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[TheCarrotKiller]

This is something I love with DRIVECLUB, the idea with the different coloured flags at each turn has made me independent of the mini-map and has made me experiance driving in a completely new way. It's a really good way to assist players before they know the circuit or distance by their own hand.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

It's a bit polarising.

I see the perspective that it breaks immersion due to having this artificial hud plastered over the scene itself, but for me, having to switch to a full map instead of glancing at something in a corner breaks the immersion considerably more, as I have to actually stop what I'm doing and consciously look around a map.

 

[Sakujou]

Again, saying to not have a minimap is not the same thing as saying no map at all.

same goes for a mini map which can be zoomed in while playing your game. it may break the gameplay, but pausing the game, fiddling in the menu to see the map (burnout paradise) and getting back to the game was the game breaker for me. also a super confusing way to get around in the game wasnt really helpful.

 

[Gsnap]

But you could get rid of mini maps without getting rid of maps. Simply provide a full map on a separate screen that could be brought up if you are lost. Can be combined with Destiny-style destination markers if needed.

True, but in certain styles of games I feel like people would dislike that a lot. If you're going from point A to point B in GTA, I don't think people are going to want to stop at every turn to check a map and make sure that they're going the right way.

I think separate maps work really well in certain games like Zelda or something. Which are slower and more methodical and you have an entire dungeon to navigate (which are even designed in a way that they can be completed without a map).

But in most open world games, the biggest issue is the A to B navigation, which can be made really tedious by a separate menu map.

 

[jblank83]

You must be kidding.

You haven't played enough types of games if you think mini-maps should be deleted from existence forever. In Etrian Odyssey, Legend of Grimrock and similar dungeon heavy games, like Diablo, for instance, it's almost a necessity. If FPS developers are abusing its design, that's their problem.

At worst, it can be an option. Demanding it be stricken from all games is asinine, though.

I see the perspective that it breaks immersion due to having this artificial hud plastered over the scene itself, but for me, having to switch to a full map instead of glancing at something in a corner breaks the immersion considerably more, as I have to actually stop what I'm doing and consciously look around a map.

I agree. Sometimes that's alright, depending on the game. Sometimes it breaks the flow of the game. Sometimes it's the entire point of the game, like Miasmata.

But you can't dictate design for all games based on small set of games.

 

[Damerman]

Turning off the mini-map in a GTA really helps you get to know the city. It feels like a whole other way to play.

i had no clue you could do that... will do it for my PS4 walkthrough.

 

[freakzilla149]

Unfortunately, for me this is not a real option. I genuinely have no sense of direction, I get lost in my own hometown as if I was a tourist. I get lost in video games just as much.

I get the idea though.

 

[cjp]

I'd pay good money to have this little trail of dots on Google or Apple Maps in the real world. Many times I'm using these maps and get frustrated because while I know my position, I don't know which direction I'm facing. I end up having to walk 100 meters or so in a random direction, see where the dot moves on my phone, then go back to the starting point. Why can't these companies learn what video game makers have known for years?

I guess you haven't realised both the Apple Maps and Google Maps apps have a built in compass. They've had them for as long as I can remember.

 

[MissDeviling]

DQ8 was fantastic for this. NPCS would give me directions I could follow without looking at the map at all (follow the river south, keeping the church in view, till you reach a cave etc.). The on-screen compass really helped but wasn't as helpful as a minimap, so you'd rely on how you visualized those directions in your mind as though you were really travelling. DQ8's exploration was the epitome of immersion.

 

[conman]

Agree wholeheartedly.

Minimaps are just one part of a larger trend toward hand-holding and treating players like idiots. Minimaps also have led to less interesting level/world design. Rather than allowing the environment to be the guide, designers just throw a few blinking lights on a minimap. Often just getting rid of the minimap in the HUD options isn't enough because the game wasn't designed to be played without one. But some games work brilliantly in their absence.

 

[autoduelist]

I like minimaps for open world games. Getting lost sucks, and sometimes I just want to get to the next location.

For those claiming designers just need to do a better job showing where to go in game... I've yet to hear an actually good solution for this. If you're in a huge city, how exactly do you show the player a nice clean route to another borough via non-intrusive in game elements? At least the minimap gives them a general direction as to where to go.

Some of the biggest complaints in games used to be 'It's too easy to get lost' or 'I don't know what to do next' before players quit the game in frustration.

Agree wholeheartedly.

Minimaps are just one part of a larger trend toward hand-holding and treating players like idiots. Minimaps also have led to less interesting level/world design. Rather than allowing the environment to be the guide, designers just throw a few blinking lights on a minimap. Often just getting rid of the minimap in the HUD options isn't enough because the game wasn't designed to be played without one. But some games work brilliantly in their absence.

I don't understand this at all.

You're in the middle of a city street in a game simulating New York.

How is the environment supposed to 'be the guide' to get to a house in Brooklyn where the next mission starts? It doesn't make any sense to me. I mean, sure, signs can occasionally point to Brooklyn, but you can't have those everywhere and it could easily get frustrated looking for one. And even once you're in Brooklyn, how does the environment indicate where a specific house is? What if the player doesn't remember where they're supposed to be going? Is the player supposed to get out of the car and ask for directions "Do you know where the crimelord lives?... Yes? Two lefts then a right? Thanks!"

That game sounds awful to me... GTA6: Lost and Disoriented in San Andreas.

You must be kidding.

You haven't played enough types of games if you think mini-maps should be deleted from existence forever. In Etrian Odyssey, Legend of Grimrock and similar dungeon heavy games, like Diablo, for instance, it's almost a necessity. If FPS developers are abusing its design, that's their problem.

At worst, it can be an option. Demanding it be stricken from all games is asinine, though.

I agree. Sometimes that's alright, depending on the game. Sometimes it breaks the flow of the game. Sometimes it's the entire point of the game, like Miasmata.

But you can't dictate design for all games based on small set of games.

As much as I agree with your overall point, I do think dungeon crawlers (like the ones you mention) are perfect for old school grid paper mapping that really adds to immersion. It's not for everyone, though. Fixed tunnels/dungeons are suitable for hand mapping (and even benefit from it, since some traps use disorientation as a weapon, like spinning). The worlds of GTA, or AC, however, benefit greatly from minimaps.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Main reason I like mini-maps is because it saves me the trouble of bringing up the full map constantly.

 

[ComputerBlue]

Turning off the mini-map in a GTA really helps you get to know the city. It feels like a whole other way to play.

Definitely, turning it off makes a huge difference and you actually pay attention to your surroundings instead of staring down at the GPS every few second.

I'd like the mini map to go away from multiplayer games too.

 

[Gsnap]

I like minimaps for open world games. Getting lost sucks, and sometimes I just want to get to the next location.

For those claiming designers just need to do a better job showing where to go in game... I've yet to hear an actually good solution for this. If you're in a huge city, how exactly do you show the player a nice clean route to another borough via non-intrusive in game elements? At least the minimap gives them a general direction as to where to go.

Some of the biggest complaints in games used to be 'It's too easy to get lost' or 'I don't know what to do next' before players quit the game in frustration.



I don't understand this at all.

You're in the middle of a city street in a game simulating New York.

How is the environment supposed to 'be the guide' to get to a house in Brooklyn where the next mission starts? It doesn't make any sense to me. I mean, sure, signs can occasionally point to Brooklyn, but you can't have those everywhere and it could easily get frustrated looking for one. What if the player doesn't remember where they're supposed to be going? Is the player supposed to get out of the car and ask for directions?

That game sounds awful to me... GTA6: Lost and Disoriented in San Andreas.

I feel like people who have such an issue with mini maps aren't actually complaining about the maps themselves, but rather the need for them in the first place. Which ultimately boils down to people wishing that designers would stop making games in huge cities where it's impossible to create good level design that allows the player to navigate without a map.

I mean, I know that's how I feel. I guess people like us just feel disenchanted with the whole thing and wish more games would put a heavier focus on level design.

 

[Seanspeed]

same goes for a mini map which can be zoomed in while playing your game. it may break the gameplay, but pausing the game, fiddling in the menu to see the map (burnout paradise) and getting back to the game was the game breaker for me. also a super confusing way to get around in the game wasnt really helpful.

For the record, I don't want to see minimaps completely taken out, I just want the option to be able to turn them off and have the game playable still.

I understand not everybody wants to play this way.

 

[gigantor21]

For the record, I don't want to see minimaps completely taken out, I just want the option to be able to turn them off and have the game playable still.

I understand not everybody wants to play this way.

That's entirely fair. Making it optional means that everyone can get what they want.

 

[jacobeid]

i turned off everything on the HUD in Horizon 2 immediately. So much better. Interior cockpit view for the speedometer....wowza. What a game.

 

[BkMogul]

GAF is reading my mind. I've just started up Watch Dogs and I found myself looking at the map more than the actual game. It seems we've been fine-tuned to behave this way, but it's always good to switch it up abit.

 

[Pinewood]

Having a buttpn to quickly display the minimap seems like great way to fix this and it also makes sense in the context of modern games, like pulling out your phone or looking at the gps in GTA for example.

 

[NullPointer]

Options. Options. Options.

Don't force your preferences on others.

Minimaps today, even when optional, are themselves forced by way of the game's design. That's really the issue, not removing it as an option for other players. You're screwed if you remove it from most games, if not all of the time then at least a good portion of the time.

I can agree with this. A long time ago when I was playing Assassin's Creed 1 for the first time, someone told me to disable the mini-map and just use the map in the pause screen. Having played already a few hours before that with the mini-map, I could clearly see the large impact this little tweak had on me. Sure, I was taking far longer to get anything done, but my playstyle became a lot more immersive. I started looking for recognisable structures on the map and trying to find it in the actual city. This in turn made me a lot more familiar with the city layout, which I could use to my advantage during actual missions. Before all of that, I would just follow one marker to the next. The travelling portions felt like padding and a chore. Made me wish I could fast travel right to where I needed to be.

Great post. This is exactly what happens when you disable those things and look out into the world for cues. If the open world design is decent then its all you need. And like you say, you get to know the environments in such a way that you're prepared better to use that knowledge when you need it.

 

[jblank83]

As much as I agree with your overall point, I do think dungeon crawlers (like the ones you mention) are perfect for old school grid paper mapping that really adds to immersion. It's not for everyone, though. Fixed tunnels/dungeons are suitable for hand mapping (and even benefit from it, since some traps use disorientation as a weapon, like spinning). The worlds of GTA, or AC, however, benefit greatly from minimaps.

No one has time for that today. Which is why Etrian Odyssey has the digital manual mapping system, which is then displayed as a mini map.

If you haven't played it, check it out.

 

[autoduelist]

I feel like people who have such an issue with mini maps aren't actually complaining about the maps themselves, but rather the need for them in the first place. Which ultimately boils down to people wishing that designers would stop making games in huge cities where it's impossible to create good level design that allows the player to navigate without a map.

I mean, I know that's how I feel. I guess people like us just feel disenchanted with the whole thing and wish more games would put a heavier focus on level design.

Well, I can definitely understand liking games like that. But those games already/still exist too. But not every game can/should be like that.

Open world games generally have large maps full of side missions and other activities and benefit greatly from minimaps

 

[Seanspeed]

I feel like people who have such an issue with mini maps aren't actually complaining about the maps themselves, but rather the need for them in the first place. Which ultimately boils down to people wishing that designers would stop making games in huge cities where it's impossible to create good level design that allows the player to navigate without a map.

I mean, I know that's how I feel. I guess people like us just feel disenchanted with the whole thing and wish more games would put a heavier focus on level design.

I think you're way off. Level design in open world gaming is not the same as it is in a linear game. Open worlds tend to be created based on realistic or plausible settings, and mankind and nature do not always have perfectly intuitive 'design' in terms of convenience for humans to navigate. I'm not sure its possible, or even desirable, to create a large open world that is super easy to navigate without any aid.

I've said it several times now but I don't think anybody is arguing that there shouldn't be maps at all in games, just that reliance on an on-screen mini-map detracts from the immersion and ability to observe your setting in a game. So maps = fine. On-screen minimaps = bad.

I also think this only applies to a subset of games, large scale or open world games in particular. Obviously certain types of games call for it still.

 

[Sendero]

I always go extra lengths to disable the minimaps on most games. As others have said, it helps to immerse yourself in the world, and catch visual/audio/layering cues that you would miss otherwise.

That being said, I think the best approach is the chance to assign a shortcut key to enable/disable it (and the same for the rest of the HUD), rather than just a toggle option on the Graphics menu. Because in large games, it's a chore to keep switching views to look at the large map for minor tasks. So, on those cases, a quick glance to the minimap is healthy for your sanity.

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

I just look at the mini-map when I have a reason to and focus on the world other times. It's not like the game forces me to look at the mini-map or anything, I do have the ability to look at the game world if I so choose. I also find it helps understand the game world but then I'm hyper obsessed with maps in real life. Before I go somewhere new I look at it on a map (well Google Earth these days) and it's like I've lived there for years when I drive around. Same thing in games.

 

[Gsnap]

Well, I can definitely understand liking games like that. But those games already/still exist too. But not every game can/should be like that.

Open world games generally have large maps full of side missions and other activities and benefit greatly from minimaps

Of course not every game should be like that. But I do think the number of games that have unimportant level design is far too high these days.

And yes, open world games need some kind of map. It sucks that they need them, but they do.

I think you're way off. Level design in open world gaming is not the same as it is in a linear game. Open worlds tend to be created based on realistic or plausible settings, and mankind and nature do not always have perfectly intuitive 'design' in terms of convenience for humans to navigate. I'm not sure its possible, or even desirable, to create a large open world that is super easy to navigate without any aid.

I've said it several times now but I don't think anybody is arguing that there shouldn't be maps at all in games, just that reliance on an on-screen mini-map detracts from the immersion and ability to observe your setting in a game. So maps = fine. On-screen minimaps = bad.

I also think this only applies to a subset of games, large scale or open world games in particular. Obviously certain types of games call for it still.

I don't think I'm way off at all because I completely agree with you. I even said almost the same thing earlier.

It's a level design issue. One that can't really be solved in larger games unfortunately. If you're making an open world game and it's purpose is to feel like a place in the real world, then it won't be as designed as something like dark souls or a 3d platformer. There won't be as much rhyme or reason to the layout. And despite how much they try to make it "real", it's not actually real and you don't actually live there, so you don't know the street names and things like that. So the character can't just say, "Let's meet up at Burger King." and expect you to find your way there on your own. And people don't want to put in that effort anyway most of the time.

Think about it. You could get rid of mini maps and force players to learn the layout of the city in GTA. It's possible, but it takes too much time. Nobody's gonna do it.

It's just one of the flaws of the open world genre, and probably its biggest irony. The larger and more prominent the world becomes, the less important/impactful it's design actually is. It's one of the biggest selling points of games these days, and yet it often sits on the sideline when discussing how the game actually plays.

But people like being thrown into these big worlds, so you gotta give them something so they aren't just running around in circles.

Along with that, I was just adding my opinion that I'd like to see less huge realistic open worlds because I just want to see more games that focus on level design.

 

[JumpJeff84]

I'm in agreement.

In general, the less HUD the better. Get all that shit off the screen and let me be immersed in this world that you've spent thousands of hours and millions of dollars creating.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

I was really glad I had a mini-map in FFXIII.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Too strong a focus on immersion can ruin games just like anything.

Sometimes you just need more information on screen to make interesting informed decisions. But other times the information is too much and that makes any choices too obvious.

If you think of something like Skyrim just being told that an item is in the legendary scullroger cave without being given any directions on where it is other than it being lost and legendary is not interesting. You will probably find it if you methodically go in every cave in the game world or more realistically just google it. But if when an npc says says scullroger 50 ft away from you then you a get a quest pop on your screen saying "free item" with a gps trail telling you where to go and an option to travel directly to the item to save time then it also isn't interesting. The item probably isn't even good compared to the 500 other free items you have.

The second problem isn't only solved by immersion though but also strategy. Make it so you have the information available on screen that you need but make it so you need a strategy or skill in order to make use of it.

 

[kiguel182]

I don't think people are saying to not have any map at all. Just not a permanent mini-map HUD element.

When I play a game with a minimap turned off, I still regularly use a map, but I have to stop and actually *use* a map rather than just staring at a minimap the entire time I'm moving around to get me where I need to go.

Replacing the mini-map with a map and leaving the way levels are designed the same is not a good solution. Since levels are still hard to memorize and navigate you would just be always checking the map to make sure you are going to the write place. That doesn't not seem better.

If you design the levels in order to give players clear directions then it might work with just a map for the odd times you would feel lost.

In real life you might check a map the first time you go somewhere but after that you memorize most of the way because you have landmarks, or street names or directions. You aren't always checking a map either.

At the end of the day, if you are in a city, or a jungle or whatever and don't know your way around you need a map.

Even if say, a story NPC gives you directions, what if you get lost? There's only so much guiding you can do until you transform the open world into a linear one.

But maybe the map can be used for the first time you need to go someplace and then the level design makes it easy to remember where things are.

The idea is design the levels to prevent the player from getting lost and also having a map for those that do get lost. Instead of relying on players using a map.

 

[Seanspeed]

Of course not every game should be like that. But I do think the number of games that have unimportant level design is far too high these days.

And yes, open world games need mini maps. It sucks that they need them, but they do.

They don't. I have played plenty of them without any minimap just fine.

 

[autoduelist]

I've said it several times now but I don't think anybody is arguing that there shouldn't be maps at all in games, just that reliance on an on-screen mini-map detracts from the immersion and ability to observe your setting in a game. So maps = fine. On-screen minimaps = bad.

This is a fair point.

However, I think what we're seeing here is two different type of people.

For example -- in an open world game (be it GTA or Shadows of Mordor) the ONLY thing i'm interested in is doing the missions and side activities (and creating chaos, depending on the game). The minimap makes that easier. Heck, I wish there were three times as many fast travel towers in SoM (or I could just fast travel to each mission).

I don't want to explore. I don't want to 'be guided' to my next mission. I just want to be there. Now.

But I'm not an impatient gamer. I used grid paper to play Legend of Grimrock, and have no problem playing games where exploration is important. But those are different types of games, and scratch different itches.

In my open word action games... minimap is crucial to my enjoyment. I'm not trying to explore Seattle in Infamous SS, and I'm not trying to explore Mordor in SoM. I'm playing them to have fun, where fun means destruction/next mission/etc.

 

[Seanspeed]

Replacing the mini-map with a map and leaving the way levels are designed the same is not a good solution. Since levels are still hard to memorize and navigate you would just be always checking the map to make sure you are going to the write place. That doesn't not seem better.

Have you ever tried it?

Yes, you'll have to sometimes check your map. But you wont have to *always* be checking it. Get a bearing on where you are and where you need to go and you'll be surprised how much of your natural navigational abilities get you there just fine, with maybe an occasional double check.

It would require good maps, though. A game like Skyrim's was awful for navigation due to its lack of detail(although you could mod it and improve it on PC). Actual literal map design would become important, which would be awesome as I like maps.

And ideally, you'd have a map that was quickly accessible. Laggy menu maps might indeed become tedious to use, but something that is quick to use minimizes any of that. Far Cry 2 did this right.

 

[Seanspeed]

This is a fair point.

However, I think what we're seeing here is two different type of people.

For example -- in an open world game (be it GTA or Shadows of Mordor) the ONLY thing i'm interested in is doing the missions and side activities (and creating chaos, depending on the game). The minimap makes that easier. Heck, I wish there were three times as many fast travel towers in SoM (or I could just fast travel to each mission).

I don't want to explore. I don't want to 'be guided' to my next mission. I just want to be there. Now.

But I'm not an impatient gamer. I used grid paper to play Legend of Grimrock, and have no problem playing games where exploration is important. But those are different types of games, and scratch different itches.

In my open word action games... minimap is crucial to my enjoyment. I'm not trying to explore Seattle in Infamous SS, and I'm not trying to explore Mordor in SoM. I'm playing them to have fun, where fun means destruction/next mission/etc.

Again, I wouldn't say that games shouldn't have minimaps at all. Just that they should be optional and it should play just fine without one.

Depending on the game, maybe even have it off as default, just so people maybe give it a chance to play it as designed, but still offer a minimap for people who would rather have their hand held(and I don't mean that in a condescending way).

EDIT: Double post, sorry, meant to edit this.

 

[BouncyFrag]

I've been playing Metro Redux and love how there is no HUD unless you reload or are switching out equipment. The lack of a minimap holding my hand is a welcome challenge and makes me actually pay real attention to my surroundings, especially sounds. The game is intense.

 

[Ramza]

Final Fantasy X was the first game I noticed I spent more time looking at the minimap vs the actual game. I agree that it should be gotten rid of. Motion trackers, though, I'm all for those.

 

[MouldyK]

I played Skyrim for like 200 hours on PC and Xbox 360 combined. All without any hud, fast-travelling, using a horse or waiting. If you told me to go somewhere on the game, I could probably know where I was on the map right now, the best route on how to get there and after a while, how long it would take in the game.


That was one of the best experience i've ever had with a game in recent years.

Either way, options are best.

 

[Stiler]

GPS minimaps have ruined FPS games imo, especially the MP portions of them.

A few that support a "hardcore" mode with them off but at the same time not everyone that wants no minimap also wants the other usual "hardcore" features (IE no respawning).

I wish no minimap would become the norm again for MP fps games.

It is one of the features that has a HUGE impact on the gameplay, it utterly destroys all sense of being able to b e "sneaky" or movement being super important with sound, etc.

 

[conman]

I don't understand this at all.

You're in the middle of a city street in a game simulating New York.

How is the environment supposed to 'be the guide' to get to a house in Brooklyn where the next mission starts? It doesn't make any sense to me. I mean, sure, signs can occasionally point to Brooklyn, but you can't have those everywhere and it could easily get frustrated looking for one. And even once you're in Brooklyn, how does the environment indicate where a specific house is? What if the player doesn't remember where they're supposed to be going? Is the player supposed to get out of the car and ask for directions "Do you know where the crimelord lives?... Yes? Two lefts then a right? Thanks!"

That game sounds awful to me... GTA6: Lost and Disoriented in San Andreas.

People have been driving around cities for almost 100 years without minimaps or GPS. It isn't disorienting at all. I wonder if this new generation of people dependent on location tracking in real life really can't imagine finding their way around a city without a phone. It isn't hard, and most people don't need to ask for directions. And it means you have a more intuitive grasp of the city and your place in it. But maybe I'm just an old man and don't believe in needing a phone to find my way around a city. And I don't believe in needing a minimap in a game either. I like the feeling of truly understanding and knowing a place, and not feeling like a tourist in it.

That's as true for games as it is for real life.

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

You know what I want to see the death of? On screen information that tells you that you've killed a player... It destroys the ability to run away from a firefight, since the attacking player still knows you're alive.

 

[jblank83]

People have been driving around cities for almost 100 years without minimaps or GPS. It isn't disorienting at all.

You have to be kidding, buddy. It used to be very disorienting if you didn't know where you were going. You'd make sure to have your directions written down beforehand and you'd still get lost. So you'd have to stop at a gas station and ask if anyone knew directions to where you were going, or use a payphone (always have quarters) to call the place and ask them how to get to them from whatever random part of the city you were in.

God forbid you got lost somewhere remote. Then you'd drive around praying you'd find a gas station in the middle of nowhere, with people who knew what they were actually talking about and where you wanted to get to.

Getting lost while driving around is the entire basis of the "men never ask for directions" joke.

 

[Chittagong]

Yeah I totally agree. GPS gaming prevents you from developing a mental model of the games world, and thus reduces immersion. Same in real world too, I drove a convertible on French countryside a few months back fo a small chateau, still feels like playing a game.

 

[Stallion Dan]

Racing games need a higher front of car cam if I'm gonna be turning off the mini-map. Cannot see shit ahead with how low most are nowdays.

Chase cams could be raised a bit too.

 

[hatchx]

Turning off the mini-map in a GTA really helps you get to know the city. It feels like a whole other way to play.

I'll probably do this with the remaster. Sounds great.

 

[Nafai1123]

The minimap adds absolutely nothing to most games. They are used in most open world games, but the reality is you still have to pause the game and go to the full sized map to choose missions/events, fast travel, etc.

I'm not a big fan of overlay either though. I think the perfect implementation would be to have a button mapped to it like Dead Space.

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

F that, just make it optional. Done.

 

[SerTapTap]

There are definitely some games that use it and don't need it, but I think games like Asscreed and Infamous will always need it or some equivalent that shows you the general direction. Since they're opens worlds without strictly linear progress through the environment, you're always going to need some way to find your way. Simplest is of course a map or compass, and "design the level to guide you" is simply impossible in an open world of that sort, since there is no ONE way to go.

Only thing I can think of would be some sort of sky-high landmarks around almost every relevant point so you could be like "go to the eiffel tower! Now go to the Space Needle!" but that seems a bit silly, and forces you to use highly visible landmarks for basically every traversal event.

Don't just turn it off.

Put ... it ... on ... the ... gamepad

What third party games are coming to Wii U after Watch Dogs that would significantly benefit from this? Besides, looking face down at the minimap (I often do this in that Game and Wario game) is hardly better than staring at the top left corner of the screen for the minimap, doesn't solve the problems mentioned in the article at all, really.

 

[Accoun]

All I want is for the Far Cry series to return to the map style of FC2. Playing without radar at all is nice, but I think the experience is even better when it's implemented as an in-game item that can be quickly accessed or put away.

Vietcong (at least the first one) did it simillarly, except it was more hardcore, if I remember correctly - it just gave you a map and compass. It may had your objectives marked, but it didn't show your position - it was just a plain, "real" map. It wasn't open-world through, but it may have had non linear levels? I really need to replay it one day...

 

[Oni Jazar]

Vietcong (at least the first one) did it simillarly, except it was more hardcore, if I remember correctly - it just gave you a map and compass. It may had your objectives marked, but it didn't show your position - it was just a plain, "real" map. It wasn't open-world through, but it may have had non linear levels? I really need to replay it one day...

You want more hardcore than that? Thief 1. Hand drawn cruddy map with no compass. This is how we played games and we loved it!

Look at these question marks. Inside?? I dunno deal with it.

 

[d0g_bear]

You can play MGS 1 all the way through without ever looking at the screen. just play pacman on the minimap. Some poor artist slaved over all that game world you're not looking at! Death to the minimap.