And I said that past characters do appear in other games and the narratives do affect each other. Places and objects also appear across games. Why is it silly to anticipate more of it happening?
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Eiji Aonuma shares some details about Zelda A Link Between Worlds
- Thread starter Oni Link 666
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And I said that past characters do appear in other games and the narratives do affect each other. Places and objects also appear across games. Why is it silly to anticipate more of it happening?
Up until Wind Waker, each "generation" of Zelda existed in its own independent pod of reality and they didn't really touch. Ever since then they seem to like to refer back to OOT.
It would be interesting if they started mixing the narratives together a bit more. Putting them in a line is a start, at least it shows their internal canon recognizes a connection between games.
It would be interesting if they started mixing the narratives together a bit more. Putting them in a line is a start, at least it shows their internal canon recognizes a connection between games.
Oh boy, I couldn't disagree any more. If you've read the things I've read, i'm confident you'd change your mind. I had the same mindset as you at first, looking only on the surface at the message of these games, but there's so much more that this new perspective on them made me appreciate them more in different ways. I'm talking deep, deep stuff man. Prepare your mind for detonation.
I'd link you some editorials, but there's so many, and they're hard to find these days. Maybe if I have time in the near future I can try and find some good ones.
It takes place after LTTP/OoX/LA, but looks to still be before Z1/Z2. At least until further notice.
That said, having two Zeldas being present would be an interesting thing to explore, for once.
I'm new be nice
Member
Eh it's just my opinion man, and i'm probably wrong (You know more about this series then I do, and I do appreciate your time), but their appearances feel more like a cameo without really being overly fleshed out.
The one thing I read was on Majoras Mask, about how the overall theme to that game was accepting death. It was incredibly fascinating.
I haven't looked too deeply into the theories and discoveries people have made, I do love this series (even if I feel that it is getting stale) so i'll look into it!
the wind waker's story is really about overcoming your past and making your own destiny. it's a subtle lesson, but it happens for pretty much every major character. pretty much everyone grows from who they were into who they are at the end of the game- except ganondorf. what makes him the antagonist is that he can't let go of the past, but the king, tetra, and link are all willing to become different people. and i think the king's realization is that he isn't different enough, and for that reason he has to stay with his kingdom. everyone, except ganondorf, comes away with a sense of responsibility.
majora's mask is all about how people interact with one another and how they face their own mortality. you already listed it as an exception, but it is a main zelda title and i think it deserves to be there.
twilight princess is a little hard to pin down, but i'd say sacrifice is a big one. zelda sacrifices her kingdom and crown so her people may live. she later sacrifices her life or spirit for midna's sake (which is a turning point for midna as a character). midna later gives her life to save link and zelda. it's not just taking responsibility for yourself, but looking out for others. at least, that's the lesson midna learns, as she goes from someone very selfish motives to being genuinely caring about other people.
skyward sword is a mix of the wind waker and ocarina of time. there's a lot of that good vs evil stuff, with some of the taking responsibility mixed in. that's probably only true of zelda and link though. no one else really grows through the game (well, groose too, but that seems more superficial to me).
Ah okay, I kinda was confused by the quotes in the OP. It makes more sense for this to take place prior to Z1/Z2, though it'd be nice to finally have a game set after Zelda 2.
TP is about xenophobia. The characters start out hating others. Gorons hate humans, hylians hate zoras, everyone hates the yetis, Midna hates link and zelda, light hates the shadow...shadow hates the light. people make bad assumptions about the unknown. Seeing everything as just black or white.
In the end, Midna learns that link and zelda are good people. The zoras visit the gorons, and the gorons visit the zoras, The princess zelda lent her spirit to Midna and as a result learned to empathize with someone she assumed was evil. In the end Zelda and Link learn about tolerance and go on to most likely bring more harmony between the segregated races. Twilight Princess is literally about when two contrasting groups meet and begin to mix.
The only characters who stay intolerant and xenophobic are Zant and Ganondorf. xP "shadow has been moved by the light...how amusing."
T'was a good moral after all
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/10/16/how-a-link-between-worlds-rewrites-the-rules-of-zelda
IGN put up a new preview.
IGN put up a new preview.
oh yeah. i haven't played it in such a long time, but that's right. it fits into the whole moral of caring for others as well. midna just happens to learn it on a personal level.
mdtauk
Member
Oracle of Seasons
Oracle of Ages
Neither of these takes place in Hyrule. Twinrova are seeking to revive Ganon by sacrificing Zelda, and when that fails Link sets off to put a stop to more troubles rising from the ashes of Ganon. He sets of as a young man on a small boat, onto the ocean.
Link's Awakening is the same Link from Oracles, slightly older, on his way back to Hyrule after travelling in his boat.
So, there is a huge gap between A Link to the Past, and Zelda 1. So this is where A Link Between Worlds would fit. Taking place in Hyrule closer to ALttP than to Zelda 1 I suspect. It may also lead to an explanation of how Ganon was revived, in order to steal the Triforce of Power.
Oracle of Ages
Neither of these takes place in Hyrule. Twinrova are seeking to revive Ganon by sacrificing Zelda, and when that fails Link sets off to put a stop to more troubles rising from the ashes of Ganon. He sets of as a young man on a small boat, onto the ocean.
Link's Awakening is the same Link from Oracles, slightly older, on his way back to Hyrule after travelling in his boat.
So, there is a huge gap between A Link to the Past, and Zelda 1. So this is where A Link Between Worlds would fit. Taking place in Hyrule closer to ALttP than to Zelda 1 I suspect. It may also lead to an explanation of how Ganon was revived, in order to steal the Triforce of Power.
Don't forget that AoL puts a lot of space between ALttP and Zelda 1. Generations of sleeping Zelda hidden in the castle and the triforce of courage hidden by the king in the Great Palace.
shaowebb
Member
Lord Ghirahim
Member
I always thought that Link's Awakening happened after the Oracles after seeing the linked ending, I don't know why there were people who didn't know where to put the Oracles in the timeline. Perhaps they didn't play both before (or didn't link them for whatever reason).
Being a sequel makes it obvious in which of the three branches of the timeline the game is set on but the thing that throws me off is the recent Iwata interview where he teases a connection with Majora's Mask and this:
It looks like some guys with masks. Maybe Lorule is where the Majora's Mask came from?
Adventure of Link is a direct sequel to Legend of Zelda, and Link's Awakening also mentions Link being the same Link as the one in A Link to the Past. It's like nobody ever read the instruction manuals.
JaseMath
Member
Wait... What?
mdtauk
Member
Before AoL's backstory, the King had presided over a period of peace using the Triforce. So it must be in one piece before.
Both Oracles games show the 3 Triforces gathered together, but not united into the familiar singular Triforce - whereas what we have seen of the two united Triforces in A Link Between Worlds has them fully formed.
So that in itself may have a bearing in whether or not we place ALBW before or after the Oracles games.
A Link to the Past
A Link Between Worlds
Backstory to AoL
Triforce(s) are united
Zelda Oracles
Zelda 1
AoL
Triforces are separate
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
The Zelda from Zelda 1, and the sleeping Zelda awakened at the end of Zelda 2, who was a Zelda from generations before.
There's nothing there that really needs "addressing" though.
ALBW has to happen after the Oracle games. ALttP, OoX, and LA happen with the same Link and ALBW takes place generations later.
AoL says that the king hid the triforce of courage because nobody worthy of wielding it had shown up. Zelda gets put to sleep and then generations of princesses are named Zelda after. So a lot of time must have passed between ALBW and AoL's backstory and then generations passed before LoZ and AoL.
mdtauk
Member
The Princess Zelda awoken in Adventure of Link, is an earlier princess which was cursed many many years before Zelda 1's Princess is kidnapped.
The King who had ruled over Hyrule using the Triforce died, and Zelda's brother the Prince believed he would inherit the entire Triforce from the King. Except he was not able to, and he only inherited the Triforce of Courage.
He found a magician and asked him to find out what Zelda knew of the other two Triforces. He threatened Zelda and she refused to tell him. Out of anger the magician cast a spell on her and she fell into a deep sleep.
The Prince tried to stop him, but couldnt and so he killed the magician. In grief, the Prince placed her into the Northern Palace. He ordered all females born into the royal family be forever named Zelda, so what happened would never be forgotten.
He eventually found the other two pieces, but decided to hide the third piece, and that is what you are searching for in AoL.
mdtauk
Member
Actually, ALBW does not have to happen after Oracles. The Link from ALttP is not the same as the one from Oracles. Plus Oracles and Link's Awakening take place away from Hyrule, so it is possible that ALBW takes place before, or during.
It will depend upon what state the Triforce is in I would imagine. The AoL backstory has the Triforce in 3 parts as does Oracles. But ALttP and ALBW feature it united.
But I think that is too logical a thought process for this mixed up timeline
Actually, ALBW does not have to happen after Oracles. The Link from ALttP is not the same as the one from Oracles. Plus Oracles and Link's Awakening take place away from Hyrule, so it is possible that ALBW takes place before, or during.
It will depend upon what state the Triforce is in I would imagine. The AoL backstory has the Triforce in 3 parts as does Oracles. But ALttP and ALBW feature it united.
But I think that is too logical a thought process for this mixed up timeline
Yes he is. The timeline goes ALttP -> Oracles -> Link's Awakening. ALBW cannot happen before Oracles. ALBW happens generations later.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
There are some pretty reassuring things in this preview dudes, good Aonuma quotes. Like this:
.In AoL's backstory, that magician is supposed to be an alter ego or minion of Ganon. I wonder if that could have any retroactive connection to Ganon's ressurection ALttP->LoZ or have significance in ALBW. Probably not, but that's what speculation is for!
Minor detail, but I believe it was the King who hid the Triforce of Courage and divulged that secret to Zelda, while the Prince found he would only inherit the pieces of Wisdom and Power. Impa obtained this knowledge as well but didn't reveal that to royalty because there still wasn't a hero that could enter the Great Palace. Otherwise, it doesn't make sense why the Prince has the full Triforce and doesn't awake Zelda!
Minor detail, but I believe it was the King who hid the Triforce of Courage and divulged that secret to Zelda, while the Prince found he would only inherit the pieces of Wisdom and Power. Impa obtained this knowledge as well but didn't reveal that to royalty because there still wasn't a hero that could enter the Great Palace. Otherwise, it doesn't make sense why the Prince has the full Triforce and doesn't awake Zelda!
The Zeldas you rescue in the first two Zelda games are different women. It's the same guy, but two different princesses.
Considering that the Triforce has just been united and there are two legitimate heirs to the throne, and that this is Hyrule, where problems get big at the drop of a hat, I'd think there's plenty to address there.
Yay, like how did a no-name brat like Mido get a town named after him!
Well, it wouldn't matter because Link uniting the Triforces made him King. He'd just have to pick which Zelda to marry. Maybe he went with both; made his own triforce.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
I don't think there's any reason to say that some woman effectively ripped out of the past has any realistic claim on the throne. Particularly since her brother became king, and the presence of modern-day Zelda meant he had children, and his bloodline continued without issue. An ancient king's sister would be a lovely member of the royal family to have around, but she's no heir, awake or asleep. Maybe if the entire present-day royal family got wiped out somehow it could default to her.
If Zelda 2 ever got a sequel anyway it'd probably be hundreds of years later, when this is ancient history.
Fanfiction alert.
Besides, for all we know there's already a present-day king, they never really touch on the current makeup of the family.
The current family of Hyrule descends from a prince who kinda effed things up. Also the reawakened Zelda is the daughter of a King who held the entire Triforce, whereas the current Zelda is one who lost even the Triforce of Wisdom to evil.
I dunno, I just think the world of Adventure of Link is worth checking out. I mean, nothing in it just about resembles the Kingdom of Hyrule we've been accustomed to since Ocarina of Time. No Kakariko, no Castle Town, no Lake Hylia, etc etc etc. I confess I'm largely just enamored of the idea of a game set after AoL.
also, did anyone notice Yuga's earrings?
multiple entries' spanning story elements? Aonuma being a dick? obscure correlations?
Also the symbol on Fi's chest.
I honestly don't know how you could do a Zelda game setup after Zelda II without it being cheesy.
Ganon's dead, and Hyrule has all three pieces of the Triforce at the same time (and two Zelda's).
It's pretty much an end point, which is why Nintendo has been working backwards since that game came out.
Ganon's dead, and Hyrule has all three pieces of the Triforce at the same time (and two Zelda's).
It's pretty much an end point, which is why Nintendo has been working backwards since that game came out.
TheFLYINGManga_Ka
Member
I love the series, perhaps my favorite of all time. But I really don't like the whole timeline thing and having multiple different Links from different time periods or eras. I just don't like it.
Like Link Between Worlds...it's a sequel to LttP, yet it's a different Link. That's kind of stupid to be blatantly honest.
It's bad story telling and just really a mess. I know, I know, as long as it's classic Zelda, than it'll be good. But it's still kind of disappointing. There's no connection between LttP other than, "Look, it's a sequel!" But it's really not.
Like Link Between Worlds...it's a sequel to LttP, yet it's a different Link. That's kind of stupid to be blatantly honest.
It's bad story telling and just really a mess. I know, I know, as long as it's classic Zelda, than it'll be good. But it's still kind of disappointing. There's no connection between LttP other than, "Look, it's a sequel!" But it's really not.
The legend of a kid in green is one of the great features of the Zelda mythology in my mind - there's something vaguely melancholic in the repeating narrative of a young hero having to find his fate. Even if the stories are simple there's atmosphere and nerve to it partly because of this, and sometimes you get beautiful moments out of it.
They've done games set after Ganon was dead and the Triforce was in Hyrule before. That's kind of exactly what Oracle of Ages, Seasons, Link's Awakening and now Link Between Worlds are. To a lesser extent that's also the set-up behind Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks.
zelda ii is the original true end to the series though. and if you were to compare across timelines, it still probably happens later than any other similar title. i'm actually surprised they went back to the alttp/original zelda timeline.
dickgumshoe
Member
Scrap the timeline? I'm ok with this.
i'm pretty sure they're going to connect it heavily to alttp. the world is generally the same and one character is referenced directly by another.
as far as the repeating characters goes, it's explained in the ending of skyward sword. it works pretty well.
I can agree with this.
For example in SS, the curse Demise set in motion seems tragic to me. The idea of three figures trapped in a never ending cycle of rebirth is frightening to me simply because there is no happily ever after, evil will always rise from some depth. The rebirth cycle the trio must go through is certainly a theme I'd like to see explored directly in a later game in the timeline.
Whiskeymatt
Member
Wait, how is it bad storytelling, exactly? It's not a straightforward story arc when viewed at as a whole, but neither are plenty of other stories. I'm not trying to make it out to be some grand epic or anything, but it's hardly bad storytelling.
And I don't understand your complaint about the story of ALBW "not really" being a sequel before any of us have even played the game just because the games feature different Links. That's like saying TP or WW aren't sequels to OoT because they star different Links when they're both very clearly sequels to it.
Lapidus' Beard
Member
The ending of Ocarina of Time already did this. It refers to a Link to the Past with Ganondorf vowing to come back and exterminate their descendants.
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