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Eurogamer: Did Nintendo download a Mario ROM and sell it back to us?
- Thread starter allintospace
- Start date
Xion_Stellar
People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
It's not completely unheard for Developers to lose the source code to their games but lately particularly speaking Japanese developers are the one losing track of their codes that pre date the 2000s from what I noticed.
Iva Demilcol
Member
I don't care it's their own property or how common the practice is among publishers. It's fucked up that a company that condemn people for using emulators and roms actually does exactly what they condemn. It's hypocritical at best.
Elaugaufein
Member
I think people are forgetting how long it's been too. The last official NES game was released 23 years ago now. And the oldest Famicom stuff dates back to 1983 (which is 34 years). Archiving a vast library of physical ROMs would be difficult for that period even ignoring things like natural disasters and hardware malfunctions , and source code would be even worse, the only long term digital storage device used in 1983 that people would even recognize as a valid storage type today is magnetic tape, and even then very few people outside of commercial enterprise data archiving would have seen one these days and even then it's unlikely that magnetic tape from 86 would work on any kind of reader you'd have convenient access too today.
Yeah, I think most Japanese game developers don't archive their masters at all, or didn't until very recently.
All this really shows is that piracy has consistently been the most effective way to preserve video games, or at least has been more effective than the developers themselves.
All this really shows is that piracy has consistently been the most effective way to preserve video games, or at least has been more effective than the developers themselves.
AtomicShroom
Member
KojiKnight
Member
I'm sure it's been said before, but most ROM dumping tools automatically insert the standard NES rom header as well.
It's really not surprising that most of these companies don't have their original master roms agree 30 years.
It's really not surprising that most of these companies don't have their original master roms agree 30 years.
Does the industry then have to accept that yes, roms/emulation are actually essential to the preservation of games because the original property owners haven't done a good enough job themselves? I roll my eyes when people say that, but it seems to be true.
KojiKnight
Member
I mean... You're really late to the party if that is the hill you're going to bury yourself on. Sony and Nintendo already solidified roms and emulation as their means of preservation last generation.
It's too late to bemoan Miyamoto not backing up the original Mario source code every time a new storage medium came to prominence. Unless of course you have a time machine.
It has, but no one cares, most people just read the thread title and jump in for potshots.
KratosEnergyDrink
Member
10 years? Typical Eurogamer clickbait.
Sure, but I expect that for tiny studios that might have gone under a long time ago. Not a large multinational company that's been around for 3 decades.
shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
Nintendo just shot themselves in the foot.
I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in America where you can become successful by stealing your own ROM from someone who stole it from you. If you screw someone over in Japan, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.
What this means is the japanese public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase Virtual Console games for either system, nor will they purchase any of Nintendo's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Nintendo has alienated an entire market with this move.
Nintendo, publicly apologize and rip your own ROM or you can kiss your business goodbye.
I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in America where you can become successful by stealing your own ROM from someone who stole it from you. If you screw someone over in Japan, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.
What this means is the japanese public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase Virtual Console games for either system, nor will they purchase any of Nintendo's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Nintendo has alienated an entire market with this move.
Nintendo, publicly apologize and rip your own ROM or you can kiss your business goodbye.
Sega has apparently lost a lot of source code over the years, Panzer Dragoon Saga is a famous example that gets mentioned every now and then.
Though I'd be surprised if Nintendo managed to lose SMB's source.
AzureSkies
Member
Perfect
Head.spawn
Junior Member
They have all this bs rhetoric they spew everytime they send a cease and desist about protecting their IP and not legitimizing piracy... I'd say using the fruits that game preservation has provided and using it to profit is absolutely legitimizing it. Now they have the nerve to start an online service giving a free ROM to use each month as bait. If this actually the case i couldn't possibly think of a better case of legitimizing it.
Like eventually someone is going to be playing their own cart rip that is sold to them from Nintendo, lol.
eso76
Member
Yeah, i'm also on the "it's their IP, i don't care where they got the rom from, it's theirs".
Now, a much worse scenario would be if they stole the code of a NES emulator someone else developed.
On the other hand, Nintendo should realise, or aknowledge, they probably gained from emulation, in general, more than they lost, being able to sell their old games (someone else preserved) again.
Also; sure, you can download the same rom for free. Uh..yes, so ? you're not buying a special ROM from Nintendo itself, you're buying the right to use it.
(mind you, i am absolutely NOT against emulation or complete romsets)
Now, a much worse scenario would be if they stole the code of a NES emulator someone else developed.
On the other hand, Nintendo should realise, or aknowledge, they probably gained from emulation, in general, more than they lost, being able to sell their old games (someone else preserved) again.
Also; sure, you can download the same rom for free. Uh..yes, so ? you're not buying a special ROM from Nintendo itself, you're buying the right to use it.
(mind you, i am absolutely NOT against emulation or complete romsets)
Moreover, it's Super Mario Bros. I can understand them not keeping around the source code Earthbound 0 or Star Fox 2 but not arguably the most important game to Nintendo's existence as a video game company.
And either way, this isn't like Capcom using an IGN watermarked Okami pic for the boxart. It's that Nintendo is using the same tools developed by the community they completely denounce.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
Didn't NERD/Mobiclip develop it? I would believe it was easier for them to download a ROM then get access to NOJ's archives.
Like I said on the last page, it's not that they "lost" it, it's that they very likely never saw it as a priority to keep it. The attitude of most Japanese devs from the '80s through the mid aughts was that once the game is finished and pressed on distribution media, the digital assets are no longer needed. Archiving wasn't seen as a necessity. That's why Square-Enix had to rebuild Final Fantasy IX largely from scratch to make ports.
KojiKnight
Member
Because Nintendo knew in 1985 that it'd be their most valuable property... At the time, that was Donkey Kong, and they didn't keep that either. Why would they? Archival media at the time was limited to wonky tape drives. We do know they kept the original design documents, and in many ways even today that's way more valuable.
Keep in mind, source code from the time was pure assembly. 6502 asm code was essentially worthless for anything but the nes... You'd have to rewrite the game from scratch anyways, in that instance the original design documents explaining the underlying systems were likely more useful since they weren't held back by physical space (even notes in the original source would have had to been brief to conserve data).
balgajo
Member
Adam_Vania
Banned
not really. they made the game. they own the IP. it's still theirs.
if ROMS were in-depth conversions requiring some level of technical and artistic skill you may have a point. but from my understanding it's just a data dump from the tape w some wrappers/headers thrown on.
jabberwocker
Banned
Doesn't matter regardless.. it's piracy.. on piracy... the sold code even if one line that wasn't theirs as their own. If anything I think they just made downloading roms impossible to manadate because with this alone they would never win a court case.
SystemUser
Member
People keep mentioning that Japan in the 1980s weren't archiving. American devs weren't archiving either. There is a ton of old Atari era stuff that doesn't have original source code. Also when Midway was sold off for parts their "archive" was a joke. I don't know for sure but I assume that Activision 80s stuff is incomplete too.
It is not limited to games either the BBC used to reuse the master video tapes. There are BBC shows that had to get home VHS copies supplied from fans.
It is not limited to games either the BBC used to reuse the master video tapes. There are BBC shows that had to get home VHS copies supplied from fans.
CircleOfFire
Member
Not sure what your point is here, wasn't the ROM in question identified because it was modified? In which case whatever changes introduced are owned by whoever added them.
gingerbeardman
Member
What about the ROMs in the NES Mini Classic?
FrozenCell
Member
found a recipe for beef goulash soup or super mario world rom on the internet?
if you have the raw materials and means, you can manufacture your own copy
if you have the raw materials and means, you can manufacture your own copy
Stiflers Mom
Banned
I once downloaded my own track from youtube that someone has posted there, since I didn't have it anymore..
What's the problem Nintendo doing this?
What's the problem Nintendo doing this?
Starwolf_UK
Member
It's also prevalent with wore for hire. One of the Chocobo's Dungeon games the localisation was started and quickly canceled because the source code would not compile due to files missing. Chunsoft were like "well the project was done so we deleted everything, we have no use for it".
Do you go around condemning people for uploading your music to youtube.
Nintendo (and the industry at large) showing insolence toward emulation and game preservation efforts that they both later rely on is the issue.
exmachina64
Banned
Yeah the 398 games on the Wii Virtual Console in North America just aren't enough for me
wow.
people once again making a mountain out of a molehill. lol
it's nintendo's i.p & code. they can do what they want.
on the surface it appears hypocritical given their piracy stance, but developers & publishers never really used to archive their games back in the day.
so then i have to ask: what do you want nintendo (and any other game company) to do instead in this case, all you 'righteous' internet msg board gamers?
not release the game AT ALL if they don't have their original developed code anymore??
people once again making a mountain out of a molehill. lol
it's nintendo's i.p & code. they can do what they want.
on the surface it appears hypocritical given their piracy stance, but developers & publishers never really used to archive their games back in the day.
so then i have to ask: what do you want nintendo (and any other game company) to do instead in this case, all you 'righteous' internet msg board gamers?
not release the game AT ALL if they don't have their original developed code anymore??