In an alternative universe Starfield would be top 5 (or at least top 10).
Gamepass is absolutely killing game sales
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European Monthly Charts December 2023 | PS5 #1 +66% YOY, Switch #2 -7% YOY and Xbox series s/x #3 -19% YOY
- Thread starter jm89
- Start date
Gamepass is absolutely killing game sales
Luminoth-4545
Member
Thanks for the estimates for December
EU Oct 2023:
PS5 ~320k
NSW ~110k
XBS ~50k
EU Nov 2023:
PS5 ~978k
NSW ~267k
XBS ~54k
EU Dec 2023:
PS5 ~625k
NSW ~507k
XBS ~114k
EU Q3 (Oct to Dec):
PS5 ~1923k
NSW ~884k
XBS ~218k
UK Q3 (Oct to Dec)
PS5 ~529k
XBS ~313k
NSW ~307k
EU + UK Q3 (Oct to Dec):
PS5 ~2452k
NSW ~1191k
XBS ~541k
For hardware the GSD covers these EU countries: Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Italy, Portugal, Russia, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland. If we factor in Germany and the many missing countries then i would expect something like this for total Q3 sell through:
EU + UK + Others Q3 (Oct to Dec):
PS5 ~3800k
NSW ~1750k
XBS ~725k
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Astray
Gold Member
That Xbox figure is completely absurd. No wonder they're briefing their lemmings that the console market is over, because it's basically fucking over for them.
So many reasons it came back to this, and it's not just the failure of Xbox One. This was not a completely lost battle from moment 1 like Phil wants to believe.
I have a feeling the momentum will only continue on.
So many reasons it came back to this, and it's not just the failure of Xbox One. This was not a completely lost battle from moment 1 like Phil wants to believe.
Not necessarily. Dec 2022 sales were pretty high for PS5, so there's a higher denominator in that %change than the rest of the months.
I have a feeling the momentum will only continue on.
Probably won't ever get an honest one, but I'd be very interested in a post-mortem investigation into all things involving Xbox from say 2012 - end of 2020. What data points caused them to go all in on Kinnect and TV TV TV at the expense of the enthusiasts who loved OG Xbox and 360? How did they decide what to green light, and what to cancel? How did they decide who to make development leads? How much discussion or decision making centered around the belief that the people who would boycott a game like Hogwarts were representative of the modern gaming audience? How much planning discussion involved gameplay compared to monetization? How much thought went into building a library instead of buying and foreclosing access? Did anyone ever stop and think if evangelicals actually benefited the platform more than harmed it? And how, just how the F did they miss the chance to launch this generation with a banger Halo on day 1? Of all the things they can and throw money at, how did they miss even taking their best shot to turn the tide in November 2020?
Anyway, big changes have to be coming at this point and soon. 80 billion in acquisitions and fire sale console prices haven't been enough to even stabilize their console position. They have to pay for all the people they just on-boarded. Xbox is boxed out of their last viable haymaker by the COD multiplatform agreement. GP has a much lower ceiling than they expected. And frankly, if any of the major companies releases something that dethrones COD, the ABK acquisition would become almost irrelevant in the console sphere. That may never happen, but the chances of it happening have certainly increased if we're being honest now that BK is out of the picture. People can hate him all they want, but the dude oversaw annual releases that topped the charts year over year for decades. And his replacement will be chosen by the same guy / people who called all the shots over 10 years of wait till next year (now replaced by wait until next gen).
Anyway, big changes have to be coming at this point and soon. 80 billion in acquisitions and fire sale console prices haven't been enough to even stabilize their console position. They have to pay for all the people they just on-boarded. Xbox is boxed out of their last viable haymaker by the COD multiplatform agreement. GP has a much lower ceiling than they expected. And frankly, if any of the major companies releases something that dethrones COD, the ABK acquisition would become almost irrelevant in the console sphere. That may never happen, but the chances of it happening have certainly increased if we're being honest now that BK is out of the picture. People can hate him all they want, but the dude oversaw annual releases that topped the charts year over year for decades. And his replacement will be chosen by the same guy / people who called all the shots over 10 years of wait till next year (now replaced by wait until next gen).
iHaunter
Member
nowhat
Member
I maintain that it would have been a brilliant strategy (not the mandatory Kinect, but having DVR-like functionality, or being able to enhance traditional TV) when 360 was launched, or even at the midpoint of its life cycle.
But alas, by the time One was launched, that functionality was no longer needed. Hell, One was launched in the UK at the same time it was launched in the US, but it took like six months for Microsoft to figure out that, yes, TV signals over here in Europe are 50Hz instead of 60Hz, so unless you do something to accommodate for that, PAL passthrough will look like ass.
So, I think the idea was alright. It came way too late, and if you're going to a global (or even NTSC+limited amount of PAL) launch, you better make sure it works right in every region. One (hah!) can make a first impression only once.
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Mibu no ookami
Member
The Series S is priced so low that people can consider upgrading to another more powerful console.
The general thinking would be that they would upgrade to an XSX, but it doesn't have any games that the existing XSS won't play. It's potentially more true that people see the PS5 as the console to upgrade to even if their existing games won't work since they still have an XSS to play on.
If this is the case, this was a huge miscalculation on Microsoft's part.
Woopah
Member
That's what I'm saying, we've reached the end of era where we're comparing PS5 against a period with acute shortages.
In continental Europe PS5 was up 202% in Jan 2023 and up 400% in Feb 2023. Even reaching those heights again would be an achievement.
We're unlikely to see any triple digit growth in 2024 unless there's a price cut, or possibly when the Pro comes out.
To answer at least the first part, Kinect was very successful and had a significant positive impact on sales of the 360.
That's why they put so much focus on it with the One.
Mibu no ookami
Member
Not sure how much post mortem is needed here.
The Wii was fantastically successful so Microsoft wanted to ride that wave. They're all about riding the wave. Same with the TV stuff. They wanted to be the set top box of the living room because they thought that is where media was being consumed. You look at android and iphone and they generate so much revenue because that is where people are consuming media and content. The whole goal of the Xbox was to capture the living room, but the living room wasn't the place they thought it would be. That's why a pivot from Xbox as a plastic box is so likely now. There is no future in which the living room is won by Microsoft and there really isn't much purpose in winning the living room now.
The games that were successful on Xbox 360 were more PC-oriented games, which is exactly why they bought the publishers most successful on 360: Activision and Bethesda.
Sony stumbled into leaning heavily on 3rd person action adventure games. Many in the industry thought that was dying out, so a lot of the competition had been cleared out. It's why Microsoft didn't want to throw in 200 million dollars at Spider-Man.
Microsoft had Halo and Gears of War and largely that's all they were really interested in. Whatever else you need you get a 3rd party developer to do or a 2nd.
At this time Sony and Microsoft really weren't racing to be Nintendo in terms of 1st party software, that wasn't what was selling consoles.
What games are being greenlit? Look at the "Big 3" for Microsoft this year
-Avowed (studio purchased in 2018)
-Indiana Jones (studio purchased in 2021)
-Hellblade (studio purchased in 2018)
It's not them greenlighting games are enhancing their internal development organically at all. They didn't have the studios to compete and it's largely too late now.
It's extremely difficult to establish new IP these days. It's costly and risky and you still want to have a studio with pedigree do it and Microsoft doesn't have much pedigree.
Microsoft has started out on a path that Sony trailblazed starting almost two decades ago with God of War 1 in 2005 and even God of War had to become more like The Witcher in 2018 in order to reach a mass audience. Note: The Witcher 3 came out in 2015. God of War Ascension came out in 2013.
The idea that they are going to generate enough IP and enough hits in 6-7 years that Sony has had to craft for 20 years is a difficult pill to swallow. It's like saying Company, create a game as popular as Pokemon despite the fact that no game has been that popular since Pokemon.
Look at Sucker Punch... they started out with Sly Cooper and then they made Infamous... they didn't make it big until Ghost of Tsushima. Sly Cooper came out in 2002 and Ghost of Tsushima came out 2020. Sony bought them in 2011 after Infamous 2.
A lot of what people want in a post mortem on xbox was them reading the industry wrong. And that just happens. Games take 4-6 years to make now. If you're not ahead of the curve, obviously you're not going to see returns.
Imagine if Sony and Nintendo decided to not sell their games digitally for the first 2 months. Retailers would be over the moon and would steer people away from the machine where people don't buy games.
Mibu no ookami
Member
Retailers don't have much impact on steering people from one console to another these days. With the advent of the internet, that power was lost.
Same reason why gaming magazines aren't prominent anymore.
The revenue they'd lose primarily in the best selling months of a game's life to retailers would be devastating, particularly considering how expensive these games are to make now.
They have very little incentive to stock a machine that makes them little profit on hardware and almost nothing on software thanks to gamepass.
NikuNashi
Member
We wouldn't have had Mario 64, we might not have analogue sticks, rumble, all the game design innovations that came with the N64. Plus pirating games would have been more common like on the PS1. N64 was an amazing console.
"Xbox and consoles, the PC's and now even including mobile and cloud gaming"
Xbox and consoles...
Look, its becoming more n more clearer whats about to happen.
Mibu no ookami
Member
It's just a matter of when and how that axe falls. It's falling this year, we know that.
Baki
Member
Kinect sold 30M units and was the reason why Xbox 360 performed stronger in the last 3 years of it's life than the first 3 years.
Kinect was the best thing to happen to Xbox outside of Xbox Live as far as success goes
ChorizoPicozo
Member
Didn't we have that as an option midgen with this thing and nobody actually gave a shit?
Luigi Mario
Member
These results shouldn't be surprising at this point. Xbox Series consoles are tracking behind Xbox One and have been for quite some time.
Starfield, which wasn't even bundled, failed to make a splash and Forza Motorsport completely belly-flopped in Europe.
Starfield, which wasn't even bundled, failed to make a splash and Forza Motorsport completely belly-flopped in Europe.
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lughnasadh123
Member
Focusing on other stuff aside from games as always been treating the symptoms and not the disease.
Sadly, yes, and that's only if they nail the games part. They can't shift the kind of multi-generation moment of being behind in a year. It's just not possible. IMO laying out a roadmap they can stick to and deliver on will help shore up some good faith that at least by the beginning of next gen there's going to be games people will want to buy their console for. Can they actually pull that off? *shrug*
He's basically telegraphing that they now see themselves as a multiplatform publisher.
We'll probably see them executing on this strategy starting from this year although I guess it will be gradual.
Unknown?
Member
Wow, it's really clear now.
TheGodfather07
Member
Show this to the hardcore xbox fanboys who are still in denial. "Xbox and consoles" "all platforms".
Directly from satya nadella himself. It doesn't get any more clear than this that Microsoft are indeed about to publish games on all platforms.
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
This is a total bloodbath. MS must be in total panic mode right now. It's probably why we are hearing all these rumors about them putting their games on PS5 and Switch. Xbox is not competitive in Europe at all.
MrTired
Member
It was the best thing that happened for XB360 however it was the worst thing for Xbox.
It was the genesis of what got them where they are today. There output of non-Kinect exclusive dropped significantly with the Kinect success. Halo, Gears, Forza became a reality at the end of the 360 era.
The direction taken on Xbox One in terms of how it was built plus bundling the Kinect with the console, the price.
Those short term wins led to huge losses.
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No hardcore Xbox fans just attacked & used Kinect as an excuse for PS4 being better than Xbox One & they believed that lie . Reality still haven't hit you people even after Xbox One X & Series X .
Xbox needs it's own identity more than it needs more power
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nowhat
Member
Hmm, you are right, I totally forgot such a thing existed. But it obviously wasn't a main selling point for a PS3 at the time, not such a fundamental strategy for the device.
As a personal anecdote, around 2006 I had a MythTV PC with two DVB-C tuners, so I could record up to 12 channels simultaneously. I was really quite proud of it, and it served its purpose at the time. But by the time the following console gen (so we're talking PS4/One) came around, it had been gathering dust for a few years, streaming just killed the need for a DVR. I very rarely tune into "live TV" these days.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I'd pay $100 for a doc on everything you are looking for. Personally, I think it's big brother Microsoft that pushed the Xbox team to do alot of that stuff. They aren't just okay with being really good in an industry. They want to dominate everything that they are in. And they always want to sprinkle their MS sauce on everything. Sometimes it works (changing MS Office standalone products to "O365" subscription service and MS investing in OpenAI for "MS Co-Pilot") and sometimes it doesn't (Xbox, Kin, and Zune).
The 2nd bolded is something NOBODY in the media will want to touch and be honest about. Dude knew how to cook COD man.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
So in the EU in December it's............
PS5: 85%
Xbox Series: 15%
So with the BIG HD consoles in the EU + UK + Others in the 3rd quarter, it's............
PS5: 68%
Xbox Series: 32%
