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[I am Christina Aguilera]

They talked about VI a lot in Nintendo Power. Same with Tactics Ogre. I think both were almost completed before they closed.

That was really just such an odd era of Nintendo Power. In the era after the Saturn and PlayStation launched but before the N64 did, it really seemed like they were grabbing at straws for things to cover versus the consistent blockbusters of the NES and early SNES era, since they could only stretch out previews of the same future N64 content so far. The Game Boy was basically in purgatory at that point too, Virtual Boy being a stillbirth and localized Pokemon being years off. That pretty much just left them with nothing to cover but bad licensed Game Boy games and fawning coverage of gorgeous-looking SNES RPGs that no one was 100% sure would ever leave Japan.

I was just thinking about Illusion of Gaia earlier today and giving the soundtrack a listen-through, so talk about good timing! Interesting that Jerauld wrote most of the story in English; I wonder how much of the final script is his original work and how much is translations of the Japanese dialogue.

I'm awfully curious about this too. One of the notable things about Illusion of Gaia always was that it was written by a Japanese novelist. Whoever was ultimately responsible for the English version did well. It was among the most emotionally resonant SNES RPGs I've played.

RE: Square in the US:
I think the SD3 / CT thing is a false dilemma. I mean, I have no idea if the idea that they had to choose between them is true or not, but if it was true, that was faulty reasoning. The US market was not swamped with RPGs, and the SNES' late life sales were decent enough that I don't think a release in late 96 or even maybe early 97 would have been a death-blow. Especially given the PS1's slow uptake and the N64's inhospitality to third party developers.

...

I actually haven't played much of King Arthur and the Knights of Justice and I had no idea it was considered to be such a pivotal title for Enix America. I think I might pick up a copy to see what the fuss is about.

I think the issue was less worrying about market saturation (though surely a concern) and more about just Square USA's limited resources to actually localize and market the games being stretched too thin to be able to do both.

King Arthur is an odd game. It was a licensed game for a children's cartoon (20th century high school football players get zapped into the past or such and become knights of King Arthur's court), yet it was surprisingly dark in contrast with the subject material, with some of the characters actually DYING-dying and you exploring through some sort of hellscape made of human remains to bring them back. I've played a bit, it isn't very good. Speaking of Nintendo Power, they did a little behind the scenes preview on the game during that same era:
http://www.flyingomelette.com/koj/scans/np-scan1.jpg
http://www.flyingomelette.com/koj/scans/np-scan2.jpg

This reminds me of this story.

http://kotaku.com/5747077/dragon-quest-vi-arrives-too-late-for-gaming-grandmother

:-(

Surely if that grandma was into JRPGs and was already 4 games into loving the DQ series, she had to have at least played the translated ROMs by 2011. Right? If she didn't find it on her own, one of her grandchildren would have had to have shown her between then and now.

For my part, I never understood how Enix America had the resources during the 16-bit era to localize and market one-off RPGs like Brainlord and 7th Saga, but not enough to bring over their main game series, the one with "owned DW1 with a Nintendo Power subscription"-level name recognition. It just never felt like it made any sense.

 

[The Spoony Hou]

I very greatly prefer the SNES version over the DS one, although the fan translation for the SNES version isn't 100% complete. You'd get some gibberish for some NPC dialog. But it's completable, at least.

Aw, that's annoying. I want to play it in the coming months. I knew it was incomplete, but I was hoping it was some really small stuff (like some kanji in the graphics or something).

 

[Aeana]

Aw, that's annoying. I want to play it in the coming months. I knew it was incomplete, but I was hoping it was some really small stuff (like some kanji in the graphics or something).

Overall, it's fairly small, unless you're the type of person who goes back to old towns to talk to NPCs after events. Most of that dialog is messed up. But if you're gonna do a straight shot through the game, you'll likely only run into a few messed up lines.

 

[Knurek]

Well, it does. It also sounds much better than the DS version.

Not really that weird considering the SNES version was handled by Hitoshi Sakimoto, while the DS one most probably not. :\

 

[The Spoony Hou]

Overall, it's fairly small, unless you're the type of person who goes back to old towns to talk to NPCs after events. Most of that dialog is messed up. But if you're gonna do a straight shot through the game, you'll likely only run into a few messed up lines.

Well, I do love to go back and talk to everyone... Guess I might as well postpone this game further. Thanks.

 

[CO_Andy]

Not sure if anyone remembers, but DQ was more popular than Final Fantasy in North America for a time (4 DQs vs 1 FF localized on the NES), but Enix done forgot and instead gambled on new IP instead of their bread & butter.

Makes no sense, much like Sega releasing no Sonic games during the Saturn era.

 

[KiTA]

Edit: Ah, re-read it. So they had DQ6 ready (as DW5) but Enix US died before they could do it, and DQ5 was never going to happen because... it would be too expensive? That seems like a weird reason.

 

[Psxphile]

Edit: Ah, re-read it. So they had DQ6 ready (as DW5) but Enix US died before they could do it, and DQ5 was never going to happen because... it would be too expensive? That seems like a weird reason.

Yeah, that's strange. The only thing I can think of that could cause this issue is if Enix was exceptionally busy with other projects and unable to spare anyone from their main teams to help program the regional changes... in which case they would need to hire more help and were unwilling to do that for something like localization.

Which doesn't explain DQ6 getting the greenlit for localization unless it was being done simultaneously as the game was being developed. Having a complete english script that early might have been necessary in that kind of scenario.

 

[@MUWANdo]

They were putting all their money into more promising games like 7th Saga and Brain Lord.

 

[Cheerilee]

Edit: Ah, re-read it. So they had DQ6 ready (as DW5) but Enix US died before they could do it, and DQ5 was never going to happen because... it would be too expensive? That seems like a weird reason.

Back in 1994, Enix said in a newsletter that DQ5 "will probably never see the light of day in America" due to some "programming problems".

Robert Jerauld just said that DQ5 didn't come over because... "money".

Basically, programming problems tend to go away once you throw enough money at them. Enix America didn't have that kind of money and/or Enix Japan told them not to spend it.

DeJap mentions on their site...

In 1998, there were several groups working on Dragon Quest V translations, with Partial Translations one step ahead of the rest. Owing to technical complexities, no group was able to extract and re-insert the story script, so the translations were limited solely to menus. When DeJap joined up with Partial Translations, we began the work anew, all previous programming and hacks and some translations were discarded. After a great effort by so many people, the project is now complete.

 

[sörine]

They were putting all their money into more promising games like 7th Saga and Brain Lord.

Actraiser 1 also sold more than DW2-4 for Enix of America. It actually sold more than all 3 of them combined in the west.

Dragon Warrior wasn't a big success at all and Nintendo's heavy push and over-manufacturing of the first game (which led to the free NP giveaway of hundreds of thousands of copies) was seen as something of a failure. Their similar push for Final Fantasy a year later went better but still not well enough for NOA to keep trying with the JRPG genre on NES, leading to Earthbound's last minute cancellation.

 

[Datschge]

All this talk reminds me what a shitty "clean break" (to put a positive spin on it) the transition from 16 to 32bit was in mid 90s. Completely killed gaming for quite some time for me.

 

[sörine]

All this talk reminds me what a shitty "clean break" (to put a positive spin on it) the transition from 16 to 32bit was in mid 90s. Completely killed gaming for quite some time for me.

Dark days, so many Japanese publishers closed doors on their western game subsidiaries from 1994-1996. Off the top of my head Enix, Square, Hudson, Takara, Taito, Data East, Sunsoft, Sammy, Seta, BPS, JVC, FCI, Vic Tokai and probably some others that are escaping me.

 

[Tathanen]

One of the most beautiful games on SNES, in my opinion, and it stands right up there with its peers. I feel like it would've done pretty well for an RPG on SNES.

Wow, I really don't care much for DQ but these screens are giving me such a crazy Chrono Trigger vibe that I don't know what I feel any more.

 

[Omegasquash]

That's a shame...it would've been a purchase. I drove without a license to go buy FFVI when it was released, and as much a fan of DQ as I was likely I'd have done something worse to get it. DQ6 is a really fun title.

 

[Lothar]

Wow, I really don't care much for DQ but these screens are giving me such a crazy Chrono Trigger vibe that I don't know what I feel any more.

For good reason; Chrono Trigger used the same art designer as all of the DQ games, Akira Toriyama. This was the DQ closest to CT in time of release.

Which DQ games have you tried? It's hard to explain but DQ8 in particular feels really similar to CT.

 

[L Thammy]

Not sure if anyone remembers, but DQ was more popular than Final Fantasy in North America for a time (4 DQs vs 1 FF localized on the NES), but Enix done forgot and instead gambled on new IP instead of their bread & butter.

Makes no sense, much like Sega releasing no Sonic games during the Saturn era.

Is that true? The way I understood it, Nintendo was pushing Dragon Quest 1, but that didn't work out, so they gave the remaining copies away. Doesn't sound popular to me.

They were putting all their money into more promising games like 7th Saga and Brain Lord.

Hey, Brain Lord is a fine game. Brain Lord's fairies could kick Nazi's ass.

 

[Tathanen]

For good reason; Chrono Trigger used the same art designer as all of the DQ games, Akira Toriyama. This was the DQ closest to CT in time of release.

Which DQ games have you tried? It's hard to explain but DQ8 in particular feels really similar to CT.

I haven't actually played any of them, I'm just kinda "over" traditional RPGs. Turn based battles, random encounters, grinding, the whole lot of it. Chrono Trigger bucked a lot of trends and managed to make me love an RPG in a way that no other RPGs of the era have managed. And Lightning Returns has kinda ruined all other RPG combat for me these days.

 

[pje122]

Can you elaborate on why? And do you feel the same way about DQ5? I played DQ4 a few years ago on DS and am getting ready to jump into 5 and 6.

Any feedback on this?

 

[Mr. RPG]

Wow, I really don't care much for DQ but these screens are giving me such a crazy Chrono Trigger vibe that I don't know what I feel any more.

That's because both of the games were made by some of the same people.

 

[Psxphile]

That's because both of the games were made by some of the same people.

I only know of Yuji Horii. Who else from Enix's camp was on the Chrono Trigger project? Akira Toriyama is an illustrator but despite doing designs for every single Dragon Quest ever, I've never considered him as an Enix employee. Also he obviously doesn't do sprites, so...?

And we are so talking about the sprite artwork and how meticulously detailed it is compared to past efforts for both companies.

 

[L Thammy]

I only know of Yuji Horii. Who else from Enix's camp was on the Chrono Trigger project? Akira Toriyama is an illustrator but despite doing designs for every single Dragon Quest ever, I've never considered him as an Enix employee. Also he obviously doesn't do sprites, so...?

And we are so talking about the sprite artwork and how meticulously detailed it is compared to past efforts for both companies.

I think it's those two, but the proportions of the character sprites are closer to Dragon Quest than Chrono Trigger. Final Fantasy VI and other games had similar levels of detail as well. I think the reason it invokes Chrono Trigger is just the combination of Toriyama characters and high-detail SNES sprites.

 

[RPG Wizard]

That was long thought but disproven by Ted Woolsey years later in interviews. Mana 2 and Evermore were both in production simultaneously, both planned to release in the west in 1995 and Woolsey evens claims to have a half complete script done for Mana 2. People tend to forget but pre-FFVII/Pokemon in the west action RPGs were seen as much more popular than traditional JRPGs on consoles.

Brian Fehdrau, the lead programmer on the "Evermore" project also disproved this. Evermore's creation and release had nothing to do with any of the Japanese titles, and in fact only had "Secret of" tacked on in the last month of production, after the game had already been built and made.

This is an excellent interview. Props to the interviewer.

 

[Dreamwriter]

Is that true? The way I understood it, Nintendo was pushing Dragon Quest 1, but that didn't work out, so they gave the remaining copies away. Doesn't sound popular to me.

Naw, if it was that unpopular, they wouldn't have brought over three sequels to the NES in the US - Final Fantasy didn't get a single one (though an NES Final Fantasy II *did* get announced...)

 

[Cheerilee]

Naw, if it was that unpopular, they wouldn't have brought over three sequels to the NES in the US - Final Fantasy didn't get a single one (though an NES Final Fantasy II *did* get announced...)

NOA published DW1, and they even paid to have it graphically enhanced over DQ1. And at the time, game sales were largely determined by what the publisher guessed the game would sell, and they apparently sold about 500k after regular sales and the giveaway combined, so it makes sense that NOA overestimated how well it would sell (they guessed 500k), and when it didn't, they found a creative way to try and boost interest in the genre, rather than whining about it.

Immediately after DW1, Enix America was formed (with NOA's help), and DW2-4 sold 150k -> 100k -> 100k, and from my recollection they were "in demand" in the NES era (I didn't get them at launch, but the price didn't drop, ever, so I had to pay a premium to get my hands on used copies), which suggests that Enix America knew exactly how much DW1 sold before the giveaway, and how many were given away, and they didn't want to over-invest and get stuck with a bunch of unsold product while their company was still in it's infancy.

Also immediately after DW1, NOA published FF1, and they sold a little over 750k, and I remember it being widely available for ten bucks (I saw stacks of them, literally), which suggests that Nintendo believed that the giveaway had boosted RPG awareness, and they had much more money on hand to bet that it was true.

On the SNES, the newly-formed Square America was more ballsy than Enix America, pushing games around 300-400k, while Enix America stayed around 100k. As I recall, Square games had a pretty normal resale market (not too high, not too low), while Enix games were in-demand and the resale prices regularly shot up.

Basically, NOA overestimated demand at first, Enix America consistently underestimated it (despite knowing that they could increase their profits if they put some more money on the table), and Square America got the print runs right.

Although it should probably also be mentioned that Nintendo had a game going in the cartridge days where you tell them how many copies you want, and then Nintendo tells you how many you're actually going to get, and it's always less. Square America might have been asking for a million copies of each game, which would have been overestimating demand (but winning the game), while Enix America might have been ordering exactly the right amount, knowing that Nintendo was probably going to screw them, but unwilling to pay the price of Nintendo calling their bluff (sitting on a pile of expensive stock that doesn't sell).

AFAIK, Square and Nintendo had a dustup over Mario RPG, because Square was upset over the games involved in making Nintendo games, and asked for the print run that they expected Nintendo to give them, not the bullshit number they regularly gave Nintendo to try and make Nintendo give them the amount they wanted. Nintendo got upset, and yelled "How dare you imply that a Mario RPG can only sell a couple hundred thousand?" And Square responded "Yeah, insulting, isn't it?" So Nintendo took the game away from Square and published it by themselves.

 

[Square2015]

...To bump a fascinating thread.

If had gone as originally planned NA markets would have seen:

Dragon Warrior V [DQVI]
Final Fantasy Extreme [FFV]
Final Fantasy IV? [Romancing SaGa 3]
Secret of Mana 2 [SD3]
Front Mission
Bahamut Lagoon
Terranigma
Tactics Ogre
Torneko's Big Adventure [Torneko's Mysterious Dungeon]
7th Saga II [Mystic Ark]

...wow