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[Fugu]

There are other methods, of course. Donations, more government money, and perhaps most important of all, stemming demand.

The last one is perhaps the hardest to do. You have to break centuries of tradition in a market that is newly rich. There are many efforts to do so (Yao Ming, for instance, has worked for rhino conservation), but it's not making much of a dent as I understand it.

At the moment, donations don't seem to help as much as hunting does either. People love to talk about how important these conservation efforts are, but how often are they putting their money towards those goals? Not often enough to completely replace hunting permits.

Stopping poachers is also an option, but I don't know enough about what it takes to stop them as well. They'll likely dissappear along with the demand.

But killing the elephants -- legally or not -- doesn't stem the demand because the reason there's a crisis in the first place is that the demand far outstrips the supply. The hunters, to cover the market as sufficiently as the poachers do, would have to kill as many elephants as they do; then what's the point of doing it in the first place? I'd also say that it's unrealistically idealistic to suggest that the hunters will ever have a monopoly on the supply, and even if they did the instant they tried to use their monopoly to limit supply (such as by artificially inflating the prices), they'd just be providing the fuel for the formation of an even more pervasive and well-armed black market.

The real issue here is Africa itself and the ubiquitous lack of proper living conditions and the kind of governments that come along with proper living conditions. They don't have the means (or the incentive, really) to control this problem.

 

[Sheytan]

 

[moggio]

All this kneejerk. Come on GAF. Hunter != poacher. Their actions may not be very tasteful but it protects their species as a whole.

Maybe the elephant was protecting us from this douchbag?

 

[Eighty Deuce]

Yep let's shut down all paid hunts and tell locals to find another source of revenue. I'm certain they will find another way to sustain themselves without harming local species!

Edit- you want to know how to stop poaching? Kill poachers, demand is too high and prices are astronomical. Nothing is going to stem the demand short of a cultural shift in China. That's the cold hard truth.

 

[Reset]

Humans are inherently better than all other life on earth? do go on.

Well their lives are definitely more important than other animals.

 

[molnizzle]

Well their lives are definitely more important than other animals.

Because?

 

[Skyzard]

^ Because God made us like him of course.

This logic is unassailable.

I was being sarcastic, are you not? I thought the rest of my post implied that

 

[Roo]

Well their lives are definitely more important than other animals.

lol no

 

[Fury451]

Predator comes to kill elephant; elephant kills predator instead.

Nature really is beautiful.



...so does the elephant.

Yeah, your attitude is kind of gross to be honest. As is everyone's here that is happy about someone getting killed. Especially if you didn't read all of the information beforehand.

Not pro hunting by the way. Not that that's relevant, because the issue is people
celebrating someone's death.

I mean if that's the attitude, then we really should never mourn another human being, family or otherwise, because hey, they are just another animal.

 

[More_Badass]

If it is legal to hunt elephants and dolphins, it might just as well be legal to hunt humans too

Humans are inherently better than all other life on earth? do go on.

I feel like I crossed over into the Twilight Zone. The logic in here is absurd

 

[MillionStabs]

What's wrong with you people? The life of an animal isn't more valuable than the life of a human being. It's a damn tragedy, there's no reason to say "good for the elephant" or things like that.

 

[Razmos]

What's wrong with you people? The life of an animal isn't more valuable than the life of a human being. It's a damn tragedy, there's no reason to say "good for the elephant" or things like that.

Based on?
I thought all life was precious, supposedly. Humans have absolute power to decide what lives and what dies? Yeah no.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Humans are inherently better than all other life on earth? do go on.

When was the last time an Elephant donated to charity? Do go on

 

[MJPIA]

From a person named Dave fulson who I think is the head of the company the guy that died worked for.
http://www.africahunting.com/thread...n-of-chifuti-safaris-passes-away.22046/page-4

The report of stalking lion is incorrect, Ian and his tracker Robert were approaching a elephant bull in thick cover to judge ivory size when the wind shifted and brought a immediate charge from a determined bull.

Was curious about this and started looking into it and permit fees to hunt a elephant in Zimbabwe is $22,000.
(E) That fee price was the first number I came across when I was looking up and making this post on my phone and I'm not sure how accurate it is now, came across another site that states that in 2013 the fee was 16,000 for a adult elephant and 4,500 for a tuskless elephant and that doesn't include taxes so I don't know for sure what the actual number is.

Came across this article from 2013.
http://www.zimbabwesituation.com/news/sc_zim-in-conservation-dilemma/

ZIMBABWE is in a dilemma: Its elephant population of over 100 000 jumbos now far exceed the country’s carrying capacity by threefold.

This is at a time when the country is prohibited from trade in tusks because of a nine year moratorium on ivory trade, which expires in 2017.

The moratorium was imposed by the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES), fearing that it would stimulate poaching of elephants, which are threatened with extinction.

But now the country no longer has enough space to store its rich harvest of ivory and hides from elephants that are dying either as a result of animal control, natural deaths, breakages and confiscation.

With the US$15,6 million worth of ivory in its stores now proving to be an albatross around the necks of the Zimbabwe National Parks and Wildlife Management Authority (ZNPWMA), getting rid of the 62 374,33 tonnes of elephant ivory is as difficult as raising enough money to look after the ivory vault.

The country’s huge elephant herd, which is now difficult to manage and straining the environments, has become an easy target for poachers. Without adequate funding to carry out proper anti-poaching exercises, ZNPWMA is faced with a frustrating situation.

“Law enforcement requires operational equipment such as patrol kits, uniforms, radio communication kits, vehicles, boats, tracking equipment (e.g. GPS) which the Authority is in dire need of. Currently most of the existing field equipment is old and obsolete. The current scenario is that poachers are getting sophisticated. In some situations poachers are now using ‘high-tech’ gear including night-vision equipment, veterinary tranquilisers, silencers and helicopters to carry out illegal activities,” Washaya-Moyo pointed out.

ZNPWMA manages some five million hectares of land or 13 percent of Zimbabwe’s total land area. Its mandate is to manage Zimbabwe’s entire wildlife population, whe-ther on private or communal lands. ZNPWMA is not funded by government and is mandated to find own sources of revenue to sustain its operation.

Unless something has changed in the past year and a half the organization in charge of everything everything doesn't even get any funds from the Zimbabwe government, hunting licenses seen to be one of their main sources of funding and they are losing the fight against poachers as it is.
Without that money they'd be screwed.

The fact that they don't receive any government funding seems weird considering everything they have to do.

 

[PsychBat!]

What's wrong with you people? The life of an animal isn't more valuable than the life of a human being. It's a damn tragedy, there's no reason to say "good for the elephant" or things like that.

Hmmm I'm not ecstatic that the hunter is dead, but I'm not going to mourn him in any way.

 

[Skyzard]

When was the last time an Elephant donated to charity? Do go on

When was the last time an elephant set off a nuke?

 

[Prophecy650]

Dude died in a elephant hunting accident! What an idiot!....."Aaaahhh, I'm hunting elephants! Take a good picture, honey, I'm dead!"

 

[BreezyLimbo]

When was the last time an elephant set off a nuke?

When was the last time an elephant set up a sit-in protest to peacefully protest the governments actions?

checkmate

 

[Razmos]

When was the last time an Elephant donated to charity? Do go on

When was the last time a baby donated to charity? if that life is considered precious, then why aren't animals?

 

[Theonik]

"Ian was tragically killed by an elephant bull earlier today while guiding an elephant hunt in Chewore North."

Tragically is not the word I would use here.

Ironically?

 

[Leunam]

But killing the elephants -- legally or not -- doesn't stem the demand because the reason there's a crisis in the first place is that the demand far outstrips the supply. The hunters, to cover the market as sufficiently as the poachers do, would have to kill as many elephants as they do; then what's the point of doing it in the first place? I'd also say that it's unrealistically idealistic to suggest that the hunters will ever have a monopoly on the supply, and even if they did the instant they tried to use their monopoly to limit supply (such as by artificially inflating the prices), they'd just be providing the fuel for the formation of an even more pervasive and well-armed black market.

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that hunting hurts supply. Truth is, I don't know what happens to the Ivory that comes from hunted elephants. I assume they burn it like they do with what is seized from poachers.

Hunters aren't there to provide a legal supply of ivory, or maybe they are, I'm not sure. They're there to fund the parks. That means monitoring and paying for rangers

 

[BreezyLimbo]

When was the last time a baby donated to charity? if that life is considered precious, then why aren't animals?

Ridiculous comment.

Wait you'd be ok with elephants killing babies now? The hell is wrong with you

 

[dankir]

I ain't even mad.

 

[danm999]

When was the last time an elephant set off a nuke?

The later seasons of Babar got DARK.

 

[PsychBat!]

Well their lives are definitely more important than other animals.

I guess we're gods now.

 

[Roo]

What's wrong with you people? The life of an animal isn't more valuable than the life of a human being. It's a damn tragedy, there's no reason to say "good for the elephant" or things like that.

I'm not celebrating his death but from a mere survival/natural/basic point of view, I don't see how a human being's life is more precious in any way, shape, or form than an elephant's.

He had a family? Probably the elephant does as well.
He had feelings? Probably the elephant does as well.

 

[moggio]

Wait you'd be ok with elephants killing babies now? The hell is wrong with you

What if the baby was Hitler?

 

[Always-honest]

That must have been horrific to watch...
Ofcourse the elephant was just defending himself.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

What if the baby was Hitler?

touche

 

[BradC00]

Yeah, the logic is absurd. One of the defenses of culling is that if the elephant population gets to large, poaching will increase. "Humans have got to kill elephants, otherwise, humans will start killing elephants!"

the hunters pay tens of thousands of dollars for 1 old ass elephant which go into protection and conservation of these parks. protection meaning fighting off poachers who will just slaughter every elephant they see. without this money they can't do anything. it may seem shitty at first but it's for the greater good of the species.

unless you think poacher's care about animals going extinct and slowing down their killing in order to be able to continue to "harvest" the ivory, when it actuality they will get more money as ivory becomes more rare and when it's completely exhausted will just go on to the next "valuable" animal part like money butts or something.

 

[More_Badass]

If it is legal to hunt elephants and dolphins, it might just as well be legal to hunt humans too

Humans are inherently better than all other life on earth? do go on.

lol no

Hypothetical scenario: a man and his dog get hit by a car. Would you consider the man's life more of a priority to save?

 

[Riposte]

What's wrong with you people? The life of an animal isn't more valuable than the life of a human being. It's a damn tragedy, there's no reason to say "good for the elephant" or things like that.

If it bothers you, don't get caught up in it. This kind of news exists as an opportunity to emotionally express yourself while reveling in pent-up revenge. Threads where the "bad guy" wins are similar in that they introduce a challenging premise to vent towards (and build intoxicating vengeful power fantasies). Information like this is completely useless to everyone's lives except for its role as entertainment; it's like reality television. No reason to get between an internet poster and his daily dose of emotional stimulation.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Hypothetical scenario: a man and his dog get hit by a car. Would you consider the man's life more of a priority to save?

Of course not! The dog is just as important. Obviously the man has a cell phone and can call an ambulance, the dog can't. </s>

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Leave them alone then.

 

[Razmos]

Hypothetical scenario: a man and his dog get hit by a car. Would you consider the man's life more of a priority to save?

Yes, because society values human life over the life of animals, despite what I think, and socially it would be wrong of me to prioritize a dog over a man (which I wouldn't do anyway, why couldn't you help both?) and going further down the hypothetical rabbit hole, it depends on the injuries, the man could come away mostly uninjured but the dog, being smaller might be in a more critical condition. Context is important too.

It's a decent (yet flawed) hypothetical but not exactly relevant to the discussion at hand.

 

[Skyzard]

Thanks for the info, MJPIA. It's a real shame they are on their own.

Hypothetical scenario: a man and his dog get hit by a car. Would you consider the man's life more of a priority to save?

Depends whose dog and if they are foreign or close to you

 

[nubbe]

Hypothetical scenario: a man and his dog get hit by a car. Would you consider the man's life more of a priority to save?

I always assume that people I don't know are pedophiles, so I would save the innocent dog

 

[GIANKRATOS]

There are too many hunters. The elephant was culling their population. GG.

LOL!

 

[GravityMan]

Well, that's the price you pay for hunting an animal several times your size that's raging from having blue balls.

Should've brought a powered suit. Or a rocket launcher. Or listened to his scout/tracker.

There's a far easier solution...just not hunt them at all. And do something else with his life that actually contributes to society in a positive way. Y'know, actually behaving like a civilized mature human being with good morals and empathy and shit. That way, he probably wouldn't have been destroyed by that elephant.

BTW I'm not some animal rights activist, I tend to dislike them too.

 

[cacildo]

No selfie with the corpse?

I was looking for this joke

 

[TheRedSnifit]

I wonder how many people here have donated towards protection of elephants from poachers? That money's gotta come from somewhere, and apparently limited hunting shouldn't be an option.

 

[Roo]

Hypothetical scenario: a man and his dog get hit by a car. Would you consider the man's life more of a priority to save?

Are you serious? This is not even remotely close to what happened here.
Of course there will be circumstances where a human being's life will be more important. this "hypothetical scenario" was beyond the injured man and dog's control.

Just imagine you're walking on the street and then suddendly you see a teenager kicking a dog to death for no apparent reason. As you get closer to stop him, you see the dog bites the guy's leg making him bleed. Nothing important but the guy is on the ground almost crying. At that point the dog has several broken bones and can no longer defend itself... who's life would you save?

At that point I would be like.. fuck you, kid.

 

[JzeroT1437]

I've worked with elephants and have deep held beliefs that hunting them should be illegal. They're as intelligent as humans in many regards.

 

[phaonaut]

Thanks for the info, MJPIA. It's a real shame they are on their own.





Depends whose dog and if they are foreign or close to you

Damn, that chart is ugly. People are cold blooded.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Are you serious? This is not even remotely close to what happened here.
Of course there will be circumstances where a human being's life will be more important. this "hypothetical scenario" was beyond the injured man and dog's control.

Just imagine you're walking on the street and then suddendly you see a teenager kicking a dog to death for no apparent reason. As you get closer to stop him, you see the dog bites the guy's leg making him bleed. Nothing important but the guy is on the ground almost crying. At that point the dog has several broken bones and can no longer defend itself... who's life would you save?

That's not even a remotely close scenario either. Let's go deeper.

Let's say a man paid a family who's extremely poor, this man pays that family enough money so they can eat for the next few months and the only thing he gets in return is he gets to hunt their old, old dog.

 

[Skyzard]

Damn, that chart is ugly. People are cold blooded.

People don't want to admit to themselves that they'd leave their own dog for dead. Maybe they wouldn't.

 

[Razmos]

That's not even a remotely close scenario either. Let's go deeper.

Let's say a man paid a family who's extremely poor, this man pays that family enough money so they can eat for the next few months and the only thing he gets in return is he gets to hunt their old, old dog.

Eh, the difference is that the elephant is not their property, and even if it was, what gives them the right to have it killed.

 

[Laekon]

Based on?
I thought all life was precious, supposedly. Humans have absolute power to decide what lives and what dies? Yeah no.

That's a human thought. Think these elephants were condemned by others for killing farmers?

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...-kills-farmer-near-gudalur/article7013481.ece

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/458822/elephant-kills-farmer-near-magadi.html

http://article.wn.com/view/2015/03/27/Farmer_killed_by_elephant_in_TN/

Then again we are well off people making pointless arguments on the internet. None of us are in the position of losing our lives or livelihood from a wild animal.

 

[Razmos]

That's a human thought. Think these elephants were condemned by others for killing farmers?

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...-kills-farmer-near-gudalur/article7013481.ece

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/458822/elephant-kills-farmer-near-magadi.html

http://article.wn.com/view/2015/03/27/Farmer_killed_by_elephant_in_TN/

Then again we are well off people making pointless arguments on the internet. None of us are in the position of losing our lives or livelihood from a wild animal.

So are the concepts of morals and revenge which don't apply to animals.

 

[Skyzard]

Is that what the hunters are doing? Protecting private property...which can't be protected through other means. I know elephants really love their bricks.

Any excuse to keep killing.

The only issue is the government won't pay for their defense.

There needs to be other solutions, everything involves money, elephants don't have any, and usually the people who care don't have enough either or are helping others.

Sending spare army units or having them train on poachers would be good.