If Snoke is Plag and Plag created Anakin long after his "death" why the hell is Plag dealing with Kylo instead of making someone else?
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Episode VII - Just Who is Snoke?
- Thread starter MrMatt555
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If Snoke is Plag and Plag created Anakin long after his "death" why the hell is Plag dealing with Kylo instead of making someone else?
Herr Starr
Member
I'm not sure I follow. Plagueis created Anakin before his death, and his creation was the primary reason why Palpatine betrayed him in the first place. He knew that if Anakin were to grow up, Plagueis would kill Palpatine and replace him with Anakin. So instead, Palpatine killed Plagueis and began his long search for Anakin, not knowing where his former master had placed him in the galaxy.
If Snoke is Plagueis, he could merely be trying to salvage what's left of his plan for an apprentice, with Kylo Ren being the easiest Jedi of the Skywalker line to seduce to the Dark Side.
And making someone else is a very time-consuming process. Anakin had to be created (and who knows how long that took) and then had to grow up before he would be even remotely useful. With Kylo Ren, he had a semi-Skywalker already grown up and trained in the Jedi arts.
The Clone Wars Movie and Series and Rebels is Canon.
Since then, the only previously published material still considered canon are the six original trilogy/prequel trilogy films and the Star Wars: The Clone Wars television series and film. Most material published after April 25such as the Star Wars Rebels TV series and all novels beginning with A New Dawnis also considered part of the new canon, on account of the creation of the Lucasfilm Story Group, which currently oversees continuity as a whole. Characters under the Legends banner are still available for use as needed, even if events concerning them are no longer canon.
Since then, the only previously published material still considered canon are the six original trilogy/prequel trilogy films and the Star Wars: The Clone Wars television series and film. Most material published after April 25such as the Star Wars Rebels TV series and all novels beginning with A New Dawnis also considered part of the new canon, on account of the creation of the Lucasfilm Story Group, which currently oversees continuity as a whole. Characters under the Legends banner are still available for use as needed, even if events concerning them are no longer canon.
Bail Organa.
Secretly trained by Plagueis making him force powerful enough to survive the planet explosion(with some scars). After the event, he blames Republic/Senate for the event hence Starkiller revenge, blames Empire hence Starkiller planet to collect as many remaining imperials on it for the inevitable destruction at hands of rebels, and blames Skywalker family hence taking away their last offspring and training him for the darkside.
Obviously he'll try to convert Rey next to take final vengeance on Luke.
Secretly trained by Plagueis making him force powerful enough to survive the planet explosion(with some scars). After the event, he blames Republic/Senate for the event hence Starkiller revenge, blames Empire hence Starkiller planet to collect as many remaining imperials on it for the inevitable destruction at hands of rebels, and blames Skywalker family hence taking away their last offspring and training him for the darkside.
Obviously he'll try to convert Rey next to take final vengeance on Luke.
Fourth Storm
Member
I like the character design (although I think that concept render is better. I like the more withered pathetic loo it had going on. More human and less monstrous). I am still wondering why they went CG, and you're right, it is overacted. Hopefully they tone it down in Ep 8.
Oh crap. I had not heard about that panel. I think I'm coming back around to the Plagueis theory.
Perhaps he renounced the Sith after realizing that philosophy resulted in his near death. And who knows how long this regeneration took to accomplish. He could have been in a friggin cocoon for 40 years.
i just got around to watching TFA (really wanted to beat the crowds) so forgive the dumb conjecture.... but if Plagueis is at play in this trilogy, i have a theory about it relating to Rey's "parentage"...
being Luke or Leia's daughter seems a little too on the nose, so i'm more or less ruling it out. she obviously comes from some Force-rich lineage. maybe she's, in a sense, Anakin's sister. or rather from the same "source" Plagueis created Anakin from
i'm skeptical the trilogy will have anything to do with Plagueis at all, since the entire point of the movie seemed to be a Fuck You to the prequels. but assuming Snoke factors into the origins of Anakin and a lot of the unseen stuff in both trilogies, to me it points to Rey being the "second coming"... which also makes sense when you consider the OT originally planned for Luke having a twin sister somewhere far off in another galaxy, which is what the sequel trilogy was supposed to be about. Rey seems to be Kasdan retrofitting that idea
being Luke or Leia's daughter seems a little too on the nose, so i'm more or less ruling it out. she obviously comes from some Force-rich lineage. maybe she's, in a sense, Anakin's sister. or rather from the same "source" Plagueis created Anakin from
i'm skeptical the trilogy will have anything to do with Plagueis at all, since the entire point of the movie seemed to be a Fuck You to the prequels. but assuming Snoke factors into the origins of Anakin and a lot of the unseen stuff in both trilogies, to me it points to Rey being the "second coming"... which also makes sense when you consider the OT originally planned for Luke having a twin sister somewhere far off in another galaxy, which is what the sequel trilogy was supposed to be about. Rey seems to be Kasdan retrofitting that idea
Well, of course he would lie.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Snoke is the Star Wars Mandarin.
Fourth Storm
Member
I'm not going that far, but I didn't enjoy the performance in retrospect. Love Serkis' Gollum, though.
He was great as Martin Hannett too I thought.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGA6rmsnDkQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XI-w7LjSNi4
Not really. This isn't like the "Kylo is Revan" theories that started after we saw the first trailer. There's actually plenty to back it up, only thing that doesn't is Palpatine saying he killed him and being unaware that he can resurrect himself.
Honestly, that Comic-Con video has driven me to believe that Snoke is Darth Plagueis.
After seeing the film, I would have given about a 10% chance it was him. Then after reading a few fan theories with some very circumstantial evidence I gave about a 25% chance it was him. After Daisy's slip-up and the ensuing reaction of the panel, I think it's about 80% likely.
After seeing the film, I would have given about a 10% chance it was him. Then after reading a few fan theories with some very circumstantial evidence I gave about a 25% chance it was him. After Daisy's slip-up and the ensuing reaction of the panel, I think it's about 80% likely.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I guess Rey could be Plagueis' next attempt to "create life" somehow?
Jorok Goldblade
Member
I've seen it suggested that she's Anakin reincarnated to actually fulfill the role of the Chosen One without messing it up this time. It would make her rapid acquisition of Jedi skills make a lot of sense- she's not learning or improvising, she's remembering.
This thread has been unintentionally the funniest thing all day for me.
I remember him being really ham as King Bohan in Heavenly Sword (the game on PS3. there's also the animated movie of that but idk if Andy Serkis came back to voice Bohan in that)
I remember him being really ham as King Bohan in Heavenly Sword (the game on PS3. there's also the animated movie of that but idk if Andy Serkis came back to voice Bohan in that)
Chuckie
Member
Including me apparently haha.
JediLink
Member
Sure, if you assume that he has to be someone we already know which he doesn't at all. I think too many people are ignoring that the very real possibility that he's just a new character and we're all overthinking this. It's the simplest explanation that requires no assumptions and has no real points of argument against it.
EatinOlives
Member
I don't think she'll be related to Obi-Wan, but I do think it's too easy. They didn't even make it a twist that Kylo was Han's kid, so I doubt they'd play it the way they did if Rey was Luke's.
BibiMaghoo
Member
Palpatine speaks specifically about the irony of having power over life but being unable to save your own. It cannot be him, because he must be dead for those words to have any meaning. I don't buy that a sith master that becomes the Emperor just doesn't realise the master he murdered is still hanging around. I think the plagious theory is well off the mark, and only exists because it's a name we have to throw around. I bet my avatar and my pride that all the people saying this are dead wrong.
agreed.
Herr Starr
Member
This is blatantly wrong. Unreliable narrators is a standard and well-liked trope in storytelling, and Palpatine is definitely an unreliable narrator in that context. Why would he know that Plagueis survived, particularly if it took years and years for the guy to heal back up to full strength and he deliberately hid? Not to mention Palpatine's pride, which would cloud his judgment and make him dismiss any signs that his old master may yet live.
You're presenting a rather strange approach to plot and character creation in your argument. Most authors don't follow such unusual rules when telling their stories.
didnt palp kill him in his sleep?
He doesnt seem like the kind of guy to not get the job done.
I think having Plagueis as Snoke would be bad because it'd be too convoluted, no one really remembers Plagueis outside internet nerds and it would reference a passing sentence in an awful trilogy. this said, if he's not Plagueis I haven't got the slight idea on who he might be if he's something we're supposed to know. I guess I'll stick for the ride and discover it with the next movies.
edit: also, 'Plagueis' is a super cringy name like Sidious. It's like Darth Reallynasty. not that 'Snoke' is a cool name anyway.
edit: also, 'Plagueis' is a super cringy name like Sidious. It's like Darth Reallynasty. not that 'Snoke' is a cool name anyway.
disappeared
Banned
Snoke will be Rey's crazy relative or something.
"No... I am your uncle."
"No... I am your uncle."
i agree. Especially since this isn't what Palpatine _knows_ but what he is _narrating_ to Anakin, which could be somewhat filtered.
If Palpatine told Anakin "yeah there was this one Sith Lord, who was able to create life through the Force and after a failed attempt to off him in his sleep, went into hiding" Anakin would be like "GOTTA GO, GOTTA FIND PLAGUEIS, SEE YA PALPY!"
i still wouldn't like the Plagueis thing, simply because then he'd be even MORE Voldemort-ish.
There's already people - my gf included - who uses Harry Potter analogies to create structure among the various factions within the Star Wars universe. (The Sith are like the Death Eaters, the Jedi are like the Aurors, etc.) I suppose there's many more.
Don't forget Commander Nefarious, Captain I'm-a-bad-Guy, and Admiral Bone-to-pick
BibiMaghoo
Member
You disregard that he was murdered in his sleep. It's safe to assume Palpatine would have checked when betraying his own master to death no? To assume otherwise is to assume palpatines character was an incompetent fool. I'd also add that Palpatine could sense peoples lives entire star systems away. He knew Anakin was in trouble and saved him from another star system, but he doesn't know his old master -that he killed - is alive? For it to be Plagious, it would have to shit on everything we know and assume about Palpatine, ruining his character in the process. Not going to happen.
Snoke is new, or someone else entirely. It cannot be Palpatines master, because he would know he was alive. Tropes have little to do with it, there are tropes for everything, and that position could be represented from any viewpoint.
NandyRewman
Member
Do we know how Plagious is able to cheat death? Perhaps he was dead, for all intents and purposes, but was revived at a later date. Then Palpatine would believe he had killed his master, because he was dead when he checked.
Plus, if he is able to bring himself back from the dead, it's not completely unreasonable to assume he had found some way to hide his "life signature" from anyone who might want to find him.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
Only a Jedi can become a Force Ghost.
could u pls link me that comic con video?
Chuckie
Member
Well if it was that crazy it wouldn't have already been mentioned about a hundred times in this topic now would it
WadiumArcadium
Member
Don't be silly. Why wouldn't he be a character briefly mentioned in one of the prequels who the big bad of the entire saga supposedly failed to kill and that one of the writers of this film didn't even know?
BibiMaghoo
Member
We'll first we have to assume that what Palpatine said to Anakin was true, that the sith lord was able to control life, to restore it even. As some have pointed out, this occurs at a time when Palpatine is trying to manipulate Anakin, to pray on his fear of death, to sway him. If it was fabricated, it cannot be Darth Plagious as Snoke because said darth wouldn't know how to control life. So lets assume he was telling the truth...
It wasn't mentioned specifically, just that he 'had power over life and death'. Given that Palpatine knew he could in fact do this, and that he stated without qualm in that scene that he 'taught him everything he knew' when referring to the apprentice, then Palpatine would ALSO know how it worked would he not? Palpatine would have that information, and stated as much, but we know for a fact he does not, because....
Half an hour later in that same film, when Anakin confronts him, Palpatine says "together we will unravel the mysterious and save padme's life" or something along those lines. Which means that either:
a) He wasn't taught everything as he said to Anakin.
b) He was lying altogether about his lord having power over life and death. Likely imo.
c) He was lying altogether about the guy even existing.
None of these option add weight to the theory of Plagious being alive and well. We know factually that he did lie to Anakin in some form regarding this. I do not accept that while Palpatine can feel his new apprentice star systems away, he cannot recognise his own supposed master lives. But regardless, its likely he said that only to sway Anakin, and not because it was true.
Chuckie
Member
Who didn't know?
platformmaster918
Banned
The end of episode 9
Oh yousa be excusin dat gungan behind the curtain. Mesa big and wise!
Kylo shrugs his shoulders "guess Mesa been fooled!" *cue laugh track* roll credits
IIRC Kasdan.
Chuckie
Member
Is that the guy with the fake "Vegas? Darth Vegas? Vader?" line during the press conference? Because that actually sounded like he knew very well who Plagueis was. (Not that is proof that he is Snoke mind you)
Herr Starr
Member
Nope, I don't disregard it at all. I assume that he might even have been hacked into pieces and jettisoned into space. The more certain Palpatine was of his former master's death, the more reasonable it is to assume that it took many years for him to rebuild his body to the degree we can see in TFA. Plagueis can control life, which might take many forms in a fantasy story like Star Wars. If this theory is true, the likely explanation will be that Plagueis had taken precautions so that he'd be safe if Palpatine tried anything. Remember that the whole Sith hierarchy is built upon the expectation that the apprentice will attempt to murder the master at some point in order to become the new master himself. Plagueis would be forewarned simply by the virtue of being a Sith.
Based on everything I've heard about Plagueis and Palpatine back when Episode 3 came out, I think Plagueis deliberately held back some types of knowledge from his apprentice, particularly that of creating life. Palpatine lied to Anakin when he said that he had been taught everything, because he wouldn't have been able to sway him to his side otherwise.
It still requires some explanation. Snoke is clearly old and clearly well versed in the ways of the Dark Side. Where was he during Episodes I-VI? Being Plagueis revived, or Plagueis as a force ghost, are reasonable explanations. Perhaps he couldn't bring himself back while Palpatine lived.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Yeah but Lucas isn't writing this, we're talking about a trilogy that essentially started with a remake of ANH, filled to the brim with fanservice. Do you think the writers would care that much if Palpatine turned out wrong.
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