moment of epic proportions.

...or maybe someone at the patent office is trolling Tim.

This has to be intentional. I refuse to believe you can get something this wrong by mere accident.

Thanks phisheep, I appreciate you digging through all that legal mumbo jumbo for us.

 

[Scalemail Ted]

wow...

at the USPTO.

 

[phisheep]

On 27th October the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board (TTAB) ackowledged EA's submission of the final judgment in the federal court. They have given Langdell 20 days (up to 16th November) to show cause why judgment should not be entered against him in the TTAB cancellation case.

On 28th October the TTAB confirmed Langdell's abandonment of his application for the mark EDGE in relation to videogames. The application was dismissed with prejudice.

I know this is all boring procedural stuff, but it needs to be done!

OP updated.

 

[Nikashi]

any updates on this? wasn't there supposed to be some deadline on the 16th of November for something or other?

 

[phisheep]

Yeah. It's gone a bit strange though - some blustering about happening at the USPTO end, so the actual trademarks haven't been cancelled yet.

I should find time to do an interim update tomorrow (by which time they might even have got round to doing something).

 

[jvm]

Yeah. It's gone a bit strange though - some blustering about happening at the USPTO end, so the actual trademarks haven't been cancelled yet.

I should find time to do an interim update tomorrow (by which time they might even have got round to doing something).

Today was a federal holiday and I doubt anyone's doing anything significant tomorrow. But I could be wrong.

 

[Nikashi]

Sorry for bumping again, and THANK YOU SO MUCH PHISHEEP for doing all this, but any further updates? I am really really really enjoying watching his downfall vis a vis court docs and failed motions.

 

[jvm]

Also, it's worth mentioning that Edge got added to the PlayStation Store as a PSP game.

 

[phisheep]

Sorry for the delay in updating. I have been waiting for something to happen, and it hasn't. I’m not quite sure what is going on here. It all seems very odd.

You’ll remember that on 8th October the Federal Court ordered that Langdell’s five trademarks be cancelled. That document isn’t available on free-to-view sites at present (or at least I can’t find it there), but the key bit is this:

Pursuant to Section 37 of the Lanham Act, 15 U.S.C. § 1119, the Commissioner of Patents and Trademarks and the Assistant Commissioner for Trademarks are hereby ordered to cancel U.S. Trademark Registration Nos. 2,219,837; 2,251,584; 3,105,816; 3,559,342; and 3,381,826.

Of course, this was conditional on Langdell certifying to the court that he had informed his licensees, which he did on 15th October. You’d kind of expect that this means the trademarks would just be cancelled. Just like that. After all, the Federal court ordered it.

But as of today the trademarks are still registered.

On October 18th EA petitioned USPTO to enter judgment against Langdell and then on 27th October USPTO gave Langdell 20 days to respond. Now, if USPTO had given judgment in favour of EA that would have amounted to a finding of fraud against Langdell. Clearly he didn’t want that. So ...

On 14th November Langdell submitted to voluntarily surrender the trademarks with EA’s consent. And on 15th November EA withdrew its request for the USPTO to enter judgment.

I am not at all sure where this leaves the cancellation case before the USPTO. Neither, it seems, is the USPTO, since nothing has happened since.

This seems to me to be an utter travesty. The federal court ordered the trademarks to be cancelled. So they should just be cancelled. There should be no question of their being voluntarily surrendered.

The damn trademarks still haven’t been cancelled yet.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Thanks for the update!
Even though I know I have no clue on these matters I had a feeling it wasn't going to be that simple :lol

 

[DiscoJer]

Also, it's worth mentioning that Edge got added to the PlayStation Store as a PSP game.

As a Mini, so should work on PS3s as well. Pretty fun, too, so if you want to give Mobigame more than moral support, it's well worth a purchase. Only out in EU I think though.