Support NeoGAF

[tmarques]

Guys I know English and Spanish already. So whats the next important language Mandarin or Japanese?

If you mean culturally and economically, no doubt Mandarin would look better on a CV.

When people learn Japanese/Chinese/Korean/Thai etc. as adults, do they only learn to speak the language? I cannot fathom someone actually learning to read and write in those languages, unless you're some kind of genius.

 

[SecretMoblin]

French's orthographic rules are actually pretty regular; it's obviously way more obnoxious than spanish/czech/serbo-croatian/etc. but once you learn how certain groups of letters sound you pretty much know how they will sound every time you encounter them


the elision is annoying, though

 

[CurlySaysX]

spanish is easier, but chicks dig dudes that can speak french.

 

[Cormano]

Español, no doubt.

Once you learn how to pronounce every letter its impossible to make mistakes when you speak Spanish compared to English.

Planet
Plane

They sound totally different in English and one has one more letter.

Ropa
Ropaje

The pronunciation is the same for "ropa" you just add "je"

 

[mltplkxr]

Spanish is easier and simpler to learn to read n write.

French is more complicated, contains silent letters, arbitrary silent letters here and there. (a silent t here, a silent x there, the 3rd person pural in present ends in silent ent... three silent letters, lol.)
Arbitrary double letters here but not there.

Spanish went through more reforms to simplify the language, like the elimination of PH and just use F, the elimination of double letters that don't matter.

French is the opposite, French nobility decided to complicate the language to be able the control the illiterate lower class. And purists today are against reform.

I support this answer. Spanish, is factually simpler than French because it went through a phase of simplification, which the French didn't do.

However, you should also consider which one is a better cultural fit. It will make it easier for you to learn.

If you where a native French speaker, I assume you still have French speaking family that will help too.

 

[keuja]

Spanish, I've heard. Particularly spelling. French is as fucked up as English.

French is much much more fucked up than English.
Spanish is easier to learn than French by far.

Learn Spanish is you stay in America.

If you live in Europe, Asia or Canada, it's debatable but maybe French is (slightly) better for business.

 

[WaffleTaco]

Spanish. Learnt two years of both, and French was hard.

 

[RM8]

Español, no doubt.

Once you learn how to pronounce every letter its impossible to make mistakes when you speak Spanish compared to English.

Planet
Plane

They sound totally different in English and one has one more letter.

Ropa
Ropaje

The pronunciation is the same for "ropa" you just add "je"

This is why English is nonsense to us native Spanish speakers Our spelling makes sense!

 

[A_Gorilla]

This is why English is nonsense to us native Spanish speakers Our spelling makes sense!

English is nonsense to virtually anyone that doesn't speak it as a first language. That's what happens when you take a Germanic language and add a fuckton of Latin filtered down from French.

 

[GYODX]

If you mean culturally and economically, no doubt Mandarin would look better on a CV.

When people learn Japanese/Chinese/Korean/Thai etc. as adults, do they only learn to speak the language? I cannot fathom someone actually learning to read and write in those languages, unless you're some kind of genius.

Japanese has so many goddamn homophones that I cannot fathom reaching a high level of fluency as an adult if you don't first learn the written language. To illustrate: Niwa niwa niwa niwatori ga iru (庭には二羽鶏がい&#12427 means "There are two chickens in the garden".

I've been learning for 4 years so I have a pretty good idea of the sort of work you have to put in if you want to be able to read Japanese. Memorizing over 2000 Chinese characters, all of which have two or more different pronunciations that change with context, is no easy task. It is by far the hardest thing I've ever done.

 

[Kurita]

If you mean culturally and economically, no doubt Mandarin would look better on a CV.

When people learn Japanese/Chinese/Korean/Thai etc. as adults, do they only learn to speak the language? I cannot fathom someone actually learning to read and write in those languages, unless you're some kind of genius.

I started learning Japanese for a few years when I was a kid then stopped. I started studying it again and I'm majoring in Japanese now.
Honestly I'd say it looks harder than it is. I find the grammar to be relatively easy. The hardest part really is learning all the characters, but even then, if you're serious about it you'll manage to remember them.
You can't just learn how to speak the language, you have to know how to write it.

 

[divusrex]

I'd say Spanish, the spelling of a lot of words is pretty close or fairly intuitive with the English translations.

 

[HGStormy]

Spanish. Way more useful too.

 

[Raist]

I don't know, I always found French subjunctive a bitch. First because I feel dirty using the present subjunctive to speak of the past. I think it'll always sound off to me, to the point where I'd almost prefer to learn a different conjugation. And also because the rules are as arbitrary as can be.

Conversation I once had with a teacher:

Teacher: "'Il est possible que' goes with the subjunctive because it expresses doubt".
Me: Ok.
"'Il est probable que' goes with the indicative".
But it's not a certainty.
"But it's a high possibility, it's good enough"
Ok.
"'Il y a de fortes chances que' goes with the subjunctive"
But it expresses a high possibility.
"Well, yes, but it's not a certainty."
But you just said...
"Well, it is what it is. What do you want me to do?"

Sorry, but it doesn't . Well, in official "rules" anyway.

The thing with "probable que" (and variations) is that while the rule is supposedly indicative for an affirmation (and subjonctive for a question / negation), most people would always use the subjonctive in any case. As a native french speaker, something like "il est probable qu'il vient" sounds awfully awkward. Basically it depends on context and certainty. But no one would bat an eyelid if you said "il est probable qu'il vienne".

 

[tba]

Reasons why French is easier than Spanish:
- In French the subject pronoun is always stated but in Spanish it is usually dropped, which means you need to have a better knowledge of the conjugates in order to be able to comprehend the language.

But it is out of necessity.
Je parle
Tu parles
Il parle
Ils parlent
parle, parles, parle and parlent sound exactly the same, hence you need a subject pronoun to distinguish between them. And you still need to know how to write them.
In Spanish there's no such problem: hablo - hables - habla - hablan. Same with Italian, Portuguese and Latin.
I'd honestly say that in this regard Spanish is easier, although I can assume that this may not be the case for native speakers of English.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

I am a bilingual (Spanish/English) and I think a Romance language would be easier. I took a year of Japanese but I have forgotten most of it.

Think of something you can use even a few times a months.

 

[SecretMoblin]

But it is out of necessity.
Je parle
Tu parles
Il parle
Ils parlent
parle, parles, parle and parlent sound exactly the same, hence you need a subject pronoun to distinguish between them. And you still need to know how to write them.
In Spanish there's no such problem: hablo - hables - habla - hablan. Same with Italian, Portuguese and Latin.
I'd honestly said that in this regard Spanish is easier, although I can assume that this may not be the case for native speakers of English.

but even then you run into issues with

il parle --> ils parlent
and
elle parle --> elles parlent, which are identical phonetically

Having studied mostly Germanic languages I much prefer the French way of doing things, but spoken French is still ambiguous and heavily contextual where other languages I'm used to aren't :/

 

[Arksy]

But it is out of necessity.
Je parle
Tu parles
Il parle
Ils parlent
parle, parles, parle and parlent sound exactly the same, hence you need a subject pronoun to distinguish between them. And you still need to know how to write them.
In Spanish there's no such problem: hablo - hables - habla - hablan. Same with Italian, Portuguese and Latin.
I'd honestly said that in this regard Spanish is easier, although I can assume that this may not be the case for native speakers of English.

Not for English speakers, English requires the subject pronoun so we're used to hearing it. While you're right that Spanish conjugations are all different it's a lot easier to remember a subject pronoun than the conjugations, especially when you factor in the large number of irregular verbs.

You're also forgetting that French only has one more subject pronoun than English (they have two for "you" with their T-V distinction, but Spanish has five words for "you"..(tu/usted and vosotros/vosotras and ustedes). They also have two subject pronouns for we (nosotros/nosotras)...distinctions completely lacking in French.

Spanish also completely lacks a "it" subject, which is incredibly common in English. French on the other hand uses it's third person masculine as a subject pronoun that correlates very well to "it".

 

[Mael]

But it is out of necessity.
Je parle
Tu parles
Il parle
Ils parlent
parle, parles, parle and parlent sound exactly the same, hence you need a subject pronoun to distinguish between them. And you still need to know how to write them.
In Spanish there's no such problem: hablo - hables - habla - hablan. Same with Italian, Portuguese and Latin.
I'd honestly say that in this regard Spanish is easier, although I can assume that this may not be the case for native speakers of English.

How would you even know that there's 6 forms for parler if you don't even know the present tense to begin with?

 

[sphinx]

They are fairly similar, but Spanish wins on account of having numbering rules made by humans.

aren't you german??

cause germans say "six and thirty" to say 36... that's as fucked up as it can get lol.

 

[Funky Papa]

aren't you german??

cause germans say "six and thirty" to say 36... that's as fucked up as it can get lol.

Spanish.

Which means I have the God-given right to mock the French *and* the Germans.

 

[Raist]

aren't you german??

cause germans say "six and thirty" to say 36... that's as fucked up as it can get lol.

Yeah, it's funny. Still doesn't beat the french 70, 80, 90.

Soixante-dix (Sixty-ten)
Quatre-vingts (Four-twenty)
Quatre-vingt-dix (Four-twenty-ten).

It's interesting because in french-speaking Belgium and Switzerland, they use Septante, Octante/Huitante and Nonante. The weird french way has celtic origins.

Spanish.

Which means I have the God-given right to mock the French *and* the Germans.

Until this last WC that is

 

[Funky Papa]

Hush, Raist.

 

[tba]

Not for English speakers, English requires the subject pronoun so we're used to hearing it.

That is understandable, having "a more synthetic language" as my native I prefer this approach to the one of more analytic ones.
Speak of Romance languages that means that I prefer Latin "Do librum Petro" to Spanish "(Le) Doy un libro a Pedro" to French "Je donne un livre à Pierre"

How would you even know that there's 6 forms for parler if you don't even know the present tense to begin with?

I chose only the ones I need to illustrate the phonetic similarities.

 

[Arksy]

Yeah, it's funny. Still doesn't beat the french 70, 80, 90.

Soixante-dix (Sixty-ten)
Quatre-vingts (Four-twenty)
Quatre-vingt-dix (Four-twenty-ten).

It's interesting because in french-speaking Belgium and Switzerland, they use Septante, Octante/Huitante and Nonante. The weird french way has celtic origins.



Until this last WC that is

They used to do it that way in English,

Fourscore = 80

Fourscore and ten = 90

 

[Sarcasm]

Guys I know English and Spanish already. So whats the next important language Mandarin or Japanese?

as for OP: Go for Spanish , more countries speak it.





Seriously in 2050 OP will be around 60-70. Do you really think he will give a damn that he learned spanish when the world is going down the french path around that time. Spanish is more useful to him now during his youth and for the next thirty years when it matters most.

Mandarin..which you can than use the tie over language into Japanese. Makes it easier.

 

[Nete]

But Spanish also has a compound past tense. Well, maybe not everywhere, but certainly in Spain. And with French you don't necessarily need to learn the simple past tense since it's not used orally, while with Spanish you need to know both and when to use each.

I find conjugating in French easier for some reason. It only gets tricky when you need to use more than one pronoun at a time with the passé composé, but in time it becomes (kind of) automatic. Not that Spanish pronouns are much better. Is there any other language that uses object pronouns even when the object itself is part of the sentence? No one will ever convince me of the logic in that. I'll say though that the redundancy is one of the reason why the language sounds so beautiful, so I can live with that.

I agree with whoever said it's easier to learn whatever language you'll have nore occasions to practice.

Catalan weak pronouns, the most diabolical thing I've seen in a romance language. When you only use one is not a big deal, but oh boy when you need to combine them. Even as a native speaker is as fucked as it seems. Even more, as if you are not native you probably wouldn't even dare to try to use them.

 

[Daedardus]

Yeah, it's funny. Still doesn't beat the french 70, 80, 90.

Soixante-dix (Sixty-ten)
Quatre-vingts (Four-twenty)
Quatre-vingt-dix (Four-twenty-ten).

Don't forget quatre-vingt-dix-neuf!

But really, French tenses are the hardest to learn. Yes, there are three big regular groups, but there are so many irregular ones with exceptions to exceptions and very similar ones. Once you get the hang of them, French isn't that hard.

 

[Funky Papa]

Catalan weak pronouns, the most diabolical thing I've seen in a latin language. When you only use one is not a big deal, but oh boy when you need to combine them. Even as a native speaker is as fucked as it seems.

Catalan is kind of fucked up in a number of ways, not just because it sits somewhere in between Spanish and French. I'm guessing it didn't go through a massive and lenghty normalization like Spanish did with the RAE and the Latinamerican academies.

Meanwhile, Aragonese reads and sounds like caveman speak.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Spanish is much easier to learn even though french is my native language. French is super tricky to learn, lots of irregularities.

 

[Necromanti]

I spent an equal amount of time with both languages, but I felt that Spanish was slightly easier (in the beginning, at least). All languages have their own complexities and nuances, though, so it would be better to learn a language you are interested in, and that would be useful to you. If French was your first language for cultural reasons, then that could be a good reason to want to maintain some semblance of fluency in it.

 

[Vitten]

Spanish I would say, easier pronounciation and spelling and much more streamlined grammar. French verbs and all their irregular forms can be a nightmare.

Altough it all depends on your motivation and personal preference.

 

[Hypron]

Like other people have said before, I think the important thing is to learn a language you are interested in. Choose the one you want to learn the most without taking things like complexity into account (especially since the difference in complexity between the two isn't that huge). Learning a language while staying in your country is a hard process. If you're not that interested in the language to begin with you will be more tempted to just give up.

 

[Hyun Sai]

French is my first language, and Spanish is definitely easier.

French got too much rules that make absolutely no sense at all.

 

[Phobophile]

Learn French only if you want to get better at English.

 

[ppor]

Learn French only if you want to get better at English.

Yea, I never realized it until I took French. I guess historically it's seen as the "classier" of the two languages (damn Normans).

passe
sans
en vogue
voila
je ne sais quoi
par excellence
du jour
plus all those cooking terms

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Spanish is easier.

And if you're American, more useful with the rapidly growing Hispanic population. So go for that unless you have a specific reason to learn French.

 

[Bomber Bob]

I'd try to learn Chinese.

Learning the hanzi has been a mind expanding experience for me

 

[clem84]

English, Spanish and French share a lot of similarities so you shouldn't have any problems going from one to the other. Spanish is more widespread then French so you should take that into consideration.

It also depends if you have an affinity for one or both cultures. Are there things, movies, music, etc... from either culture that you're drawn to? When you listen to somebody speak French or Spanish, do you like the sound from one language more than the other? Do you have people in real life, either friends or family, that speak one of the two language? Do you see yourself visiting a country someday where one of the two languages is predominantly spoken? All these things should factor into your decision.

I was born and raised in French but the city I live in is so bilingual that you learn both French and English without even trying. And now I have just started learning Japanese. Japanese is a big departure from the two languages I know. It's a challenge but one I'm willing to tackle. Learning a new language will enrich your life more than you can imagine so whatever your decision, don't let anything stop you and just go for it.

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

English is my native language. That being said, Español es muy fácil. I found french to be frustrating, and stopped trying after one semester - it sounds nice though.

 

[Crimson-Death]

I find that Spanish and French share a lot similarities in terms of structures, syntax, and the complexity of verb conjugations.

French was easier for me to learn knowing Spanish first, and I guess that is why some native English speakers would find it more frustrating to learn le français.
For the pronunciation, I just went with it, and for me it was the same level of difficulty as that of English.

Spanish I think is the easiest to learn to pronounce and read, there are only 5 vowel sounds compared to the more complex vowel sounds in English, and then you pair that with the consonants, and the "crazy" rules and exceptions in Spanish are not nearly as many nor as insane as in English or French. I find French and English to be equally insane and nonsensical in their rules of grammar and pronunciation.

Spanish is infinitely more useful in the United States. Lots of good literature in Spanish, especially beautiful, beautiful poetry. Then again, I also love all kinds of poetry written in English. French I enjoy in movies and music and media. I love to rewatch my favorite movies (originally in English) in Spanish and French.

I have been studying Japanese for years, on and off, and last year started a more serious effort. I love all kinds of anime and Japanese shows and movies, and I love the language,
And because of friends I have now started to learn some Dari.

I love to study languages, and whatever the native language one should never stop studying it, nor other ways of connecting with the world.

 

[santi_yo]

English is a crazy language.

(5:03)

 

[Phobophile]

I was taught French from birth along side English. My mother thought it was a good idea since it was still the lingua franca at the time (though clearly on a descent). I'm getting lousier at it and I was never good at understanding European French speakers since they talk twice as fast and have difficult accents. I finally had the opportunity to flex my French for the first time (not counting my trip to Montréal as a teenager since I got away without speaking a lick of French to strangers) this past winter and it went poorly. They couldn't understand my accent in French (no doubt some bastard Caribbean/Chicago mix) and they had a hard time understanding my accent in English. Though when the English guy spouted off questions next to me at what I would consider to be twice as fast and half as enunciated (I was only able to pick up 3/4 of his question), the French guy had no problems understanding him whatsoever. So I'm guessing he's just not used to American (at least Chicagoan) accents. So yeah I barely use French and when I did, I was greeted with frustration and impatience.

That said, already knowing a Romance language would make learning Spanish a cakewalk. I'm considering taking classes at a city college.