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Educate me ArcadeGAF - How well will Sega's Lindbergh port to Next gen consoles?

W

winston_pr

Member
Peeps,

Searched the forums but didn't find any specific references to Sega's Arcade board Lindbergh.

spec_photo1.jpg


Alhough we know Smash Tennis 3 and Virtua Fighter 5 will be heading to PS3, can anyone technically discern how perfect such ports would be?

The information I could find on Sega's page was that Lindbergh is running on the following hardware:

Intel Pentium 4 HT CPU
1GB PC3200 DDR SDRAM
NVIDIA GPU (256bit) 256MB GDDR3 (Vertex shader 3.0, Pixel Shader 3.0)
w. Dual monitor output. Software run from DVD (Blue-ray says hi)

No idea under which OS, Linux?

Would software for such a platform even be easier to port to Xbox360?

So what's the deal? Are we to expect 100% perfect ports minus the fancy cabinett?
 
P

PG2G

Member
VF5 is apparently arcade perfect and VT3 runs at 1080p and I'd assume is arcade perfect as well... I don't think its a problem. Lindbergh really isnt impressive
 
S

Shogmaster

Member
winston_pr said:
Peeps,

Searched the forums but didn't find any specific references to Sega's Arcade board Lindbergh.

spec_photo1.jpg


Alhough we know Smash Tennis 3 and Virtua Fighter 5 will be heading to PS3, can anyone technically discern how perfect such ports would be?

The information I could find on Sega's page was that Lindbergh is running on the following hardware:

Intel Pentium 4 HT CPU
1GB PC3200 DDR SDRAM
NVIDIA GPU (256bit) 256MB GDDR3 (Vertex shader 3.0, Pixel Shader 3.0)
w. Dual monitor output. Software run from DVD (Blue-ray says hi)

No idea under which OS, Linux?

Would software for such a platform even be easier to port to Xbox360?

So what's the deal? Are we to expect 100% perfect ports minus the fancy cabinett?
Click to expand...

Lindburgh turned out to be not much of a powerhouse, using a plain old 6800GT instead of 7800s or even a 6800Ultra. The only problem porting to PS3 and X360 is the added loading time (the 1GB of RAM in Lindburgh is to minimize loading in arcade environment IMO).

And Virtua Tennis 3 is also being made for X360 at the same time as the PS3 version, but done by Sumo instead of Sega themselves and look pretty much the same from what's been reported (and seen personally at E3 this year, but that was a while ago).
 
T

Terrell

Member
Sega had designed this arcade board in a way that (according to them) makes it very scalable to all 3 upcoming platforms. That remains to be seen, however. At the moment, all I see Sega moving things from Lindbergh to is PS3, and letting someone else recombinate the game code to 360.
 
Tieno

Tieno

Member
What makes that arcade unit so expensive? Shane said it's 40 000 dollars...and the specs lists just off the shelf pc parts...
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
From the impressions of VF5 its already arcade perfect (Sega's currently adding the PS3 specific features to the game). And the PS3 version of VT3 runs at 1080p. So ports will be fine.
 
S

starship

psycho_snake's and The Black Brad Pitt's B*TCH
Shogmaster said:
Lindburgh turned out to be not much of a powerhouse, using a plain old 6800GT instead of 7800s or even a 6800Ultra. The only problem porting to PS3 and X360 is the added loading time (the 1GB of RAM in Lindburgh is to minimize loading in arcade environment IMO).

And Virtua Tennis 3 is also being made for X360 at the same time as the PS3 version, but done by Sumo instead of Sega themselves and look pretty much the same from what's been reported (and seen personally at E3 this year, but that was a while ago).
Click to expand...
If by pretty much the same you mean:

PS3:
894_0003.jpg


X360:
894_0012.jpg


More:
http://www.playsyde.com/news_3668_en.html
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
Shogmaster said:
And Virtua Tennis 3 is also being made for X360 at the same time as the PS3 version, but done by Sumo instead of Sega themselves and look pretty much the same from what's been reported (and seen personally at E3 this year, but that was a while ago).
Click to expand...

In THIS specific case, Virtua Tennis 3, PS3 has the upperhand (not because of any issue with the power of 360 vs. PS3, just because of the developer Sumo v. SEGA). I suppose the 360 version will have the 1080p option now, but in the builds shown up to now... PS3 was not only 1080p, but was looking better.

[url=http://ps3.ign.com/articles/727/727917p1.html]IGN[/url] said:
SEGA also placed the PS3 version directly next to the Xbox 360 build allowing us to see the slight differences between the two. This was made more interesting by the fact that the two games are being developed by separate companies with AM2 working on the PS3 title and Sumo Digital developing the 360 version. Plainly put, the PS3 looked a little better with sharper textures and incredibly detailed player models. It was almost eerie when we noticed the veins sticking out in our character's forehead.
Click to expand...

Others have said the difference wasn't that major, but there is still a difference (people saying PS3 have a cleaner, sharper look, etc).
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
Shogmaster said:
Yeah, nice comparasin shots. Same court, same resolution, same players, same camera angle. Well done!
Click to expand...

The PS3 is 1080p and the 360 is 720p, so you can't pick the same resolution shots for both.
 
S

starship

psycho_snake's and The Black Brad Pitt's B*TCH
Shogmaster said:
Yeah, nice comparasin shots. Same court, same resolution, same players, same camera angle. Well done!
Click to expand...
You can see more shots at blims site.
and yikes for ignoring higher res, better anti aliasing, better textures, ....
Those two versions are pretty much the same
in the eyes of xbots like you of course
 
J

jimbo

Banned
kia said:
If by pretty much the same you mean:
Click to expand...


Actually, the earlier comparison shots showed a much bigger difference. Between the two you posted, if you told me one was just a higher res shot of the same version showing two different stages, I wouldn't argue with you.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
There is no doubt, Shog, Virtua Tennis 3 currently looks better on PS3 and at a higher resolution. Sorry if that is like, uh, something you don't want to hear but it's reality. As I said, it has nothing to do with the systems respective power and everything to do with who is working on each version.
 
S

Shogmaster

Member
kia said:
You can see more shots at blims site.
and yikes for ignoring higher res, better anti aliasing, better textures, ....
Click to expand...

Higher res? Obviously. Better anti aliasing? Sure. Better textures? Where? :lol

And I guess the definition of "pretty much the same" is apparently "exactly the same" for you guys? *rolleyes* Given that the 360 version was hired out of house, the two versions look close enough. Not many outside of GAF will see the two and shout: WHAT A DIFFERENCE!
 
MarkMan

MarkMan

loves Arcade Sticks
The reason a Virtua Fighter 5 Lindbergh arcade unit costs so much. Is because it comes with 2 lindbergh boards. 4 sit down arcade units(the arcade parts like joysticks/buttons aren't even expensive at all) and a plasma screen for VFTV.

That's why it costs so damn much.
 
K

knitoe

Member
The PS3 should be better:

1) Sega vs outsourcing (Sumo).

2) Going from 6800GT to 7800 is much easier / faster than 6800GT to unified GPU (Xenos).


If at anytime a Lindbergh doesn't look same or better on PS3, someone f*ck up badly.
 
S

Shogmaster

Member
knitoe said:
The PS3 should be better:

1) Sega vs outsourcing (Sumo).

2) Going from 6800GT to 7800 is much easier / faster than 6800GT to a none traditional GPU with 10MB render buffer (Xenos).
Click to expand...


Fixed.
 
P

Pimpwerx

Member
Shogmaster said:
Unlike the res and AA, I don't see any evidence of better textures in the pics. It's just likely that the reporter dude got confused because of the higher res and AA making the same texures look clearer.
Click to expand...
Ha! Do you even read your posts before clicking submit anymore?

Anyway, increased screen resolution will reveal increase texture resolution b/c there are simply more pixels to resolve. I saw this same Shog 6 years ago. He'll be a crumpled-over, bawling heap in a few months. :lol PEACE.
 
M

MrToughPants

Brian Burke punched my mom
Pimpwerx said:
Ha! Do you even read your posts before clicking submit anymore?

Anyway, increased screen resolution will reveal increase texture resolution b/c there are simply more pixels to resolve. I saw this same Shog 6 years ago. He'll be a crumpled-over, bawling heap in a few months. :lol PEACE.
Click to expand...

:lol

KJIavatar.jpg
 
S

Shogmaster

Member
Pimpwerx said:
Ha! Do you even read your posts before clicking submit anymore?

Anyway, increased screen resolution will reveal increase texture resolution b/c there are simply more pixels to resolve. I saw this same Shog 6 years ago. He'll be a crumpled-over, bawling heap in a few months. :lol PEACE.
Click to expand...

Is this the same Pimplywerx that argued on about how doing Dolby Digital in software on P3 733MHz couldn't possibly effect performance on Halo on Beta hardware at E3 since sound emulation is trivial almost 6 years ago?

And no shit the resolution displayed will make the same textures look better. I said as much in few posts above, genius! So kindly get off my crotch, "Duane".
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
Just say it, Shogmaster. Say these words: "The PS3 version of Virtua Tennis 3 looks demonstratably better. It is ok, because it is only a matter of the talents between SUMO and SEGA."
 
S

Shogmaster

Member
Amir0x said:
Just say it, Shogmaster. Say these words: "The PS3 version of Virtua Tennis 3 looks demonstratably better. It is ok, because it is only a matter of the talents between SUMO and SEGA."
Click to expand...

I have no problem saying PS3 version of VT3 looks "demonstratably better" in resolution and AA, but to be fair to the lads at Sumo, they do have to convert the rendering engine to the EDRAM/tiling paradigm to match Sega's performance with the PS3. It's a much tougher job for Sumo than Sega.
 
W

winston_pr

Member
Props to GAF for great insights. <3 And great comparison pics.
PS3 version wins. 1080p is simply overall better. Don't really mind how much the PS3 shaders will enchance Nadal's socks compared to 360 etc...

Beside cost, I have a feeling they went with the PC platform because of their heavy emphasis on Internet networking capabilities (Masaka- they aren't using leased lines are they?!). You have to plunge out 300 Yen for an IC card for each of these. I wouldn't mind having a joint IC though...

Defensor said:
Next up, House of the Dead 4 for 360 and PS3. I hope.
Click to expand...

Definately. I want Time Crisis latest installment too.
 
L

Lazy8s

The ghost of Dreamcast past
In addition to Lindbergh's advantage in RAM space, which could be used to decrease load times and potentailly store higher quality textures, it's also faster in pixel fillrate.
 
S

Shogmaster

Member
Lazy8s said:
In addition to Lindbergh's advantage in RAM space, which could be used to decrease load times and potentailly store higher quality textures, it's also faster in pixel fillrate.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't worry about fillrate. 6800GT's 4.2 GPixels/s isn't worth mentioning as adventage over 4GP/s of Xenos and RSX (if the 500MHz rumors are true. If not, RSX actually has 4.4GP/s fillrate, which is higher than the 6800GT by a smidge).

In any case, since Lindbergh games run @ 720p, fillrate is hardly a factor for either consoles.
 
A

AndoCalrissian

Member
Terrell said:
Sega had designed this arcade board in a way that (according to them) makes it very scalable to all 3 upcoming platforms. That remains to be seen, however. At the moment, all I see Sega moving things from Lindbergh to is PS3, and letting someone else recombinate the game code to 360.
Click to expand...
It doesn't seem like it will be too scaleable to Wii, given the big power discrepancy, not that I wouldn't love to see some of the newer games on the system.
 
T

Terrell

Member
AndoCalrissian said:
It doesn't seem like it will be too scaleable to Wii, given the big power discrepancy, not that I wouldn't love to see some of the newer games on the system.
Click to expand...
Well, I think "scalable" is more in reference to making something weaker on the graphical scale using the same chipset, WITHOUT pulling out your hair to do it. It can be a lot trickier than it needs to be sometimes.
Or they might just make a Triforce 2 board that has Wii controller tech as an option. Samba de Amigo ver. 2007 FTW?
 
K

Kangu

Banned
Lazy8s said:
In addition to Lindbergh's advantage in RAM space, which could be used to decrease load times and potentailly store higher quality textures, it's also faster in pixel fillrate.
Click to expand...

holy shit legendary thread.
 
S

Shogmaster

Member
OOPS! I've been pointed out by denizen of that other place that my 4.2 GP/s for 6800GT is wrong. I thought 6800GT had 12 ROPs but it has 16. So that's 5.6GP/s for 6800GT.

Still, with Lindbergh games running @ 720p, fill rate is still not a concern for PS3/360 conversions.
 
F

Fatghost

Gas Guzzler
vissione said:
Built-in HD display. Arcade-quality mechanical parts for arcade stick, buttons, etc. It adds up.
Click to expand...


Arcade machines are limited quantity and so have a tremendous mark up. Sega won't see any of the machine's gross in location except for the machines in the Amusement centres Sega itself owns.

So it's priced with a major profit included.
 
S

Speevy

Banned
I don't know why Sega isn't developing this game for the 360. The Xbox 360 hardware can absolutely handle this game with every bell and whistle excepting maybe 1080p, and even that's possible.

Ah well, at least it will PLAY the same. :/
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Shogmaster said:
I have no problem saying PS3 version of VT3 looks "demonstratably better" in resolution and AA, but to be fair to the lads at Sumo, they do have to convert the rendering engine to the EDRAM/tiling paradigm to match Sega's performance with the PS3. It's a much tougher job for Sumo than Sega.
Click to expand...

:lol :lol

WOW!
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
Speevy said:
I don't know why Sega isn't developing this game for the 360. The Xbox 360 hardware can absolutely handle this game with every bell and whistle excepting maybe 1080p, and even that's possible.

Ah well, at least it will PLAY the same. :/
Click to expand...

They aren't releasing it in Japan for the 360, so they're giving the PS3 version their priority.
 
T

teiresias

Member
Shogmaster said:
I have no problem saying PS3 version of VT3 looks "demonstratably better" in resolution and AA, but to be fair to the lads at Sumo, they do have to convert the rendering engine to the EDRAM/tiling paradigm to match Sega's performance with the PS3. It's a much tougher job for Sumo than Sega.
Click to expand...

So you admit the 360 is much harder to develop for than the PS3?




:D
 
J

jarosh

Member
1GB RAM 1080p 7800 6800Ultra 6800GT 4.2 GPixels/s 4GP/s 500MHz 4.4GP/s 720p 12 ROPs 16
fillrate unified GPU none traditional GPU 10MB render buffer EDRAM/tiling
 
A

AndoCalrissian

Member
teiresias said:
So you admit the 360 is much harder to develop for than the PS3?




:D
Click to expand...
I assume you're being cheeky here, but the GPU for Xbox 360 is completely different from the GeForce architecture, which both Lindbergh and PS3 run, right?
 
S

Srider

Banned
Tieno said:
What makes that arcade unit so expensive? Shane said it's 40 000 dollars...and the specs lists just off the shelf pc parts...
Click to expand...

Lindberg the kit itself is around the $2500 range. $40,000 range was for the VF5 setup. Including multiple lindberg cabs, VF.TV, and VF.Terminal.

You are basically getting 6 cabs in total for that price.
 
J

jett

D-Member
Shogmaster am cry. :p

Too bad you're not crazy enough to have a breakdown over this stupid shit, then we'd have a real fun thread!
 
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