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[Prince Vultan]

Chuckled at the Dead Rising part, lost my shit at the Ryse part.

There's opinions and then there's flat out bullshit. Back when Edge were extolling PS4 at E3 they never wrote anything half as embarassing as this. Essentially saying "Halo pwns Killzone/Forza pwns Driveclub" is serious Youtube level shit.

 

[LollipoPReapeR]

Unless you're claiming to be an authority on the matter, why should I care what you think about what no one, at this point, is capable of winning? It's conjecture and fuzzy math that is missing steps and important details. Even the developers on these platforms aren't fully able to see what and how things will go down with regard to matching expectations of the paper specs.

I never claimed to be the authority nor explained any math. I just took issue to the attitude. I also believe skeff, kidbeta and eltorro will have something to say about 'fuzzy math'.If you read that thread then the 'fuzzy math' and 'conjecture' would have made a lot of sense. Back to my original point, if you claim math is fuzzy then shown/told about where this can be verified then go on to refuse to look at it then claim its still 'fuzzy' I have nothing more to say.

 

[HueyFreeman]

Smacks of edge eating their hat after what was in hindsight a pretty silly lead article title.

 

[kaching]

I'm not reading any sense of 'tearing down' the PS4 in any way at all. Maybe you can explain further.

Start with the cherry-picked quotes to downplay the hardware gap:

- Quote about memory power being offset somehow with quote implying that PS4 just does memory writes, no reads. "PS4 is more powerful, but you can’t just write to the memory, you need to read sometimes.” What?
-"They maybe have a little more GPU" Maybe? A little?
- Unqualified statement about "crazy bandwidth" eSRAM being better than more GPU. How does that work exactly? I don't feel "better informed" here. I do however get the distinct impression I'm supposed to think that PS4's hardware advantages are rather insignificant by the end of this.

Now look at the game comparisons:

- "Killzone is no Halo" Ok, that's his opinion, but Halo is no Halo until late next year. Is Shadowfall really that bad that it's not even worth playing in the meantime?
- DR3 as the "smarter bet" over Infamous:SS. Again an unnecessary comparison of two games that won't be out at the same time and aren't really intended to be much alike in the first place.
-"Even a second-tier title like Ryse makes a stronger case for its host hardware’s graphical capabilities, at least, than anything set for PS4’s launch day, while no next-generation multiplayer game can match Respawn’s work on Titanfall" Total and complete Shadowfall snub. How bad does this guy hate KZ that he can't even acknowledge it holding its own against "second tier" Ryse as a testament to host hardware graphical capabilities and then basically imply it's not even worth trying KZSF's MP while we wait for Titanfall sometime well into next year?

Making the case for the XBO having a solid game lineup shouldn't require making any comparison to games on other platforms in the first place. Games should stand on their own merits. Making oblique comparisons like these serves no other purpose but to downplay.

 

[BigDug13]

This. It certainly has its fans and was never terrible. Always a solid middle-of-the-road exclusive game and the next-gen version looks very good visually from the limited media we have seen.

This is also exactly how I would describe DR3.

While the comparison of the two very different open world games is kind of weird, the idea that Infamous is some kind of pinnacle of gaming that is impossible for DR3 to match is bizarre. I mean, its Infamous...

Ok but Zombie games aren't exactly an under-represented genre. But open world superhero games?

What do we have here:

Spiderman 2
Prototype
inFamous
Crackdown
Saints Row IV

InFamous is arguably one of the best of these and the series continues to get better (as opposed to Prototype which never went above mediocre and Crackdown which got handed to another developer and kinda shit on for the second game in the series.)

I personally think that the inFamous series is one of the best game series of the generation. (had Crackdown been given improvements instead of taking steps backwards between crackdown 1 and crackdown 2, it would also be in my "one of the best in the generation" category.)

 

[Glorified G]

Unless you're claiming to be an authority on the matter, why should I care what you think about what no one, at this point, is capable of winning? It's conjecture and fuzzy math that is missing steps and important details. Even the developers on these platforms aren't fully able to see what and how things will go down with regard to matching expectations of the paper specs. That's why I'm not interested in hearing your tech explanation, one that will be just like everyone you and I have already read a dozen to hundreds of times over in the last six months or so. It's pointless, as I say. Then again, you seem to care more about those numbers than I. So, have at it.

It was your posting style that was being criticized, not your point your trying to make. And I bet plenty of people didn't bother to finish your post after "I'm not really interested in hearing your answer" part. Just a tip for future reference, if you want more people to actually engage in a discussion with you toning down the snark would help.

 

[DangerMouse]

Holy crap at that Killzone gif.

Can't wait for Second Son.

The PR is strong in this one.

Edit: got to post this quote.

"Xbox One now has more CPU power than PS4, while PS4 retains the advantage in GPU speed. “They maybe have a little more GPU,”

I mean c'mon a 6% upclock for a weak cpu, is pretty insignificant, compared to being roughly 50% weaker in the GPU.

Wow, that's damningly transparent.

 

[bishoptl]

We could have had competition with physical retailers. Imagine getting TRU buy 2 get one free deals or store clearance sales on content that you would then add to your permanent digital library. It would have been much more competitive than just a handful of digital providers.

Wait a second.

I thought the convenience of digital downloads/full hard drive installs was driving this so-called push into a future that we weren't ready for.

Now I have to deal with a physical retailer in order to enjoy the fruits of (now artificially limited by Microsoft) "competition"?

As opposed to having different digital download providers already competing for my dollar on my system, with no need to leave my comfy couch?

...it's all 180s, 360s and 720s over here, apparently.

 

[DangerMouse]

Chuckled at the Dead Rising part, lost my shit at the Ryse part.

There's opinions and then there's flat out bullshit. Back when Edge were extolling PS4 at E3 they never wrote anything half as embarassing as this. Essentially saying "Halo pwns Killzone/Forza pwns Driveclub" is serious Youtube level shit.

This.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

I never claimed to be the authority nor explained any math. I just took issue to the attitude. I also believe skeff, kidbeta and eltorro will have something to say about 'fuzzy math'.If you read that thread then the 'fuzzy math' and 'conjecture' would have made a lot of sense. Back to my original point, if you claim math is fuzzy then shown/told about where this can be verified then go on to refuse to look at it then claim its still 'fuzzy' I have nothing more to say.

Eh, you're the one who butted into my conversation with someone else to try and call me out on being some kind of a hypocrite on my statement that I don't care about the spec-talk. You're the one who is pushing for tech truth for me to accept when there isn't any. You believe, I don't. So, please, say no more to me on the subject. We'll both be happier and you can spend your time with someone who cares for that endless mess of incomplete data with a glaring lack of real world results to point to.

It was your posting style that was being criticized, not your point your trying to make. And I bet plenty of people didn't bother to finish your post after "I'm not really interested in hearing your answer" part. Just a tip for future reference, if you want more people to actually engage in a discussion with you toning down the snark would help.

I said that because I thought I was doing someone a favor in preventing them from spewing or copy/pasting that spec mess into a reply that wasn't interested in, as I've reiterated multiple times before now. It hasn't been resolved in the tech threads, and it won't be resolved here in a thread about an article.

 

[Visualante2]

Tides are really turning over at Edge. Issue 260 drops this week, possibly tomorrow. I wonder if they are finally going to give Microsoft's hambeast a cover..

edit. If you look at how much attention the "this is your next console" cover got them, they'd be stupid not to do it again. Going for hits by playing into the console warrior's hands.

 

[nelsonroyale]

I wonder what Edge are about.

 

[SLY_]

Chuckled at the Dead Rising part, lost my shit at the Ryse part.

There's opinions and then there's flat out bullshit. Back when Edge were extolling PS4 at E3 they never wrote anything half as embarassing as this. Essentially saying "Halo pwns Killzone/Forza pwns Driveclub" is serious Youtube level shit.

And yet your own argument against the entire article is an opinion.

They've presented the article pretty fairly and claiming the games hold up to the competition is an honest statement. Just because you enjoy iNFAMOUS and Killzone as a Playstation fan doesn't detract from those other games.

Halo and Forza are also proven IP's. Killzone is a good game but it's never met the same success or critical acclaim of Halo and that's just reality. Doesn't make KZ a bad game. Driveclub will have to wait until February/March before anyone can even play it so no point in trying to judge it atm but we know Forza is likely to perform well sales-wise/critically if we look at past iterations.

Try not to let an article rile you up so much

 

[LollipoPReapeR]

Eh, you're the one who butted into my conversation with someone else to try and call me out on being some kind of a hypocrite on my statement that I don't care about the spec-talk. You're the one who is pushing for tech truth for me to accept when there isn't any. You believe, I don't. So, please, say no more to me on the subject. We'll both be happier and you can spend your time with someone who cares for that endless mess of incomplete data with a glaring lack of real world results to point to.



I said that because I thought I was doing someone a favor in preventing them from spewing that spec mess into a reply that wasn't interested in the subject of it. It hasn't been resolved in the tech threads, and it won't be resolved here in a thread about an article.

Oh hey guys! Is this a PM that magically lets anyone reply?

I'm not going to even bother to reply to the rest of that statement.

Since nothing I say seems to make a remote difference to you even though I have always been polite in what I have said based on what I believed was logic and curiosity, well I say, good day to you sir.

 

[Acquiescence]

It reads like pure shillery. Killzone is no Halo? Well ignoring the fact that Shadow Fall is the most pre-ordered next-gen console exclusive, it's a good job there's no Halo on the horizon for Killzone to sweat over. Such a half-assed dismissal over a game that, in the eyes of this Killzone/first-person shooter unenthusiast, looks like a stunning introduction to the next generation of consoles. And Dead Rising 3 ain't got shit on Second Son.

The worst part though is undoubtedly the "some of the things we were proposing were perhaps a little too far into the future" line, which basically translates to "we couldn't get away with it this time, but we'll try again later on." It makes me want to headbutt something.

 

[malfcn]

They still have some issues to work out. Was talking to someone at work that is going out with an employee at Gamestop. The person working there says GS is still displeased with MS about the policies. The part surprised me most was they were still hung up on the used game policy, that is no longer currently an issue.

 

[not_so_special]

They've presented the article pretty fairly and claiming the games hold up to the competition is an honest statement.

yes

in some bizarro alternate universe

 

[Prince Vultan]

And yet your own argument against the entire article is an opinion.

They've presented the article pretty fairly and claiming the games hold up to the competition is an honest statement. Just because you enjoy iNFAMOUS and Killzone as a Playstation fan doesn't detract from those other games.

Halo and Forza are also proven IP's. Killzone is a good game but it's never met the same success or critical acclaim of Halo and that's just reality. Doesn't make KZ a bad game. Driveclub will have to wait until February/March before anyone can even play it so no point in trying to judge it atm but we know Forza is likely to perform well sales-wise/critically if we look at past iterations.

Try not to let an article rile you up so much

Presenting the observation that "Killzone isn't Halo" as a negative and suggesting Driveclub(Arcade racer) can't match up to Forza(Sim racer) when they aren't even trying to be the same kind of racer is ridiculous. Might as well be saying Forza doesn't match up to Mario Kart or something. The proceeding to make meaningless statements like that Infamous/Dead Rising comparison? There is nothing "fair" about how this article is presented, it is completely skewed in one direction... and that's before you even get to the CPU/GPU comparisons.

I'm surprised you're so willing to accept such a lopsided viewpoint from Edge on this. I'd have pegged a Microsoft fan to be all for something a little more... balanced.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Presenting the observation that "Killzone isn't Halo" as a negative and suggesting Driveclub(Arcade racer) can't match up to Forza(Sim racer) when they aren't even trying to be the same kind of racer is ridiculous. Might as well be saying Forza doesn't match up to Mario Kart or something. The proceeding to make meaningless statements like that Infamous/Dead Rising comparison? There is nothing "fair" about how this article is presented, it is completely skewed in one direction... and that's before you even get to the CPU/GPU comparisons.

I'm surprised you're so willing to accept such a lopsided viewpoint from Edge on this. I'd have pegged a Microsoft fan to be all for something a little more... balanced.

Games of similar genre or even sub-genre are often going to be compared to the giants... that is just too common to say it is lopsided to do.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

Chuckled at the Dead Rising part, lost my shit at the Ryse part.

There's opinions and then there's flat out bullshit. Back when Edge were extolling PS4 at E3 they never wrote anything half as embarassing as this. Essentially saying "Halo pwns Killzone/Forza pwns Driveclub" is serious Youtube level shit.

They should be embarrassed.

 

[SLY_]

Presenting the observation that "Killzone isn't Halo" as a negative and suggesting Driveclub(Arcade racer) can't match up to Forza(Sim racer) when they aren't even trying to be the same kind of racer is ridiculous. Might as well be saying Forza doesn't match up to Mario Kart or something. The proceeding to make meaningless statements like that Infamous/Dead Rising comparison? There is nothing "fair" about how this article is presented, it is completely skewed in one direction... and that's before you even get to the CPU/GPU comparisons.

I'm surprised you're so willing to accept such a lopsided viewpoint from Edge on this. I'd have pegged a Microsoft fan to be all for something a little more... balanced.

Easy there big fella. No need to get all worked up. Just explaining my viewpoint is all.

If you don't want to appreciate what another consoles games are doing, that's fine. They'll be successful whether you like them or not and plenty of folks are having a blast playing these games at the reveals and tours popping up throughout the country.

My suggestion to you is: Put your bias aside for a moment, give yourself an opportunity to play games you're dead set on hating, and you might just find some fun and enjoyment.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

Easy there big fella. No need to get all worked up. Just explaining my viewpoint is all.

If you don't want to appreciate what another consoles games are doing, that's fine. They'll be successful whether you like them or not and plenty of folks are having a blast playing these games at the reveals and tours popping up throughout the country.

My suggestion to you is: Put your bias aside for a moment, give yourself an opportunity to play games you're dead set on hating, and you might just find some fun and enjoyment.

It's a very subjective article from a major publication. Of course people will get upset. The way they can present how MS has "better" games is by for example taking an online poll and reporting the results to back up their claims. If they did that then I'm sure many would accept that. But the guy sits there comparing a game like Dead Rising and Infamous, two games that have only an open world in common. It's just strange IMO.

 

[killatopak]

And they said EDGE was being moneyhatted by Sony....

 

[Xenon]

Wait a second.

I thought the convenience of digital downloads/full hard drive installs was driving this so-called push into a future that we weren't ready for.

Now I have to deal with a physical retailer in order to enjoy the fruits of (now artificially limited by Microsoft) "competition"?

As opposed to having different digital download providers already competing for my dollar on my system, with no need to leave my comfy couch?

...it's all 180s, 360s and 720s over here, apparently.

Do you judge Apple and Android under such a harsh criteria? They also have unified platforms which operate With a single digital store. The benefits you speak of have more to do With the open p_c platform than Steam itself. To expect that level open of openess on a game console is unrealistic. So I think it's completely valid to compare what the original plan for the Xbox One was to steam. Comparing it to the digital download experience for a PC is a completely different animal. as far as the comfy couch goes that's more of a matter of convenience than competitiveness.

edit :damnit I forgot about Amazon Marketplace on Android but my Apple point still stands =p

 

[bleachrude]

In terms of popularity, isn't Infamous equivalent to Dead Rising? Neither title is a multiplatorm juggernaut, neither title would be considered the best in their genre and neither are what you call system sellers. They are both strong B team franchises that any console manufacturer wants between their A-game releases.

As for Killzone being ignored, still stand by my belief that releasing the same time with BF and CoD will hurt it. I just can't see that many people foregoing BOTH of the big 2 shooters to play Killzone. Yeah, yeah. GA will say that the servers will be packed full for KZ but I'm skeptical of that.

 

[bishoptl]

Do you judge Apple and Android under such a harsh criteria? They also have unified platforms which operate With a single digital store. The benefits you speak of have more to do With the open p_c platform than Steam itself. To expect that level open of openess on a game console is unrealistic. So I think it's completely valid to compare what the original plan for the Xbox One was to steam. Comparing it to the digital download experience for a PC is a completely different animal. as far as the comfy couch goes that's more of a matter of convenience than competitiveness.

edit :damnit I forgot about Amazon Marketplace on Android but my Apple point still stands =p

Yeah dude, I got ya on Amazon Marketplace

As far as the rest of it goes, Steam is the digital download experience on PC. So calling it a complete different animal doesn't wash in my view.

All good though, unless they fish it out of the rubbish for another go round.

 

[Xenon]

Yeah all good for some =\ Hopefully my attempt to go all DD this upcoming gen pans out better than it did for me on the Vita.

 

[CadetMahoney]

I see MS is trying to get Edge back on their side.

And they said EDGE was being moneyhatted by Sony....

This.

 

[E92 M3]

KZ looks great, but I don't see the hype about infamous - personally I'd rather see a next gen Prototype game. That game was fucking awesome, in my humble opinion. I loved the mobility.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

I'll take Infamous over Dead Rising every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Well if it plays like the first two I feel I would have a much better time with Dead Rising

 

[Prince Vultan]

Easy there big fella. No need to get all worked up. Just explaining my viewpoint is all.

If you don't want to appreciate what another consoles games are doing, that's fine. They'll be successful whether you like them or not and plenty of folks are having a blast playing these games at the reveals and tours popping up throughout the country.

My suggestion to you is: Put your bias aside for a moment, give yourself an opportunity to play games you're dead set on hating, and you might just find some fun and enjoyment.

Don't believe I said a word about what any of these games might actually be like.

 

[Pbae]

Ok so I posted this in the other EDGE thread and I think that threads pretty much dead so I'll just copy/paste here. But I had a question for the knowledgable lot since these numbers hurt my head (T_T) so I wanted to have your input guys.

The PS4 is estimated to be around 40-56% more powerful (depending on who you ask). It’s easier to develop for due to, power, more mature tools and a more straightforward architecture. It’s able to push out more computations, better physics, particle effects, draw distance, resolution, and more due to the added GPGPU, ROPS, ACES, hUMA, etc. the Xbox One lacks.

My question is in regards to third party games. Due to the constraints of the XB1, will the scope of games be minimized due to the lack of power or can I expect the differences to just be better resolution, frame rate, and more visual flair for the PS4? Right out the gate, certain PS4 games are already aiming for things like soft body physics (The Order), and insane use of particles (Infamous: SS) that Microsoft just haven’t addressed or just haven’t shown.

Everyone keeps bringing up esram and how fast it is but at only 32mb it seems marginal to me so I wanted to understand why the size limitation is a hindrance in a real world scenario. Will there be more loading screens or time? Will there be smaller scale levels?

I know I wrote a whole heck of a lot but now being able to be part of the conversation I thought you guys could pitch in and help me understand this. If I’m wrong with any information please feel free to correct me!



*P.S – Also, does anyone know if Capcom can use the Panta Rhei Engine for Xbox One games? I read on Wikipedia that Cap was replacing their MT Framework engine with it and was curious if anyone knew any more about it than I.

 

[shandy706]

The PS4 is estimated to be around 40-56% more powerful (depending on who you ask). It’s easier to develop for due to, power, more mature tools and a more straightforward architecture. It’s able to push out more computations, better physics, particle effects, draw distance, resolution, and more due to the added GPGPU, ROPS, ACES, hUMA, etc.

As you hinted at I think people overestimate and underestimate on both sides.

It's very much true the PS4 has better hardware in places. No doubt.

People do, however, seem to either not understand or have expectations that go beyond what this means. It doesn't mean huge FPS differences like 30 vs 60. Being so related to off the shelf PCs will allow tweaks that help keep some parity. Could you get an AA bump, yes..but comparison wise, probably something like 4xAA vs 2xAA. Will we get resolution differences? Maybe. 1080p vs 720p...probably not. 720 vs 900 or 900 vs 1080, maybe. 3rd parties will probably target a set framerate or res and tweak to that. It's really going to hinge on the devs.

The difference in power doesn't translate to 50%+- more graphics on screen. History and GPU comparisons can show you that.

I can see cross-platform aiming for 60fps on the X1 and locking the 70fps/75fps PS4 version at 60. Will they notch up the AA a slot? Will they leave the AA and notch up the shadows or something from post processing? Who knows...not I.

It's why I'm a PC gamer for cross platforms. I can say for sure, the true exclusives should turn out some gems on both sides.

 

[CLEEK]

Today, PlayStation 4’s most visible advantages lie in price and power, and on the latter point, many observers claim that the difference isn’t as pronounced as was once suggested – at least when viewed in balance.

While the Xbone might not have much power, there is certainly power to the balance FUD that MS have been spouting.

 

[Cartman86]

I have 3 friends out of 15 or so who play primarily on PS3. The rest are 360. Many have both, but haven't signed into PSN in over 2 years. All of them were going PS4 a couple months ago. These last few weeks I've asked them again in an attempt to figure out which version of multiplayer games I need to get and all but those 3 PS3 friends have gone back to Xbox One. I know it's an anecdote, but it's interesting. Seems clear the PS4 will outsell, but I don't see the One doing as bad as many signs pointed to a couple months ago.

 

[Curufinwe]

Dead Rising 3 now looks like a smarter bet for open-world mayhem than Second Son.

You really have to wonder what that opinion was based on now the truth about Dead Rising 3's performance issues has come out.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

You really have to wonder what that opinion was based on now the truth about Dead Rising 3's performance issues has come out.

Ha. I actually thought of this article, after reading the DF write up on DR3. This article was basically fanservice to fanboys that were offended by the pro-PS4 articles, so exaggerations weren't that surprising.

 

[mocoworm]

"But we got clear feedback that some of the things we were proposing were perhaps a little too far into the future"

No - they plain out suck...

No - they were just too far ahead of themselves. He is right. They were too far into the future - Too forward thinking. This scenario that MS presented will happen in the future, therefore that makes his statement correct. A time will come where we don't have physical discs.