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Epicnamebro - Why do People Hate Dark Souls 2

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xuchu

Member
Epicnamebro - one of the very first Souls content creators since the JP demons souls release - just released a video addressing a tweet he got asking 'Why do people hate Dark Souls 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2642mAJQm0Y&t=0s

His tweet he references that he wishes he could take back (posted when he was working on the Dark Souls 2 strategy guide) is this one:


XS5sgUa.png


He makes very few souls videos these days due to burnout and other reasons but I think he makes some good points especially regarding Sequelitis - Dark Souls 1 was never planned to be trilogy or even have sequels. It got sequels because it sold well. If the lore and other things sometimes felt tacked on, it's quite literally because it is.

What do people think? Discuss and Don't shoot the messenger.
 
Dark Souls II is a great game. While I don't think it's better than Dark Souls, I definitely prefer it to III.
 
ENB made a youtube video??? In 2017? Holy crap. Watching now, I think he's pretty level-headed when it comes to this. DS2 is unfairly maligned.
 
As I'm about to finish DS3, DS2 will be the last souls game (including Bloodborne) I tackle and it'll have to stand the comparison to all of them.
I'll try to keep an open, unbiased mind about it despite all the shit I've seen people talk about the game, but years of "DS2 is the worst souls game" probably left a certain prejudice in my mind.
 
I think a lot of the hate is admittedly subjective. I'm not a fan of the combat mechanics, even if I myself can understand why things were implemented the way they were.

Although those hitbox gifs are pretty hilarious.
 
Don't know how much veracity I'd put on the words of someone who hasn't played the expansions
but Dark Souls II does still blow.
 
DS2 is fun, but it's kinda disjointed compared to the first for me at least. Didn't care for the core mechanics changes and only a few areas really stood out as areas I'd want to visit again in a future playthrough.
 
Dark Souls 2 is my favorite Souls game by a mile for 1 reason.

You can permanently clear trash between bosses.

I only play Souls games for the bosses and nothing makes me quit a souls game more than clearing the trash before a boss for the fifth time knowing it will just be there again.
 
I'm freaking out a little with happiness that he release a youtube video. He's a fine streamer but he doesn't seem to want to admit that he has a talent for planned out stuff more.
 
The Greek Freak said:
Dark Souls 2 is my favorite Souls game by a mile for 1 reason.

You can permanently clear trash between bosses.

I only play Souls games for the bosses and nothing makes me quit a souls game more than clearing the trash before a boss for the fifth time knowing it will just be there again.
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You can easily run past them all in the other games. Clearing trash is only a necessity in Dark Souls 2 because of the vulnerability while going through fog gates. Plus enemies just chase you longer and more aggressively than the other games.
 
Dark Souls 2 is superior to 1 in every way except the overall world design and lore.

DKS1 falls apart after Smough & Ornstein in Anor Londo, the pacing is all over the place and it felt like there was no continuity. DKS2 had a steady design from start to end and had enough variety in the environment to keep it fresh at the sacrifice of world integrity and believability.
 
I actually like 2 better than 3 surprisingly. 3 felt like a retread. 2 explored some unique concepts.

Plus 2 least put forth the possibility that the curse could be beaten.
 
I really like New Game Plus in Dark 2 and it's a damn shame that the idea wasn't revisited.

The Greek Freak said:
Dark Souls 2 is my favorite Souls game by a mile for 1 reason.

You can permanently clear trash between bosses.

I only play Souls games for the bosses and nothing makes me quit a souls game more than clearing the trash before a boss for the fifth time knowing it will just be there again.
Click to expand...

You do realize that you can just run through everything right? There are no barriers like DMC or Bayonetta that force combat outside bosses.

MKIL65 said:
He's right, it's much better than Dark Souls 3 especially.
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Ouside the DLC, I'd say no. Comparing the base game, Dark 3 has better level design, balancing and Bosses than Dark 2. It's more even with the DLC, the Crowns are pretty great though the Ringed city was pretty enjoyable but Ashes was a bit too short.
 
Plumpbiscuit said:
Dark Souls 2 is superior to 1 in every way except the overall world design and lore.

DKS1 falls apart after Smough & Ornstein in Anor Londo, the pacing is all over the place and it felt like there was no continuity. DKS2 had a steady design from start to end and had enough variety in the environment to keep it fresh at the sacrifice of world integrity and believability.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't enjoy the second half of DS1 either. No desire to go fight the Four Kings again....

As for boss fights- Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3 probably excel at this, since they cater more so than Dark Souls 2 to purely offensive melee builds. (And are more forgiving due to generous iframes and your estus flask not taking eight hours to use) The catch is that bosses have a shitload more health and perform phase changes during the fight.
 
People dislike Dark Souls 2 for many reasons, most reasonable. I dislike it because the mechanics are fucked up. I can forgive other aspects of the game being lackluster, but not that.
 
Plumpbiscuit said:
DKS1 falls apart after Smough & Ornstein in Anor Londo, the pacing is all over the place and it felt like there was no continuity.
Click to expand...

I love Dark Souls, but I completely agree with this. It's why I prefer DS3 and although I prefer 1 over 2, I think 2 is a more consistent game, regarding quality and pacing. 1 simply has much higher highs, so i enjoy it more. The first 60%-70% of the game is unbelievable.

None of them compare to Bloodborne
 
Bloodborne and DS2 with all DLC are the top 2 FromSoft games for me. Don't get me wrong, I love all the other Soul games but I put more time into BB and DS2 than all others combined.
 
DS2 and 3 are just more of DS. They're expansion packs, but don't even attempt to reinvent the wheel.

IMO the real trilogy is Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, and Bloodborne.
 
MagnoSauce said:
I'm freaking out a little with happiness that he release a youtube video. He's a fine streamer but he doesn't seem to want to admit that he has a talent for planned out stuff more.
Click to expand...

Yeah him leaving YouTube was a huge blow for me. I know, the VODS are there you can watch them whenever, but it really really wasn't the same from either a quality or engagement standpoint. I don't even care if he doesn't do Souls stuff anymore, I just wish he'd come back to the format.

Also he always said that he left because of harassment but I don't know, I always kind of had the feeling he switched to streaming because it's more money for less work. Which is fine, dude has his priorities, but it was just so out of the blue and kind of mean spirited that it left a bad taste.
 
DS 2 was the first one I got super obsessed with. I get some of the reasons why people dislike it and I know the issues at launch were super shitty, but by the time I played itScholar of the First Sin was out and I had an absolute blast with it. I loved playing around with dual wielding using Power Stance, it was so fun. I really missed stuff like that in DS3 (which I still enjoyed and finished).
 
Marcel said:
Doesn't this guy get paid by Namco now? Why should I trust his fanboy opinions about anything related to Souls?
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No he doesn't and never was paid by Namco. Only employed by Future Press for his work on the Dark souls 2 and Bloodborne guides. Doesn't even work with them anymore but feel free to spread misinformation instead of watching the video and hearing his points.
 
I'm the only person in my circle of IRL friends and twitch friends that likes DS2 better than any Souls game.
 
Ordinaryundone said:
Yeah him leaving YouTube was a huge blow for me. I know, the VODS are there you can watch them whenever, but it really really wasn't the same from either a quality or engagement standpoint. I don't even care if he doesn't do Souls stuff anymore, I just wish he'd come back to the format.

Also he always said that he left because of harassment but I don't know, I always kind of had the feeling he switched to streaming because it's more money for less work. Which is fine, dude has his priorities, but it was just so out of the blue and kind of mean spirited that it left a bad taste.
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He pretty much stated exactly this on his podcast (which he also never records anymore), so it's definitely part of the reason he left.
 
xuchu said:
Adaptability - tying i frames to a stat - smh
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It's worse so because the mechanics as a whole compound how unforgiving/complicated combat is.

Enemies seem to have generous iframes by default (I can't count how many times I've "hit" an enemy while he's getting up or during an attack/roll and not have it register, especially noticeable with NPC invaders). They also appear to have better weapon tracking, which when you're dealing with groups of them since the game really really loves the gangbang, it can be...

You get used it, and bosses don't have much health so you can usually pick up their patterns, taking them down in a few concerted tries at most. But still, it never feels "right" or "fun".

Still a decent game though, just not a great Dark Souls.
 
I never see people talking about how great it is that Dark Souls 2: Scholar of the First Sin on PS4/Xbone allows for a co-op party of four instead of the usual three. I absolutely love rolling with a group of four in that game. It makes everything feel more epic. And that fight against the Looking Glass Knight is made better with the extra players as well.
 
I dunno. I played Dark Souls II after every other Souls game (including Bloodborne) and LOVED it. It nails the pulpy 80s dungeon adventure feel for me.

The DLC is also particularly fantastic.

I do admit that the bosses are lackluster. I beat 80% of them on my first attempt. lol
 
Need to watch the video, ENB is always nice to hear his impressions , I jiggled when he did a BB run knowing he already know everything since he worked on the strategy guide but took his time to explain everythig like a tourist guide without nonsensical theories or already spoiling things in advance

MKIL65 said:
He's right, it's much better than Dark Souls 3 especially.
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Yeah, I mean Dark Souls 3 lowered the bar a lot.

Marcel said:
Doesn't this guy get paid by Namco now? Why should I trust his fanboy opinions about anything related to Souls?
Click to expand...

I think thats the other "guy" who overhyped DS2 knowing how crappy the game was
 
Ordinaryundone said:
Also he always said that he left because of harassment but I don't know, I always kind of had the feeling he switched to streaming because it's more money for less work. Which is fine, dude has his priorities, but it was just so out of the blue and kind of mean spirited that it left a bad taste.
Click to expand...

I love ENB and will respect him forever for all his work in Souls community and especially for getting me into the series, but I also find a lot of his streams to be sort of... boring. Aside from how much he focuses on dumb chat stuff (which I get, gotta keep your audience happy) he's just really, really slow when he plays stuff. It's agonizing watching him play games for the first time because he stands around and looks at everything. I wanted to throw my tablet out a window watching him play DS3 for the first time. I'll occasionally watch some of his past broadcasts, but I've mostly moved on to streamers like Lobos or Elajjaz who keep the pace a little faster.
 
Tying I frames to a stat was a good thing IMO. You had to choose whether you wanted to be able to have a good roll but less attack power or another stat, or have more HP or attack power but a shittier roll. It made builds more unique.
 
The lore in DS2 isn't what bothers me. It's more the quantity over quality op on content, and the general feel of the game being so thoroughly mediocre in comparison to DS1 and DS3/BB. I'm playing through it on PS4 and the animation locks, changes to iFrames and just the disconnected and unreactive feel of the gameplay ruins almost all the good for me : /

Which is bizzare because I still love it overall. It's a good game, I just think its the worst of the Souls games...but I don't think any of them are less than 7 or 8/10 sooo....yeah. Then you have areas like Eleum Loyce (sp?) which are so unique and atmospheric and make up for a raft of "cool concept, crap execution" areas from the vanilla game. I think the fact the game has like 40 odd bosses inc the DLCs and many of them are so weak they might as well be throwaway don't endear it. I'd be curious as to how many of the choices such as area count and bosses changed up when the game switched to Yui Tanamura(sp?) as Director.

The way the DLC level design is mostly better the main game (Iron Passage can still suck a lemon) is really spectacular though, because it manages to combine the high concept of something like Heide's Tower of Flame being a sinking cluster of towers at sunset, with interesting execution...while Heide is a pretty area but it doesn't really loop around or do something interesting, like when I explored Eleum Loyce for the first time and looped around on myself after a n hour or so of exploring...that was really cool.
 
I like it less than the other two Dark Souls games, but it's still really great. The Majula hub music is so damn good.
 
Ordinaryundone said:
Also he always said that he left because of harassment but I don't know, I always kind of had the feeling he switched to streaming because it's more money for less work. Which is fine, dude has his priorities, but it was just so out of the blue and kind of mean spirited that it left a bad taste.
Click to expand...

He said it was because of both. Basically why should he stick to a community that harasses him on a site that treats its content producers like shit when he can make more money for less work and have more fun
 
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