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[pieatorium]

They probably have some token JRPG reviewer who plays only those. Besides we were talking about real RPGs.

Putting the RP back in the G!

 

[Yoboman]

I'm maybe 8 hours into the Xbox version of Dragon Age, and yea, I'd say it's kinda disappointing so far.

Seems to be a common sentiment among the console players

 

[Huggers]

I'm maybe 8 hours into the Xbox version of Dragon Age, and yea, I'd say it's kinda disappointing so far.

Well clearly you hate wrpgs, this is the only explanation

 

[Sohter.Nura]

YES!


Capcom, I am dissapoint.

Don't worry, the first game was also in the mid 7s to 8s and the game was rad, I played a heck ton of it.

I don't what reviewers are thinking sometimes.

 

[jett]

They gave a $60 map pack a 9, seriously? Not good Edge, not good.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

They gave a $60 map pack a 9, seriously? Not good Edge, not good.

everybody point and laugh at this guy

 

[ethelred]

Seems to be a common sentiment among the console players

That isn't true. Most people that I've seen that have played the console versions have still come away from the game very impressed. And with good reason -- the game is not radically different in most respects between console and PC. Yeah, the PC version has better graphical options, the difficulty is a bit different, and it has isometric view... but the core game isn't really different, the design of the game is the same, the writing is the same, the voice acting is the same, the dungeons are the same.

 

[EviLore]

I wasn't even referring to you (I have no idea what you play), but I guess it's open season now since you're one of them.

Still though, anyone who says shit like "it's the same as COD4" and hasn't played the game needs to shut the fuck up.

The SP is the same as CoD4 with more extravagantly designed hallways; the moments people loved in CoD4 are just copy-pasted. There's not an ounce of originality, genre-pushing, tactical depth, or any other hypothetical positives. Just more expensive graphics and a strong desire to recreate the success of CoD4 in the most derivative way possible.

The MP, well, I won't really know first-hand unless they add dedicated servers and make it a weekend deal on steam. It's cool that they've given players a whole satchel of carrots this time around, but the emphasis on team-exploding kill streaks leaves a sour second-hand impression. And of course the PC version's misdeeds which needn't be mentioned further at this point.

 

[itsinmyveins]

everybody point and laugh at this guy

Well, I think that it's at best a mediocre game. I'm not taking price/length into consideration though, so we're cool.

EDIT: He is talking about ODST, right?

 

[Yazus]

Should have been

Bayonetta: 10
Dragon Age:Origins: 8

Really, its the best RPG since Fallout 3. What the fuck is this shit?

 

[Mama Robotnik]

It's nice to see Edge threads moving into a new 'Edge are biased' direction as 2010 looms ahead on the horizon. Pre-07's "Edge inflate UK-produced games' scores" has its charms, while 07-09's "Edge are biased against the PS3" was starting to lose it's lustre.

This, on the other hand, is fresh, exciting. Just the new flavour these threads needs as we move into the teenies.

I like this observation. EDGE has been accused (based on various lists of numbers rather than the actual review content) of being biased to consoles, developer-country, genre, and allocation scores for the goal of controversy and attention-whoring. When game X does not get the subjective-number that matches the subjective-number expected by fan Y, then the conspiracy theories come out to play:

[(Game real score) + (UK development modifier x Controversial attention-whoring variable) - (Console bias factor)] ÷ (Genrewide disapproval rating) = EDGE Score

What variables have I missed?

If you want to destroy a review for being inaccurate, illogical or inconsistent, do so to the text. Quote the bits that your disagree with, highlight the faults and present a counter. Please. Because this numbers game is stupid.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

everybody point and laugh at this guy

wait! maybe, just maybe, he's referring to modern warfare 2. let's give him the benefit of the doubt here.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Well, I think that it's at best a mediocre game. I'm not taking price/length into consideration though, so we're cool.

wait, what game are we talking about

 

[itsinmyveins]

wait, what game are we talking about

CONFUSION.


I thought he was talking about ODST but just realized he might be talking about MW2 as well -- kinda hard to discern with all the hyperbole going on :lol

 

[Dr Bad Dude PHD]

Still not sold on Bayonetta

 

[John Harker]

Well clearly you hate wrpgs, this is the only explanation

Mass Effect was way more engaging... and looked better, had a better interface and dialogue system, etc. And I saydisappointing for two reasons: 1. I hear the DA:O PC version is significantly better and 2. I prefer swords and socery to sci fi.

Then again, I am coming off of 60 hours of Demon's Souls so I may not be giving DA a fair shake :lol

 

[luxarific]

That isn't true. Most people that I've seen that have played the console versions have still come away from the game very impressed. And with good reason -- the game is not radically different in most respects between console and PC. Yeah, the PC version has better graphical options, the difficulty is a bit different, and it has isometric view... but the core game isn't really different, the design of the game is the same, the writing is the same, the voice acting is the same, the dungeons are the same.

Quoted for truth. I've seen very few complaints about the 360 version from people who have played it.

 

[AstroLad]

That isn't true. Most people that I've seen that have played the console versions have still come away from the game very impressed. And with good reason -- the game is not radically different in most respects between console and PC. Yeah, the PC version has better graphical options, the difficulty is a bit different, and it has isometric view... but the core game isn't really different, the design of the game is the same, the writing is the same, the voice acting is the same, the dungeons are the same.

I think you're right, but whenever you do see the disappointed/negative posts, they're almost always from people with the console versions complaining about issues unique to the consoles.

 

[Huggers]

Mass Effect was way more engaging... and looked better, had a better interface and dialogue system, etc. And I saydisappointing for two reasons: 1. I hear the DA:O PC version is significantly better and 2. I prefer swords and socery to sci fi.

Then again, I am coming off of 60 hours of Demon's Souls so I may not be giving DA a fair shake :lol

Yeah I was just being sarcky because everyone seems to be desperately searching for reasons that their subjective opinion on a game or genre of games doesn't match a magazines

 

[kswiston]

I think the notion that a 5 is an average score from EDGE needs to be laid to rest. I went back and looked through the scores from issues 195-209 (except 197 which I seemed to have misplaced), and here are the stats relating to game scores:

Total games reviewed in the last 15 issues of edge (minus issue 197): 209
Total games that scored 6 or lower: 86 (41%)
Total games that scored 7 or higher: 123 (59%)

You can't consider 5 out of 10 an average score if 60% of the games reviewed by EDGE are getting 7+

 

[Deleted member 30609]

CONFUSION.


I thought he was talking about ODST but just realized he might be talking about MW2 as well -- kinda hard to discern with all the hyperbole going on :lol

I thought he was talking about L4D2 :lol

this is great

 

[stupei]

Seems to be a common sentiment among the console players

Not true. Most people who offer positive feedback don't bother to mention which version they're playing but if you look at the thread dedicated to asking which platform people are playing on, you see quite a few console players who are loving the game. It is true, however, that more people who haven't enjoyed the game have been playing it on a console rather than on PC. (Though you would imagine most PC gamers would know exactly what type of game they were getting into and would only have picked it up in the first place if they knew it was their thing.)

 

[Stink]

I think the notion that a 5 is an average score from EDGE needs to be laid to rest. I went back and looked through the scores from issues 195-209 (except 197 which I seemed to have misplaced), and here are the stats relating to game scores:

Total games reviewed in the last 15 issues of edge (minus issue 197): 209
Total games that scored 6 or lower: 86 (41%)
Total games that scored 7 or higher: 123 (59%)

You can't consider 5 out of 10 an average score if 60% of the games reviewed by EDGE are getting 7+

you've missed the point.

They're saying a 5/10 is what they'd consider an average game. Not good, not bad, and nothing to do with mathematics.

Edge don't review every game (not by a long shot), so it's impossible to quantify.

 

[itsinmyveins]

I thought he was talking about L4D2 :lol

this is great

oh shit, didn't even think about L4D2 :lol

But just to summarize what my view on this little in-thread spectacle;

ODST = Meh!
MW2 = Yeah!
L4D2 = Yeah!

 

[Huggers]

I think the notion that a 5 is an average score from EDGE needs to be laid to rest. I went back and looked through the scores from issues 195-209 (except 197 which I seemed to have misplaced), and here are the stats relating to game scores:

Total games reviewed in the last 15 issues of edge (minus issue 197): 209
Total games that scored 6 or lower: 86 (41%)
Total games that scored 7 or higher: 123 (59%)

You can't consider 5 out of 10 an average score if 60% of the games reviewed by EDGE are getting 7+

This theory would only hold water if they reviewed every single game released

 

[Beezy]

The SP is the same as CoD4 with more extravagantly designed hallways; the moments people loved in CoD4 are just copy-pasted. There's not an ounce of originality, genre-pushing, tactical depth, or any other hypothetical positives. Just more expensive graphics and a strong desire to recreate the success of CoD4 in the most derivative way possible.

The MP, well, I won't really know first-hand unless they add dedicated servers and make it a weekend deal on steam. It's cool that they've given players a whole satchel of carrots this time around, but the emphasis on team-exploding kill streaks leaves a sour second-hand impression. And of course the PC version's misdeeds which needn't be mentioned further at this point.

I've barely touched the campaign so I can't comment on that yet, but killstreaks don't break multiplayer or anything. Most of them come as planes and helicopters that can be shot down with one rocket as soon as the appear.

 

[rollingstart]

The only good thing about reviewers is creating rules about the publication. Famitsu gets paid for high reviews, IGN dot com, Edge gives +1 to games from the UK, Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame proooooo, etc. It's nice to see that Edge being ignorant towards rpgs can be added on.

 

[WrenchNinja]

They probably have some token JRPG reviewer who plays only those. Besides we were talking about real RPGs.

JRPGs aren't real RPGs?

 

[dragonfart28]

I'm maybe 8 hours into the Xbox version of Dragon Age, and yea, I'd say it's kinda disappointing so far.

Seems to be a common sentiment among the console players

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=380159

 

[Q8D3vil]

bayonetta is freaking overrated :lol

dragon age is my goty

fuck u edge

 

[kswiston]

This theory would only hold water if they reviewed every single game released

The Theory is that Edge uses the whole scale, and therefore games scored 5-6 are still average/good games. However, like everyone else, EDGE is a largely a 7-9 magazine.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Arcanum - 5/10

*Set us up teh bomb in their basement*

 

[John Harker]

Yeah I was just being sarcky because everyone seems to be desperately searching for reasons that their subjective opinion on a game or genre of games doesn't match a magazines

I agree. I try to ignore it all ::shrug::

Personally, I think Edge is great. And if I agreed with ever magazine out there, well, what's the point of reading the magazine in the first place then? I like a difference of opinion, it invokes thought and consideration.

In conclusion: if I had a PC, I would have gotten DA:O for the PC. Unfortunately, I do not, so I have the Xbox version. Since the console version is noticeably inferior, here in lies the slight disappointment; that being said, I'm enjoying it enough to play it through to completion... it's just not definitive and didn't match my expectations (camera, controls, graphics are all wonky).

That, and either way it pales when coming right off of Demon's Souls

 

[pieatorium]

JRPGs aren't real RPGs?

how did i break the quote?

 

[Drek]

Except that's Planescape not BG2

Best story in the history of gaming =/= best RPG.

Baldur's Gate is superior in almost every way except for Planescape's storyline. Hell, BG1, Fallout 1 & 2, and Icewind Dale do too. Planescape's story is so damn good that it still trumps all the rest, but BG2 is basically as close to a flawless game as I've ever played. It just hits on every aspect of what makes a great RPG.

JRPGs aren't real RPGs?

No. But they can still be quite fun.

It's nice to see Edge threads moving into a new 'Edge are biased' direction as 2010 looms ahead on the horizon. Pre-07's "Edge inflate UK-produced games' scores" has its charms, while 07-09's "Edge are biased against the PS3" was starting to lose it's lustre.

This, on the other hand, is fresh, exciting. Just the new flavour these threads needs as we move into the teenies.

Ever think that they just suck at writing objective reviews? They bring their own preconceptions and biases into their reviews, but because they write half way decently a lot of people get fooled into thinking its something other than one dude's opinion on a game, rather than one dude's opinion on how most gamers would receive the game.

I think CoD:MW2 is a shit cash in personally, but for the CoD fan base its probably seen as manna from heaven. So if I was to write a review of it I'd keep that in mind and talk about it in perspective to what that fan base wants. Perspective and integrity should be the hall marks of a good reviewer, not a collection of opinions and a willingness to shout them louder than the next guy.

 

[Ihya]

Bah, Edge, whatever. There is a crazy hermit in their head office that comes out with these opinions.

 

[Huggers]

The Theory is that Edge uses the whole scale, and therefore games scored 5-6 are still average/good games. However, like everyone else, EDGE is a largely a 7-9 magazine.

They are selective over what they review and therefore you see more 7s and above as they don't even review a lot of the dross. They do use the whole scale

That, and either way it pales when coming right off of Demon's Souls

Ah man, I am in the process of getting this game imported, need to play it badly!

 

[Flachmatuch]

Should have been

Bayonetta: 10
Dragon Age:Origins: 8

Really, its the best RPG since Fallout 3. What the fuck is this shit?

I thought it was boring, derivative, essentially the same Bioware game I've already played half a dozen times. Not even close to ME or Kotor imo. Just like there are people who dislike JRPG tropes, there might be people who get bored/dislike WRPG/Bioware ones too, which this game has in large quantities. It was certainly a huge disappointment for me.

 

[Huggers]

Ever think that they just suck at writing objective reviews?

I don't want to read 'objective' reviews. There is no such thing

 

[Otrebor Nightmarecoat]

Clearly the reviewer for Dragon Age played the pc version first. Its been clear that everyone that plays the pc version then finds the console versions cumbersome.

Bayonetta hype greatly increases!

 

[Durante]

That, and either way it pales when coming right off of Demon's Souls

That's like saying reading pales as a hobby coming off rock climbing. They are completely different games. (And each close to the peak of their genre) I also played those 2 in the same order and did not feel that either was a weaker experience -- in fact I may enjoy DA even more but that's because I love tactical battles in isometric perspective and party banter in my RPGs.

Anyway, they should just have said that they think it's as good as Arcanum.

 

[Zzoram]

JRPGs aren't real RPGs?

Roleplaying refers to assuming the role of a character and making decisions in character, which happens to be a custom character in basically every roleplaying game anyways so you create a personality through your decisions/actions. JRPGs rarely have you actually roleplay. They are mostly just super linear interactive movies and the story plays out exactly the same every time, just like linear action games, only slower paced.

JRPGs can be great games, and I'm pre-ordering FFXIII, but you're not roleplaying in them anymore than you are in Uncharted 2 or MGS4.

 

[Dabanton]

bayonetta is freaking overrated :lol

dragon age is my goty

fuck u edge

My oh my. :lol

 

[Flachmatuch]

No. But they can still be quite fun.

FF12, which I don't like, has very similar combat imo, even gambits (which are I think better in DA though). I think it's quite similar in a lot of ways in terms of gameplay. Storywise, you get Japanese cliches vs Western (and pf course Bioware specific) cliches, which might appear "smarter" and even "better" to some people (and vice versa), but they're exactly the same c-level fantasy tripe (sorry) - which one you enjoy more just depends on personal taste.

Roleplaying refers to assuming the role of a character and making decisions in character, which happens to be a custom character in basically every roleplaying game anyways so you create a personality through your decisions/actions. JRPGs rarely have you actually roleplay. They are mostly just super linear interactive movies and the story plays out exactly the same every time, just like linear action games, only slower paced.

Well I don't think that being able to choose between two or three silly and forced choices is really "role playing". Neither are morality systems and party member preferences. WRPGs are better in the "choose your adventure" stuff, but that's not "role playing" in any way.

 

[ksan]

I don't want to read 'objective' reviews. There is no such thing

Yep, but that doesn't mean that the review has to be beyond terrible.

 

[Zzoram]

FF12, which I don't like, has very similar combat imo, even gambits (which are I think better in DA though). I think it's quite similar in a lot of ways in terms of gameplay. Storywise, you get Japanese cliches vs Western (and pf course Bioware specific) cliches, which might appear "smarter" and even "better" to some people (and vice versa), but they're exactly the same c-level fantasy tripe (sorry) - which one you enjoy more just depends on personal taste.

It's not the combat mechanics that make a roleplaying game. It's playing a role through making decisions. JRPGs usually don't give you any more choice to affect the story than Uncharted 2, and in both you play a completely pre-defined story and character.

 

[Huggers]

Yep, but that doesn't mean that the review has to be beyond terrible.

Have you read it? Which parts specifically do you take exception to?

 

[Ultimo hombre]

Looking forward to Bayonetta. It's the 2nd best demo for a game I've played this generation (Braid being #1). Glad I avoided Dragon's Age for ME2.

 

[Flachmatuch]

It's not the combat mechanics that make a roleplaying game. It's playing a role through making decisions. JRPGs usually don't give you any more choice to affect the story than Uncharted 2, and in both you play a completely pre-defined story and character.

They do though, but in more subtle and less technical ways (lots of JRPGs also have multiple endings etc). But this is not "role playing" either, imo, just a choice between multiple stories some of which will be more illogical and worse written than others.

 

[Zzoram]

FF12, which I don't like, has very similar combat imo, even gambits (which are I think better in DA though). I think it's quite similar in a lot of ways in terms of gameplay. Storywise, you get Japanese cliches vs Western (and pf course Bioware specific) cliches, which might appear "smarter" and even "better" to some people (and vice versa), but they're exactly the same c-level fantasy tripe (sorry) - which one you enjoy more just depends on personal taste.



Well I don't think that being able to choose between two or three silly and forced choices is really "role playing". Neither are morality systems and party member preferences. WRPGs are better in the "choose your adventure" stuff, but that's not "role playing" in any way.

The choose your own adventure stuff is exactly what roleplaying is all about. JRPGs are only "RPGs" because they have experience points, level ups, and equipment. However, there are tons of action games with similarly linear stories and those features that we wouldn't call an RPG.

The defining characteristic of roleplaying is making choices during numerous quests/missions.