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Explanation on the misconception for PS5 Variable Frequency(GPU/CPU)

Jan 29, 2019
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We seen this same spin before. About high frequency is good.

Here is the thing, frequency is good when everything else is equal (assume you have two 12tf GPUs, but one has more CUs, while the other has less CUs but has a faster clock.

- None of the benefits higher clocks could have given to the XB1 was attainable compared to the PS4 (the PS4 had higher fill rate, its RAM was so very much faster, etc.) ... but it made the consoles that much closer than the original xb1 plan was.
- Instead of the number of CUs take the peak processing performance (12 vs 10 or 1.3 vs 1.8)... this will tell you more about the potential differences for games that are on both machines... below 20%.

- The GDDR6 memory used for the GPU is slower on the PS5, I think it's mostly fast 'enough' but I really can't tell how much of a bottleneck that will be in the end.
- However the PS5's CPU is running slower, and it has no redeeming benefits to it (other than using a separate chip + memory bank for OS background task)... so some games will probably run slightly better on the sx - but then again, in many cases both will hold 60fps no problem, so unless you plug your console on a 120fps display you may rarely see the benefits of the faster CPU.

Obviously MS or Sony may have some secret sauce that will make the numbers lie.
 
Oct 26, 2018
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We seen this same spin before. About high frequency is good.

Yup. And even more parallels.

MS promoted 32 mb of Esram at ultra sick sick speed vs. PS4's 8gb of GDDR5 ram. As if the ESram was going to catch everything up 100% of the time. Didn't MS even combine the bandwidths at one point showing trying to make it look like their DDR3+ESram was better than PS4's raw GDDR?

Never came close. Reminds me of Sony now trying to pitch SSD high gb/s like it's better
 
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husomc

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Jan 30, 2020
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Something is weird here. If the frequency of the GPU does not fall dramatically,only a few percents which I guess he means %3-5 at worst situation,then why do you need to openly try to explain it in front of public?

Honesty? very bad PR?
Maybe for full disclosure.
 

JägerSeNNA

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Maybe for full disclosure.
I have a theory. They did not show the console because this boost thing came out at the last second (a couple of months before the tech reveal) to show to public two digit numbers. GitHub leaks were walking around and the Sony observed that the reaction of gamers,against such a weaker machine in this rivalry isn’t positive at all. On the other hand nothing much left that they could do...All they could achieve was a hard O.C on the GPU side but they knew,it is almost impossible to stabilize the frequency at these crazy numbers that’s why they call it Smart Shift.Therefore they needed it to redesign the cooling system from the beginning because this thing is crazy fast in theory and needs a monster cooling system to keep it cool. This is what I think.
 

longdi

Ni hao ma, fellow kids?
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I have a theory. They did not show the console because this boost thing came out at the last second (a couple of months before the tech reveal) to show to public two digit numbers. GitHub leaks were walking around and the Sony observed that the reaction of gamers,against such a weaker machine in this rivalry isn’t positive at all. On the other hand nothing much left that they could do...All they could achieve was a hard O.C on the GPU side but they knew,it is almost impossible to stabilize the frequency at these crazy numbers that’s why they call it Smart Shift.Therefore they needed it to redesign the cooling system from the beginning because this thing is crazy fast in theory and needs a monster cooling system to keep it cool. This is what I think.
Smart shift is AMD ip that will appear in their zen2 apu.

Nothing exclusive. I expect Series X will have it too.

Sony and MS are doing the same things within AMD designs. Just that Sony had to push their gpu to the edge of the 36CU silicon operations, for PR purposes.

MS properly left a lot more head room with their frequency, more relaxed tdp, cooling, tweaking and all. A finely perfectly balanced system Thanos will be proud of.
 
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Ar¢tos

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If the zen2 cpu is way more powerful than the Jaguar, won't it be a long time until games need to use it 100%? Leaving it underclocked most of the time for max GPU usage?
Specifically considering all the custom hardware the console has for sound processing and data decompression, freeing the Cpu from these tasks.
 

JägerSeNNA

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Mar 23, 2020
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Smart shift is AMD ip that will appear in their zen2 apu.

Nothing exclusive. I expect Series X will have it too.

Sony and MS are doing the same things within AMD designs. Just that Sony had to push their gpu to the edge of the 36CU silicon operations, for PR purposes.

MS properly left a lot more head room with their frequency, more relaxed tdp, cooling, tweaking and all. A finely perfectly balanced system Thanos will be proud of.
I know the S.S is not an exclusive feature for PS5. AMD based laptops using it already but this is not what I mean. What I mean is: If Sony would have had a sufficient GPU power,they would have never follow this path and would lock all system numbers. They need it now for PR.
 
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Roxkis_ii

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Xbox extremist seem obsessed with Playstation. They take every thread is a reaction to xbox. Every spec decision a last minute scramble to try to try to save face against xbox.

The most cringe are the "damage control" post.

It's like their trying to give their platform some kind of self importance. You can really feel the insecurities dripping from their post.

It's really gives the reasonable xbox fans such a bad look.

It's sad threads like this have to exist to counter all the misinformation posted on the forums.
 

longdi

Ni hao ma, fellow kids?
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Beside doing specs bingo, why would they need to have it or use it if the clocks are always fixed?!
Maybe they don't, which is a good thing for their oppressive power design. SS is cool for mobile and budgeted tdp and all.

Full sustainable oppression is what i expect from next gen leap, that's all there is to it.
 

cyber69

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Sep 21, 2018
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Xbox extremist seem obsessed with Playstation. They take every thread is a reaction to xbox. Every spec decision a last minute scramble to try to try to save face against xbox.

The most cringe are the "damage control" post.

It's like their trying to give their platform some kind of self importance. You can really feel the insecurities dripping from their post.

It's really gives the reasonable xbox fans such a bad look.

It's sad threads like this have to exist to counter all the misinformation posted on the forums.
Agreed. If I gamed primarily on Xbox I would have some built in rage as well:

-ESRAM
-Power of the Cloud
-No exclusives
-Crackdown 3
-Last but not least, the promise of playing as a Jedi with 1:1 movement:

 

yurinka

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I expect PS5 to be at least $100 cheaper than X-box series x :(
No way. That 15-20% in teraflops doen't justify a $100 cut at all. There's still there a cutting edge next gen Zen 2 and RDNA2 CPUs and GPUs, 16GB of DDR6 and a super fast SSD in addition to other stuff.

And what they may save on a few CUs is gonna be compensated on the price of that SSD beast. Fast SDDs aren't cheap, and since this one is a big step versus everything we have in the market it will be more expensive. And we also have to consider that we still don't know how the new DS5 will be, but we know that at least will have some new features like the haptic rumble, biofeedback sensor and these adaptative triggers, which means will be more expensive than the DS4.

I think that both will have similar price (probably $499), similar cost and will be sold at loss even at $499. And maybe even if they sell them at $599. This time in addition to a full priced game and maybe a service like PS+/Gold/PS Now/xCloud they may need each new console to buy a couple of these services and a couple of games to get 2 games to see a profit in a console.

You better hope Sony is not so far out gone with their reputation that they think gamers will pay the same msrp as Series X.
Looking at what happened with XBO X and Ps4 Pro, where the % of teraflops difference was more than the double than the one we'll see next gen, I think that PS5 will continue selling more than the double of units than Series X. Even at the same price, or even if higher. We saw in many generations of consoles that the most powerful one wasn't the best selling one.

Will you buy the best iPad Pro or the creeky Galaxy Tab? This is how things stand atm. MS engineering has been better next gen
Market share Android is way bigger than the one from Apple in both tablets and phones. In fact, Samsung alone more than doubles Apple's smartphone market. Same goes with Windows vs MacOs, or PlayStation vs Xbox.

Most people prefers -or only can afford- a cheaper tablet that does mostly the same than an iPad Pro even if it had worse specs (which isn't always the case, in many cases there are cheaper alternatives to Apple products with better specs).
 
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draliko

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you guys keep forgetting that even if ps5 has less CU they have higher freq so the yeld will be lower (high freq chip are quite hard to get, they have to be pristine) so in reality they're not saving any money on apus
 

magnumpy

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No way. That 15-20% in teraflops doen't justify a $100 cut at all. There's still there a cutting edge next gen Zen 2 and RDNA2 CPUs and GPUs, 16GB of DDR6 and a super fast SSD in addition to other stuff.

And what they may save on a few CUs is gonna be compensated on the price of that SSD beast. Fast SDDs aren't cheap, and since this one is a big step versus everything we have in the market it will be more expensive. And we also have to consider that we still don't know how the new DS5 will be, but we know that at least will have some new features like the haptic rumble, biofeedback sensor and these adaptative triggers, which means will be more expensive than the DS4.

I think that both will have similar price (probably $499), similar cost and will be sold at loss even at $499. And maybe even if they sell them at $599. This time in addition to a full priced game and maybe a service like PS+/Gold/PS Now/xCloud they may need each new console to buy a couple of these services and a couple of games to get 2 games to see a profit in a console.

I thought cost was ~confirmed to be around $450?

I suppose they can charge whatever they want to... :(
 
Nov 5, 2016
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No way. That 15-20% in teraflops doen't justify a $100 cut at all. There's still there a cutting edge next gen Zen 2 and RDNA2 CPUs and GPUs, 16GB of DDR6 and a super fast SSD in addition to other stuff.

And what they may save on a few CUs is gonna be compensated on the price of that SSD beast. Fast SDDs aren't cheap, and since this one is a big step versus everything we have in the market it will be more expensive. And we also have to consider that we still don't know how the new DS5 will be, but we know that at least will have some new features like the haptic rumble, biofeedback sensor and these adaptative triggers, which means will be more expensive than the DS4.

I think that both will have similar price (probably $499), similar cost and will be sold at loss even at $499. And maybe even if they sell them at $599. This time in addition to a full priced game and maybe a service like PS+/Gold/PS Now/xCloud they may need each new console to buy a couple of these services and a couple of games to get 2 games to see a profit in a console.


Looking at what happened with XBO X and Ps4 Pro, where the % of teraflops difference was more than the double than the one we'll see next gen, I think that PS5 will continue selling more than the double of units than Series X. Even at the same price, or even if higher. We saw in many generations of consoles that the most powerful one wasn't the best selling one.


Market share Android is way bigger than the one from Apple in both tablets and phones. In fact, Samsung alone more than doubles Apple's smartphone market. Same goes with Windows vs MacOs, or PlayStation vs Xbox.

Most people prefers -or only can afford- a cheaper tablet that does mostly the same than an iPad Pro even if it had worse specs (which isn't always the case, in many cases there are cheaper alternatives to Apple products with better specs).
I gotta disagree. I think PS5 comes in at 449 or lower and XsX at 499 or higher
 
Jan 29, 2019
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If the zen2 cpu is way more powerful than the Jaguar, won't it be a long time until games need to use it 100%? Leaving it underclocked most of the time for max GPU usage?
Specifically considering all the custom hardware the console has for sound processing and data decompression, freeing the Cpu from these tasks.
This is not what was said, it should be able to hold its top speed most of the times... at least as needed, most games use the CPU in burst anyway. On the PS5 the CPU is freed from background tasks by a side CPU that has its own pool of RAM, same for SSD transfers and sound mixing/effects, etc.

However with what we know so far, you would be crazy to think that the xsx doesn't have an advantage, especially for existing games, games that will be released early. That 3.8ghz mode with SMT disabled could make the difference.... the thing is they aren't that stressful on the GPU, so beyond adding more raytracing, a few more effects there will not be much improvements over the X... obviously frame rate will be better/more stable, but they will be much like remastered games we had this gen.

I wonder will happen when a game that requires data heavy transfers? Like the GPU, will the difference(s) even be notable?
 

Johnglen

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Shorter and true version .....ps5 a 9 TF console with a 3 GHz CPU, you are welcome.
 
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Jan 29, 2019
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Yup. And even more parallels.

MS promoted 32 mb of Esram at ultra sick sick speed vs. PS4's 8gb of GDDR5 ram. As if the ESram was going to catch everything up 100% of the time. Didn't MS even combine the bandwidths at one point showing trying to make it look like their DDR3+ESram was better than PS4's raw GDDR?

Never came close. Reminds me of Sony now trying to pitch SSD high gb/s like it's better
That last sentence is where you lost me, the SSD portion of the system is used to feed the RAM (textures, models, etc.) in real time. Let's say you turn around in a large scene)... it it's half as fast it will show, assuming the scene has what we consider at this point A LOT OF DATA, if you don't feed the memory fast enough you will either have to move slower, or have less details (smaller resolution textures), or pop-ins.... before you laugh, this is the same thing as GPU's computing power (TFs), most of the time the GPU is not maxed out, when you have two GPUs that are functionally the same, but one is 20% slower, well you enable dynamic resolution and they run the games at pretty much the same resolution the vast majority of the time, except when there is tons of action on the screen, which is again an extreme case.

This is why comparisons may be interesting again.
Shorter and true version .....ps5 a 9 TF console with a 3 GHz CPU, you are welcome.
You may be right, somewhat, but the verdict is not out yet... but whatever suits you.