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[SonyToo!™]

I remember alot of ppl hated on the trailers of Binary Domain because of Big Bo who was seen the token black guy. As a white guy I really couldn't see what all the fuss was about given the team was supposed to be from militarises from across the world, (USA, UK, France, China)

Now ppl have actually played the game, how do you guys feel about the game now?

 

[HarryKS]

As an 'ethnic minority', I honestly gotta say I don't give a hoot about it nor do most people, I believe. Some people are just fighting quixotic battles.

 

[tokkun]

Is it fair to assume 1% of the population is Native American, so 1% of videogame characters should be Native American if Native Americans don't actually play videogames as much as other races?

...

Let's set aside the question of whether there is a moral imperative for proportional representation for a second and just say that as someone who enjoys the escapist element of games, I would enjoy having the chance to play as a more varied set of protagonists. The fact that game protagonists are more homogenized than society is disappointing to me.

Other than the Prince of Persia and Aladdin, there are like... no brown guys in games (that aren't bad guys). Oh, and... Shantae? I guess?

Played a lot of this one as a kid.

 

[CambriaRising]

I guess these games didn't sell enough to be included in that study, but GUN is from 2005 and Prey is from 2006.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I remember alot of ppl hated on the trailers of Binary Domain because of Big Bo the token black guy. As a white guy I really couldn't see what all the fuss was about given the team was supposed to be teams from across the world, (USA, UK, France, China)

Now ppl have actually played the game, how do you guys feel about the game now?

I hated Big Bo, though I might be in the minority. He's worse than Cole Train.

 

[besada]

It's worth noting that some of the biggest movies of the past few years have been big because they stopped appealing just to men and brought in women as well. I can't even begin to number the amount of women I know who went to The Avengers because they thought the male leads were all sexy.

Appealing to just one demographic is foolish and myopic. We need more diverse casts, and there's literally nothing stopping us from doing that.

I have a great personal example of this. I've been going to comic conventions for about twenty-five years. I went to one about two weeks after The Avengers came out and we were all astonished. Not only was the thing packed like no other con I've seen, but it was packed with young women wearing Avengers shirts, clearly entering fandom for the first time. I was fortunate enough that day to be working a friend's table who published comics specifically geared to young girls and women, so I got to spend the whole day talking to people who were there because The Avengers had turned them onto comics, and nearly every one cited how amazing it was to see Black Widow kicking ass amongst the men.

In all my time I had never seen so many young women at a convention. Reaching out to people works.

 

[Off-Kilter]

The most racist people in my mind are do-gooders who like to bring up the issue of 'race' at all. It's not something I normally would ever think about.

It's sad that there are people out there that actually think this way.

 

[GhostTrick]

To be fair, first and foremost, developpers should care about making interesting characters, which is lacking for a lot of games. I don't care if my character is a white male, black male or whatever. I don't think people should make characters to please some demographics (which is unfortunately happening, which prevents IMO the diversity in term of characters) but rather make GOOD characters. And that's coming from someone you wouldn't qualify as a white male.

But this doesn't mean we shouldn't see diversity among protagonists. The thing is to not do it just for the sake of it.

 

[sn00zer]

I think writing minority characters can be a really touchy issue especially for videogames or cartoons where exaggeration is used. Would be a good idea to hire minority writers instead of just excluding minority characters in games.

 

[besada]

As an 'ethnic minority', I honestly gotta say I don't give a hoot about it nor do most people, I believe. Some people are just fighting quixotic battles.

You're welcome to speak for yourself, but please don't speak for others. And if you're not interested in the subject, this thread probably isn't for you.

 

[joe2187]

Funny you say this, since Japan did produce this guy that reps Bangladesh;

Ash Faruk protagonist of Front Mission 2. I wish the game come out properly in English (I know there is an unfinished fan translation), I hear the game is pretty good.

With a little tweaking.

Bam freddie mercury!

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

And yet lack of women is the real issue.....

Ah, love it all the same.

 

[CrackPebbles]

So...Donte?

And suddenly Dino is likeable, haha.


I probably should have played the spanish dub before I quit the game. Would justify another run.

 

[someguyinahat]

Let's set aside the question of whether there is a moral imperative for proportional representation for a second and just say that as someone who enjoys the escapist element of games, I would enjoy having the chance to play as a more varied set of protagonists. The fact that game protagonists are more homogenized than society is disappointing to me.

But unless developers have that diversity, can we even expect them to be realistically presented and not devolve into stereotypes? Is a stereotypical non-white character better than none at all?

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

This is the exact thing I was talking about in the tomodachi thread regarding certain groups of people not being represented. Sadly I am reading some things here that are reverse in there. Anyways the lack of ethnic people being represented in the industry is pretty frightning considering the fact that if someone wants to get in theres hardly any direction and one could automatically assume it must be more difficult to get in because of skin color.

As an 'ethnic minority', I honestly gotta say I don't give a hoot about it nor do most people, I believe. Some people are just fighting quixotic battles.

Well it may not be affecting you of course..Then you probably should not say anything cause it is affecting some people.

 

[sn00zer]

And yet lack of women is the real issue.....

Ah, love it all the same.

There can be more than one issue

 

[Poltergust]

And yet lack of women is the real issue.....

Ah, love it all the same.

Are these issues mutually exclusive or something?

 

[Kade]

As an 'ethnic minority', I honestly gotta say I don't give a hoot about it nor do most people, I believe. Some people are just fighting quixotic battles.

I mostly don't give a shit either but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't really, really happy when I heard the Somali faction sending a rocket into space in the Civilization Beyond Earth trailer and I can bet you there were people way more happy than I was. Whether you care or not you can't ignore that the vast majority of people do.

 

[hoos30]

Two pages in and no one has mentioned Lee from The Walking Dead?

Lee wasn't just a white character painted black, his background actually helped to define the character and his interactions with the other players. Really the perfect way to do diversity in video games.

 

[HolyBaikal]

I can understand how some people might think that talking about race might make racism worse, considering how nasty people can become when the topic is brought up. It seems like a lot of the world is full of hate and racism sometimes. And that sometimes people become more racist by arguing and having their feelings hurt.

Nationalists aren't people who like to not think about and not talk about race. And yet their talking about race doesn't seem to make racism less of a problem, it seems to be making racism worse. I don't think it's true when people say that talking about race will make the problem not as bad. Because sometimes it will only make it worse and spread hatred. I think that some people have become more racist and mean from talking about it and arguing about it.

I don't think it's about having conversations about race that's good. I think it's about having the right conversations. Conversations that will lead to more understanding rather than microaggressions. Racial aggression and hate is still a problem, even if it isn't the only way that racism happens, and systematic discrimination that most people aren't aware of is a major problem.


But I don't think that talking about the poor representation in video games is a problem. There is imperfect representation in video games and it is a problem. And not talking about it isn't going to make things better. It's not aggressive or mean to raise awareness about this problem. And being a "do-gooder" should never be a bad thing.

And systematic racism in all parts of life is something that many people do face. Something that many people don't notice. And not talking about it isn't going to make things become better. You can talk about racial issues in a sensitive fashion without people becoming nasty and aggressive. And people should try to be open and understanding to each other on the topic of race and come to empathize with each other rather than be aggressive. Racial issues can be talked about without being hurtful and without promoting racism.

 

[Muscle Wizard]

You know, you don't have to be of a certain ethnic persuasion to write and develop a character that is.

 

[2San]

With a little tweaking.

Bam freddie mercury!

I'm fine with all south asian guys in media looking like freddie. Resemblance is uncanny though, wouldn't suprise me if he served as inspiration.

 

[Phades]

... and nearly every one cited how amazing it was to see Black Widow kicking ass amongst the men.

In all my time I had never seen so many young women at a convention. Reaching out to people works.

I think the choice of actress, not just the character and how it was written played a huge role in this

Spoiler

An identical argument could be made in regard to Robert Downey Jr for iron man and Todd Hiddleston for loki

. Scarlett Johansson really sold it rather well. I'm uncertain if it would have been as well received in the example you are citing had it went far less or in a different direction at all. She was also really consistent from the iron man movie to the avengers and into the winter soldier, so it was very easy and believable to watch in spite of the setting.

I do get amused at the references towards "secret agent Robin" by comparison though. Not that she also didn't do well, but more along the lines of her role being very minimal in terms of screen time.

 

[Oersted]

This response is almost entirely orthogonal to my initial post. Companies are welcome to hide behind the bottom line if they like -- although inclusivity increases their potential markets -- at which point social opprobrium will have to do the job.

I'm okay with either. You can do it because it's the right thing to do, or you can do it when your customers hold your feet to the fire under the withering hail of social media. One of those is better for companies in the long run, but short sightedness is certainly common.

To make it clear: I would love/applaud more inclusiveness. But I fear we live in the wrong society for that. Minorities are the definition of not many. Capitalistic products are aiming for the many, for the massmarket. Transformers, Star Wars, your average white male shooter.. heck even Fifa doesn't even bother to include women.

To a certain extent I can see it happening, but not completely. But thats hopefully just me being pessimistic.

 

[SonyToo!™]

I hated Big Bo, though I might be in the minority. He's worse than Cole Train.

So you found him just plain annoying rather than any racism on part of the developers? If so I can understand that.

I think writing minority characters can be a really touchy issue especially for videogames or cartoons where exaggeration is used. Would be a good idea to hire minority writers instead of just excluding minority characters in games.

This was the case with Binary Domain imo as the game didn't take itself too seriously. Everyone hated on Big Bo but seemed to give the French Robot a free pass yet both characters were used as comical relief.

 

[BlackBanditSho]

Hey it's getting better! Right Delsin?

I bought Assassin's Creed 3 and Infamous: Second Son BECAUSE of the protagonists, tbh.

 

[Thorakai]

And yet lack of women is the real issue.....

Ah, love it all the same.

Lack of women, lack of sexual minorities, lack of gender minorities, lack of racial/ethnic minorities, lack religious minorities all fit under the same umbrella problem of video games failing to capture even a fraction of the human diversity available in the world.

 

[jon bones]

As a brown guy, this is very relevant to me. Allowing my character to be an avatar of myself is important for the way I play games, and not being able to play a colored guy (or maybe one who's not the Super Jacked Black Friend) really lets me immerse myself in the game more.

I think it's infuriating and insulting when people try to downplay the near-absolute lack of proper women and minority inclusion in games. AAA budgets don't help, as they fall to the Hollywood problem where Jake Gyllenhall gets cast as The Prince of Persia... marketing often demands a 25-30 year old white male as the main character.

Like so many other parts of this industry, Indie gaming will save us. The tools to create games are easier than ever to access and use - as more people make games, we will finally have a broader variety of perspectives to draw from in our video games.

And yet lack of women is the real issue.....

Ah, love it all the same.

The most racist people in my mind are do-gooders who like to bring up the issue of 'race' at all. It's not something I normally would ever think about.

jesus christ

As an 'ethnic minority', I honestly gotta say I don't give a hoot about it nor do most people, I believe. Some people are just fighting quixotic battles.

nor do most people? i didn't realize you were the elected Minority Representative for us

 

[FluxWaveZ]

So you found him just plain annoying rather than any racism on part of the developers? If so I can understand that.

It's a bit of both, but there's also the case that, like you pointed out, Binary Domain was full of intentional stereotypes and it didn't seem like there was much ill intent behind it. It's just that the stereotype Big Bo represents was extremely obnoxious.

 

[Pryce]

Is it really fair to include Shepard in that image in the OP?

 

[super-famicom]

Are there other Filipino/a characters besides Talim?

 

[CambriaRising]

And yet lack of women is the real issue.....

Ah, love it all the same.

We got all kinds of issues man. No need to keep discussion about them to a minimum.

Are there other Filipino/a characters besides Talim?

Nicole-458 from DOA4 came to mind

 

[plasmawave]

The latest JOJO game has tons of diversity.
It even has a dog and a horse!

 

[Authority]

In response to the first image in the OP: what's wrong with "sounding like a black man" or "having black hair?"

When I see my race represented in video games we are typically:

• Thugs whose only motives are to smoke drugs and get money (think GTA 4's Jacob).
• Extremely violent characters who hold gatling guns and shoot everything in sight.
• A Rapper/artist whose sole purpose in the game is to get famous and sign a recording contract.

Direct Source: Race in Video Games: Why it Matters... And Why Things Won't Change Anytime Soon

Games are not meant to directly or indirectly produce or support stereotypes. A black man, more important a black person is and can be non-violent, anti-drugs, educated person with intellect and integrity. It should never be a "black man is all about the ghetto, and the money and the bitches".

And all ethnic minority groups have got their own interesting stories and movies like Django Unchained that can be made into a good game.

 

[On Demand]

Eh. You guys should see real life.

 

[GhostTrick]

As a brown guy, this is very relevant to me. Allowing my character to be an avatar of myself is important for the way I play games, and not being able to play a colored guy (or maybe one who's not the Super Jacked Black Friend) really lets me immerse myself in the game more.

I think it's infuriating and insulting when people try to downplay the near-absolute lack of proper women and minority inclusion in games. AAA budgets don't help, as they fall to the Hollywood problem where Jake Gyllenhall gets cast as The Prince of Persia... marketing often demands a 25-30 year old white male as the main character.

Like so many other parts of this industry, Indie gaming will save us. The tools to create games are easier than ever to access and use - as more people make games, we will finally have a broader variety of perspectives to draw from in our video games.




jesus christ

The main problem here is that some devs are making their characters first and foremost to target a demographic, which is stupid. Characters should be made to be good characters, and not have characteristics just for the sake of it. I think that might be a reason why some characters are rejected, for exemple, I remember that Old Snake wasn't accepted at first because of you know, playing some 70 years old looking guy.

 

[Muscle Wizard]

Is it really fair to include Shepard in that image in the OP?

Well, the default and literal poster boy for the series that they presented to the public at large fit the criteria. I believe I also read somewhere that a surprisingly high number of players never actually changed the default character, but I need to search it again.

 

[RedSwirl]

Part of the root of this problem is the age-old lack of minorities in tech, particularly blacks. I have no idea what's going to change that though? Better representation in games inspiring minority gamers to make their own games? Better school programs to get minorities into tech? Either way I can't wait until it happens because hopefully that will cause us to start seeing more diverse subject matter in games.

I would at least hope we'd see this in the indie scene first but I'm actually a bit surprised that the indie scene (at least in the US and at least a far as I'm aware) is mostly white dudes. It seems even that tech bar of entry is too high for a lot of people.

 

[Alo81]

Dark Souls 2 got you covered

No hair even visible, has a wizardy voice, loves magic, no guns, and he's a pretty badass , powerful dude.

 

[joe2187]

And yet lack of women is the real issue.....

Ah, love it all the same.

The thought of an ethnic non-white female MC scares the monies away though. Gotta think about them demographics and focus groups though.

 

[Creaking]

Are there other Filipino/a characters besides Talim?

I just realized how twisted her body is to do that godawful boobs+butt pose. She's supposed to be something like 15 too.

 

[HarryKS]

You're welcome to speak for yourself, but please don't speak for others. And if you're not interested in the subject, this thread probably isn't for you.

I am interested. That's why I posted something. I did not speak for others. I shared my mind as to what I feel others belonging to my ethnic group would feel about the matter at hand. Maybe you feel I'm not qualified to do that. I'd argue I am.

Video game characters(mainstream) do not exactly represent what you'd like to be. They are not role models. There is no message to propagate or convey.

 

[Stumpokapow]

And yet lack of women is the real issue.....

Ah, love it all the same.

Selfishness is when you have a problem and you look at other problems and say "My problem is worse, pay attention to me"

Empathy is when you have a problem and and look at other problems and say "I've been through stuff myself, and I know how it hurts. How can I help?"

 

[MThanded]

The most racist people in my mind are do-gooders who like to bring up the issue of 'race' at all. It's not something I normally would ever think about.

what is a do-gooder?

And yet lack of women is the real issue.....

Ah, love it all the same.

What is a "real issue"?

 

[RMS Gigantic]

Rather puzzling about autism's under-representation as well is that autistic people spend more time playing video games than neurotypicical people.

It defies ideas like "video game companies give their players protagonists they can relate to".

 

[jon bones]

I am interested. That's why I posted something. I did not speak for others. I shared my mind as to what I feel others belonging to my ethnic group would feel about the matter at hand. Maybe you feel I'm not qualified to do that. I'd argue I am.

Video game characters(mainstream) do not exactly represent what you'd like to be. They are not role models. There is no message to propagate or convey.

You're not.

 

[Muscle Wizard]

Direct Source: Race in Video Games: Why it Matters... And Why Things Won't Change Anytime Soon

Games are not meant to directly or indirectly produce or support stereotypes. A black man, more important a black person is and can be non-violent, anti-drugs, educated person with intellect and integrity. It should never be a "black man is all about the ghetto, and the money and the bitches".

And all ethnic minority groups have got their own interesting stories and movies like Django Unchained that can be made into a good game.

Not to deride your point, but Salvador is Hispanic.

 

[besada]

To make it clear: I would love/applaud more inclusiveness. But I fear we live in the wrong society for that. Minorities are the definition of not many. Capitalistic products are aiming for the many, for the massmarket. Transformers, Star Wars, your average white male shooter.. heck even Fifa doesn't even bother to include women.

To a certain extent I can it happening, but completely. But thats hopefully just me being pessimistic.

That's one of the reasons talking about this is important. I don't need to be black to think its important to represent black people in video games. I don't need to be a woman to think women should be represented. Instead, as a being capable of empathy, I stand in solidarity with them. It's not just minorities companies will have to placate, but those of us in the majority, who stand in solidarity. And the more we discuss it reasonably, the more non-minorities will understand this.

As one of my favorite songs says, "Freedom is merely privilege extended, unless enjoyed by one and all."

 

[Gentleman Jack]

I just realized how twisted her body is to do that godawful boobs+butt pose. She's supposed to be something like 15 too.

Soul Calibur!

 

[On Demand]

Remember when GTA San Adreas was announced? It's like....ok, you're not the only race that exist on this planet. Sorry.