-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Eternal Darkness spiritual successor, 'Shadow of the Eternals', alive again ; Trailer
- Thread starter Dusk Golem
- Start date
Mr. Pointy
Member
Dude should have stuck with Nintendo.
ProgenitorCastle
Banned
That's wonderful! I'm sure it will be a great game XD
SinCityAssassin
Member
I was never here for that incident, but from what I read and what I hear about from interviews with Dyack himself, it doesn't seem like he's willing to give up control of this project and be supervised.
In fact I'm pretty sure the reason why he went to crowdfunding in the first place was so he could create SotE without any outside corporate influences because that's what he believes ruined Too Human and took away Soul Reaver.
What I'm saying is I got no confidence in him bringing this project together because of who he is and what is track record was after the Nintendo partnership, regardless of me thinking the trailer was still good even if he didn't do shit with it since 2013.
Just as long as literally anyone else is making it.
Probably Retro could make it work.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
What publisher is going to want to work with Dyack after all the shit he's pulled? The UE3 case alone has burned a continent's worth of bridges for him. He's on his own.
cartographer
Member
Most of the people they targeted with the Kickstarter probably have no idea what NeoGAF is, and of those that do I'm guessing a majority have zero clue about Dyack's behavior in regard to this site. There's plenty that even post here that have no clue until they get involved in their first Dyack thread.
I can't judge whether the game will be good because I don't believe the game will ever exist, and if it does, it won't be in the state people think. There's little to no indication that it's in active development other than the word of a sad rambling GGer.
They effectively ram two studios into the ground pursuing this. They failed to fund two Kickstarter campaigns a few years ago. None of this was because of Dyack's behavior on NeoGAF.
Most people just didnt care.
Mithos
Member
If people (incl. journalists), websites, governments and countries needs to be destroyed to get this game.
LET IT HAPPEN!
That's not true at all. Not only that, but the presumption or mass suggestion of Dyack has disseminated from GAF to several other channels including forums and editors on other websites. The man is definitely stigmatized, whether he deserves it or not
Personally I can say he seems like a nice guy who is passionate about creating. I leave it at that. I hope this game surfaces. Blood Omen and Eternal Darkness were classics.
Has been for a while. It's the place to go if you want people to irrationally embrace you by styling everyone else as out to get you.
SinCityAssassin
Member
Probably more from the whole "Anonymous sources calling him out on his behavior and management practices" than him antagonizing neogaf. Hell, he had to make a video to try and dispute the article that info stemmed from because the CEO told him to. And as someone who was never there when he was on gaf, I base my impression of him on absolutely everything but his time on neogaf.
Even if his time on neogaf looked hilarious from what I've read.
His rants against games journalism pre-date Gamersgate though. He was spouting that rhetoric when Too Human bombed and again when Silicon Knights went bankrupt due to the Epic lawsuit.
Milly Osworth
Member
In the end all people care about is wether or not they can create a good vidyagame. The kickstarter failed because there were too few backers, so why try the same thing again?
Him trying to steal another company's engine should have been enough to get him blacklisted from the industry for life.
DandySpike
Neo Member
I'm sure this will end well.
Dwight Schrute
Member
The game could be developed by Stalin for all I care. The atmosphere looks nice, I'd play it. When i see the crap that gets funded on KS, I really think it failed because people hated Dyack.
I'm pretty sure Dyack jumped on the GG bandwagon from the very start, and has been an ardent Gator ever since.
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
Look at this thread. Look at the hatred.
For someone who ran a third-party dev house for nearly two decades, and whose goal, mainly, was to try to make you good video games. I value creative people, game makers, and especially game makers who have helmed titles that are among my favorite games of all time.
You could sub Tim Schaffer's name for Denis Dyack's in this thread and it would look like something you could find on voat... and I would think the behavior and the bias are just as deplorable.
I hate hate. The choice of target doesn't justify it for me.
For someone who ran a third-party dev house for nearly two decades, and whose goal, mainly, was to try to make you good video games. I value creative people, game makers, and especially game makers who have helmed titles that are among my favorite games of all time.
You could sub Tim Schaffer's name for Denis Dyack's in this thread and it would look like something you could find on voat... and I would think the behavior and the bias are just as deplorable.
I hate hate. The choice of target doesn't justify it for me.
Ninja Scooter
Member
When Tim Shaefer becomes a GG'er you can make that comparison. Nobody hates Dyack. That would require more effort, energy and thought than he deserves.
Wait, we are talking about the internet right? Because the internet has plenty of all three to go around and back.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Not for Dyack. Not anymore. He's barely even relevant.
SinCityAssassin
Member
To the ground.
Katana_Strikes
Member
As always with Dyack; against!
Cannot trust or respect this guy after all his past shit.
Cannot trust or respect this guy after all his past shit.
Ninja Scooter
Member
It's been decades since Dyack was involved in anything even remotely "creative" anyway. To try and describe him as such now is laughable, all because you can't separate the past from the present. His notoriety now comes from being a punchline, a failed lawsuit, and for questioning the ethics of games journalists because they dared to criticize an unfinished game that he was showcasing.
If you put the pieces together from the Kotaku article, it's hard not to see this as being the pitch for ED2 that Nintendo rejected, right down to the one-room location that was mentioned.
Sheriff_Battlesnake
Banned
I hope the spiritual inspiration goes beyond sanity effects and time travel and digs deep into the Lovecraftian nature of the first game. Bloodborne has been my favorite HPL influenced game since Eternal Darkness, but BB was way too empowering, honestly. It nailed the atmosphere and the unfathomable aspect, but made a lot of things seem totally surmountable...
Hopefully this pits you against unknowable gods, leaving you only able to put them off for awhile, with their "servants" as the enemies you can kill.
(Well, the name kind of implies everything I was just hoping now that I stop and think about it)
well, unless you think about the "good" ending.. it changes you.
Hopefully this pits you against unknowable gods, leaving you only able to put them off for awhile, with their "servants" as the enemies you can kill.
(Well, the name kind of implies everything I was just hoping now that I stop and think about it)
Actually, you hate hate for hate. You're borderline asking for tolerance of intolerance.
I think I see where you are coming from. Gut check time: if we substituted a political figure's name for Denis Dyack's name would you still hate hate? I don't see the most of NeoGAF being tolerant toward many figures. On some levels, I don't mind it. As the songs goes, "But it's all right now, I learned my lesson well
See you can't please everyone so you got to please yourself..."
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Well he was apparently working with nintendo at first and it was going to be eternal darkNess 2 but then epic won the lawsuit and really turned nintendo off
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
Well, fortunately, the person I chose to (more than) tolerate is not a sexist and racist business tycoon vying for control over the most powerful military force on Earth, but an experienced game developer who actually created one of the best and earliest non-sexualized female heroines in games in my favorite Lovecraftian horror game, with cool sanity, combat, and magic systems, that he is trying to revisit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en4E0NYuJ2s
SinCityAssassin
Member
Bad track record continues to be sustained. And his main actions after that were to form his own company and buy the assets from the original one he ran to the ground.
...and supports a hate group that targets women within and around the video game industry and attempts to humiliate, shame, mock, and bully them in coordinated efforts. Oh, but hey he made a strong female character in a game. One step forward, 10,000 steps back. He doesn't get credit for not being an ass for one minute in designing a game character when he's an ass the rest of the time in real life in a manner that goes beyond the scope of one game and affects the entire industry.
Dr.brain64
Member
Really really liked the gamecube game. I wonder if they could release an hd version... with nintendo of course!
runnin_blue
Banned
Have you ever even been in the same room as a Gamecube? I'll bet no.
There is an anecdote I have heard from a number of editors and publishers in the NY publishing business. It is an anecdote that is always provided as an object lesson and it is a lesson that I think it is long past time for Denis Dyack to learn.
In the mid 90s there was a manuscript that made its way to every New York publisher and editor in turn. It was called "Milky Way Man" and it was, by most accounts forgetably terrible in a fairly inoffensive way. Not a laugh riot, some inklings of promise in its conception, but not worth the time and effort to polish and publish. These types of manuscripts make up the vast majority of publishers' slush piles and don't often occasion comment. What made this one stand out was that each publisher it was sent to received not just the manuscript, but a wooden doll that had been painted with stars; the titular "Milky Way Man."
Word got around between publishers and everyone eventually related that they had, at some point in the last few years, received this manuscript and strange doll. It was regarded as a curiosity, something to laugh about at networking bunches or industry award dinners. The manuscript was never bought, and no one ever really gave it much thought.
Apparently at some point someone the manuscript had been sent to failed to return the doll with their rejection. This led to several years of every publisher and editor who had ever received the manuscript receiving letters begging that the "Milky Way Man" be returned. No one knew what had happened to the doll, and no one much cared. There is a reason that most publishers and editors ask that you not include extraneous items with your submission. They don't want your bribes and they don't want to be responsible for your crap. Sometimes things get lost.
But the real takeaway from this story isn't about not sending crap to publishers. It's about the fact that this guy spent years, nearly a decade by some accounts, trying to get a story published that just wasn't ever going to pass muster. He spent years sending the same pitches and years after that trying to chase down the same wooden doll. He could have spent that time working to improve his craft. He could have been writing his next story, getting real feedback, going to workshops, anything other than chasing the dead project that he seemed to regard as his magnum opus.
Every time Denis Dyack pops up to try to gin up excitement for Shadow of the Eternals I just think about that doll, in a landfill or forgotten at the back of some dusty filing cabinet. You're not getting it back and you should be doing something better with your time.
In the mid 90s there was a manuscript that made its way to every New York publisher and editor in turn. It was called "Milky Way Man" and it was, by most accounts forgetably terrible in a fairly inoffensive way. Not a laugh riot, some inklings of promise in its conception, but not worth the time and effort to polish and publish. These types of manuscripts make up the vast majority of publishers' slush piles and don't often occasion comment. What made this one stand out was that each publisher it was sent to received not just the manuscript, but a wooden doll that had been painted with stars; the titular "Milky Way Man."
Word got around between publishers and everyone eventually related that they had, at some point in the last few years, received this manuscript and strange doll. It was regarded as a curiosity, something to laugh about at networking bunches or industry award dinners. The manuscript was never bought, and no one ever really gave it much thought.
Apparently at some point someone the manuscript had been sent to failed to return the doll with their rejection. This led to several years of every publisher and editor who had ever received the manuscript receiving letters begging that the "Milky Way Man" be returned. No one knew what had happened to the doll, and no one much cared. There is a reason that most publishers and editors ask that you not include extraneous items with your submission. They don't want your bribes and they don't want to be responsible for your crap. Sometimes things get lost.
But the real takeaway from this story isn't about not sending crap to publishers. It's about the fact that this guy spent years, nearly a decade by some accounts, trying to get a story published that just wasn't ever going to pass muster. He spent years sending the same pitches and years after that trying to chase down the same wooden doll. He could have spent that time working to improve his craft. He could have been writing his next story, getting real feedback, going to workshops, anything other than chasing the dead project that he seemed to regard as his magnum opus.
Every time Denis Dyack pops up to try to gin up excitement for Shadow of the Eternals I just think about that doll, in a landfill or forgotten at the back of some dusty filing cabinet. You're not getting it back and you should be doing something better with your time.
Anton Sugar
Member
Just finished watching these--good work, although the format confused me at first.
I didn't realize how the original campaign was (unfairly) dumped on by a lot of popular podcasts and press. It's kinda crazy how much misinformation was spread and how the campaign got a strong bias against it compared to other campaigns.
I agree that Dyack can be pretty shitty and petulant but I wouldn't have minded giving this game a shot, if it ever came out.
I fucking love my gamecube, but look at that stiff as hell animation at the beginning of the video - it doesn't really cut it
Very well said. This is a story that can be applied to everything, really. If something isn't working, don't make it your life's work to prove everyone wrong. Make something better.
Does Dyack really want to spend half a decade or more trying to recreate the magic of a 2002 game, as great as it was back then?
runnin_blue
Banned
Actually, I think the video still looks great 3 years later which is pretty impressive. It's not perfect of course, but nothing is. To say it looks like a Gamecube game is just plain false sorry. I love Gamecube too btw.
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
It took me a while to really put my finger on what bugged me so much about this anecdote.
In the end, I feel it perfectly captures a certain air of entitled condescension and presumed intellectual superiority. One that you've stated a set of NY Publishers did rightly feel at being repeatedly sent an unremarkable manuscript from a persistent amateur leaning on a gimmick. And one that certain members of the games press and this message board also feel, not so rightly in my view, whenever anything at all about Denis Dyack comes up.
But the anecdote completely fails as an analogy... since your anecdote would have to be modified to account for the fact that its shunned subject was, in fact, an author for many years, was there at the very inception of the 'publishing' industry, and held a track record of successful titles crafted both independently and as collaborator. And that the manuscript he was trying to sell was a follow-up to his greatest work, one that many claim to be one of their favorite works in the genre.
I am among this group, and have been for a while:
Lovecraftian Horror and Games
Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem
So, to me, your author anecdote only serves to better indicate a petty and shortsighted response in this case--and how different that response might actually be for a book author who actually fit your anecdote enough for it to be analogous.
But really, I mostly came back to post to you and say thanks for this.
KingJ2002
Member
Well... I commend Denis and the team for wanting to see this through... in spite of the criticism here.
Silicon Knights went through one hell of a roller coaster in the past decade (hard to believe it's been 10 years since Too Human's Xbox Debut) but I look forward to seeing this game at retail.
Silicon Knights went through one hell of a roller coaster in the past decade (hard to believe it's been 10 years since Too Human's Xbox Debut) but I look forward to seeing this game at retail.