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Ex-Ensemble boss Bruce Shelley not happy

Gbeav said:
It sounds like MS wants to get out of game development and leave the risk taking for independent studios.

Lets hope Sony won't be doing the same.

Sure, if you ignore the active hiring policy they have at the moment (Corinne Yu, her husband and Ryan Payton being the "big" names we've heard about, along with the formation of Spawnpoint) and Che mentioning the expansion of Turn10.
 
We're totally hiring. Good people are hard to find. But so far we've found some great ones.
 
Draft said:
It just really demonstrates how stupid MS really is. So because Ensemble wasn't this atom bomb in the console arena, they axed them. Never mind that they are a proven and consistent moneymaker in the PC arena. Oh, I mean, that makes no sense. Why would you want to release successful PC games and make money when you could be futilely scratching away at Nintendo's casual game base, or viciously battling Sony for the bragging rights to distant second.

It makes perfect sense if you look at it from Microsoft's point of view, which is this: Ensemble is going to make PC games, they're going to make them for Windows. In light of that, it will be much cheaper for us in the long run if they're not direct employees.

It isn't like they have to fear that ensemble is going to start turning out exclusives RTS games for the PS3. :P
 
It's funny that the studio closure happened so quickly after Phil Spencer replaced Shane Kim as a head of MGS. So probably Ensemble didn't fit in his vision of what they should be publishing in future. Still, it's retarted, the same way Matrick didn't "find time" for Bungie's announcement at their E3 conference.
 
itxaka said:
waitwaitwaitwait


Did you just said a change on develover on an RTS it's the same as a change on developer in GUITAR HERO?!?!?

Do you even understand the deep balance of AoE series? It's not the same as making charts for 5 buttons that drop down the screen AT ALL. Fucking normal people make charts everyday! I don't see people making good RTS games every day.

waitwaitwait yes its exactly the goddamn same. Activision wanted to make a Guitar hero 3 so they found a developer (neversoft) capable enough to make it. If MS ever wants to create a new Age of Empires they can find a developer (inhouse MGS or perhaps a new startup founded by ex-ensemble employees even) to make it.
 
Don't worry, CA is around to take up the slack with Empire total war for the PC and Stormrise for the console from the Oz team.
 
The Age Of series has run it's course, the PC gaming realm isn't what it used to be.
I would have preferred Microsoft let Ensemble finish Halo Wars and see how it sold before giving them the boot. I think RTS games aren't a PC centric but perhaps the team was simply costing too much money.
 
pr0cs said:
The Age Of series has run it's course, the PC gaming realm isn't what it used to be.

Why exactly do you think this? From everything I have heard, AoE III sold great. Hell, it justified two different expansions. Or is this one of those PC gaming is dead posts that GAF is so fond of?
 
Screaming_Gremlin said:
Or is this one of those PC gaming is dead posts that GAF is so fond of?
I'm a firm believer that PC gaming is on the way out and is becoming niche. GAF is far from fond of it considering all the death threats I've gotten.
 
Zzoram said:
They're about to finish Halo Wars. The "Age of" franchise is massively popular and profitable. Hopefully they saved enough key people to keep that franchise alive.
Dude, just picked up Age of Empire 2, just for the hell of it. I did my part.

It was 20 bucks. I'll play this more than GTA 4 in the long run.
 
It looks like MS are really trying to cut down on 1st/2nd party and focus on OS/hardware instead. It'll work fine for the rest of this generation, but could definitely hurt their next console, especially during the early stages.
 
ToyMachine228 said:
RTS's are a thing of the post. Sorry man. I'm not a hater, it's just the way things are.
Korea disagrees. Hell, the world will disagree once Starcraft II comes out. And just look at the RTSes that have come out the last 18 months, and to the close of the calendar year.

It might be a thing of the past when all you can play is games on a controller.
 
Owning the IP's means they can always reconstitute an internal studio (should there be a business need). Owning the IP, and not a studio, gives them more flexibility in financially uncertain times.
 
Relic has taken over from Ensemble ies as the non Blizzard RTS developer of choice anyway. Plus Relic is a far more innovative and boundary pushing competitor to Blizzard than Ensemble ever was.

Edit: please note I loved the Age of series.
 
FightyF said:
None of those develop for the PC.

You should be comparing this to 989 Studios as they made Everquest, not those developers.

Sorta loses the impact on your obligatory knock against MS.
Obligatory knock *whines* yeah, sure.
Who gives a damn about "PC or not".
Ensemble is one of the three best RTS-studios worldwide.
Now they make Halo Wars, which looks awesome, too.
And now MS is killing them? Sorry, but that's pure crap and stupid as hell.
Way to go, MS
 
szaromir said:
It's funny that the studio closure happened so quickly after Phil Spencer replaced Shane Kim as a head of MGS.

This is the thing everyone seems to be ignoring about this, and the other schizophrenic stories about MS' development strategy: there's been a lot of turnover at the top end of the Xbox brand, and it seems clear that the new brass are chopping away at things that don't fit their new approach to things. MS' approach might look coherent in two years when we've seen whatever they're doing right now bear fruit, but right now it's just the usual executive shuffle bullshit -- fire people who are perfectly good assets for your business in order to show people that you run the place now.
 
_Xenon_ said:
Besides the dumb decision, it's also pretty mind blowing why MS had to make the decision before they finish Halo War. Now people are leaving and the game is bound to be half-ass'ed.

The creative talent at Ensemble have been given a new studio from what I've read. This whole deal with Ensemble sounds like restructuring to me. Don't get the backlash, they can make what they want. Though it does suck for people who have lost jobs.
 
Who knew Europe would save us all? The platform holder for windows gaming is abandoning it, but Europe holds strong. LONG LIVE EUROPE!
 
Quazar said:
The creative talent at Ensemble have been given a new studio from what I've read. This whole deal with Ensemble sounds like restructuring to me. Don't get the backlash, they can make what they want. Though it does suck for people who have lost jobs.
In Sandy Peterson's own words, "Not all of us will be going to the new company. I think it only has about 30 guys out of almost 120. For example, I am not going to the new company. This is pretty much the end of Ensemble Studios – we are going to be spread far and wide around the country. "
 
a really interesting point in this thread. From the consumer's standpoint, the console wars are dead. PS3 and 360 both get 99% of the same games, and the Wii is in a whole different category all by itself (you either own one or you don't.. has nothing to do with the PS360).

But by that same token, the console wars from the manufacturers' perspectives are more heated than ever before. Aside from Nintendo, Sony and MS have to fight tooth and nail for brand recognition and, likewise, third party sales for licensing revenue. We have already seen in the newest NPDs how much Sony has been cutting into 3rd part 360 sales, and likewise, Sony knows just how much money is sitting out there going into MS' pockets every month.

The one thing I will say is that I really feel it's obvious that MS is the one trying to put on the heat. Exclusive deals (RB1 europe, RB2 NA, GTAIV, etc), closing shops that are developing outside of 360 (PC in this case), really trying to streamline their game business to direct it firmly at 360 growth (and separation from PS3). Not saying Sony would never do that or won't do it eventually... But MS clearly right now is trying to find whatever strategy sticks in light of most current major projects going day and date multi-platform and the Wii leaving both systems behind in the dust.
 
hscreen1.jpg


Just sayin.
 
Ninja Scooter said:
waitwaitwait yes its exactly the goddamn same. Activision wanted to make a Guitar hero 3 so they found a developer (neversoft) capable enough to make it. If MS ever wants to create a new Age of Empires they can find a developer (inhouse MGS or perhaps a new startup founded by ex-ensemble employees even) to make it.

I dunno, mang. I mean, there's some truth to what you're saying, but the Age of series seems to be one that could wind up disastrous if handled by an incapable team (financially as well). I mean, if only the IP mattered without the need to worry about utterly incompetent developers messing it up, then Sonic would still be a multi-million seller today.

Also, isn't it cheaper to hire an outside studio to work on a project, rather than buy a studio altogether?
 
aznpxdd said:
RTS a thing of the past? :lol

StarCraft 2 alone proves you wrong.
How exactly a painfully oldschool RTS proves anyone wrong? :P
Turn-based strategies FTW. But it's almost a forgotten genre :(
 
This is beyond the point of disappointment. What is this bullshit? Microsoft Game Studios has lost its identity. Bungie, Bizarre and Ensemble were the makers of most of my favourite games on the last 6 years. Now what do I have to look forward to? Also, this is no way to pay the dedication Ensemble put into its products. What the fuck is next MS? Getting rid of Lionhead? Rare? Turn 10? The 360 is still my only console, but I fear for its future.

And what does this mean for Halo Wars? Is it such a turd that the team was not worth keeping?

chespace said:
We're totally hiring. Good people are hard to find. But so far we've found some great ones.
Are you sure turn 10 is not next?
 
WasabiKing said:
Galactic Civ is pretty good ;) Get it on Impulse
I played the first one ages ago. Looking at metacritic score, it seems this one is way better.
It's forgotten when you ignore the new releases :P King's Bounty just released today.
The first sentence is probably true, but King's Bounty is not a real strategy, more of strategy+RPG mix (like HoMM, but more skewed towards 'RPG' elements I think).
I would love to play a game like Operational Art of War or Battle Isle but with modern, DX10 presentation.
 
36) Did you - the team - ever consider expanding AoK even further, like a second expansion broadening into say Indian history, the Hanseatic league etc?
A – yes, we talked about it hard and heavy. I proposed doing a renaissance-era expansion, adding stuff like musket-and-pike and some African empires.


Oh man, why didn't this happen? Back in the day AoK was the greatest RTS.
 
Ninja Scooter said:
crash and spyro aren't the greatest examples as they are still decent sellers. Their publishers have been able to keep the IPs somewhat valuable despite losing AAA devs behind the originals. As i said, its about having good developers behind the games, which isn't a given, but its certainly possible. MS doesn't want control over the studios as long as they have the IPs. They cut deals to seemingly keep Bungie and Bioware making the next installments in Halo and Mass Effect respectively exclusive. Thats not a bad outcome from two developers that probably wanted to branch out and in the case of Bioware make PC and multiplatform games. As for Bizarre, as i remember it they came to MS and asked to either be bought out completely or be allowed to find a potential partner. Their last two games bombed HARD. What would you have done in that situation? Lets say they bought out Bizarre 100%. They make PGR5 and that sells below expectations (much like PGR4). They create a new game that fails to create any buzz (much like The Club). Some of the talent inside the studio proceeds leave, move on, create startups, ect.... Then you are stuck with what?

Look, im a 360 owner, and i think Bioware, Bungie and Bizarre are all talented developers. Do i wish they were all still making tons of exclusive 360 games? Sure. But you also have to look at it from a business perspective and i can understand the decisions MS made based on the direction they are going. Nintendo took a very similar approach during the last days of the Gamecube leading into the Wii. People thought they were crazy for cutting ties with Rare and SK and Left Field (okay maybe not so much). Think about what good SK and to a lesser extent Rare would do for them in the position they are in now.

PGR 4 was sent to die with no advertising right after Forza, during the Forza 2 bundle period and just before the monster that is Need for Speed. The game was flung to the dogs.
 
Xapati said:
36) Did you - the team - ever consider expanding AoK even further, like a second expansion broadening into say Indian history, the Hanseatic league etc?
A – yes, we talked about it hard and heavy. I proposed doing a renaissance-era expansion, adding stuff like musket-and-pike and some African empires.


Oh man, why didn't this happen? Back in the day AoK was the greatest RTS.

This makes me sad. The glorious AoE2 go shafted, but the abomination called AoE3 got TWO expansions. :(
Victrix said:
Concur, no way an RTS dev could make an mmo

Yes let's ignore that Blizzard made two quasi-MMORPGs before they developed WoW. Diablo ring a bell?

Azih said:
Relic has taken over from Ensemble ies as the non Blizzard RTS developer of choice anyway. Plus Relic is a far more innovative and boundary pushing competitor to Blizzard than Ensemble ever was.

Edit: please note I loved the Age of series.

So boundary pushing = if your worker drones have the AI of their counterparts from 1994?

So boundary pushing = turning your RTS into a RTT?
 
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